Exactly. Standing beside the parents and not being afraid of media attention - along with sister, roommate, and old friends. Whats more is that he is supposedly a "long time" boyfriend, who knew Lauren and her family even before them came to IU. He may very well not be guilty of anything, but there has to be an explanation for his shutting himself out of the whole thing.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27
- Thread starter bessie
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Exactly. Standing beside the parents and not being afraid of media attention - along with sister, roommate, and old friends. Whats more is that he is supposedly a "long time" boyfriend, who knew Lauren and her family even before them came to IU. He may very well not be guilty of anything, but there has to be an explanation for his shutting himself out of the whole thing.
Who's to say how someone would/ should act in the days following a tragic and unexplainable loss...
My thoughts too.
I'd like to talk about the new resurgence of focus on JW, as it seems he was out of the limelight for a good while, and the focus was on exclusively CR, JR, and MB.
A few days ago - before a lot of new details came out - I made a post in which I mentioned that JW had been cleared by Mr. Spierer. However, as it would happen, I just saw two new interviews with Mr. Spierer himself and Bo Dietel saying that JW is still not sharing all he knows and is giving conflicting statements.
This is very telling. In a sense, it makes him MOST suspect out of all of them - given that although he was supposedly not with any of them that night and not caught up in any of the chaos, and was cozily at home watching basketball, he STILL choose to retain a lawyer and not make any public statements. (As did HT, for instance). It makes sense why CR, JR and MB hired lawyers - there is hard evidence that they were present with Lauren in her last known hours, as well as evidence they had been doing hard drugs and drinking. One could see how they could be unfairly accused of things and why their parents would have wanted to hire attorney's for them. But if JW was supposedly in a completely different location and went to bed early that night with nothing to hide, it makes his reticence and lack of communication all the more curious.
There is one final note that probably doesn't have anything to do with anything and is just the psychiatrist in me coming out: In the days and weeks immediately following her disappearance, I checked JW's Facebook status updates hourly, and he was changing them constantly. "Baby, I need you". "Whoever took Lauren, you will Pay". "It's been one week, come home". "I ned you back babe, you were the sunlight of my life". etc, etc, etc. Is it just me, or does this seem a LITTLE obsessive? I would think that is one truly lost one's gf, or was truly determined to find out what happened, you somehow would not be posting things like this. There would be no need to constantly share with the cyber world. It's almost like a cover-up, somehow, an attempt at seeming uber-concerned.
But that's just a VERY out there 2 cents, based on how I might react if my gf went missing.
Good point about the posting-i myself am an over poster on fb but when I'm having real problems that's the last place i go to say anything
A) maybe the 2nd call from JR was to JW to say, "come get LS she's in bad shape". or was the call made to ZO to find out details of the Smallwood event and pass along info to JW about LS???
The new article states the second call was to a male friend who was with Lauren earlier in the night. I think it was someone she was with when she was watching the game before even leaving Smallwood earlier in the night. Not sure how relevant the call is to the case or not. LE might have a reason for keeping the name hidden, but it was revealed it was just a male friend.
Bo Dietl seems to be pointing the finger at JW, the boyfriend.
http://www.lohud.com/article/20120603/NEWS02/306030045/?nclick_check=1
This has been my suspicion since Day 1.
At this point, it seems LS was possibly involved with more than 1 guy,
and you would expect the "boyfriend" would naturally be jealous.
He doesn't have an alibi for when she went missing.
He says he "went to sleep" when 100% for a fact he would have known his g/f was out with other men.
How believable is that???
http://www.lohud.com/article/20120603/NEWS02/306030045/?nclick_check=1
This has been my suspicion since Day 1.
At this point, it seems LS was possibly involved with more than 1 guy,
and you would expect the "boyfriend" would naturally be jealous.
He doesn't have an alibi for when she went missing.
He says he "went to sleep" when 100% for a fact he would have known his g/f was out with other men.
How believable is that???
Also isn't it possible that the dogs lost track of her scent because CR picked her up and carried her on his back?
And since we are talking about a gravel lot and her not having any shoes on, it seems resonable he would have done that.
Couldn't have felt good walking on stones w/ bare feet.
And since we are talking about a gravel lot and her not having any shoes on, it seems resonable he would have done that.
Couldn't have felt good walking on stones w/ bare feet.
I'd like to talk about the new resurgence of focus on JW, as it seems he was out of the limelight for a good while, and the focus was on exclusively CR, JR, and MB.
A few days ago - before a lot of new details came out - I made a post in which I mentioned that JW had been cleared by Mr. Spierer. However, as it would happen, I just saw two new interviews with Mr. Spierer himself and Bo Dietel saying that JW is still not sharing all he knows and is giving conflicting statements.
This is very telling. In a sense, it makes him MOST suspect out of all of them - given that although he was supposedly not with any of them that night and not caught up in any of the chaos, and was cozily at home watching basketball, he STILL choose to retain a lawyer and not make any public statements. (As did HT, for instance). It makes sense why CR, JR and MB hired lawyers - there is hard evidence that they were present with Lauren in her last known hours, as well as evidence they had been doing hard drugs and drinking. One could see how they could be unfairly accused of things and why their parents would have wanted to hire attorney's for them. But if JW was supposedly in a completely different location and went to bed early that night with nothing to hide, it makes his reticence and lack of communication all the more curious.
There is one final note that probably doesn't have anything to do with anything and is just the psychiatrist in me coming out: In the days and weeks immediately following her disappearance, I checked JW's Facebook status updates hourly, and he was changing them constantly. "Baby, I need you". "Whoever took Lauren, you will Pay". "It's been one week, come home". "I ned you back babe, you were the sunlight of my life". etc, etc, etc. Is it just me, or does this seem a LITTLE obsessive? I would think that is one truly lost one's gf, or was truly determined to find out what happened, you somehow would not be posting things like this. There would be no need to constantly share with the cyber world. It's almost like a cover-up, somehow, an attempt at seeming uber-concerned.
But that's just a VERY out there 2 cents, based on how I might react if my gf went missing.
Not only that but also it's clear that LS was involved with other men.
If you just found out your girlfriend had been cheating on you,
would you really be putting your emotions out there like that?
You'd probably just be in a state of shock.
"Another revelation JR saw her getting a black eye, so he knew she had been injured or fallen. Another reason, to the piles of other reasons not to let her leave so soon or alone. Medical Experts, how long does it take for a black eye to start forming? I thought a black eye took several hours to form, so wondering how that is possible. Shouldn't it instead be all red and puffy"
In response to how soon a black eye appears, my daughter had surgery on Thursday morning (forehead/hairline area). There was swelling and redness on Thursday afternoon. On Friday, her eye was almost swollen shut, red, and puffy. On Saturday, a little less swelling and some bruising. And finally on Sunday, she had a true black eye.
In response to how soon a black eye appears, my daughter had surgery on Thursday morning (forehead/hairline area). There was swelling and redness on Thursday afternoon. On Friday, her eye was almost swollen shut, red, and puffy. On Saturday, a little less swelling and some bruising. And finally on Sunday, she had a true black eye.
Let's simplify-
When you're lining up suspects it's hard to discount the 5 North guys. The odd thing there is the most suspicious one of the bunch (CR) is alibied by 2 other people including one person who put himself as the last one to report seeing her that morning (JR). I have a hard time thinking any of them would cover for another, assuming they know what really happened, unless they were somehow involved too. So that means it's either a conspiracy among 2 or 3 of them, or JR alone. I still haven't heard when their dumpster was checked and emptied, and whether it was under any video surveillance, but that could easily answer how they'd dispose of a body.
As for the boyfriend... I've always had problems with how quickly he went from just trying to find her to deciding she was a missing person and that something had happened and he needed to involve police and her parents. And to me, finding out her phone was at Kilroy's would've been a relief because that would explain why she wasn't answering. One way to look at it is almost like he knew she was really missing and so was ready to move down the checklist awfully quickly... especially calling the parents so soon and worrying them. All this during a period where she easily could be staying at someone else's place, out shopping, etc.. By the time he got in the apartment how did he know she hadn't already been home and left? That right there is why I could never see him being cleared as a POI unless he has a rock solid alibi.
ZO. Now that we know he threw the punch and why it does add another layer to the case. You'd think if he (or any of that group) followed it would be in video tape somewhere. It does add the possibility he followed or suspected he knew where they were going and brings up a laid in wait scenario. It puts him into a potential jilted suitor category. Also, he becomes a potential conduit with JW for word to filter back as to what was going on very early that morning.
Random abduction still seems far down the list due to the limited window of opportunity and statistical probability. But, all this talk about her condition does make her seem an easy target. It also raises the possibility she could've stumbled into the street and been hit by a vehicle.
I can't quite get past the fact that if the 5 North guys were involved that they managed this so cleanly. I'd expect physical evidence and conflicting statements to have derailed them fairly quickly. I'd also have expected the police to focus on them fairly tightly too. It makes me think they've at least presented a plausible story, little evidence of a crime, and there are other PsOI who can't be excluded to the point it's taken emphasis off CR/MB/JR.
When you're lining up suspects it's hard to discount the 5 North guys. The odd thing there is the most suspicious one of the bunch (CR) is alibied by 2 other people including one person who put himself as the last one to report seeing her that morning (JR). I have a hard time thinking any of them would cover for another, assuming they know what really happened, unless they were somehow involved too. So that means it's either a conspiracy among 2 or 3 of them, or JR alone. I still haven't heard when their dumpster was checked and emptied, and whether it was under any video surveillance, but that could easily answer how they'd dispose of a body.
As for the boyfriend... I've always had problems with how quickly he went from just trying to find her to deciding she was a missing person and that something had happened and he needed to involve police and her parents. And to me, finding out her phone was at Kilroy's would've been a relief because that would explain why she wasn't answering. One way to look at it is almost like he knew she was really missing and so was ready to move down the checklist awfully quickly... especially calling the parents so soon and worrying them. All this during a period where she easily could be staying at someone else's place, out shopping, etc.. By the time he got in the apartment how did he know she hadn't already been home and left? That right there is why I could never see him being cleared as a POI unless he has a rock solid alibi.
ZO. Now that we know he threw the punch and why it does add another layer to the case. You'd think if he (or any of that group) followed it would be in video tape somewhere. It does add the possibility he followed or suspected he knew where they were going and brings up a laid in wait scenario. It puts him into a potential jilted suitor category. Also, he becomes a potential conduit with JW for word to filter back as to what was going on very early that morning.
Random abduction still seems far down the list due to the limited window of opportunity and statistical probability. But, all this talk about her condition does make her seem an easy target. It also raises the possibility she could've stumbled into the street and been hit by a vehicle.
I can't quite get past the fact that if the 5 North guys were involved that they managed this so cleanly. I'd expect physical evidence and conflicting statements to have derailed them fairly quickly. I'd also have expected the police to focus on them fairly tightly too. It makes me think they've at least presented a plausible story, little evidence of a crime, and there are other PsOI who can't be excluded to the point it's taken emphasis off CR/MB/JR.
Not only that but also it's clear that LS was involved with other men.
If you just found out your girlfriend had been cheating on you,
would you really be putting your emotions out there like that?
You'd probably just be in a state of shock.
I don't think LS was cheating on JW. A lot of girls her age have boyfriends and male friends. CR may have wanted more, but that doesn't mean that she did. She had a number of male friends ... DR and JR being two of them. CR was a horrible choice for a friend, but she didn't know him well enough to know that.
IMO, it's possible that JW lawyered up because the boyfriend is often suspected ... and because he'd been in LS' apartment earlier the day he reported her missing. He may have also realized that his alibi wasn't the strongest. I do find his FB messages a bit off, but he was under a tremendous amount of stress.
It may have to do with the fact that Lauren went to CR's while everyone else what, went to Sports, and then they showed up? Maybe JR supplied drugs to CR that were done at his place. Or even at Sports, since people do coke in the bathrooms there.
That could be. The PI acted like the POIs wouldn't have been concerned about drugs alone, since it's a common occurrence on campus. But the POIs probably weren't thinking straight, either. Sometimes I wonder if JR impulsively said what he did ... and now can't backtrack out of it. Or is afraid to?
That could be. The PI acted like the POIs wouldn't have been concerned about drugs alone, since it's a common occurrence on campus. But the POIs probably weren't thinking straight, either. Sometimes I wonder if JR impulsively said what he did ... and now can't backtrack out of it. Or is afraid to?
I don't get why Bo Deitl deduces it is unlikely this is linked to drugs. No one is afraid to admit they use drugs but I bet these kids are less forthcoming about where they buy it.
I don't understand why it isn't plausible that LS was hidden to avoid evidence that might open investigation into a lucrative drug network. This is where person X in Verivitas scenario works for me. Or as you say JR being guided by fear.
jerseygirl48
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
- Messages
- 116
- Reaction score
- 0
I'm as confused as ever. The very simplicity of the boys' stories makes me (occasionally) think they might be telling the truth. Someone would have had to have been sober/coherent enough to put a plan together quickly if she died from alcohol poisoning/drug OD/related injuries - and they've been extremely lucky that no one ever "broke" or that she hasn't been found.
I do believe affluent kids would be driven by the need to cover-up their complicity .... but could they have pulled this off?
The fact that Bo Dietl hasn't ruled out a random abduction makes me think they don't know much more than we do ....
I haven't been able to come down completely on one side or the other. The recent reports, however, make me believe she would have not been able to walk out of that house alone ... So I guess I'm leaning back toward the boys.
I do believe affluent kids would be driven by the need to cover-up their complicity .... but could they have pulled this off?
The fact that Bo Dietl hasn't ruled out a random abduction makes me think they don't know much more than we do ....
I haven't been able to come down completely on one side or the other. The recent reports, however, make me believe she would have not been able to walk out of that house alone ... So I guess I'm leaning back toward the boys.
I don't get why Bo Deitl deduces it is unlikely this is linked to drugs. No one is afraid to admit they use drugs but I bet these kids are less forthcoming about where they buy it.
I don't understand why it isn't plausible that LS was hidden to avoid evidence that might open investigation into a lucrative drug network. This is where person X in Verivitas scenario works for me. Or as you say JR being guided by fear.
It could depend on how close they're connected (and if a DD and/or a person X is involved). I grew up in a small, conservative town northeast of where JR is from. A young couple opened up a "smoke shop" on the edge of town, in an area called "under the bridge." That was pretty unbelievable, actually, but more unbelievably, they were later found murdered (drug-related).
That was the kind of thing that happened in Detroit, we thought, not the suburbs. Looking back on it, my "safe" county (home to the Oakland County Child Killer, I might add) was not safe at all. I'm willing to consider almost anything, TBH.
One of the very bad things about illegal drugs is the creepy people you have to know to get these drugs. The larger the quantity, THE CREEPIER THE PEOPLE. You might be able to buy a small amount of coke from a college buddy and not put yourself in danger. But, we are talking about a bag being found by a police search of Lauren's apartment. Maybe planted there. She now becomes connected with someone who is involved in organized crime in order to have that amount. It is the Eastern European Mafia who are bringing this crime to INDIANA. They are now very powerful in the Hoosier State. I would not put it past these guys to sell a girl like Lauren into slavery and cover it up with an OD story. The Eastern European Mafia is certainly involved
in white slavery and they prefer little blondes.
As far as disposing of a body, I'd think someone from Indiana would be more able to pull this off, especially when he was over that night, lives on a lake, has a boat, and has a garage where he can find hardware to sink a body in his lake.
Regardless of what happened, I think the girl was caught in a trap from which she found no escape. She came under some very bad influences in Bloomington and it's sad because she was one week away from escaping it and being back in NYC with people who truly loved her. The FBI REALLY NEEDS TO JUMP BACK IN AND TAKE OVER.
in white slavery and they prefer little blondes.
As far as disposing of a body, I'd think someone from Indiana would be more able to pull this off, especially when he was over that night, lives on a lake, has a boat, and has a garage where he can find hardware to sink a body in his lake.
Regardless of what happened, I think the girl was caught in a trap from which she found no escape. She came under some very bad influences in Bloomington and it's sad because she was one week away from escaping it and being back in NYC with people who truly loved her. The FBI REALLY NEEDS TO JUMP BACK IN AND TAKE OVER.
Since CR and LS stopped twice to sit down after ZO punched CR at SW, I think it means they weren't afraid of them coming after them. If ZO and his boys were following them from SW then why would they stop and sit down on the steps.
elmorejames
New Member
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2011
- Messages
- 176
- Reaction score
- -27
One of the very bad things about illegal drugs is the creepy people you have to know to get these drugs. The larger the quantity, THE CREEPIER THE PEOPLE. You might be able to buy a small amount of coke from a college buddy and not put yourself in danger. But, we are talking about a bag being found by a police search of Lauren's apartment. Maybe planted there. She now becomes connected with someone who is involved in organized crime in order to have that amount. It is the Eastern European Mafia who are bringing this crime to INDIANA. They are now very powerful in the Hoosier State. I would not put it past these guys to sell a girl like Lauren into slavery and cover it up with an OD story. The Eastern European Mafia is certainly involved in white slavery and they prefer little blondes.
As far as disposing of a body, I'd think someone from Indiana would be more able to pull this off, especially when he was over that night, lives on a lake, has a boat, and has a garage where he can find hardware to sink a body in his lake.
Regardless of what happened, I think the girl was caught in a trap from which she found no escape. She came under some very bad influences in Bloomington and it's sad because she was one week away from escaping it and being back in NYC with people who truly loved her. The FBI REALLY NEEDS TO JUMP BACK IN AND TAKE OVER.
Who was over that night that fits your description. I have my ideas but I wouldn't necessarily say he "was over". Drop some initials brother!
Mergatroid
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2011
- Messages
- 28
- Reaction score
- 0
The new details in the recent articles:
. LS hits her head to the ground while seated on the steps,
. LS falls down while walking and doesn’t break her fall with hands,
. needs to sit down for rest breaks with CR from Smallwood to 5North,
. CR giving LS “piggyback” ride
. CR “pulling” LS …
make me wonder if LS was having a Long QT Syndrome (LQTS) attack(s) on the way back to 5North. Until now I had solely attributed her condition to too much alcohol/drugs.
On the Boston Scientific website, the signs and symptoms of LQTS-related arrhythmias include “unexplained fainting or seizures, drowning or near drowning (due to fainting while swimming), sudden cardiac arrest and sudden death.”
Did LS “faint while walking” instead of “blacking out”?
On the latest video, a PI states LS was alive, but not necessarily well on the way back to 5North.
What if LS was dying (sorry) on the walk back to 5North?
If so, MB/CR or MB/CR/JR might have had trouble on their hands as early as 3am.
Perhaps they called in Person X (aka Mystery Man) to help remove LS from the scene.
Did Person X/Mystery Man have a car?
Was Person X/Mystery Man “playing her off” as alive (but she was in fact no longer) in case anybody on the streets noticed them?
Does anyone remember if the bar manager heard LS speak when she saw the Mystery Man at 3:38am? (Or did witness only hear the MM saying something like, “do you want to go home?” … can’t remember the details)
Does anyone remember exactly where the bar manager said she saw the Mystery Man at 3:38a?
I’m wondering if LS was in her last moments in the gravel lot just past the last camera … did CR pull her when she couldn’t walk?
Did CR then leave LS there and run to get help from MB or help from MB/JR to figure out next steps thinking she had OD’d?
Chances are CR/MB did not know LS had LQTS since they’d known each other for a week.
They might have mistakenly thought she had OD’d and felt responsible if they’d done/supplied her with drugs earlier … so they plotted a cover up.
What was the comment CR made the next morning, something like, "Has anyone seen a little blond girl?" ... that comment has always struck me as so coy. Did CR say it to JR? Seems like it could be something said to "solidify" the big pretense.
Also, if LS did die in the gravel lot, there would be no DNA evidence at CRs or JRs.
Still just thinking out loud.
Sorry to have typed some of this…it is so dark.
Peace to the Spierer’s.
. LS hits her head to the ground while seated on the steps,
. LS falls down while walking and doesn’t break her fall with hands,
. needs to sit down for rest breaks with CR from Smallwood to 5North,
. CR giving LS “piggyback” ride
. CR “pulling” LS …
make me wonder if LS was having a Long QT Syndrome (LQTS) attack(s) on the way back to 5North. Until now I had solely attributed her condition to too much alcohol/drugs.
On the Boston Scientific website, the signs and symptoms of LQTS-related arrhythmias include “unexplained fainting or seizures, drowning or near drowning (due to fainting while swimming), sudden cardiac arrest and sudden death.”
Did LS “faint while walking” instead of “blacking out”?
On the latest video, a PI states LS was alive, but not necessarily well on the way back to 5North.
What if LS was dying (sorry) on the walk back to 5North?
If so, MB/CR or MB/CR/JR might have had trouble on their hands as early as 3am.
Perhaps they called in Person X (aka Mystery Man) to help remove LS from the scene.
Did Person X/Mystery Man have a car?
Was Person X/Mystery Man “playing her off” as alive (but she was in fact no longer) in case anybody on the streets noticed them?
Does anyone remember if the bar manager heard LS speak when she saw the Mystery Man at 3:38am? (Or did witness only hear the MM saying something like, “do you want to go home?” … can’t remember the details)
Does anyone remember exactly where the bar manager said she saw the Mystery Man at 3:38a?
I’m wondering if LS was in her last moments in the gravel lot just past the last camera … did CR pull her when she couldn’t walk?
Did CR then leave LS there and run to get help from MB or help from MB/JR to figure out next steps thinking she had OD’d?
Chances are CR/MB did not know LS had LQTS since they’d known each other for a week.
They might have mistakenly thought she had OD’d and felt responsible if they’d done/supplied her with drugs earlier … so they plotted a cover up.
What was the comment CR made the next morning, something like, "Has anyone seen a little blond girl?" ... that comment has always struck me as so coy. Did CR say it to JR? Seems like it could be something said to "solidify" the big pretense.
Also, if LS did die in the gravel lot, there would be no DNA evidence at CRs or JRs.
Still just thinking out loud.
Sorry to have typed some of this…it is so dark.
Peace to the Spierer’s.
Since CR and LS stopped twice to sit down after ZO punched CR at SW, I think it means they weren't afraid of them coming after them. If ZO and his boys were following them from SW then why would they stop and sit down on the steps.
I too found this very strange! If someone had just given me a whipping, the last thing I would do is go to the very place where I'd be asking for another thrashing.
Stick you nose in this case, you will discover, you don't know who's friends with who. You don't know who talks to who. Tell someone something, you don't know who they will tell. And, who's on what side? It's kinda creepy.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
DNASolves
Online statistics
- Members online
- 155
- Guests online
- 1,337
- Total visitors
- 1,492
Totals may include hidden visitors.