IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

[OldSteve]

If any are following the Mickey Shunick case
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173300&page=16
it's amazing how much she looks like Holly Bobo, and being petite and blond also reminded me of Lauren...

 

[Murakami]

Greetings, fellow sleuths! I've been following this board for months, and the case since the get go (I was living in Bloomington at the time), but have been too lazy to register until now.

Much has been said and speculated, but for me the most telling piece of information in this case (and one which I feel is often underplayed), is HOW SOON LAUREN'S FRIENDS REPORTED HER MISSING. It was the NEXT DAY - around 2 PM or so. From what I know, it is simply UNHEARD OF to report somebody missing that soon. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the police have a policy that they will not even begin investigations until it has been 24 hours). If I was a college student and couldn't track down my girlfriend/friend the day after partying as much as Lauren had been, I would be thinking she was a.) In bed with some guy. b.) Passed out or hungover on a friend/random person's couch c.) Pissed off for the day and decided to take a random car/shopping trip. d.) Any other dozen number of possibilities. The last thing I would do would be to file a police report AND call LS's parents back in NY telling them that she's "missing" - which is exactly what JW and the others did.

The fact that they decided to go to the police this soon really only leaves two possibilities, as I see it:

1.) They themselves were in fact responsible for whatever happened to Lauren, and were reporting her as a cover up. (Less likely, given that Lauren's dad has basically ruled out JW as a POI)

2.) They must have already had pretty good reason to believe that some EXTREMELY shady stuff had gone down the night before with LS and her company, and that LE should be immediately involved. (More likely)

Basically, I believe that those who reported her missing already had a pretty clear idea of whatever it was that happened - otherwise why go to the police so soon? This fact alone makes the possibility of a random abduction virtually Nil, in my opinion.

So what is going on here? While it is true that Mr. and Mrs. Spierer still seem sincerely duped as to what happened to her daughter, they still must know a LOT more than the public knows.

Some points for thought:

What WAS JW's and the others' reason for reporting Lauren's missing so soon? What led them to believe she was in such danger?

I remember reading a long time ago that CR, when asked what happened to Lauren, said "I have my suspicions"..what WERE they?

A few weeks ago Mr. Spierer was quoted as saying "I believe that if she never met CR, she would be alive today". This says a LOT.

I feel like they already know who did it, and are quite sure of it. They just have no proof..

 

[Murakami]

The 4:15 call does seem key to something.

Keep in mind the 4:15 call was allegedly made to DR, who was one of the few ppl Mr. Spierer has actually cleared from his POI list.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Sending good thoughts to Lauren and her friends on Missing Children's Day. :candle:

 

[imkeylime]

Personally, I find the idea of a clean-up guy pretty Hollywood, but I think your overall point of another party being involved is the scenario that looms largest to me. I hate seeing the argument framed in a A or B, POI or random abduction way because I think it leaves out a giant subset of people who may be responsible.

For me, it comes down to how LS left Bloomington, assuming for the moment that she did and isn't in some crawlspace, freezer, etc. There was a small window of opportunity between when she was last seen (???) and searched for in earnest, but the known POIs' whereabouts/vehicles were surely analyzed/inspected.

A third unknown party with a car or truck parked near the gravel lot or the construction zone behind 5 North would have come in useful. IDK what to think about DB, JR's alleged house guest. Enough has been reported about him that I can't believe his story/vehicle wasn't checked out by LE if he was actually there. JMO.

We need a vehicle that relates to this case, which is why the white truck was so intriguing and hard to let go of. LS was so small ... she could have easily fit in a roof-top cargo carrier, a rolled rug, etc.

 

[monkey222]

Welcome Murikami, And yes, your points are right on with my initial thinking of the early reporting. I too, went to IU, and boy oh boy, if any of my roomies reported us missing after a night of bar hopping we would be pretty mad. When I first heard of the afternoon reporting I thought how odd, I mean, she could be having fun, hooked up with someone, for fun, etc. We would say the next morning, "look what the cat dragged in" when one of our roomies found her way back home. Yes, we were young and invincible but we would never call our parents, or a roomies boyfriend, or the police. The fact that these calls were made so quickly tell us that there was some serious shady activity KNOWN to be going about in that circle of friends, or POIs. The reportiing by the roommate and boyfriend within not even a new evening of darkness, Fri afternoon, right? tell us that there is known dangers surrounding that night's activities. I also believe that the boyfriend, AND roommate reported her missing separately. That is equally strange, and shows what a known dangerous crowd this group hangs in.

 

[imkeylime]

Keep in mind the 4:15 call was allegedly made to DR, who was one of the few ppl Mr. Spierer has actually cleared from his POI list.

True, but what if the call was made to provide an alibi or a cover, by someone other than LS. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered if it was to DB, HT, etc. Maybe the call was to mess with the timeline by making it look like LS was still there. Actually, maybe DR was chosen specifically because he was a good friend, i.e., he's someone LS herself would have called. The problem with that is that DB could have actually picked up, I suppose.

In a recent article, the Spierers said that JR's story sounded scripted. IDK how that reconciles with him passing any type of polygraph, though.

 

[midwestgirl]

This is the second post in which you have been hyperbolic about Lauren's behavior and I can't help but to wonder why.

I am just flashing back to my own college experiences, thinking back to things I did, things my friends did, and so on. I didn't go to IU, but I think what happened to Lauren could happen to any girl in college. I remember the one time in college I had to walk home alone when I didn't live right near campus and the downtown bars. I remember how scary it was for me then and I'm grateful I only had to do it one time. I was fortunate, because all the other times I went out that year, someone else was always there to watch out for me and make sure I didn't have to walk home on my own.

One thing I know for sure - alcohol makes you lose control of your emotions. Girls tend to get over emotional, crying, upset when they are drunk and guys tend to get angry and aggressive. I just think that's something to consider when looking into what happened that night.

 

[OldSteve]

Respectfully snipped:

The fact that they decided to go to the police this soon really only leaves two possibilities, as I see it:

1.) They themselves were in fact responsible for whatever happened to Lauren, and were reporting her as a cover up. (Less likely, given that Lauren's dad has basically ruled out JW as a POI)

2.) They must have already had pretty good reason to believe that some EXTREMELY shady stuff had gone down the night before with LS and her company, and that LE should be immediately involved. (More likely)

First :welcome: and thanks for pointing this out - very timely I might add for those of us who are following the unfolding case of Mickey Shunick
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173300&page=21

Exactly what you said can be seen in her case - where she leaves friend house to ride along home on her bike at 2am. Before leaving she isn't feeling well. Still no one checks to see if she made it home, if she home next morning.

No one has a clue she never made home till next evening when she is supposed to go to brothers graduation...

 

[Mophebius]

JR allegedly had a house guest (DB) who has been widely speculated about on the web and blogosphere. But his name didnt come up for quite a while in the case. I didnt hear him mentioned or see his name being posted anywhere until around 2 weeks after the disappearance. The injection of a new player into this case 2 weeks down the road is interesting to say the least. Why didn't we hear his name for so long? Was he being protected by poi's? was he considered a less valuable witness/poi's (tier two poi as the BPD refered to them)? He allegedly had a vehicle, was it ever searched or inspected? DB IMO opens the door for so many other possible senario's and really changes the dynamics of this case for me. I wonder if LE knew of him from very early on or if he wasn't brought into the lime light until well after the investigation was underway? I've read that he left town june 3rd as well (which was what a tuesday?), which makes me somewhat suspicious. Not to mention he was at JR's house during this entire event... If not a suspect, he would at least have some potentially very interesting information and unique perspective on the nights events. I know almost nothing has been coroborrated by LE in this case, but I cant help but wonder about the cell phone ping rumors we've heard rumblings about in the case as well (allegedly JR's cell phone pinged a martinsville tower just before 4 am june 3rd). Crossing my fingers that the BPD has done their due diligence on investigating the techy side of this case.

 

[Ros]

(Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the police have a policy that they will not even begin investigations until it has been 24 hours). ..

After "Molly's Law" was passed in Indiana in 2007, the police have to treat a report of a missing adult seriously even if less than 24 hours have passed.

http://michellesaysso.blogspot.com/2007/03/indiana-missing-persons-legislation.html

 

[Jupiter812]

I am just flashing back to my own college experiences, thinking back to things I did, things my friends did, and so on. I didn't go to IU, but I think what happened to Lauren could happen to any girl in college. I remember the one time in college I had to walk home alone when I didn't live right near campus and the downtown bars. I remember how scary it was for me then and I'm grateful I only had to do it one time. I was fortunate, because all the other times I went out that year, someone else was always there to watch out for me and make sure I didn't have to walk home on my own.

One thing I know for sure - alcohol makes you lose control of your emotions. Girls tend to get over emotional, crying, upset when they are drunk and guys tend to get angry and aggressive. I just think that's something to consider when looking into what happened that night.

Yes, I realize that. The point I was making (and perhaps too obliquely) is it's important to not over exaggerate when speculating about a victim's behavior. Small case in point: There is no evidence that Lauren went to more than one bar that night, so to say she could have gone to the bars that night looking for drugs paints an entirely different picture that is hurtful, imo, to her and her parents. Thanks.

FWIW my personal opinion of Lauren, from how her parents and friends have described her, is she's not the type to get all emotional and needy.

 

[Jacobite]

I have been over this several times on here, discussing probability etc. Back again to help try and refocus things a bit. If you logically and rationally think about Lauren's disappearance, giving careful thought to what weknow of the nights events, alcohol and drug use/abuse, who she was with, where she was, their known activities, familiarity with the area, the fact that we have zero confirmation that she spent any of the day or evening alone, the facts and percentages of abduction type cases that are random (very small), population density, time of the morning, crime rate, security/surveilance equipment etc. And even if we take what JR said at face value that LS left his house between 4:15 and 4:25 and he watched her round a corner towards home, were talking a very short distance (under 50 yards) from rounding that corner and where she would have come to her first surveilance camera (which she never made it to). I hope you can see what I'm getting at here and just how small the chance of her being randomly abducted actually were. I talked to a friend here at the University of Montana (who is mind-numbingly smart) about the probability of this case being a random abduction case. He explained that while it would be variable, he surmised the probability of this being random were under .0001 percent. So were talking in the thousandth's of one percent here. In other words, it's about as believeable given what we know of the evening, that Lauren was struck by lightning and disentigrated as it was that this was random. I myself, still believe that LE has the correct POI's, but lack enough tangible and forensic evidence to proceed with the case. We all know how difficult it is to prosecute without a body or forensics. Not going to speculate this time whether it was a nefarious premeditated crime, accidental death ie overdose and subsequent cover-up etc. or maybe a crime of opportunity/accident ie the movie very bad things type senario. But I am quite confident that the perp/perps is a known POI and BPD just lacks substantial enough evidence to move forward with an arrest. Bottom line, I would feel comfortable doubleing down and betting the house on this not being random.

Most of us have been wrong about the video evidence that LE might have. The alley camera between 10th and 11th is pointing west not east. This means there were no cameras at all that would have captured Lauren's reported walk home.
THE MYSTERY MAN---A witness claims to have seen him carry Lauren away just after 3:30. BPD said, this is not supported by video evidence when they should have said, WE DON'T HAVE ANY CAMERAS. Jay Rosenbaum said he saw Lauren round a corner on college. BPD again said we don't have any video evidence to support that claim. They should have said. WE DON'T HAVE ANY CAMERAS. The public has been misled into thinking that incriminating video exists, that in fact does not exist at all. NOT BPD'S FAULT. Sloppy reporting again.
Your friend may be very bright. But, with the wrong data in. He can't have the right answer.

 

[Jacobite]

JR allegedly had a house guest (DB) who has been widely speculated about on the web and blogosphere. But his name didnt come up for quite a while in the case. I didnt hear him mentioned or see his name being posted anywhere until around 2 weeks after the disappearance. The injection of a new player into this case 2 weeks down the road is interesting to say the least. Why didn't we hear his name for so long? Was he being protected by poi's? was he considered a less valuable witness/poi's (tier two poi as the BPD refered to them)? He allegedly had a vehicle, was it ever searched or inspected? DB IMO opens the door for so many other possible senario's and really changes the dynamics of this case for me. I wonder if LE knew of him from very early on or if he wasn't brought into the lime light until well after the investigation was underway? I've read that he left town june 3rd as well (which was what a tuesday?), which makes me somewhat suspicious. Not to mention he was at JR's house during this entire event... If not a suspect, he would at least have some potentially very interesting information and unique perspective on the nights events. I know almost nothing has been coroborrated by LE in this case, but I cant help but wonder about the cell phone ping rumors we've heard rumblings about in the case as well (allegedly JR's cell phone pinged a martinsville tower just before 4 am june 3rd). Crossing my fingers that the BPD has done their due diligence on investigating the techy side of this case.

OK. The 4 AM phone call may have been pinged to a Martinsville tower. I wonder where the 4:15 call that Lauren was said to make was billed from.

 

[midwestgirl]

FWIW my personal opinion of Lauren, from how her parents and friends have described her, is she's not the type to get all emotional and needy.

You don't need to be a "type" to lose control of your emotions. We all have our moments and it doesn't make us weak or needy. I'm not trying to speculate...but considering Lauren was not with her boyfriend that night, she may have been upset over that. That's how girls deal with breakups and relationship problems, myself included, they act like everything's fine and nothing is wrong, but alcohol can help bring out your true emotions.

If this is the case -I would hope her own friends would be forgiving and understanding. Unfortunately I think the guys she was with were too caught up in their own drama (the fight breaking out) to look out for her safety.

 

[Jacobite]

A source who is part of this case told me that he believed Lauren died well before 4:30 AM. More like an hour earlier.
That would be around the time when a witness saw her at 10th and College with the MYSTERY MAN.
This info seems to have poked holes in my kidnapped-Stockholm theory. He also said Corey was with Lauren at Sports. So, the story about her being alone is not true.

 

[Ros]

A source who is part of this case told me that he believed Lauren died well before 4:30 AM. More like an hour earlier.
That would be around the time when a witness saw her at 10th and College with the MYSTERY MAN.
This info seems to have poked holes in my kidnapped-Stockholm theory. He also said Corey was with Lauren at Sports. So, the story about her being alone is not true.

Did your source give a rationale for that belief?

 

[imkeylime]

JR allegedly had a house guest (DB) who has been widely speculated about on the web and blogosphere. But his name didnt come up for quite a while in the case. I didnt hear him mentioned or see his name being posted anywhere until around 2 weeks after the disappearance. The injection of a new player into this case 2 weeks down the road is interesting to say the least. Why didn't we hear his name for so long? Was he being protected by poi's? was he considered a less valuable witness/poi's (tier two poi as the BPD refered to them)? He allegedly had a vehicle, was it ever searched or inspected? DB IMO opens the door for so many other possible senario's and really changes the dynamics of this case for me. I wonder if LE knew of him from very early on or if he wasn't brought into the lime light until well after the investigation was underway? I've read that he left town june 3rd as well (which was what a tuesday?), which makes me somewhat suspicious. Not to mention he was at JR's house during this entire event... If not a suspect, he would at least have some potentially very interesting information and unique perspective on the nights events. I know almost nothing has been coroborrated by LE in this case, but I cant help but wonder about the cell phone ping rumors we've heard rumblings about in the case as well (allegedly JR's cell phone pinged a martinsville tower just before 4 am june 3rd). Crossing my fingers that the BPD has done their due diligence on investigating the techy side of this case.

The thing that strikes me about DB, and it's probably a knee-jerk reaction, is that his family is extremely well off and most likely well connected, which really shouldn't make a difference. But both DB and JR are from the area of MI where another notorious case (way before their time) was most likely compromised, hence my reaction. (I'm not implying LE didn't do their job in that case, even, just that a lot of resources went into a cover-up, I've come to believe.)

But LE must have followed up on DB ... and the Spierers themselves check message boards (and would know what we know), as I'm sure their PI does.

From researching DB as best I could, he and JR seemed extremely close ... they even shared an old Myspace page that's probably gone now. And the tweet about the Runcible Spoon has always interested me. Like you, I wish we knew more.

 

[Jupiter812]

Yes, perhaps they are so close that JR would make himself the last person to see her. Many things about DB could explain this disappearance. I can imagine that the moneyed interests of DB's family would be a factor too.

 

[imkeylime]

Yes, perhaps they are so close that JR would make himself the last person to see her. Many things about DB could explain this disappearance. I can imagine that the moneyed interests of DB's family would be a factor too.

Agreed. I'm curious about the tweet ... was the tweet the reason people think DB was in town visiting JR, or did HT suggest that DB was in town and then the tweet surfaced?

I don't see why DB would be in Bloomington and not be in touch, if not actually staying with, JR. So if the tweet's legit, IMO, it's a safe to think that he saw JR. OTOH, I'd also imagine him eating at the Runcible Spoon with somebody versus alone.

I once stumbled something on a Phish-related site that possibly showed DB and MB as "friends." Somehow I didn't save that, and I've never found it again. It could have also not been MB, but I remember that it included part of his name and a numeral.