IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #26

[Esther]

Hi Jane,
I thought I'd study Long QT since Lauren had this syndrome. Long QT is often misdiagnosed as epilepsy. Some new research suggests Long QT may even be a form of epilepsy. Both of them can cause seizures and Long QT can cause heart failure.
We in the media did not adequately study Long QT when we reported on Lauren's condition that night. Her mind may have been much sharper than we gave credit for. And, yes it is neurology. If a Long QT patient receives a new heart she will still have Long QT because the problem is caused by wrong signals to the heart. Many have speculated that Lauren couldn't still be alive without her prescription. So, I looked up beta blockers and found there are natural beta blockers that you can buy without a prescription. So, there still is hope that this girl may be alive.

JACOBITE -I am sitting here next to a PEDIATRIC CARDIOLOGIST WHO DISPUTES NEARLY EVERY WORD YOU SAY.
1. Long QT is only occasionally misdiagnosed as epilepsy.2. Long QT is NOT a form of epilepsy. The Pediatric cardiologist says, show him the research and he'll be happy to read it. 3. Long QT doesn't ever cause heart failure. Someone who is having a cardiac arrest can have a secondary seizure due to lack of oxygen delivery to the brain. It is not a primary seizure, as in epilepsy. 4. If you get a new heart your Long QT is cured. 5. The problem is caused by the cells in the heart and their regulation of potassium, calcium and sodium. It's not neurologic - it's cardiac. The only connection between Long QT and seizures is that a patient having a cardiac arrest for any reason can have a seizure, as mentioned earlier, due to lack of oxygen. 6. As for Beta Blockers, people can live fortuitously without medication. A BB can help or not help. Any BB bought over the counter would be so weak it wouldn't matter.

This is the 2nd time I've had to enlist this pediatric cardiologist to dispute false medical information you've stated here. I would appreciate it if you would stop doing this. I gather you are captivated by this case, as we all obviously are. But false speculation doesn't help anyone understand what truly happened to Lauren.

 

[Darcyline]

Do we know for a fact that LS put her keys and purse on the railing before continuing in the direction of 5 north? Do they have that proof on the undisclosed video of LS and mystery person?

JR said LS used his phone to call DR looking for her cell? But what about her keys and purse, wouldnt that be of a more immediate concern? What did JR say about her keys and purse? Did she have them? What did MB say about what LS was carrying when she arrived with CR?

It is my understanding that she dropped them somehow and someone else put them up on the rail from the ground.
By the time she reached MB and CR's apartment she supposedly had nothing-no keys, no purse, no phone, no shoes. Seems a little hinky to me, but I am trying to remember college students and not carrying much may seem normal especially if everyone is wasted. MB could have assumed her keys or phone were in a pocket somewhere or with a friend, I suppose.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

JACOBITE -I am sitting here next to a PEDIATRIC CARDIOLOGIST WHO DISPUTES NEARLY EVERY WORD YOU SAY.
1. Long QT is only occasionally misdiagnosed as epilepsy.2. Long QT is NOT a form of epilepsy. The Pediatric cardiologist says, show him the research and he'll be happy to read it. 3. Long QT doesn't ever cause heart failure. Someone who is having a cardiac arrest can have a secondary seizure due to lack of oxygen delivery to the brain. It is not a primary seizure, as in epilepsy. 4. If you get a new heart your Long QT is cured. 5. The problem is caused by the cells in the heart and their regulation of potassium, calcium and sodium. It's not neurologic - it's cardiac. The only connection between Long QT and seizures is that a patient having a cardiac arrest for any reason can have a seizure, as mentioned earlier, due to lack of oxygen. 6. As for Beta Blockers, people can live fortuitously without medication. A BB can help or not help. Any BB bought over the counter would be so weak it wouldn't matter.

This is the 2nd time I've had to enlist this pediatric cardiologist to dispute false medical information you've stated here. I would appreciate it if you would stop doing this. I gather you are captivated by this case, as we all obviously are. But false speculation doesn't help anyone understand what truly happened to Lauren.

I know not addressed to me, but I think J. might be referring to Johnson et al., 2009, Neurology. ("Identification of a possible pathogenic link between congenital long QT syndrome and epilepsy.") Or Omichi et al., 2010, Epilepsia. (This is a case study.) I am looking thru them now...if your friend wants to take a look it would be great because, although I am cool with ion channels in the brain, I only had a semester of cardio physiology and that was a couple years ago. :waitasec: Personally I'd love to hear an expert's opinion but that is just me and I don't wanna be a bother.

ETA: Here are the links: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2677528/?tool=pubmed and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19694797.

As for the b-blockers, I agree with you just based on my personal shopping around. I tried a number of "natural remedies" and they did nothing for me (essential tremor), but as soon as I started with propanolol, it was a world of difference. As far as I know you'd have to ingest massive quantities of herbal remedies to get the same effects as from the rx, which is inefficient and possibly comes with a lot of side-effects.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

It is my understanding that she dropped them somehow and someone else put them up on the rail from the ground.
By the time she reached MB and CR's apartment she supposedly had nothing-no keys, no purse, no phone, no shoes. Seems a little hinky to me, but I am trying to remember college students and not carrying much may seem normal especially if everyone is wasted. MB could have assumed her keys or phone were in a pocket somewhere or with a friend, I suppose.

Iirc, and it is totally possible that I don't, the guy who found them (or was with a friend who found them) gave an interview early on. AA or AJ maybe? :waitasec:

 

[imkeylime]

Do we know for a fact that LS put her keys and purse on the railing before continuing in the direction of 5 north? Do they have that proof on the undisclosed video of LS and mystery person?

JR said LS used his phone to call DR looking for her cell? But what about her keys and purse, wouldnt that be of a more immediate concern? What did JR say about her keys and purse? Did she have them? What did MB say about what LS was carrying when she arrived with CR?

That's an interesting question (why she called to find her cell vs. keys and purse). Maybe she remembered having her keys and purse later on, whereas she knew she lost her cell earlier in the evening? If so, could she possibly have gone looking for her keys/purse on the way home, having already determined that she left her cell somewhere else?

Her cell would have been more valuable than her keys and purse in pure monetary value, I'm sure. (Unless she had $$$ in the purse.) But her keys would have been the high-ticket item in terms of getting into SW at that time of night. OTOH, DR could also let her into SW, since he lived there. So, why not just ask about that (as you noted)? ???

 

[Jupiter812]

That's an interesting question (why she called to find her cell vs. keys and purse). Maybe she remembered having her keys and purse later on, whereas she knew she lost her cell earlier in the evening? If so, could she possibly have gone looking for her keys/purse on the way home, having already determined that she left her cell somewhere else?

Her cell would have been more valuable than her keys and purse in pure monetary value, I'm sure. (Unless she had $$$ in the purse.) But her keys would have been the high-ticket item in terms of getting into SW at that time of night. OTOH, DR could also let her into SW, since he lived there. So, why not just ask about that (as you noted)? ???

Or it could be that JR didn't know that her keys/purse were missing.

 

[Ros]

The incident I posted above was an IU email ALERT. This goes to all students. "She reported that he ran southwest from the scene. She also said she observed a second male subject running away from the scene as well. Officers checked the area but were unable to locate any suspects."

Sounds like it could very well be the same guys.

And another similar incident happened 5 days later. No one was robbed, hurt or abducted. Another ALERT went out.

Sounds to me like a wave of related activity. Did Jacobite or anyone else report what they observed? They should have. It is suspicious but no crime occurred and you'd be hard pressed to even say that an attempted crime occurred.

Do these incidents show up on the Bloomingon Crime Map? I think it covers most or all recent (past year at least) incidents on the police blotter.
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/crime/map/bloomington/

 

[Jupiter812]

Was anyone else a bit surprised in Robert Spierer's mention the other day that he has not spoken to JW for months? I would have expected them to have at least a polite exhange over the holidays. I realize JW's attorney has probably advised no contact, but the last time Robert talked about JW it was fondly and he had talked to him and was hopeful of talking to him again in the future. That was months ago.

 

[Ros]

It is my understanding that she dropped them somehow and someone else put them up on the rail from the ground.
By the time she reached MB and CR's apartment she supposedly had nothing-no keys, no purse, no phone, no shoes. Seems a little hinky to me, but I am trying to remember college students and not carrying much may seem normal especially if everyone is wasted. MB could have assumed her keys or phone were in a pocket somewhere or with a friend, I suppose.

I can no longer fin the article in the Journal News, but it is my understanding that AJA saw the keys on the ground about 3 a.m. and he left them there. Later one of AJA's friends picked them up and put them on the railing. Sometime later a woman found them and reported them to police.

 

[imkeylime]

Or it could be that JR didn't know that her keys/purse were missing.

Well, yes ... I didn't exactly think of that! :blushing: She should have had them earlier in the night, but guys don't always notice stuff like that. I still wonder where her jacket ended up ... with her somehow or elsewhere?

 

[Ven]

Boyfriend cleared yet? HT stopped talking?

Haven't visited these threads since last summer, and unfortunately after skimming the last few pages ... looks like nothing has changed in 6-7 months.

 

[Janeumayer]

Iirc, and it is totally possible that I don't, the guy who found them (or was with a friend who found them) gave an interview early on. AA or AJ maybe? :waitasec:

Here's the single post from thread #2: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6655697&postcount=8"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6655697&postcount=8[/ame]


Her keychain was found the next day near an alleyway behind a building about
100 yards from Rossman’s building.

IU student AJ Amin, 19, told The Journal News Friday that he saw a small
purple pouch with a gold key shortly before 3 am that morning on the
sidewalk near that building. He said he left it there and that a friend of
his put it on a railing when he saw it there a few hours later.

“I didn’t know they were hers,” said Amin, who had not yet given his account
to police.
http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...Spierer-not-last-person-her-?odyssey=nav|head

 

[Alliecog]

There is no "art institute" in Lauren's neighborhood. There are not even art galleries in the neighborhood.

That's not true- there is pictura gallery it's on the square

 

[Jacobite]

http://www.cureepilepsy.org/news/research/sudep.asp LONG QT AND EPILEPSY. MAYBE IT WASN'T A NIGHT OF HARD PARTYING THAT CAUSED HER TO STAGGER.

 

[Jupiter812]

That's not true- there is pictura gallery it's on the square

But Pictura is not in her neighborhood. The square isn't even in her neighborhood. The square is its own distinctly different "zone" which many neighborhoods border. Look at the map on page 1--that is her neighborhood.

 

[Jupiter812]

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/st...rers-disappearance-at-her-familys-request.sto

"Robert and Charlene Spierer want nothing to do with a book of theories about their missing daughter. "

This article is accessible to the public. I imagine the book has some plausible theories and some crackpot theories as well.

 

[Jacobite]

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/st...rers-disappearance-at-her-familys-request.sto

"Robert and Charlene Spierer want nothing to do with a book of theories about their missing daughter. "

This article is accessible to the public. I imagine the book has some plausible theories and some crackpot theories as well.

And, the cocaine OD story was spread by a well known Bloomington public
figure named Gabe Rivera. He was fired by IU for anti-Jewish activities before Lauren went missing. Why does everyone believe him?

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

http://www.cureepilepsy.org/news/research/sudep.asp LONG QT AND EPILEPSY. MAYBE IT WASN'T A NIGHT OF HARD PARTYING THAT CAUSED HER TO STAGGER.

Soo, I read the first reference pretty closely. What that study showed is that mutations in a single gene expression product (ion channel) can cause epilepsy if it is expressed in the brain, and LQT if expressed in heart. The studies were performed in subjects with clinical epilepsy. I might be going out on a limb here, but I think that if LS had epilepsy someone might've mentioned it.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

And, the cocaine OD story was spread by a well known Bloomington public
figure named Gabe Rivera. He was fired by IU for anti-Jewish activities before Lauren went missing. Why does everyone believe him?

I don't understand. Please explain (links)? TIA

 

[Jupiter812]

And, the cocaine OD story was spread by a well known Bloomington public
figure named Gabe Rivera. He was fired by IU for anti-Jewish activities before Lauren went missing. Why does everyone believe him?

Not well known.
Not a public figure.
Fired long before she went missing.
Everyone does not believe him.

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