IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

[mik1965]

I think it's JR calling ZO, who was with Lauren earlier in the evening watching basketball at Smallwood. Wasn't there speculation at some point that ZO was an informant? What if he was but was still dealing, and then supposedly LS was running her mouth at Kilroys about all the drugs they had done and possibly where they came from. Thoughts? Maybe he thought she needed to be hushed.

 

[elmorejames]

or because it is totally irrelevant, because the person is not a POI, didn't even answer his phone and therefore has no reason to be named in the media... ? Either is possible.

Who knows.... Maybe LE is holding this very very close. What if JR called CR????

What if she died on him, he calls DR and then CR like, "what did she take, what did you give her". BUT NO ONE ANSWERS.

What if JR calls DB alleged guest from home? Maybe he went on a food run and was called back to the house?

I'm not sure what to think... I check daily change my mind hourly and speak my mind to share my thoughts for other to refute or agree.

I know two things.... 1) drugs brings together the oddest of people that you may never encounter sober.

2) someone goes to bed each night worrying if they will wake up the next day and walk free while still thinking they got away with!

 

[AbbeyR]

Who knows.... Maybe LE is holding this very very close. What if JR called CR????

I hope LE does have info that they are holding close. Like I said, either is possible. But I don't think that call was to CR.

In the half-hour before she purportedly left, two calls were placed from Rosenbaum’s phone. Rosenbaum said Spierer placed both calls, one to Rohn and another to a male friend who also was with her earlier that night watching basketball at Smallwood.

Both were sleeping, neither picked up, and no messages were left.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use?nclick_check=1

 

[elmorejames]

I think it's JR calling ZO, who was with Lauren earlier in the evening watching basketball at Smallwood. Wasn't there speculation at some point that ZO was an informant? What if he was but was still dealing, and then supposedly LS was running her mouth at Kilroys about all the drugs they had done and possibly where they came from. Thoughts? Maybe he thought she needed to be hushed.

If an informant and still dealing chances of LE knowingly would implicate corruption. I've tossed the idea around about shady police supplying etc. always wondered if it were bigger than college boys?

The whole Officer Lerg suicide days before not using his service weapon never st well with me. why on duty would you not committ suicide with the firearm on your hip?

 

[VeryVeritas]

One of the very bad things about illegal drugs is the creepy people you have to know to get these drugs. The larger the quantity, THE CREEPIER THE PEOPLE. You might be able to buy a small amount of coke from a college buddy and not put yourself in danger. But, we are talking about a bag being found by a police search of Lauren's apartment. Maybe planted there. She now becomes connected with someone who is involved in organized crime in order to have that amount. It is the Eastern European Mafia who are bringing this crime to INDIANA. They are now very powerful in the Hoosier State. I would not put it past these guys to sell a girl like Lauren into slavery and cover it up with an OD story. The Eastern European Mafia is certainly involved
in white slavery and they prefer little blondes.


As far as disposing of a body, I'd think someone from Indiana would be more able to pull this off, especially when he was over that night, lives on a lake, has a boat, and has a garage where he can find hardware to sink a body in his lake.


Regardless of what happened, I think the girl was caught in a trap from which she found no escape. She came under some very bad influences in Bloomington and it's sad because she was one week away from escaping it and being back in NYC with people who truly loved her. The FBI REALLY NEEDS TO JUMP BACK IN AND TAKE OVER.

Yeah we explored all of that last year. The thing is JR would be the link to them. So, if I were JR, and had testicles, I would say to Bratva - let her go and I'll not say a word. Otherwise, JR's life will be haunted by this and or them forever and so he might as well call up the FBI and go into hiding.

I agree that the FBI should have taken this case over a long time ago.

And one thing about the people who keep asking - could these guys (CR/MB/JR) have pulled this off? I do not believe they could without some sort of help. And realize their stories are actually very simple; Amnesia, She went to JR's and She walked down 11th. Stories that are based on such ultra simplicity are hard to screw up. More professional interrogations could likely crack it. But since they can go about their lives as though nothing happened indeed they are pulling it off every single day.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Since CR and LS stopped twice to sit down after ZO punched CR at SW, I think it means they weren't afraid of them coming after them. If ZO and his boys were following them from SW then why would they stop and sit down on the steps.

Since a witness reported seeing LS on those steps falling over from a sitting position and clunking her head with an audible thud, I would venture to say that they stopped to sit down because she was just about unconscious.

 

[VeryVeritas]

The new details in the recent articles:
. LS hits her head to the ground while seated on the steps,
. LS falls down while walking and doesn’t break her fall with hands,
. needs to sit down for rest breaks with CR from Smallwood to 5North,
. CR giving LS “piggyback” ride

We should be careful describing it as "piggyback" ride.
It could be interpreted that they were just horsing around.
It's a whole lot different if she couldn't walk at all. And from her falling over and clunking her head from a sitting position and shortly thereafter slamming down face first, it's clear to me that she was blacking out. So CR had her on his back because she was not going anywhere otherwise.

. CR “pulling” LS …

make me wonder if LS was having a Long QT Syndrome (LQTS) attack(s) on the way back to 5North. Until now I had solely attributed her condition to too much alcohol/drugs.

On the Boston Scientific website, the signs and symptoms of LQTS-related arrhythmias include “unexplained fainting or seizures, drowning or near drowning (due to fainting while swimming), sudden cardiac arrest and sudden death.”

Did LS “faint while walking” instead of “blacking out”?

On the latest video, a PI states LS was alive, but not necessarily well on the way back to 5North.

I agree it could be either or both. I'm not sure if this distinction will ever be known at this point. How would it change what follows?

What if LS was dying (sorry) on the walk back to 5North?
If so, MB/CR or MB/CR/JR might have had trouble on their hands as early as 3am.
Perhaps they called in Person X (aka Mystery Man) to help remove LS from the scene.
Did Person X/Mystery Man have a car?
Was Person X/Mystery Man “playing her off” as alive (but she was in fact no longer) in case anybody on the streets noticed them?

Does anyone remember if the bar manager heard LS speak when she saw the Mystery Man at 3:38am? (Or did witness only hear the MM saying something like, “do you want to go home?” … can’t remember the details)

That's what I recall too.

Does anyone remember exactly where the bar manager said she saw the Mystery Man at 3:38a?

I'm recalling it to be north of the 10th and College (Building #4 in the recent Lohud map) on that side of the street. Coming out that way from the gravel lot would avoid cameras.

I’m wondering if LS was in her last moments in the gravel lot just past the last camera … did CR pull her when she couldn’t walk?

Did CR then leave LS there and run to get help from MB or help from MB/JR to figure out next steps thinking she had OD’d?

Chances are CR/MB did not know LS had LQTS since they’d known each other for a week.
They might have mistakenly thought she had OD’d and felt responsible if they’d done/supplied her with drugs earlier … so they plotted a cover up.

For a long time I was stuck on that gravel lot and that CR might have left her there, went to get someone, pulled her behind something, etc... But I ruled that out because within a very short time interval the person who picked up her keys and purse saw nothing. That means they were out of that lot fast. And also someone must have seen CR with LS on his back at that point, in such proximity that they knew LS was still alive. At least that's how I have the sequence, that LS is on CR's back as they are arriving at 5N.

What was the comment CR made the next morning, something like, "Has anyone seen a little blond girl?" ... that comment has always struck me as so coy. Did CR say it to JR? Seems like it could be something said to "solidify" the big pretense.

Also, if LS did die in the gravel lot, there would be no DNA evidence at CRs or JRs.

Her DNA would be in CR/MB's and JR's regardless because she was in both places earlier in the evening.

 

[VeryVeritas]

ZO was visiting that night. I hear Lauren did not care for him and it was suggested that he may be the reason that she just got up and left the party at Smallwood without saying anything. He's still over at 3AM, so, she leaves again. There was a rowdy party at home. She did not have to leave to find a party.

But, I read now in the news that he is the hero.

1) Who said LS was at this party at Smallwood?
(note it's not unusual for people in these social situations to find someone annoying or boring and go to another place - I'll agree LS seemed a bit restless, why is not clear)

2) Who said she left because of ZO?

3) I don't recall seeing anywhere that ZO has a lake, a boat, a dock, etc...
please elaborate on where these details come from. I do recall someone saying he was tied to local LE, and connected to gansters. Exactly where does ZO live? What is the name of this lake?

 

[VeryVeritas]

Or even if ZO didn't intercept her after she left JR's, maybe he was partially responsible for whatever may have killed her...such as the drugs she took at Smallwood earlier in the evening before leaving with DR to go to 5N. Maybe the 2nd phone call was to ZO (someone who she had seen earlier at Smallwood so the story goes). But I doubt seriously that LS made the calls...I'm sure it was JR letting ZO know they had a big problem or better yet calling him to see if "things were being taken care of" or "she's ready for pickup or something like that".

That 2nd call gets more interesting every minute.

Effectively you are saying ZO could be Person X.

Where does ZO live?

 

[Ros]

That 2nd call gets more interesting every minute.

Effectively you are saying ZO could be Person X.

Where does ZO live?

Not sure where ZO's permanent residence is now. He allegedly lived at 10th and College in B'ton. I think his late mother lived in an expensive residence on Lake Clearwater in Indianapolis. I don't know whether the home went to ZO or his stepfather after his mother died in 2007. ZO may have been a minor when his mother passed away and he may have gone to live with his father and stepmother.

 

[Murakami]

Incredible amount of good thinking and rich material to run on going on here. I certainly hope LE and PI have a chance to look over some of the ideas presented.

 

[imkeylime]

Good observation. However...
If JW wanted LS so badly why didn't he meet up with her? ...

I just don't see it. But I will agree that JW's posts do seem like he was doing so on purpose. My take on that is, like FB in general... people tend to post what they want other people to see, because they know other people are looking. A totally innocent person may reason that they may look guilty if they don't post something. Perhaps close friends of JW would know how sincere his posts sounded. He certainly seemed to have HT thinking he was wonderful. Maybe his charm is/was a front. There should be enough people that knew him that could comment.

The BF would naturally be the one with the strongest motives.
Yet, nothing about this guy indicates that he would have suddenly snapped in a jealous rage.

It's of course a valid theory, there just isn't much to support it.

Snipped by me. Re: guilt: IMO, JW may have behaved oddly because he felt guilty about what happened that night vs. he was the guilty party. Guilt often accompanies loss under even normal circumstances, i.e., if only I'd done X, Y would still be alive. It's not survivor guilt, it's more about the failure to save.

For instance, if JW had joined LS at SW, she would have probably left with him. Maybe he did hear that she was with CR at SW but decided to let it slide. Or maybe he knew LS was dabbling in drugs and didn't do anything about it. Or maybe they were having relationship issues, which he regrets. There are so many maybes in this case.

I may eat my words, but my guess is that JW wasn't functioning well following Ls' disappearance and was acting irrational due to that. I do think the PI's attitude about JW is interesting, however.

 

[holly2325]

Snipped by me. Re: guilt: IMO, JW may have behaved oddly because he felt guilty about what happened that night vs. he was the guilty party. Guilt often accompanies loss under even normal circumstances, i.e., if only I'd done X, Y would still be alive. It's not survivor guilt, it's more about the failure to save.

For instance, if JW had joined LS at SW, she would have probably left with him. Maybe he did hear that she was with CR at SW but decided to let it slide. Or maybe he knew LS was dabbling in drugs and didn't do anything about it. Or maybe they were having relationship issues, which he regrets. There are so many maybes in this case.

I may eat my words, but my guess is that JW wasn't functioning well following Ls' disappearance and was acting irrational due to that. I do think the PI's attitude about JW is interesting, however.

If JW did this, somehow LS and JW's path had to have intersected that night undetected by cameras and unheard by anyone OR JW's housemates would have to falsely alibi him for murder.
Either scenario seems so unlikely, both create many details to discover. Leave after 2:30 grab her, hide her, come home no scratches. Grab her, bring her home they don't hear the car. She stumbles in at 4:45 and the housemates hear nothing.

Some thoughts on the facebook comments. Maybe they are JW's attempt to publicly establish himself as LS boyfriend ( media has created some questions about that) and to elevate his status in his own mind. She is famous now and he wants to connect with that ( I think this is more or less at the subconscious level to be fair)

 

[imkeylime]

If JW did this, somehow LS and JW's path had to have intersected that night undetected by cameras and unheard by anyone OR JW's housemates would have to falsely alibi him for murder.
Either scenario seems so unlikely, both create many details to discover. Leave after 2:30 grab her, hide her, come home no scratches. Grab her, bring her home they don't hear the car. She stumbles in at 4:45 and the housemates hear nothing.

Some thoughts on the facebook comments. Maybe they are JW's attempt to publicly establish himself as LS boyfriend ( media has created some questions about that) and to elevate his status in his own mind. She is famous now and he wants to connect with that ( I think this is more or less at the subconscious level to be fair)

Yes, I agree ... his FB comments might just be a response to public scrutiny, subconscious even, as you note. IMO, sudden losses can play with your head, and I would consider this a sudden loss. I also consider his anger normal.

It's only the PI's comments that throw me a little. IDK. Maybe JW doesn't want to share too much about LS' last hours because doing so would incriminate the people she was partying with at SW (and not bring her back). Or maybe he was out of the loop and doesn't want to admit that.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Not sure where ZO's permanent residence is now. He allegedly lived at 10th and College in B'ton. I think his late mother lived in an expensive residence on Lake Clearwater in Indianapolis. I don't know whether the home went to ZO or his stepfather after his mother died in 2007. ZO may have been a minor when his mother passed away and he may have gone to live with his father and stepmother.

That's the same building where CR and LS went to knock on the door of the 4(girls?) whom did not answer, but someone saw LS fall over and clunk her head while sitting.

It's just north of here where the Bartender said she saw LS over a man's shoulder at 3:38am

This building is enroute from 11th & College (where JR claims to have last seen her) to Smallwood.

1) I'm really curious about why LS/CR was knocking on that door.
Perhaps LS wanted to crash there - 4 girls. It does make sense that the altercation at smallwood perhaps was enough to make LS just want to go crash somewhere else. But she may have had enough consciousness to know she didn't want to wind up at CR's place.

2) IF I were LE or PI I would have lists of everyone living in the 10th and College Building - as well as 5N and Smallwood and would analyze the connections between people in those buildings.

3) It may seem strange, but now, conscious or not, alive or not, willing or not, 3:15/3:38/or/4:30 this building is bugging me. Is the parking garage for this building underground? Are there cameras in the parking garage? Were cadaver dogs at this building? Doesn't DR also live in this building?
Besides ZO, and possibly DR are there any other POI's connected to this building?

 

[holly2325]

If LS can't tell us this and CR has amnesia and the 4 girls were not home. How do they say they know that the stop was made to knock on the door of the 4 girls apt. Plus this is the building that faces College not Morton right. Where do I read about this? I forget.

Plus do reports of the older girl witness place them on the steps at 10th and college or just some steps along the way. Does anyone have a true sense of where that happened. I know there were call outs that the steps phototed in the article were probably not the actual steps. I guess this means that CR/LS did not exit a back door at Smallwood and travel straight up the alley. They must have spent some time on College.

Does anyone remember what page the link to the lohud map is on?

 

[akh]

Wouldn't it have been nice if the reporter, upon hearing some of these specific details, would have asked how this information is known (Video, witness, or speculation for some reason)? Even if they didn't want to answer as to how it was known you'd think they could answer as to whether it was in any form speculation or if they had sources somehow.

Even if the answer is "We'd prefer not to say" at least the reading public wouldn't be left so much in the dark and would know that info is being kept secret versus wondering if the question was even asked.

 

[AbbeyR]

Wouldn't it have been nice if the reporter, upon hearing some of these specific details, would have asked how this information is known (Video, witness, or speculation for some reason)? Even if they didn't want to answer as to how it was known you'd think they could answer as to whether it was in any form speculation or if they had sources somehow.

Even if the answer is "We'd prefer not to say" at least the reading public wouldn't be left so much in the dark and would know that info is being kept secret versus wondering if the question was even asked.

In the video, they shift from the reporter to a snippet from the PI, and the wording is awkward -- it seems like they must have edited out the source on purpose.

SC: So Lauren and Corey headed up an alleyway from there and Lauren is seen falling face first to the ground, hitting her head. She didn't even put up her hands to block herself. Corey helped her to her feet and then just a few steps later she crumbled again to the ground. And again, Corey helps her up and they head up the street. So Lauren and Corey headed up an alleyway from there and head into an apartment building at Tenth and College and knock on the door of four girls who were partying with them earlier in the night, but no one's home.

MC: A minute later,[-> witness x sees?] the door opening and them going back down and him helping her with that, kinda slung across his back.

 

[monkey222]

Becasue they were both hammered.

 

[imkeylime]

That 2nd call gets more interesting every minute.

Effectively you are saying ZO could be Person X.

Where does ZO live?

He lived at 10th and College with three roommates, one of which was AB. ZO is the one who tweeted about giving somebody a flashlight and an Adderall to find LS. Given that DR mentions Klonopin, I wonder if ZO could have had a source for prescription drugs (or was one). In other words, could his concern at SW been as much about himself as her?