IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

[VeryVeritas]

I wonder what the PI's claim that ZO told CR to take LS to her room is based on. Unless there are other witnesses, once CR claimed amnesia, it cleared the way for ZO and Co. to say whatever they wanted, since LS is missing and CR can't counter one way or another (unless he gets his memory back).

From other interviews, I get the feeling that CR wasn't highly regarded by everyone on campus. Maybe because he's cocky and goes after other guy's girls? Also, maybe he owed a DD money or something. While the POIs are reportedly well off, they may still have budgets to operate within.

I also wonder what the interactions at the Indy 500 were like ... I believe there was an altercation involving ZO there as well.

Depending on how much of the interaction between ZO and CR/LS happened on camera lip reading experts could prove or disprove ZO's statements, and perhaps what CR said as well. As PI's put it CR said F-U and so I'm sure that's rather obvious on the video. So if ZO totally fabricated what he said, he could be found lying here and then everything he said comes into question.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I wonder what the PI's claim that ZO told CR to take LS to her room is based on. Unless there are other witnesses, once CR claimed amnesia, it cleared the way for ZO and Co. to say whatever they wanted, since LS is missing and CR can't counter one way or another (unless he gets his memory back).

From other interviews, I get the feeling that CR wasn't highly regarded by everyone on campus. Maybe because he's cocky and goes after other guy's girls? Also, maybe he owed a DD money or something. While the POIs are reportedly well off, they may still have budgets to operate within.

I also wonder what the interactions at the Indy 500 were like ... I believe there was an altercation involving ZO there as well.

Who was directly involved in the Altercation? Was it every explained?

 

[doubtingthomas]

Who was directly involved in the Altercation? Was it every explained?

Here is a link to Tony Gatto which talks about the Indy 500.

http://tonygatto.com/2011/07/04/man...end-at-smallwood-identified-as-zachary-oakes/

 

[Jacobite]

Wow! It appears someone has a nasty temper. Nice place on a lake though.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I don't think proof is necessary to say that any one or two of those boys were likely selling or providing drugs. I don't know what the diff is b/w selling and dealing, but: CR has history of possession, JR's frat has history of heavy use if not selling, coke was in Lauren's room, she and DR allegedly snorted klonopin, and there's what Bo Dietl said about the entire quadrant in that part of town where the kids' apartments are. Nah, I think you can pretty much bank on the fact that drugs were exchanged for something.

Not sure who made the revelation about Klonopin? If you would snort something like that, I would say you are just about open to anything.
Has DR admitted this? Another thought about why call DR (at 4:15), what if JR knew about the Klonopin or just thatthat DR had shared something with LSA and JR was checking to see if DR was having similar effects or to ask questions about what it was, how much did they take, etc...

Also curious if CR was involved with that? This is a different track than the Xanax snorting yet it could definitely also cause short term amnesia. Many years ago I dated a girl who had epilepsy and took Klonopin daily. It caused her such severe memory loss that she was about half way to Drew Barrymore in 50 first dates. She had to write down a daily log because a day or two later it was all forgotten.

I could not see this as being a recreational drug by any means. So I have a hard time with this one. If DR admits it, then you have a pretty good explanation for her subsequent behavior, and contributing factor in her probable death. From the shoes and phone left behind, falling in the elevator, PI descriptions of her sudden falls, it seemed like a lot more than alcohol was involved. Even combined with small amounts of xanax I wondered. But if she had Klonopin, alcohol, and possibly coke and/or other stuff this would pretty much be like anesthesia easily leading to stopped breathing. How valid is the source?

 

[VeryVeritas]

Here is a link to Tony Gatto which talks about the Indy 500.

http://tonygatto.com/2011/07/04/man...end-at-smallwood-identified-as-zachary-oakes/

Thanks for bringing all of that back.
How could he not be a suspect?

Ok, what was ZO's story for what happened after the SW beating and where was AB after that too?

 

[doubtingthomas]

Thanks for bringing all of that back.
How could he not be a suspect?

Ok, what was ZO's story for what happened after the SW beating and where was AB after that too?

This to me is the million dollar question. I thought I read that there were 3 or 4 other guys with ZO when he punched CR. If so, who were they? What is there story? Where did they all go after the altercation? I'm sure the video tape had identified all involved. So, 3 or 4 guys punch out another guy who is with a girl who is having trouble functioning and they just get on an elevator and leave? Or they watch them get on the elevator and leave? Must be more to this story.

 

[phantomthought]

Not sure who made the revelation about Klonopin? If you would snort something like that, I would say you are just about open to anything.
Has DR admitted this? Another thought about why call DR (at 4:15), what if JR knew about the Klonopin or just thatthat DR had shared something with LSA and JR was checking to see if DR was having similar effects or to ask questions about what it was, how much did they take, etc...

Also curious if CR was involved with that? This is a different track than the Xanax snorting yet it could definitely also cause short term amnesia. Many years ago I dated a girl who had epilepsy and took Klonopin daily. It caused her such severe memory loss that she was about half way to Drew Barrymore in 50 first dates. She had to write down a daily log because a day or two later it was all forgotten.

I could not see this as being a recreational drug by any means. So I have a hard time with this one. If DR admits it, then you have a pretty good explanation for her subsequent behavior, and contributing factor in her probable death. From the shoes and phone left behind, falling in the elevator, PI descriptions of her sudden falls, it seemed like a lot more than alcohol was involved. Even combined with small amounts of xanax I wondered. But if she had Klonopin, alcohol, and possibly coke and/or other stuff this would pretty much be like anesthesia easily leading to stopped breathing. How valid is the source?

According to the PI JR is the source of this info and he was not sure if he heard it from DR or LS.Funny how he has no problem discussing their supposed drug use that night.I wonder if he was as forthcoming with his own or CR or MB drug use that night.Speaking of these other players why does MB and DR have the same lawyer.DR was suppose to be home asleep at SW when LS disappeared.MB was the one who is at the last place she is seen before she disappeared.So what common interest do they have with each other that they would both have the same lawyer.IMO their was something going on when all of these people where at JR apartment earlier in the night that is why they have the same lawyer and that is why the phone call was made to him at 4:15 in the morning.

 

[Mophebius]

Jacobite, I would really like to know your rationale and suspicion's of ZO? You have made some pretty sensationalistic comments about ZO, but have never followed that up offering any plausible explanation of his envolvement. Other than the fact that it sounds like he may have been a short tempered ******* and his family lived on a lake, I haven't heard anything from you that would seem incriminating at all of ZO. Do you have any info to offer at all? Other than this myth about a "lake legend" that you mention from time to time, but never fully elaborate on? I dont mean to seem attacking, but are you laying out bread crumbs here for us, while sitting on a bomb-shell? Or are you just purely speculating that he's the perp? It would just be nice to have that clarification...

 

[akh]

Since there's now word that there were TWO late night calls and not just the one 4:15AM call, it could explain how JR hasn't seen more police pressure after placing himself as the last one to see her. Assuming the call was supposed to be LS, and assuming that call was to a friend of LS' that wasn't in JR's contact list, and it is someone who would say that JR had never called them.... that would be some fairly exculpatory stuff. IF that is the case.

As for the question of a couple of PsOI having the same attorney... that seems to easily be explained by coincidence. If there was some untoward connection then they probably WOULDN'T have the same attorney IMO.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Since there's now word that there were TWO late night calls and not just the one 4:15AM call, it could explain how JR hasn't seen more police pressure after placing himself as the last one to see her. Assuming the call was supposed to be LS, and assuming that call was to a friend of LS' that wasn't in JR's contact list, and it is someone who would say that JR had never called them.... that would be some fairly exculpatory stuff. IF that is the case.

As for the question of a couple of PsOI having the same attorney... that seems to easily be explained by coincidence. If there was some untoward connection then they probably WOULDN'T have the same attorney IMO.

Yes, a lot seems to hinge on these small details like that second call, and probably why LE hasn't made it public. The call not being answered however isn't all that helpful to JR. If someone had actually talked with LS that would have been helpful. Even if not in his contact list, or never called before, that doesn't mean he didn't have this person's number. But who this person is, certainly seems important at this stage.

Didn't CR/MB have the same lawyer at first but had to split because of a conflict of interest? I'm wondering then how MB and DR having the same lawyer is not a conflict of interest.

 

[VeryVeritas]

According to the PI JR is the source of this info and he was not sure if he heard it from DR or LS.Funny how he has no problem discussing their supposed drug use that night.I wonder if he was as forthcoming with his own or CR or MB drug use that night.Speaking of these other players why does MB and DR have the same lawyer.DR was suppose to be home asleep at SW when LS disappeared.MB was the one who is at the last place she is seen before she disappeared.So what common interest do they have with each other that they would both have the same lawyer.IMO their was something going on when all of these people where at JR apartment earlier in the night that is why they have the same lawyer and that is why the phone call was made to him at 4:15 in the morning.

I recall the PI's saying that JR said there had been some drug use at his place "earlier" in the evening. What is that supposed to mean? Are we talking about passing a bong around and 5 people sharing 1g of coke? If it was LS's coke found in her SW apt, then why not bring it?

By now LE should have asked DR about the Klonopin and he better have been forthcoming. Very curious about that interview.

How many people who have the lights going off to the point that they keep crashing into cement (or face first into gravel) are able to remember and make calls a short while later? Bogus to me! show me you can "walk" test, just not believable. I'd say LS's clock was cleaned a lot more than CR's and so if he was non-functional and had amnesia she would be in even worse shape. It's totally inconsistent that she would make a miraculous recovery in that short time period.

 

[imkeylime]

Not sure who made the revelation about Klonopin? If you would snort something like that, I would say you are just about open to anything.
Has DR admitted this? Another thought about why call DR (at 4:15), what if JR knew about the Klonopin or just thatthat DR had shared something with LSA and JR was checking to see if DR was having similar effects or to ask questions about what it was, how much did they take, etc...

Also curious if CR was involved with that? This is a different track than the Xanax snorting yet it could definitely also cause short term amnesia. Many years ago I dated a girl who had epilepsy and took Klonopin daily. It caused her such severe memory loss that she was about half way to Drew Barrymore in 50 first dates. She had to write down a daily log because a day or two later it was all forgotten.

I could not see this as being a recreational drug by any means. So I have a hard time with this one. If DR admits it, then you have a pretty good explanation for her subsequent behavior, and contributing factor in her probable death. From the shoes and phone left behind, falling in the elevator, PI descriptions of her sudden falls, it seemed like a lot more than alcohol was involved. Even combined with small amounts of xanax I wondered. But if she had Klonopin, alcohol, and possibly coke and/or other stuff this would pretty much be like anesthesia easily leading to stopped breathing. How valid is the source?

It's in the Lohud article (http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...ng-drug-use?odyssey=mod|defcon|text|Frontpage).

Sadly, I do think kids are using such drugs recreationally. I believe there's a disconnect between those who prescribe Rx drugs to kids and what these kids do with them. Kids do have legitimate medical/psychological reasons to be given such drugs, i.e., ADHD, cutting/self harming, etc. But they're also KIDS and make bad choices (as have some celebrities, may I add). I've heard a story about a HS girl who tried to smoke Tylenol. While Tylenol may be harmless when swallowed (and maybe even when smoked), who does that? A kid who doesn't know better, obviously.

Take Adderall, for instance, which AB tweeted about giving Teddy to help him find LS. Kids don't just take it for ADHD ... they take it to enhance their ability to focus—and to make it through Friday so they can party. Kronopin doesn't seem that different from Xanax ... and yes, very similar side effects, particularly with alcohol.

 

[imkeylime]

This to me is the million dollar question. I thought I read that there were 3 or 4 other guys with ZO when he punched CR. If so, who were they? What is there story? Where did they all go after the altercation? I'm sure the video tape had identified all involved. So, 3 or 4 guys punch out another guy who is with a girl who is having trouble functioning and they just get on an elevator and leave? Or they watch them get on the elevator and leave? Must be more to this story.

I'm actually a bit curious about "Teddy." I wonder if he was part of the group? AB mentions him in two tweets, i.e., giving him an Adderall and a flashlight and him being "lost" and in the hospital. Curious stuff ...

 

[Jacobite]

Jacobite, I would really like to know your rationale and suspicion's of ZO? You have made some pretty sensationalistic comments about ZO, but have never followed that up offering any plausible explanation of his envolvement. Other than the fact that it sounds like he may have been a short tempered ******* and his family lived on a lake, I haven't heard anything from you that would seem incriminating at all of ZO. Do you have any info to offer at all? Other than this myth about a "lake legend" that you mention from time to time, but never fully elaborate on? I dont mean to seem attacking, but are you laying out bread crumbs here for us, while sitting on a bomb-shell? Or are you just purely speculating that he's the perp? It would just be nice to have that clarification...

I believe he is on video assaulting Corey Rossmaan who was attempting to walk Lauren home from Sports. I think even Aruba would have filed charges and looked further into him for that.
Is he above the law? Fishy. No battery charge?

Now, it wasn't my folly to have searched all those lakes. At least, they should have searched a lake that was connected to the POI. And, yes, ZO would have been able to get rid of a body much easier and quickly than the Out of State guys. But, that does not mean he is guilty of it.

The real myth though is all those cameras we believed existed on College Avenue. There were no city cams that would have seen her anywhere between Rosenbaum's and home. Anyway, I really hope she could be alive.
But, there is that early legend and it is not my legend. LE was not searching lakes at my request. And, I certainly am not the person making the accusations on Silent Sender or PT.
I hope it is a myth.

But, but, but, I would have checked those lakes a year ago and we would not even be having this discussion today.

And just fluttering around from theory to theory seems like wasting time on a sit and spin while nobody is looking for Lauren. I'd bet this is not an OD.

 

[mik1965]

I believe he is on video assaulting Corey Rossmaan who was attempting to walk Lauren home from Sports. I think even Aruba would have filed charges and looked further into him for that.
Is he above the law? Fishy. No battery charge?

Now, it wasn't my folly to have searched all those lakes. At least, they should have searched a lake that was connected to the POI. And, yes, ZO would have been able to get rid of a body much easier and quickly than the Out of State guys. But, that does not mean he is guilty of it.

The real myth though is all those cameras we believed existed on College Avenue. There were no city cams that would have seen her anywhere between Rosenbaum's and home. Anyway, I really hope she could be alive.
But, there is that early legend and it is not my legend. LE was not searching lakes at my request. And, I certainly am not the person making the accusations on Silent Sender or PT.
I hope it is a myth.

But, but, but, I would have checked those lakes a year ago and we would not even be having this discussion today.

And just fluttering around from theory to theory seems like wasting time on a sit and spin while nobody is looking for Lauren. I'd bet this is not an OD.

Are the Bloomington Police perhaps protecting ZO, if he was possibly an informant?

 

[akh]

The lack of a battery charge is interesting because it would've been leverage to get some people in court and under oath. It would've been interesting to see if CR would've agreed to cooperate or not. And with the video, he wouldn't have been necessary for a prosecution so his lack of cooperation wouldn't have thwarted plans to use the prosecution as leverage.

It could be further evidence exists that shows ZO et al could not have been involved and so charging him for a minor assault would've not been worth the effort if it's probative value was nil for LS' disappearance. But if that type of evidence does not exist then it seems a wasted opportunity... and a curious one at that.

Would ZO have pled guilty to avoid himself and his friends having to defend him in court, or give any statements... especially if the prosecutor charged to the max?

 

[Tr.]

But, but, but, I would have checked those lakes a year ago and we would not even be having this discussion today.

And just fluttering around from theory to theory seems like wasting time on a sit and spin while nobody is looking for Lauren. I'd bet this is not an OD.

People are still conducting searches as ideas come along.
If you want to name some location ideas...feel free. Names of lakes or areas of interest (without naming poi's if you like)...we get it.

 

[holly2325]

Yes, a lot seems to hinge on these small details like that second call, and probably why LE hasn't made it public. The call not being answered however isn't all that helpful to JR. If someone had actually talked with LS that would have been helpful. Even if not in his contact list, or never called before, that doesn't mean he didn't have this person's number. But who this person is, certainly seems important at this stage.

Didn't CR/MB have the same lawyer at first but had to split because of a conflict of interest? I'm wondering then how MB and DR having the same lawyer is not a conflict of interest.

I'm pretty sure Rohn's dad is a lawyer ( not criminal, construction or something) in NYC, so it could be strategic in some way.

 

[holly2325]

I'm pretty sure Rohn's dad is a lawyer ( not criminal, construction or something) in NYC, so it could be strategic in some way.

Wait a second, I now recall that perhaps Chapman represented one or both DR / MB in prior drug/ alcohol offenses. Does this sound familiar to anyone else?