IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

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Who was over that night that fits your description. I have my ideas but I wouldn't necessarily say he "was over". Drop some initials brother!

ZO was visiting that night. I hear Lauren did not care for him and it was suggested that he may be the reason that she just got up and left the party at Smallwood without saying anything. He's still over at 3AM, so, she leaves again. There was a rowdy party at home. She did not have to leave to find a party.

But, I read now in the news that he is the hero.
 
The new details in the recent articles:
. LS hits her head to the ground while seated on the steps,
. LS falls down while walking and doesn’t break her fall with hands,
. needs to sit down for rest breaks with CR from Smallwood to 5North,
. CR giving LS “piggyback” ride
. CR “pulling” LS …

make me wonder if LS was having a Long QT Syndrome (LQTS) attack(s) on the way back to 5North. Until now I had solely attributed her condition to too much alcohol/drugs.

On the Boston Scientific website, the signs and symptoms of LQTS-related arrhythmias include “unexplained fainting or seizures, drowning or near drowning (due to fainting while swimming), sudden cardiac arrest and sudden death.”

Did LS “faint while walking” instead of “blacking out”?

On the latest video, a PI states LS was alive, but not necessarily well on the way back to 5North.

What if LS was dying (sorry) on the walk back to 5North?
If so, MB/CR or MB/CR/JR might have had trouble on their hands as early as 3am.
Perhaps they called in Person X (aka Mystery Man) to help remove LS from the scene.
Did Person X/Mystery Man have a car?
Was Person X/Mystery Man “playing her off” as alive (but she was in fact no longer) in case anybody on the streets noticed them?

Does anyone remember if the bar manager heard LS speak when she saw the Mystery Man at 3:38am? (Or did witness only hear the MM saying something like, “do you want to go home?” … can’t remember the details)

Does anyone remember exactly where the bar manager said she saw the Mystery Man at 3:38a?

I’m wondering if LS was in her last moments in the gravel lot just past the last camera … did CR pull her when she couldn’t walk?

Did CR then leave LS there and run to get help from MB or help from MB/JR to figure out next steps thinking she had OD’d?

Chances are CR/MB did not know LS had LQTS since they’d known each other for a week.
They might have mistakenly thought she had OD’d and felt responsible if they’d done/supplied her with drugs earlier … so they plotted a cover up.

What was the comment CR made the next morning, something like, "Has anyone seen a little blond girl?" ... that comment has always struck me as so coy. Did CR say it to JR? Seems like it could be something said to "solidify" the big pretense.

Also, if LS did die in the gravel lot, there would be no DNA evidence at CRs or JRs.



Still just thinking out loud.
Sorry to have typed some of this…it is so dark.
Peace to the Spierer’s.

Lauren's form of Long QT is caused by a gene. The gene has also been linked to seizures. The seizures are not always life threatening. But, a seizure could also explain the condition she was in that night. I'd really like to see the video myself to make sure what I read was not a sensationalist exaggeration. This is not like the Lauren known by her girl friends in NYC. They can't believe that she got into drugs in her last three weeks in Bloomington.
 
Wow, what a revelation that is...that there was a rowdy party at Smallwood too and that ZO was there, and that LS didn't care for ZO. So she leaves with DR to go to 5N. At 3:00 when they go back to Smallwood, ZO is still there and a fight ensues. Perhaps they were fighting over LS. And because she didn't care for ZO, she leaves again...this time with CR even though she is in bad shape. Perhaps ZO did lay in wait for her to leave, and intercepted her and did something to her and disposed of her body. ZO's friend AB meets the description of the mystery man. And maybe they took her away in a friend's construction vehicle (aka white truck). Maybe the reason all the boys are staying hush hush is because ZO has threatened them and they all are afraid of him, not to mention they all have a part in her demise. Thoughts???
 
Here is some info I would have liked updated in the story or video. Were CR, MB, JR and ZO all students this past year? If so, were CR and MB roommates again? Did JR have a roommate? Who did ZO room with. Just wondered how close they all were this past year.
 
Or even if ZO didn't intercept her after she left JR's, maybe he was partially responsible for whatever may have killed her...such as the drugs she took at Smallwood earlier in the evening before leaving with DR to go to 5N. Maybe the 2nd phone call was to ZO (someone who she had seen earlier at Smallwood so the story goes). But I doubt seriously that LS made the calls...I'm sure it was JR letting ZO know they had a big problem or better yet calling him to see if "things were being taken care of" or "she's ready for pickup or something like that".
 
I can't believe it has been a year. Come home soon, Lauren. :rose:
 
Wow, what a revelation that is...that there was a rowdy party at Smallwood too and that ZO was there, and that LS didn't care for ZO. So she leaves with DR to go to 5N. At 3:00 when they go back to Smallwood, ZO is still there and a fight ensues. Perhaps they were fighting over LS. And because she didn't care for ZO, she leaves again...this time with CR even though she is in bad shape. Perhaps ZO did lay in wait for her to leave, and intercepted her and did something to her and disposed of her body. ZO's friend AB meets the description of the mystery man. And maybe they took her away in a friend's construction vehicle (aka white truck). Maybe the reason all the boys are staying hush hush is because ZO has threatened them and they all are afraid of him, not to mention they all have a part in her demise. Thoughts???

If you ask me, this sounds a lot more realistic than some of the other scenarios people have suggested.

Other than that I think maybe someone else was called at some point in the night (whose name no one knows - a drug dealer? random acquaintance) to hide the body. I don't think all of her friends were involved.

I don't think the BF had anything at all to do with it. From what I've gathered he sounds like a pretty decent guy...can't say as much for some of her other "friends."
 
I can't quite get past the fact that if the 5 North guys were involved that they managed this so cleanly. I'd expect physical evidence and conflicting statements to have derailed them fairly quickly. I'd also have expected the police to focus on them fairly tightly too. It makes me think they've at least presented a plausible story, little evidence of a crime, and there are other PsOI who can't be excluded to the point it's taken emphasis off CR/MB/JR.

I completely agree with this. If the three boys were involved and hiding a secret, it's amazing how well they have managed to pull it off without the slightest bit of incriminating evidence. The only trouble these boys have been in seem to be alcohol related and fairly innocent, so I find it hard to believe they could be so successful pulling up a crime that has had so much attention. Also, they are all from out of state so I find it unlikely that they know an area in Indiana rural enough to dispose a body. Plus, I'm sure all their cars have been searched and sniffed by dogs, they would be actual suspects if anything of Lauren came up.

Even if they disposed of her in a trash bin, how did they manage their composure during the searches knowing the body could easily be found? We've mentioned JR's housemate as maybe the one who moved the body but it seems odd to me that a visitor who doesn't even know LS, would implicate themselves in a crime like this. It's all odd.
 
Does anyone perhaps know where JW lived at the time? I know it was the 600 block of E 9th Street but I'm having a hard time finding it on a map.
 
There's no way she died or vanished at the gravel lot. These guys wouldn't have put her in their presence afterward if that's the case.

Imagine CR bringing a dead girl to those apartments:

Others:
"OK yeah we'll jeapordize ourselves and lie and cover up for you too man".

Not a chance.

--------

I believe her scent ended there because that's where CR put her on his back.
 
Wow, what a revelation that is...that there was a rowdy party at Smallwood too and that ZO was there, and that LS didn't care for ZO. So she leaves with DR to go to 5N. At 3:00 when they go back to Smallwood, ZO is still there and a fight ensues. Perhaps they were fighting over LS. And because she didn't care for ZO, she leaves again...this time with CR even though she is in bad shape. Perhaps ZO did lay in wait for her to leave, and intercepted her and did something to her and disposed of her body. ZO's friend AB meets the description of the mystery man. And maybe they took her away in a friend's construction vehicle (aka white truck). Maybe the reason all the boys are staying hush hush is because ZO has threatened them and they all are afraid of him, not to mention they all have a part in her demise. Thoughts???

Most definitely a possibility. ZO, unlike the rest of them, is an Indiana native, much more familiar with the areas, and was described by one of the PI's as a "tough kid"
 
Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but did one of the recent articles confirm that the dogs lost her scent at the gravel lot? Or is this still just an unconfirmed rumor (that IIRC, started here at WS)??

I know there were dogs involved in the searches, but I've never seen anything legit that confirms what results, if any, they came up with.
 
Or even if ZO didn't intercept her after she left JR's, maybe he was partially responsible for whatever may have killed her...such as the drugs she took at Smallwood earlier in the evening before leaving with DR to go to 5N. Maybe the 2nd phone call was to ZO (someone who she had seen earlier at Smallwood so the story goes). But I doubt seriously that LS made the calls...I'm sure it was JR letting ZO know they had a big problem or better yet calling him to see if "things were being taken care of" or "she's ready for pickup or something like that".

Unlike the others, he wouldn't have to go to much trouble to get the job done.
Just take her home for a little boat ride. Then the legend is fulfilled. The police would never ever look here.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&gs_nf=1&qe=ODI0MyBDbGVhcndhdGVyIFBvaW50ZSBJbmRpYW5hcG9saXMsIElu&qesig=inQidigyHuFopRJTRH_7qw&pkc=AFgZ2tkUPdJTPIwx_PKRkZaOSZqXO_nHEcarwPnO_VtjNV0zrgOZvKaszGeyMJYcqVXbwm1G6e__SR-X8IMXvVhtw-uGvW2A2g&cp=39&gs_id=8&xhr=t&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4GWYE_enUS244US245&gs_upl=&bav=on.2%2cor.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.%2ccf.osb&ion=1&biw=1424&bih=777&wrapid=tljp1330275272114012&q=8243+Clearwater+Pointe+Indianapolis%2c+In&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x886b52afbd4fec7d:0xbe9deb2d82039f17%2c8243+Clearwater+Pointe%2c+Indianapolis%2c+IN+46240&gl=us&ei=0WNKT5DzMuO0sQLq6OSrDQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CB8Q8gEwAA

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=7zwv0easdqsp5a7&thumb=6
 
I remember reading about an old case from Flint, Michigan. Dorothy Schneider was kidnapped, raped, murdered, and sunk in the water. The hero led searches, donated money, consoled the grieving, and made public speeches. But, the hero was really the killer of Dorothy Schneider. This is one of the strangest crime stories in history.
I suspect Lauren's case will have a strange twist as well. I believe many have been fooled. We'll see.

This case is interesting because it is full of strange twists. Exactly where does your Hero fit into the 3:00am to 4:15 time frame?
 
This case is interesting because it is full of strange twists. Exactly where does your Hero fit into the 3:00am to 4:15 time frame?
This is the first lake I would have searched because the POI lives there. It still needs searched. If Lauren Spierer is found there? Someone will have plenty of time to fill us in on the details. Right now, we have stories and a legend. It appears only one Indiana POI could carry out the legend.
 
I'd like to talk about the new resurgence of focus on JW, as it seems he was out of the limelight for a good while, and the focus was on exclusively CR, JR, and MB.

A few days ago - before a lot of new details came out - I made a post in which I mentioned that JW had been cleared by Mr. Spierer. However, as it would happen, I just saw two new interviews with Mr. Spierer himself and Bo Dietel saying that JW is still not sharing all he knows and is giving conflicting statements.

This is very telling. In a sense, it makes him MOST suspect out of all of them - given that although he was supposedly not with any of them that night and not caught up in any of the chaos, and was cozily at home watching basketball, he STILL choose to retain a lawyer and not make any public statements. (As did HT, for instance). It makes sense why CR, JR and MB hired lawyers - there is hard evidence that they were present with Lauren in her last known hours, as well as evidence they had been doing hard drugs and drinking. One could see how they could be unfairly accused of things and why their parents would have wanted to hire attorney's for them. But if JW was supposedly in a completely different location and went to bed early that night with nothing to hide, it makes his reticence and lack of communication all the more curious.

There is one final note that probably doesn't have anything to do with anything and is just the psychiatrist in me coming out: In the days and weeks immediately following her disappearance, I checked JW's Facebook status updates hourly, and he was changing them constantly. "Baby, I need you". "Whoever took Lauren, you will Pay". "It's been one week, come home". "I ned you back babe, you were the sunlight of my life". etc, etc, etc. Is it just me, or does this seem a LITTLE obsessive? I would think that is one truly lost one's gf, or was truly determined to find out what happened, you somehow would not be posting things like this. There would be no need to constantly share with the cyber world. It's almost like a cover-up, somehow, an attempt at seeming uber-concerned.

But that's just a VERY out there 2 cents, based on how I might react if my gf went missing.

Good observation. However...
If JW wanted LS so badly why didn't he meet up with her?

One thing that is frustrating is that clearly most of these people were into the college party life, especially at year end. But a lot of people seem to have trouble accepting how pervasive partying is, and that drugs are the norm. LS appears as such a beautiful, happy, and decent young woman that it's very difficult for most parents to see her grinding up and snorting powder off a bathroom sink. To clear things I really would like to hear one of LS's closer friends, even JW be frank about these things. If you passed LS a few lines of coke would she do it without batting an eye? I mean no disrespect by this line of questions. It's just important to deal reality to get anywhere. If it were possible to rule out drugs and say emphatically she never would touch anything other than alcohol or her heart meds, then certain things would be less likely. Given these people and their reputations, it does appear to me that LS not only would accept lines of coke, she was wanting to celebrate and was seeking out something. At the same time, it may not have been coke - she may have been more adventurous than that, or could have been lied to or slipped something. It's been discussed several times before that is a reason why someone would cover up what happened to her.

There were statements that JW and LS were supposed to eventually be together that night. His falling asleep has been believable and of course could be a lie. Yet, why show up at 3:30 to 4:00? JR and JW apparently were studying for degrees in the same field, they had to know each other.
So calls at 4:15 , one to DR and one to ?? If that call was to JW, then why would he not answer OR call back? I forgot the time that JW started calling LS (that has to be verifiable through phone records) but I think it wasn't for several hours later. JW was supposed to get together that night with LS, but there is no indication he showed up at her place in those wee hours - He would on Smallwood candid camera. If he was restless and wanted to find her, would he not first go to her apt? would he not be calling her cell phone. If someone like the ZO & company tipped JW off about what they saw... there would be phone records of that, right? Would it make sense that they would walk to JW's and tell him in person to avoid using a phone?
Then instead of JW using a phone to see if she's ok, he nimbly lurks around looking for her, avoiding smallwood and cameras? This is too convoluted.

Now, if that mystery call at 4:15 was to JW I might be inclined to consider that LS walked to his place, or tried to as some have speculated. He lives a few blocks to the SE of the corner JR says he saw her approaching (not that I believe him). I can not believe she was coherent enough to do that. But for argument's sake, lets say she did... She heads to JW's from 11th and College at 4:20 to 4:30. How long would it take? Is there a route where she would not be seen on camera? Had she ever walked there before? Had she ever walked there before in the middle of the night?
Would anyone have seen or heard her as she got to JW's other than him? Did police have dogs check JW's and immediate area?

I just don't see it. But I will agree that JW's posts do seem like he was doing so on purpose. My take on that is, like FB in general... people tend to post what they want other people to see, because they know other people are looking. A totally innocent person may reason that they may look guilty if they don't post something. Perhaps close friends of JW would know how sincere his posts sounded. He certainly seemed to have HT thinking he was wonderful. Maybe his charm is/was a front. There should be enough people that knew him that could comment.

The BF would naturally be the one with the strongest motives.
Yet, nothing about this guy indicates that he would have suddenly snapped in a jealous rage.

It's of course a valid theory, there just isn't much to support it.
 
This case is interesting because it is full of strange twists. Exactly where does your Hero fit into the 3:00am to 4:15 time frame?

Jacobite is misinformed! The only hero in the case (1928) was a man who had a vivid dream that his pastor committed the crime. The pastor finally admitted to it and police assumed the dreamer was an accomplice. A farmer also was a witness to the pastor disposing the body.

The first case of a medium solving a murder on record. Not as many twists as assumed. No donations, no media appearances.


While I typically disagree with many of Jacobite's rants I will say the ZO theory is plausible. He had goons to help in AB and BB. His dad is $$$ and I wouldn't doubt if half the state including politicos get their commercial furniture from old RO aka Dicky. I wonder if Claudia knows her boo ZO might have skeletons in his closet?
 
At this point the case to me comes down to two things. A) who was the 2nd call from JR made to B) who had access to a car.

A) maybe the 2nd call from JR was to JW to say, "come get LS she's in bad shape". or was the call made to ZO to find out details of the Smallwood event and pass along info to JW about LS???

B) JW did drive his roommate to class the next AM. If I stand correct their was confusion about the time and potential recantment by JW early on about the time. perhaps he botched his statement. Defintely remember hearing parts of a breakup get back together with LS and JW. Perhaps he was jealour from being back burnered perhaps he felt compelled to go get her and she died innocently within his care. Maybe when seeing her he snapped.

Did he have his car? Was his car searched??? Did he premeditated the events by taking a friends or roomies car unbeknownst to them???

Yeah, that other call from JR's is bugging me. LE must still be investigating that one or they would have said who the call was to. I agree if that call was to JW it would open a lot of other possibilities.
 
The new article states the second call was to a male friend who was with Lauren earlier in the night. I think it was someone she was with when she was watching the game before even leaving Smallwood earlier in the night. Not sure how relevant the call is to the case or not. LE might have a reason for keeping the name hidden, but it was revealed it was just a male friend.

They are keeping it secret because at this point it is relevant.

There certainly are a lot of shadow POI's. People she was with earlier in the night like when and where? AT JR's pregame? At smallwood before Pregame?
Was there ever a list of people who were at Smallwood before met up with DR and went to JR's for pregame? Those people would all be on camera.

I've never seen a list of just how many people were partying at JR's pregame (8 to 10 PI's said) So, we have JR, CR, LS, DR and ????
 
They are keeping it secret because at this point it is relevant.

or because it is totally irrelevant, because the person is not a POI, didn't even answer his phone and therefore has no reason to be named in the media... ? Either is possible.
 
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