IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

[VeryVeritas]

"One flaw in the hasty calling sequence, could be if that 2nd number had ever been called from JR's phone(s) before. Also not sure if JR has more than one phone? Were the calls from a landline or a mobile? If that 2nd call went to a disposable phone would there not also have been a pattern of pings traceable for that phone?
And even if that phone were disposable, would there not be a record of calls that disposable phone made to others? The government surely can analyze that data. Did that phone go out out of service after that night? "

I agree that if JR had called that number before, he would have a very hard time explaining himself. That said, there's two possibilities.

1. Highly unlikely (but still more plausible to me than a random abduction) - DD's will switch out disposable phones pretty regularly to ditch their tracks. It's a long shot, but maybe the DD did this after the last time JR called him, making this the first time the new number was called from JR's phone.

2. More likely - JR has called that number before. But, I'm pretty sure for LE to prove that, they would have to subpoena his phone records or access them with consent. If they did either, I'm unaware.

--------

:|

And also the calls that the DD's disposable phone had made may tie back to JR or others.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I have more questions than answers. We seem to be down to a relatively small group of dedicated sleuths here. My sense is that this group can offer expertise in law, culture, forensics, and a broad range areas useful in the search for LS.

BPD, at last count, reports more than 2,600 tips, yet we seem to be no closer to finding LS than we were a year ago. Perhaps LE is on track, but, based on reports from RS/CS and BD (PI), it's doubtful. I've followed this case from the beginning on WS, PT, JRNTT, TG, FB, and everywhere else I can find, and I've gone back to some first-month posts recently. At that time, we had some access to information that came from individuals close to the PsOI or individuals who represented themselves that way online. That stream is now apparently dry. Why?

I have no doubt that LS ran with a hard-partying group and that these young "ladies and gentlemen" do not want more details than they have already provided spread over the Internet. I also have no doubt that at least one of them has information that can help find LS. Have they let nothing of interest slip to their friends during the past year? Have any of these tips been reported in hopes of claiming the reward? I suspect so, but cannot be certain.

We live in a civilized society that rightfully penalizes vigilante justice, so we rely on LE, licensed investigators, and our judicial system to move beyond this impasse. Yet, we seem stuck. RS/CS have made heartfelt pleas based on morality, but those, too, have failed to produce results. Why?

Where do we WS-ers go from here to be most helpful? What legal options do RS/CS have?

1) Public / Political Pressure on LE and FBI. There are too many of these cases unsolved. We spend Trillions on invisible Terrorists, but right here people disappear without a trace day after day. It's time the priorities in this country shift to clean up our mess right here on US Soil.
2) Relentless pressure on LE and all POI's until more information is forthcoming.
3) More PI's
4) Turn over every stone and go over the facts again and again.

Ultimately this takes dedication and $$. I wish there was a way our availability and interest was more useful here. But until we come up with something new based on analysis of what is known, or more info is released we are at a disadvantage.

 

[VeryVeritas]

In regards to a DD. This could be any person affiliated with the school or ties to the local community. Ie. Townie, student, friend of a student perhaps from a major city like Indy or Chitown, even shady LE. I even came across one character on FB who had ties to JR's (ZD) roommate who was back home for the summer. His "trapping" (slang for dealing) talk could and should be looked into.

What I think will happen if it does involve a DD, is that as soon as these boys get their degree and move on that's when the talking will happen. Obviously had they not returned to finish their degree after this night, they look guilty. Ratting, clearing their names, or supplying LE with evidence could put them in serious danger by the DD and associates. Retribution and retaliation could be huge. In many major cities the "no snitching" policy is king and when victims talk something always happens. As soon as these boys put Bloomington in their rearview I feel confident the truth will be revealed.

Now back to JW, there's no may in my mind that kid was pulling any action on the side. Just from pictures he looks lucky enough to have been with LS. That being said, we don't know if the CR/ZO situation was something that stemmed from the Indy 500 or something that was orchestrated by JW. But just think for one second, had JW been responsible for LS's disappearance the ZO piece of the puzzle sure played into his favor. While probably not planned, it sure took any and all pressure of JW.

Still think the rumors of ZO as a confidential informant is bigger than it is. He also could have been a dealer with goods supplied from LE. A vicious cycle, take drugs off the street, supply to a college kid to deal, 100% profit. It just seems weird that will all this talk he's got no record on file aside from traffic violations, and he was never pursued by LE even when he's on video having a full on assault charge against him?!?!

Is there anything to tie JW to ZO at all that night? Look everyone has cell phones. Did ZO send a carrier pigeon over to wake up JW to commit murder? Other than the fact that ZO seems to have a get out of jail free card, I've not seen anything substantial yet that would implicate him in LS disappearance. And absolutely nothing to connect JW.

 

[Seagull]

police discovered a body on private property while searching for a missing man. no further details yet.

http://www.indystar.com/article/201...nsville?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

 

[elmomom]

police discovered a body on private property while searching for a missing man. no further details yet.

http://www.indystar.com/article/201...nsville?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

Body is missing male, not LS.

 

[akh]

Hillside,
Your story about your friend (perhaps inadvertently) lends some credibility or plausibility to the idea LS left JR's apartment just as he said she did.

 

[Ros]

Hillside,
Your story about your friend (perhaps inadvertently) lends some credibility or plausibility to the idea LS left JR's apartment just as he said she did.

IMHO, at that time of night in Bloomington, there would have been few plausible destinations for her, and some of these are stretches:

1. Smallwood (seems most likely)
2. JW's (if you can't get into your own place, try your BF's.)
3. Waffle House (time for breakfast?)
4. Home of friend(s) (But who's going to be awake to let her in?)
5. Public restroom or port-a-potty (When you gotta go, you gotta go.)
6. Wells Library (open 24 hours, but not sure why she'd go there except to find a place to sleep) or other open university building (Is the Union open all night? Do they still wake up students who fall asleep on the couches in the lounges?)

The bars and stores would be closed. She could not go to a hotel without a credit card or cash.

 

[phantomthought]

Is there anything to tie JW to ZO at all that night? Look everyone has cell phones. Did ZO send a carrier pigeon over to wake up JW to commit murder? Other than the fact that ZO seems to have a get out of jail free card, I've not seen anything substantial yet that would implicate him in LS disappearance. And absolutely nothing to connect JW.

They all have get of of jail cards but they are not free.Everyone of these students that get arrested it is the same story.Hire a local lawyer(big money for him).Pay a big fine (money for the local government) then be required to take some alcohol prevention class that costs big bucks and is probable run by someones brother in law.This police dept. seams very good at revenue enhancement and pretty bad at solving crimes.

 

[Jacobite]

They all have get of of jail cards but they are not free.Everyone of these students that get arrested it is the same story.Hire a local lawyer(big money for him).Pay a big fine (money for the local government) then be required to take some alcohol prevention class that costs big bucks and is probable run by someones brother in law.This police dept. seams very good at revenue enhancement and pretty bad at solving crimes.

Unfortunately, the generation with a work ethic is headed to the nursing home and dying off. And, I'm just not seeing anyone rolling up their sleeves and doing the legwork required to solve this crime. Will this case ever be solved? I don't believe Lauren killed herself with an OD.

 

[OldSteve]

I just don't see Lauren being left alone that night... all night long she had male companions.

Why are they with all night?

Two personality types stand out -
those who have hopes of getting lucky with her.

those who being with her feel more important because her presence as in I'm special because I'm in the company of a beautiful girl.

So why would either of the two types I mention leave her alone when she is most vulnerable, most out-of-it.?
The wanting-to-get-lucky types would feel there chances would be getting better.
The ones she makes feel more important being in her presence would feel even more important if they could be helping her..

 

[Jacobite]

Way too many people who think they have the right to play God in this case. The list starts with the man who made the decision for Lauren that she would no longer be able to live her life. Next, we move on to a police department that would rather see the case go unsolved than allow the Indiana State Police, FBI, or PIs to bring in expertise. BPD is not releasing any info that might solve the crime. And, don't forget the media. They were lazy and only did press releases and solely focused on 4 POI and dug no deeper. And, we have POI who did not have the decency to sit down with Lauren's family. This crime will make you sick to your gut if you think about it much because it's an outrage.

 

[Jacobite]

So much focus on the altercation at SW between CR and ZO, may have taken attention (and LE focus) in the wrong direction.

I don't think so. The confrontation is the reason why Lauren fled her home and we have this missing person case in the first place. That's the trigger. It also appears to provide the only clue for any kind of motive in the case at all.
Of course, ZO should be cleared if video evidence clearly shows he spent the night at Smallwood or went home and stayed put etc.

 

[mik1965]

Way too many people who think they have the right to play God in this case. The list starts with the man who made the decision for Lauren that she would no longer be able to live her life. Next, we move on to a police department that would rather see the case go unsolved than allow the Indiana State Police, FBI, or PIs to bring in expertise. BPD is not releasing any info that might solve the crime. And, don't forget the media. They were lazy and only did press releases and solely focused on 4 POI and dug no deeper. And, we have POI who did not have the decency to sit down with Lauren's family. This crime will make you sick to your gut if you think about it much because it's an outrage.

Makes you wonder why BPD doesn't want other departments investigating. The longer it goes, the more suspicious I get of LE involvement.

 

[Jupiter812]

Makes you wonder why BPD doesn't want other departments investigating. The longer it goes, the more suspicious I get of LE involvement.

It's not just this case. They have a reputation for being one of the most tight-lipped depts in the Midwest.

 

[Jacobite]

Let's see. When I first came on Websleuths, I said seizures were possible with Lauren's form of Long QT. This could partly explain the condition she was in that night. I was answered with about 4 pages of ridicule. But now, LoHud confirmed what I said and now that has credibility.
On 8,23,2011, I was in the alley where Lauren had been on her last night. I was with another guy and a blonde. The blonde got ahead of us and turned a corner towards Smallwood. A man came running after her. When he saw us he jumped into a speeding car. Everyone on this board thought I'd lied. But, it was not a lie and the blonde had a camera. So yes, I always believed Lauren was ambushed and taken right off her feet.
Should I put their picture on this board? I think the photo has been gathering dust in the BPD files, lost like a needle in a haystack.

 

[mik1965]

Let's see. When I first came on Websleuths, I said seizures were possible with Lauren's form of Long QT. This could partly explain the condition she was in that night. I was answered with about 4 pages of ridicule. But now, LoHud confirmed what I said and now that has credibility.
On 8,23,2011, I was in the alley where Lauren had been on her last night. I was with another guy and a blonde. The blonde got ahead of us and turned a corner towards Smallwood. A man came running after her. When he saw us he jumped into a speeding car. Everyone on this board thought I'd lied. But, it was not a lie and the blonde had a camera. So yes, I always believed Lauren was ambushed and taken right off her feet.
Should I put their picture on this board? I think the photo has been gathering dust in the BPD files, lost like a needle in a haystack.

Yes you should...but how does that tie into your suspicion of ZO?

 

[elmorejames]

Let's see. When I first came on Websleuths, I said seizures were possible with Lauren's form of Long QT. This could partly explain the condition she was in that night. I was answered with about 4 pages of ridicule. But now, LoHud confirmed what I said and now that has credibility.
On 8,23,2011, I was in the alley where Lauren had been on her last night. I was with another guy and a blonde. The blonde got ahead of us and turned a corner towards Smallwood. A man came running after her. When he saw us he jumped into a speeding car. Everyone on this board thought I'd lied. But, it was not a lie and the blonde had a camera. So yes, I always believed Lauren was ambushed and taken right off her feet.
Should I put their picture on this board? I think the photo has been gathering dust in the BPD files, lost like a needle in a haystack.

Please do so... It could help crack the case or even thread the needle from the haystack that could sew this all together!

 

[doubtingthomas]

Let's see. When I first came on Websleuths, I said seizures were possible with Lauren's form of Long QT. This could partly explain the condition she was in that night. I was answered with about 4 pages of ridicule. But now, LoHud confirmed what I said and now that has credibility.
On 8,23,2011, I was in the alley where Lauren had been on her last night. I was with another guy and a blonde. The blonde got ahead of us and turned a corner towards Smallwood. A man came running after her. When he saw us he jumped into a speeding car. Everyone on this board thought I'd lied. But, it was not a lie and the blonde had a camera. So yes, I always believed Lauren was ambushed and taken right off her feet.
Should I put their picture on this board? I think the photo has been gathering dust in the BPD files, lost like a needle in a haystack.

I think posting would be good. Are there more than 1 picture? Any chance she got a picture with the license plate? Maybe someone from Btown who visits this board would recognize the car. It might lead to something.

 

[AbbeyR]

My guess is that LE doesn't actually know who the 2nd call was placed to. ALL serious drug dealers use pre-paid, untraceable cell phones. JR can claim ignorance on who the number belongs to because it was LS that supposedly made the call.... <snipped>

Large quantity drug distributors in college towns are no joke. They are serious people who make lots of money, don't **** around, and would not let a helpless dying girl or a couple rich dweebs get in the way of their business/freedom. The parents need to push on a civil suit so they can depose these *******s and find their daughter.

According to the recent LoHud article, they do know who the 2nd call was placed to, and it was someone who Lauren was with at Smallwood earlier in the night.

I find it hard to believe that any of these guys had connection to big dangerous drug dealers, when chances are if they were 'dealing' it was more like picking up for friends, not actually dealing to make money. JMO

 

[bx2]

2 sort of random things that I've thought about-

• We've heard about LS walking barefoot through alleys and sidewalks, and also sustaining possible injuries by hitting her head and also falling without her hands stopping her. Is it at all odd that their wasn't any of her blood in the places she went to (at least that we know about)?
• This one might require a map for non-locals to follow. With what we know of westbound 11th Street between College and Morton closed for construction, the only approaches to 5N are driving east on 11th and driving north on Morton. What I'm getting at is that the heavy majority of vehicular traffic to this area would be directed to use westbound 10th Street to Morton. We know for sure that this route is covered by camera because its the same path that the truck photos came from.