IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #26

[Jupiter812]

The incident I posted above was an IU email ALERT. This goes to all students. "She reported that he ran southwest from the scene. She also said she observed a second male subject running away from the scene as well. Officers checked the area but were unable to locate any suspects."

Sounds like it could very well be the same guys.

And another similar incident happened 5 days later. No one was robbed, hurt or abducted. Another ALERT went out.

Sounds to me like a wave of related activity. Did Jacobite or anyone else report what they observed? They should have. It is suspicious but no crime occurred and you'd be hard pressed to even say that an attempted crime occurred.

 

[Jupiter812]

Oh, I have little doubt that Bloomington LE did not take Lauren's case seriously enough and I've expressed that on more than one occasion.

I don't know what, if any, standards exist in LE in general for reporting incidents but doesn't every call make it into the POLICE BEAT? I don't believe every incident should be a media piece. There has to be discernment about what is important and what isn't. This incident below is the other one I was thinking about. It happened several days after Jacobite's incident. A man creeping out some young women. This was published and went out on ALERT. And parents were even in town during this timeframe. I thought it was a bit overboard but understood it was a teachable moment early in the semester. http://bloomington.livejournal.com/

"On 08/28/11, at approximately 12:44 a.m., two female students reported that they were walking westbound in the area of E. Atwater Avenue and S. Fess. The females reported they saw a male standing in the area. They stated that the male "made them feel uncomfortable".

 

[epiphany]

Let's start with Long QT Syndrome. It is not a heart defect as many have been led to believe in this story. it is a neurological problem related to epilepsy. People with this disability have been given a PI or DUI after only one drink. Alcohol makes them very uncoordinated even though their thinking may still be clear. So, Lauren may have been stumbling but quite able to use a cellphone. Her mind may have been functioning much better than we have been led to believe. Heart problems caused by Long QT are controlled with beta blockers. You can get beta blockers at a local nutrition store. No prescription required. This girl could very well still be alive and held by her abductor.
As far as no video proof of her leaving 5 N Townhomes. There is also no video proof of her going there. The POI's statements to BPD are all that place her at that location.
Lauren and Corey arrive at her apartment in the early hours of June 3. The story goes, they are ambushed on the 5th Floor. CR is knocked down and kicked in the head. Lauren is angry and does not enter her apartment. The guy who attacked CR is a friend of her roommate. So, she walks CR home instead of going home herself. I wonder if she stayed at Jay Rosenbaum's till 4:30 AM because she may have been afraid she could be ambushed herself and wanted to wait them out. This may also explain why she didn't use the path she normally took which passed by 10th & College Apartments where they lived. The NE corner of 10th and College Apartments would be an excellent place to stand out of camera view and watch a girl leaving 5 N Townhomes. You would be able to see which direction she took and go grab her. And, I wouldn't know all this except for I went to Bloomington myself on August 23, 2011. Two men and a blond were in the alley near sundown. The blond got ahead of us in the alley and a middle-eastern man came running after her. When he saw 2 men, he ran to a getaway car and sped away.
He came from 10th and College Apartments. So, I bet it's an abduction. But, it's not a random abduction because you really had to know that block in order to avoid the cameras. By the way, I also suspect Lauren dropped her keys during the kidnapping because you have your keys in hand on the way home, not on the way to visiting. Oh,
Weren't her keys put on the rail of 10th and College Apartments?

Respectfully, BBM

Can you back this statement with a link? TIA

 

[akh]

Not every call makes it in Police Beat.

 

[Ros]

Other than Lauren, I know of no other unsolved case of a missing person in the last quarter century in Btown.

Have either of these missing person cases been solved?

Frank Joseph Giza
http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=10467.0

Kate McGrayel (from Nashville, IN but worked with Campus Crusade for Christ in Bloomington)
http://www.browncountyindiana.com/index.php?id=6396

Also, it depends on what you mean by "solved." If by "solved" you mean finding the person or the person's remains, then the Crystal Grubb case is solved. But if it means making an arrest, then I think that case would be considered unsolved unless an arrest has been made recently.

And then there's Margaret Hayes who has been missing from Bloomington for more than a quarter of a century.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hayes_margaret.html

 

[Jupiter812]

Abbey, I forgot all about that crime you posted. Must be because I never knew about it in the first place (could also be my memory :waitasec. I did realize there was an accomplice but I waved it off for some reason--something I read. I don't have a subscription to HTO either. I just searched the site and didn't see the first few lines of an article. I'll try to look into this further.

In response to the incident of the women walking on Atwater, IU police sent an extended message about safety to everyone and outlined three different levels of communication it sends based on the seriousness of the incident. You can read that behind the link if you're interested. That might answer your question about whether they would inform the community about an abduction. I think yes, they would. The city police, maybe less so.

 

[Jupiter812]

Have either of these missing person cases been solved?

Frank Joseph Giza
http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=10467.0

Kate McGrayel (from Nashville, IN but worked with Campus Crusade for Christ in Bloomington)
http://www.browncountyindiana.com/index.php?id=6396

Also, it depends on what you mean by "solved." If by "solved" you mean finding the person or the person's remains, then the Crystal Grubb case is solved. But if it means making an arrest, then I think that case would be considered unsolved unless an arrest has been made recently.

And then there's Margaret Hayes who has been missing from Bloomington for more than a quarter of a century.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hayes_margaret.html

Giza was not from Btown and there is no evidence that he was taken from Btown.

Kate McGrayel is not from Btown--I know nothing about this case.

Crystal Grubb was found--not a missing person's case.

The last one does apply and that is precisely my point: It's been more than 25 years since a person went missing from Btown and has not been found.

 

[bx2]

I don't even understand the story. Clearly the blonde didn't go missing because there is no way the University could cover that up. Somebody saw a man running? And a blonde was there? I am very confused as to what exactly is even alleged to have happened.

This same story of an attempted abduction in the N/S alley was told in the comments section of one of the LS articles back then. I'll give it a go tomorrow to try and find it, but I'm of the opinion it is incredibly dubious.

 

[bx2]

This same story of an attempted abduction in the N/S alley was told in the comments section of one of the LS articles back then. I'll give it a go tomorrow to try and find it, but I'm of the opinion it is incredibly dubious.

Found the comment I was remembering: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20102172-504083.html. Looks like its probably the same person posting the account here, but might help clear up the confusion in what they are trying to say.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

RE: Jacobite's comment: This information comes from a pediatric cardiologist, who says:
"Long QT IS a heart defect. It's an inherited arrhythmia-producing defect. Unless the meds she was on interacted w/the alcohol there's no reason to think she'd have any different response to alcohol than anyone else. And also, you cannot purchase a beta blocker over the counter - you need a prescription.
And, Long QT and epilepsy have nothing to do with each other. they are 2 different things."

Thank you!!! Was just coming to post this. And I take a beta-blocker btw.

Or Jacobite, please explain what you mean about epilepsy and Long QT as a neuro defect. eTA, I realize that epilepsy and LQT are both channelopathies and that HR and BP are controlled by the autonomic nervous system.

 

[Jupiter812]

Found the comment I was remembering: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20102172-504083.html. Looks like its probably the same person posting the account here, but might help clear up the confusion in what they are trying to say.

Oh, wow. N/S alley. If I understand correctly, then it's even more improbable. That would be the same segment of Lauren's and CR's walk where they are seen on video by two different cameras.

 

[Jacobite]

Thank you!!! Was just coming to post this. And I take a beta-blocker btw.

Or Jacobite, please explain what you mean about epilepsy and Long QT as a neuro defect. eTA, I realize that epilepsy and LQT are both channelopathies and that HR and BP are controlled by the autonomic nervous system.

Hi Jane,
I thought I'd study Long QT since Lauren had this syndrome. Long QT is often misdiagnosed as epilepsy. Some new research suggests Long QT may even be a form of epilepsy. Both of them can cause seizures and Long QT can cause heart failure.
We in the media did not adequately study Long QT when we reported on Lauren's condition that night. Her mind may have been much sharper than we gave credit for. And, yes it is neurology. If a Long QT patient receives a new heart she will still have Long QT because the problem is caused by wrong signals to the heart. Many have speculated that Lauren couldn't still be alive without her prescription. So, I looked up beta blockers and found there are natural beta blockers that you can buy without a prescription. So, there still is hope that this girl may be alive.

 

[Jacobite]

Found the comment I was remembering: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20102172-504083.html. Looks like its probably the same person posting the account here, but might help clear up the confusion in what they are trying to say.

The BPD and the FBI have the same account. The story has not changed.

 

[Jacobite]

Oh, wow. N/S alley. If I understand correctly, then it's even more improbable. That would be the same segment of Lauren's and CR's walk where they are seen on video by two different cameras.

The camera that caught Lauren exiting the alley is actually shooting above
your head at the point I am writing about. In September, I returned to Bloomington with engineers to determine if one could abduct a girl on College Avenue and avoid the cameras. The answer is yes. But, you would likely have to live in the area to know how. Also, I was told the alley cams keep video for 30 days. There are also cams at 5 N Townhomes. Guess no one got the video from them before it was overwritten. Important answers were lost.

 

[jjenny]

The camera that caught Lauren exiting the alley is actually shooting above
your head at the point I am writing about. In September, I returned to Bloomington with engineers to determine if one could abduct a girl on College Avenue and avoid the cameras. The answer is yes. But, you would likely have to live in the area to know how. Also, I was told the alley cams keep video for 30 days. There are also cams at 5 N Townhomes. Guess no one got the video from them before it was overwritten. Important answers were lost.

This is the first time I hear a claim about cameras at 5N Townhomes. I find it very hard to believe that these cameras are there and that no one bothered to get video off them.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Hi Jane,
I thought I'd study Long QT since Lauren had this syndrome. Long QT is often misdiagnosed as epilepsy. Some new research suggests Long QT may even be a form of epilepsy. Both of them can cause seizures and Long QT can cause heart failure.
We in the media did not adequately study Long QT when we reported on Lauren's condition that night. Her mind may have been much sharper than we gave credit for. And, yes it is neurology. If a Long QT patient receives a new heart she will still have Long QT because the problem is caused by wrong signals to the heart. Many have speculated that Lauren couldn't still be alive without her prescription. So, I looked up beta blockers and found there are natural beta blockers that you can buy without a prescription. So, there still is hope that this girl may be alive.

Hmm, not convinced, but cardio isn't my field. I think I know the paper you might have in mind tho.

Eta: re: natural or OTC b-blockers, because this is actually something that I looked into quite a bit a few yrs ago, not as a professional but just as someone scouting out the best meds. Are you talking stuff like chamomile, passionflower, Hawthorne berry?

Sorry if I sound rude or abrupt. It is not intended. I am a neuroscientist (researcher), and I am always willing to learn.

 

[akh]

Also, I was told the alley cams keep video for 30 days. There are also cams at 5 N Townhomes. Guess no one got the video from them before it was overwritten. Important answers were lost.

If this is true why hasn't anyone in the media done an expose' on the apparent mishandling of the case? #1 to present that evidence like this was available and went unused, and #2 try and get the reason for that from the powers that be.

 

[AbbeyR]

From Jacobite's comment:

The media is now leading us to believe she had a cocaine OD there and he didn't dial 911. But, why not call 911? EMS is interested in saving lives not drug busts. He could have flushed the coke if this was true and had nothing to worry about.

I've been thinking about this same question over the last few days, because of a local news story.

Last week in my city, the body of a woman was found rolled in a carpet and dumped in an alley. It was assumed to be a homicide, and when the identity of the victim was revealed, friends and neighbours expressed total shock that something like this could happen - She was, by all accounts, a popular, well-liked 30-year old, who seemed to have a circle of normal, caring, friends and family.

A few days later, police announced that it wasn't a homicide, but that they are still investigating the 'suspicious' circumstances of her death. It was quietly indicated that it was a drug overdose, and now there is speculation that friends or roommates may have panicked and dumped her body. If true, why would they do this? Who knows... Maybe whoever she was with had something to hide, or feared prosecution for drugs or something else. Or maybe the combination of being under the influence of drugs and a really stressful situation led to paranoia, irrational thinking, exceptionally bad decisions or some combination of the above...

It's hard to know, and since the media and public dropped the story as soon as drugs were mentioned, who knows if it will ever come out. But, we've heard this kind of story before, and here's one more indication that things like this can happen, even though it seems totally crazy. I feel so terrible for this girl and her family... no one should be treated with such indifference and disrespect

 

[RTC]

Do we know for a fact that LS put her keys and purse on the railing before continuing in the direction of 5 north? Do they have that proof on the undisclosed video of LS and mystery person?

JR said LS used his phone to call DR looking for her cell? But what about her keys and purse, wouldnt that be of a more immediate concern? What did JR say about her keys and purse? Did she have them? What did MB say about what LS was carrying when she arrived with CR?

 

[Darcyline]

Cameras were put up at the Townhomes AFTER Lauren went missing. There were no cameras that night.
There are many, many cases of people ODing and then friends ditching the body instead of dialing 911. There are cases of people being arrested, prosecuted, and sent to jail just for having a friend OD in their home. We also don't know what else went down-maybe one of them gave her drugs. Maybe one of them slipped her the date rape drug. Maybe they had sex and were afraid of rape charges too.
For these reasons and considering all unknown variables I cannot rule out an accidental OD of some sort. I will say that I do think a significant unknown variable is there if it was an accidental OD.

I am still open to multiple scenarios of course. OD of some sort is just one of them that I haven't personally found good reason to rule out completely.