IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #23

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I think they cannot clear JW because his alibi was I was sleeping. Since no one was technically staring at him sleeping all night that cannot be corroborated. Unfortunate because it would be nice to eliminate him from the picture completely. I do think he probably knew at least a little about what was going on. I have never believed that the entire night passed with tons of people seeing Lauren and CR and the altercation and not a single one of them shot a text to him about any of it.

JW is really ridiculously low on my suspicion list, but there is always the nagging feeling for me that his role cannot be discounted completely.
 
Carmen your post about ZO got me thinking about a tweet AB made after the 500 weekend. He referred to two guy friends who were in a fight. One was still in the hospital at the time of this tweet. Of course AB made it sound like like it was no big deal.

Point being...the perps may be these very guy friends or some guys like this whom they know, possibly from Indy since ZO and AB are from there.

I brought this up once before quite a while ago. ZO threw the punch, his buds fight hard enough to stay in the hospital for days. If these episodes of anger and violence are due to drugs or women then I wouldn't put a crime of hiding a body past them.
 
MB - he was sober, prob did nothing and will lose his sh** soon enough if he has no involvement.

...if pressure is PUT on him. We hear very little about MB. It's true, there has to be a weak link. Never thought about it from the angle of working the person who has little involvement, at least that we know of to date. But who will do it? LE has has little to no mention of MB, but I would think that he would be very significant as he would hold more info than CR who was knocked out and passed out. I like this angle.
 
Also, the ending of the clip made me think about potential charges, even if LS died accidentally. CR, for instance, is 21 and could be charged with illegally providing alcohol, perhaps a contributing factor in her death. That may make his memory loss convenient.

No one is bringing any charges against the bar; therefore, she may not have been served an alcoholic drink. Her non-alcoholic drink may have been spiked, or she may have taken a sip of CR's drink.
 
No one is bringing any charges against the bar; therefore, she may not have been served an alcoholic drink. Her non-alcoholic drink may have been spiked, or she may have taken a sip of CR's drink.

Sorry, but I find it very hard to believe that any underage college girl is going to the bar to drink a non-alcoholic drink, but ...how do you know no one is bringing any charges against the bar? I think it's far too premature to even guess that yet. Without a body, or BOC we have no proof that she had any alcohol, but if we do, and there are witness to verify what she had, it's still possible. They surely have her on video.

In all due respect, Walker, it seems like in every one of your posts lately, you're talking about her drink being spiked and/or them getting robbed. Can you please share what brings you to consider that? I mean, I wouldn't rule anything out right now as an option, but it just seems farfetched to me, so I'm curious. Thanks.
 
Carmen your post about ZO got me thinking about a tweet AB made after the 500 weekend. He referred to two guy friends who were in a fight. One was still in the hospital at the time of this tweet. Of course AB made it sound like like it was no big deal.

Point being...the perps may be these very guy friends or some guys like this whom they know, possibly from Indy since ZO and AB are from there.

I brought this up once before quite a while ago. ZO threw the punch, his buds fight hard enough to stay in the hospital for days. If these episodes of anger and violence are due to drugs or women then I wouldn't put a crime of hiding a body past them.

If they have that much violence caught up in side them, then I guess I wouldn't put other crimes past them either (like perhaps rape or murder?).
 
I get frustrated with the "kids" thing because so many of the murderers and criminals we see on this board are 21 or younger and I don't see anyone referring to them as "kids"...Casey was 22 when she allegedly killed Caylee and she was certainly never considered a "kid" by anyone and she is just one high-profile example. I've seen plenty of 18-year olds charged as adults and most of WS agreeing that they should be...so it does bother me that this rich, white group of people seem to slip under the "adult" label...JMO

I don't see it as a racial issue. Media spin often turns criminals into "kids," or "youngsters," when governmental interests are threatened.

In France and UK, all rioters are referred to by the code word "youths," even though their actual ages are often over 30. The media spins that the problem is not riots caused by poor government policy and planning, but rather just a bit of (temporary) teen high-jinks.

Here, too, the colleges are big money, and the government both funds these institutions and profits from the student loans. What would happen if word got around that parents are borrowing 10's of thousands of dollars just so that their sons and daughters could get hooked on heroin, or be victimized by some vicious drug gang? No, the "kids" were just "partying" and "things went too far" ... Sure.
 
Who do you think the weakest link would be? I'm really interested in hearing some thoughts on this.

I would expect HT to say that she suspects LS od'd. If asked why she thinks such she would likely say that is what she has heard and believes to be true. If asked whether she heard such from any of the POI's on the night of 6-3 she would have to lie or else give up the one who knows where LS is located imo.
HT has over-stated her case with comments such as "and I believe him" when recounting JR's supposed last sighting of LS and "it just went too far this time" when describing LS's activities on 6-3. I interpret these comments to mean JR's story was probably manufactured (with help from HT) and HT believes she knows what happened to LS.
If my theory is correct then HT believes that LS was removed from the area because of an o.d.
HT will not give up a supplier or a boyfriend and she is therefore not the weakest link imo.
 
Sorry, but I find it very hard to believe that any underage college girl is going to the bar to drink a non-alcoholic drink, but ...

She may have scared of getting caught; she had been caught by the police before. She didn't go to the bar to get booze; she went (we assume) to enjoy the companionship of her friend.


how do you know no one is bringing any charges against the bar?

The police could probably determine whether LS was served an alcoholic drink or not. They likely have camera evidence, the testimony of the bar tender, other bar personnel and CR. Depends on the set-up of the bar, maybe the receipt.


I think it's far too premature to even guess that yet.

They can lose their license or be sued in a civil court just for serving a minor, but no discussion of this possibility has turned up as of yet.


Without a body, or BOC we have no proof that she had any alcohol, but if we do, and there are witness to verify what she had, it's still possible. They surely have her on video.

I agree. They likely have some type of video images from the bar.


In all due respect, Walker, it seems like in every one of your posts lately, you're talking about her drink being spiked and/or them getting robbed. Can you please share what brings you to consider that? I mean, I wouldn't rule anything out right now as an option, but it just seems farfetched to me, so I'm curious. Thanks.

That's one of my current theories.

CR loses his memory, when? After leaving the bar. Since he is a large guy, who probably has a high enough alcohol tolerance, how does 45 minutes in a bar send him to oblivion?

LS has a heart condition, and also was once caught for being drunk by the police. She has very good reason to avoid getting totally drunk in public. Despite the mountains of gossip regarding this case, no one has described her as a drug addict or an alcoholic or someone who binges habitually. Like in Sherlock Holmes, the important clue was that the dogs did not bark.

Both students are repeatedly referred to as "rich." An element of jealousy and hostility is obvious. LS wore several pieces of expensive jewelry. Maybe CR was carrying cash. Criminals then may have decided to target them for robbery.

One way to rob someone is to spike their drinks, which unfortunately is also very common in the college environment. Both students seemed to be similarly impaired after they left the bar.

Also, the searchers were told to look for LS's jewelry. Therefore, maybe something was missing. Early on it was stated that it could not be determined if LS had her prescription with her at the time of her disappearance. When was the purse thrown in the alley, and why?


In another post I described how the background emotion seems to be fear. They fled the bar to Smallwood quickly, then from Smallwood to 5 North. LS was losing necessary belongings along the way suggesting urgency. MB protectiveness toward CR also suggests a dangerous situation. MB staying up all night suggests vigilance. LS's party question might more likely have been intended to mean "do you need to take something to stay awake?" rather than an invitation to take a drug as recreation. LS may have then gone to JR's because all thought it was safer for her in case of another confrontation. LS/JR may have called DR @4:15 am to find out what was going on: the timing of the call suggests urgency. LS could have left (if she left) in fear. Someone could have been watching, and picked her up in a vehicle on College Avenue.

Could be gang retaliation against LS because of her association with someone or some group who is suspected of informing on them and thereby causing a drug bust. Or it could be something else related to that possibility.

In this scenario, the other students may not know who is responsible; or they may have some idea, but they are terrified that the gang might attack their loved ones back home.


Of course, none of these considerations proves anything, but at this point, we don't have proof of any of the other theories either.
 
Who do you think the weakest link would be? I'm really interested in hearing some thoughts on this.

The weakest link imo is AB. He appears to me to be HT's errand boy, JR's pal, ZO's side-kick, and the one who likely got caught up in something he wished he hadn't.
HT is keeping close tabs on AB for a reason and trying to do so under the radar. She may be worried about what he might say if cornered by LE.
 
I've been looking into what all criteria goes into being a SPEA major in management. If JR graduates with this degree, then we are all in trouble because where ever he goes, he will have the power to be a leader of men and women. I hope his past follows him, and that people demand that his background be throughtly checked before he gets a high ranking job.
 
I believe there are 3 working theories to this case and check me if I'm wrong.

1 - the JR/CR/MB drug theory. I think that's on top of everyone's list.

Then there's the other side - 2 - the JW, ZO, AB jealousy theory. I can't get away from the boyfriend, sorry for my obsession. I just can't think this guy stood back and slept through this as his girlfriend stumbled around the campus with another guy/guys in a very bad condition.

Then there's the white truck guys theory - 3 - which I would like to connect to one of the above 2 theories and if I think about it, the #1 group, the timing that JR said LS left, the phone call and the uncanny coincidence of a white truck in the SAME area, without, and then with something or someone in the bed of the truck. If we knew anything about the white truck guys we could possibly make the connection. Unfortunately LE dismissed them rather fast, probably too fast and me thinks they should bring them back in and connect all the dots.

There's a big something missing and that is the vehicle that took Lauren out of that town. Narrow down the usuals - how many vehicles were sitting in Lauren's path at the same time Lauren would be passing and WHY? Is there a video showing the supposed worker getting dropped off and getting in the white truck? Where did he come from? Another vehicle? No mention that the worker they were waiting for showed up and they left? Did he walk? Did he see anything?

Am I crazy for thinking the dumbest thing in the world was to let the white truck thing go so early on in this case? If LE can't find a connection between the occupants of the white truck and 5 North, GET THE CELL PHONE RECORDS OF ALL OF THEM. There were obviously more than 2 because it appears one had to ride in back. Go through those cameras again. When did the objects appear in the bed of the truck? Where did they come from? Did they drop from the sky? What happened to this truck apparently "blowing a red light" then "not blowing the red light" and circling the block, then not circling the block.

The white truck is the key to where Lauren is, IMO. There's a connection to one of these groups. Am I the only one that thinks the white truck needs to be brought back in?

Its no coincidence that it was there at the time it was there. For all we know DR could have been in that truck and the reason for the phone call.

Sorry for beating a dead horse. I just don't think the horse is dead.
 
I believe there are 3 working theories to this case and check me if I'm wrong.

1 - the JR/CR/MB drug theory. I think that's on top of everyone's list.

Then there's the other side - 2 - the JW, ZO, AB jealousy theory. I can't get away from the boyfriend, sorry for my obsession. I just can't think this guy stood back and slept through this as his girlfriend stumbled around the campus with another guy/guys in a very bad condition.

Then there's the white truck guys theory - 3 - which I would like to connect to one of the above 2 theories and if I think about it, the #1 group, the timing that JR said LS left, the phone call and the uncanny coincidence of a white truck in the SAME area, without, and then with something or someone in the bed of the truck. If we knew anything about the white truck guys we could possibly make the connection. Unfortunately LE dismissed them rather fast, probably too fast and me thinks they should bring them back in and connect all the dots.

There's a big something missing and that is the vehicle that took Lauren out of that town. Narrow down the usuals - how many vehicles were sitting in Lauren's path at the same time Lauren would be passing and WHY? Is there a video showing the supposed worker getting dropped off and getting in the white truck? Where did he come from? Another vehicle? No mention that the worker they were waiting for showed up and they left? Did he walk? Did he see anything?

Am I crazy for thinking the dumbest thing in the world was to let the white truck thing go so early on in this case? If LE can't find a connection between the occupants of the white truck and 5 North, GET THE CELL PHONE RECORDS OF ALL OF THEM. There were obviously more than 2 because it appears one had to ride in back. Go through those cameras again. When did the objects appear in the bed of the truck? Where did they come from? Did they drop from the sky? What happened to this truck apparently "blowing a red light" then "not blowing the red light" and circling the block, then not circling the block.

The white truck is the key to where Lauren is, IMO. There's a connection to one of these groups. Am I the only one that thinks the white truck needs to be brought back in?

Its no coincidence that it was there at the time it was there. For all we know DR could have been in that truck and the reason for the phone call.

Sorry for beating a dead horse. I just don't think the horse is dead.

The horse ain't dead YET. It's not only the white truck, LE has the ability to view hours of videos. Within those would be other vehicles parked, did ANY of those move during the time in question?
 
I've been looking into what all criteria goes into being a SPEA major in management. If JR graduates with this degree, then we are all in trouble because where ever he goes, he will have the power to be a leader of men and women. I hope his past follows him, and that people demand that his background be throughtly checked before he gets a high ranking job.

He's got Daddy's cash and clout and I don't think he'll be needing any background checks if he comes from that kind of money. Getting his degree was a formality. He could get a degree in Phy Ed and it wouldn't matter. His career path is likely carved out for him already. He's probably got a 6 figure job lined up the minute he graduates. I know that car he's driving is just shy of 6 figures. Hopefully we won't have to worry about where he goes because from the looks of it, the DEA is combing Bton.
 
I believe there are 3 working theories to this case and check me if I'm wrong.

1 - the JR/CR/MB drug theory. I think that's on top of everyone's list.

Then there's the other side - 2 - the JW, ZO, AB jealousy theory. I can't get away from the boyfriend, sorry for my obsession. I just can't think this guy stood back and slept through this as his girlfriend stumbled around the campus with another guy/guys in a very bad condition.

Then there's the white truck guys theory - 3 - which I would like to connect to one of the above 2 theories and if I think about it, the #1 group, the timing that JR said LS left, the phone call and the uncanny coincidence of a white truck in the SAME area, without, and then with something or someone in the bed of the truck. If we knew anything about the white truck guys we could possibly make the connection. Unfortunately LE dismissed them rather fast, probably too fast and me thinks they should bring them back in and connect all the dots.

There's a big something missing and that is the vehicle that took Lauren out of that town. Narrow down the usuals - how many vehicles were sitting in Lauren's path at the same time Lauren would be passing and WHY? Is there a video showing the supposed worker getting dropped off and getting in the white truck? Where did he come from? Another vehicle? No mention that the worker they were waiting for showed up and they left? Did he walk? Did he see anything?

Am I crazy for thinking the dumbest thing in the world was to let the white truck thing go so early on in this case? If LE can't find a connection between the occupants of the white truck and 5 North, GET THE CELL PHONE RECORDS OF ALL OF THEM. There were obviously more than 2 because it appears one had to ride in back. Go through those cameras again. When did the objects appear in the bed of the truck? Where did they come from? Did they drop from the sky? What happened to this truck apparently "blowing a red light" then "not blowing the red light" and circling the block, then not circling the block.

The white truck is the key to where Lauren is, IMO. There's a connection to one of these groups. Am I the only one that thinks the white truck needs to be brought back in?

Its no coincidence that it was there at the time it was there. For all we know DR could have been in that truck and the reason for the phone call.

Sorry for beating a dead horse. I just don't think the horse is dead.

Ive been following this case from the beginning and even though i dont have links handy, i have to state that the white truck was cleared early on; the story was corroborated by both the person who was being picked up for work by the driver AND by the driver's employer. IIRC the stuff in the bed of the truck were paint cans partially covered by a tarp.
 
The horse ain't dead YET. It's not only the white truck, LE has the ability to view hours of videos. Within those would be other vehicles parked, did ANY of those move during the time in question?

I think they need to re-check the Smallwood tapes too. Did DR leave the building at anytime around the time the white truck would have been nearby? Smallwood was so protective of their tapes. There's a reason that call was made to DR at that time. I think it was a "don't answer if everything is ok" and you can claim you were sleeping type deal. There has to be a connection between the white truck and one of these guys. I'm sure LE has combed through thousands of cell phone logs. Why is this case so hard to prove? Maybe it's not. I hope they are throwing the POIs off by dismissing the white truck but in reality it's still in this case. Then again, they have not searched beyond Bton and surrounding towns. The truck was headed to Indy. I don't think she's in Bton anymore. She would have been found. Too many cameras and I don't see any other car in question that seemed to be an object of interest of any videotape.
 
Ive been following this case from the beginning and even though i dont have links handy, i have to state that the white truck was cleared early on; the story was corroborated by both the person who was being picked up for work by the driver AND by the driver's employer. IIRC the stuff in the bed of the truck were paint cans partially covered by a tarp.

I'm fully aware that LE dismisssed the white truck, occupants, etc. I don't think it was right so early on in the case.

If what you say is true, then there must be a video showing the paint cans being loaded because the truck bed was either empty or covered by a snap down tarp. That tarp was partially removed to put something in the bed. I would imagine that would be on a video somewhere, right? People out of the car loading things in? I don't necessarily buy everything that LE says nor have 100% faith that they didn't miss something.
 
Re serving alcohol to a minor -

Like Illinois, Indiana has a Dram Shop Act. The Spierers can file a civil suit against the bar for serving a minor, if in fact she was served at Killroys. For that matter, the Spierers can file a civil suit against a few of the POIs for the drugs too. Discovery is far more broad in a civil suit and maybe it would put some pressure on the weakest link. Usually, a civil suit isn't filed until the suspect is identified. I see this case as a whole lot of people doing a whole lot of bad things and IMO, Lauren didn't have her own stash of whatever she had that night. Maybe a civil suit is premature here, but then again, maybe not.
 
I'm fully aware that LE dismisssed the white truck, occupants, etc. I don't think it was right so early on in the case.

If what you say is true, then there must be a video showing the paint cans being loaded because the truck bed was either empty or covered by a snap down tarp. That tarp was partially removed to put something in the bed. I would imagine that would be on a video somewhere, right? People out of the car loading things in? I don't necessarily buy everything that LE says nor have 100% faith that they didn't miss something.

It would be very discouraging, not to mention incompetent, if the ONLY thing/person LE HAS fully cleared,the white truck scenario, was a mistake. Im thinking there has to be a solid reason that it IS the only scenario cleared...It is very possible that LE had SAR/HRD dogs sniff it out in addition to the statements of occupants/employer. If JR was the last known person to see LS at 4:30am, and the employer stated the driver was at the job when he was supposed to be that morning after picking up the passenger, then i find there would be little time to abduct, murder and dispose of the body...
I think im gonna have to do some search for links about this later...I need to clear the truck in my own mind(again)for sure...

...*Groan* thats 23 threads to look thru and sadly i have to go to work
 
It would be very discouraging, not to mention incompetent, if the ONLY thing/person LE HAS fully cleared,the white truck scenario, was a mistake. Im thinking there has to be a solid reason that it IS the only scenario cleared...It is very possible that LE had SAR/HRD dogs sniff it out in addition to the statements of occupants/employer. If JR was the last known person to see LS at 4:30am, and the employer stated the driver was at the job when he was supposed to be that morning after picking up the passenger, then i find there would be little time to abduct, murder and dispose of the body...
I think im gonna have to do some search for links about this later...I need to clear the truck in my own mind(again)for sure...

I never said anything about the white truck occupants murdering or abducting anyone. I'm simply noting that Lauren left the area somehow. The white truck being in the area at the same time she would have been is too coincidental. It doesn't take but seconds to load a person in the back (or inside the cab) of a truck. You hear of kids being grabbed and poof gone in seconds. Why are you so defensive of the white truck? I've seen the links, I've seen the press conferences. I'm fully aware of everything that LE has said about the white truck.

That's not to say that I believe everything is true. We are all imperfect. Even LE makes mistakes. No need to search for links. I know they're there and what they contain.
 
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