Tr.
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Agreed...drugs make people do crazy things they may otherwise not consider.
So, maybe like HT said "It just went too far this time".
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27
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Agreed...drugs make people do crazy things they may otherwise not consider.
So, maybe like HT said "It just went too far this time".
One group of friends is doing all the talking. And, unfortunately, Lauren's voice has been silenced. So, it is difficult to find the truth. What if this is a rape-murder? What if we let the bad guy get away? What if someone you love is next? There are many who would like to see this case swept under the rug, and they will win if we just shut up.
Can't disagree. And, have no love for the drug culture or drug dealers. It makes me sad to read that Lauren tried that. Drugs are not safe especially if one has Long QT. Not sure she died from drugs though. Doesn't make sense to hide her like this. Why not turn in that secret tip? Maybe someone used his own property and he can't turn in a tip because the location will betray his identity.
PlainJaneDoe
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You know, that has been on my mind. Like if there isn't something that you believe will give your ID away, or unless you believe that all LE needs is a body to take you down, why not just give her family the peace they have been begging for. Let it be just another unsolved mysterious death and just let them bring her home. (Not that I don't want justice for her. I am just suggesting that unless you believe that her remains will lead LE to you somehow, why not just give it up.) I know that is a messed-up way to think about the case. I just don't get it.
Does anyone really believe a secret tip will remain 'secret', or that an anonymous tip will remain anonymous?
I just can't imagine in this day and age how forensics wouldn't turn that info inside out looking for the provider.
And then you have the CSI effect to consider- Where people think LE can perform miracles with next to nothing and go from a microscopic thread to tracking it to your home. So even if the tip lines and PO boxes really were anonymous, anyone worried about getting caught would avoid them no matter how much they wanted to try and erase a burden from their mind.... simply because they believe forensics would be able to catch up with them. ...Just like on CSI.
I just can't imagine in this day and age how forensics wouldn't turn that info inside out looking for the provider.
And then you have the CSI effect to consider- Where people think LE can perform miracles with next to nothing and go from a microscopic thread to tracking it to your home. So even if the tip lines and PO boxes really were anonymous, anyone worried about getting caught would avoid them no matter how much they wanted to try and erase a burden from their mind.... simply because they believe forensics would be able to catch up with them. ...Just like on CSI.
I'd be curious to hear as well.
I'd assume it to be that with confirmation he threw the punch and was allegedly looking to protect LS, but then her leaving with CR would seem to imply she was uninterested in his help (or protection). So it starts to setup a scenario where he could be a jilted suitor. A wannabe boyfriend that she wasn't interested in. Plus the punch makes him look like a hot head. And he likely knew where they went. Being in the area was normal for him I guess so him waiting on her where she'd be likely to appear or even coincidentally coming across her wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.
And then the rest would be the same type of story that's happened too many times- Girl rejects boy and boy snaps and bad things happen.
We don't know what video evidence or witness/alibi evidence might exist that would discredit a theory like that.
Maybe Jacobite has a different thought though.
"Her body is supposedly under the new apartment building that was just built. Apparently they laid concrete the next day."
http://silentsender.blogspot.com/2011/06/lauren-spierer-missing-send-anonymous.html
That was from the site above btw posted today...
Not that I lend alot of credence to anonymous posters, but does anyone know if there was really concrete work done next door the following day of Lauren's disappearance? I know there was alot of construction going on at that time in Bloomington, just hadn't heard that it was next door before now?
http://silentsender.blogspot.com/2011/06/lauren-spierer-missing-send-anonymous.html
That was from the site above btw posted today...
Not that I lend alot of credence to anonymous posters, but does anyone know if there was really concrete work done next door the following day of Lauren's disappearance? I know there was alot of construction going on at that time in Bloomington, just hadn't heard that it was next door before now?
Mophebius
IDK if any concrete was poured the next day, but the construction site next to 5 North appears to have had all the concrete poured long before, and they were working on the outside limestone facade when I took the below pics in the photo's folder of this thread. The street however, had some sewer pipe being put in.
IDK if any concrete was poured the next day, but the construction site next to 5 North appears to have had all the concrete poured long before, and they were working on the outside limestone facade when I took the below pics in the photo's folder of this thread. The street however, had some sewer pipe being put in.
phantomthought
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I would put the Bloomington Police at the top of the list of people that seam to just want this case to go away.Not because of some involvement but just simple to hide their inability to solve this case.I have never seen a PD that has made less of an effort to get publicity for an unsolved case.I have never seen a PD that seams more concerned with protecting the people under suspicion than solving the case.I have never seen a PD that has video of the same day the person goes missing yet refuses to release any of it.Most PD will release some info when a case goes cold in an attempt to drum up interest and hopefully get a tip.But I do not expect it in this case unfortunately.I think it is time to expect more from the people who's job it is to solve these cases.
Just a check-in. I follow a couple of things here on and off, but I actually found this site when Lauren went missing. I read here a lot for a long time, and now just check in. Glad to hear that recently there was more information, and so glad that this forum remains focused of finding Lauren.
OldSteve
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Agree with your feeling about drugs and Lauren...
Just a thought - Perhaps if any had sex with her and were afraid DNA was left and it might appear as if it was not consensual...
OldSteve
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That she was left in a construction site that got built over is what I think most likely happened. Might have even placed her thinking she would be found and it would appear she had stumbled into it because of being under the influence. Once they realized she hadn't been found and would never be found - those involved clammed up all the more...
I will comply. But, first I ask that anyone who has knowledge or belief of his innocence to please speak up here and now. Anyone who can clear any POI should speak up. And, if you know where Lauren is then definitely speak up because we want answers a year ago.
Jupiter812
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The post by "anonymous" is either someone trying to start an urban legend or, much less likely, someone trying to throw off the search. The bypass road construction project on the east side of Bloomington would have been a much less risky place to dispose of a body (I feel sick just saying that) AND that project butted right up against the backyards of a bunch of fraternities. Wonder if one of them was Acacia.
Let's hope the dogs were sent to all the construction zones, buildings and roads alike, asap.
VeryVeritas
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Really? Someone is talking? You mean other than the shards of sound bytes someone is cooperating? Care to share?
Perhaps I was referring to the sources in the LoHud article about Lauren on her last night. And, that certainly is not an accurate picture of the Lauren whom her friends in NYC were waiting for to come home.
VeryVeritas
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I will agree with this and more. Right from the beginning the combination of news and LE statements seemed BIZARRE. They focused on what a jerk CR was and that he was banned from smallwood and that he was punched. Making it seem like ZO (who they would never reveal or discuss) was some kind of HERO (Yeah Jacobite, I remember all of this now, but it's a long time ago for me in this case). It seemed very odd to me that someone committing an unprovoked act of violence like that on cameras was not also immediately rousted and locked up. He was clearly shielded and for a very long time I found that protection really weird. Yet, LE busted in to the room with the camera... apparently not to go after ZO, but perhaps to look for clues? Also strange behavior, considering after that they seemed to just give up. There were numerous discussions early on about corrupt LE, individuals being linked to protecting the drug trade or not wanting to crack down on the bars or party scene because it's an integral part of the local community.
Most definitely this is one of the strange things that prevent me from forgetting about this case. There is something rotten here and there needs to be a really big light to shine on this little cockroach nest. There are just too many people too close to this, circumstances too strange, behaviors too odd for there not to be a connection here somewhere. There are a lot of cold cases out there with no POI's, pretty much no evidence and no witnesses. But this one is full of people, a very small time window, loads of cameras, someone knows something and it's a dam waiting to burst.
If the Indy State Police are not investigating the Local LE, then the FBI should be investigating the whole thing.
And as for no evidence of drug dealers, give me a freakin break!!! is there anyone involved here that didn't see and/or use drugs? where did they come from? Just fall from the sky? Of course there are drug dealers and that's where the drugs come from. Some are just casual friends who buy more than they need to get a discount on their supply, others are moving a bit more and earning a good income or side income, and further up the chain you have people that will kill and vanish people in the blink of an eye. No there is no proof that someone like that decided to do LS in.
After processing the information from the last 2 weeks I'm starting to think that all of our key POI's have an idea of what happened, but they are not talking because they are fearing retribution either legally or illegally. In other words yes they are all cowards. I also think that it's highly possible that while they all have an idea of what happened, that it's a strong possibility that one knows a lot more than the rest. If this passing Lauren from CR/MB's happened while she was unquestionably alive, I could see how MB and CR could sleep at night, rationalizing that whatever happened was in JR's hands. And while JR may know a whole lot more, he may not know details either. Hypothetically here is one example: Whatever state LS is in, as long as she is alive she gets over to JR's... MB sighs in relief... whew not my problem! Then any number of things happen, coma, death, someone offters to take her home and doesn't, JR lets her stumble outside, whatever.
But at this stage JR is either involving others; undisclosed POI's, unknown persons, or is being really negligent. He is culpable in any scenario, so he has to do the most covering and his story has to be the most airtight. If he passed the task of taking her home or ditching the body to someone else, he likely would not know any further details. If he really did let her stumble out negligently regardless of the time, he also may have lost track of her. So he could know who really last saw her but not know when she died, how she died, or what happened to her body. Had he any conscience at all, this would be eating him very badly, and would for the rest of his life. If he's a well formed sociopath, well then just like LE and a lot of people, he's thinking he'll just move on with his life. There is no way that I could do that with me being in his shoes, so that stinks really bad. How can he not feel responsible? Now this all gives him a lot of benefit of the doubt. Personally I think he's in it up to his elbows. Either way he has not come clean yet. And now, a step further with this. Say he knows who took her out of his place. Just because he fingers that person, doesn't mean anyone could be convicted. Because now that person would have a defense that JR keeps changing his story and there is no physical evidence to tie him (likely a him) to the crime(not much of a chance it's not a crime). So, Person X if a real bad guy(as opposed to a loyal friend or low level link in the dope trade, which I see as a strong alternative), doesn't go to prison AND knows JR is a rat. So JR then has a whole other reason not to sleep at night for the rest of his life. While this is just one possible scenario, something is causing the silence. My sense of people who get themselves into trouble is that they fear vindictive individuals or crime orgs more than they do LE and authorities. So, my top theory is someone helped JR out and he has no choice but to shut up. CR/MB could have been involved up to a point (maybe right up to or just before her death) yet I do sense that there was a cutoff where they were not involved anymore. So they could be more comfortable claiming their ignorance and point at JR. No question to me that given her injuries that CR/MB were negligent too.
Whatever the variables, not sure how JR could talk or forget about this.
He's definitely caught between a rock and a hard place. Yet, even Presidential level politicians have had skeletons like this in their closet.
But then those people are sociopaths or worse.
Is it possible from what we know to make a list of those who had the strongest ties to JR who lived or frequented 10th & College?
That should be a short list. If that mystery call from JR's involves someone on that short list, I would be knocking on that door a lot.
Otherwise all of those people should be POI's on my list. And I would check all of their vehicles and known associations vehicles against vehicles now listed which showed up on all area cameras within 72 hrs of 3:00am that night LS was last seen. (yeah I would have a list for that, if LE doesn't they are useless).
VeryVeritas
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I agree that since she hasn't been found, they probably feel "safe" and might increase in their confidence. Very very early on we talked about searching the construction. It was really amazing to me that searchers were going on everywhere off in a distance and she could have been right there. I never saw confirmation that LE searched a number of places very close to 5N or along College. There were several kinds of construction going on, and that could easily be tied (though not with any certainty) to where her body went.
Unless someone comes forward and says she is in the foundation right there... I doubt anyone is going to be looking. I wonder if the FBI has equipment that can test the density of cement to find bodies without ripping it up? If so, would think that could be cleared up fairly quickly. There were lots of holes in the area due to sewer construction. Not sure how you would go about that search. And consider if it was someone in 10th and College building, waiting for a few days, that they may have done something like this AFTER the initial searches took place.
VeryVeritas
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how can you say it simply did not happen? LS was not around giving samples, there is no body and wherever this may have taken place may not have been discovered or where it happened may have been adequately cleaned or LE may have failed. You say this with such certainty, yet I've seen nothing to disprove it.
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