IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

[Jupiter812]

Why do you think they contacted JW? I don't remember hearing of a ZO/JW link, though, I have been following since the beginning and can't always remember what's been discussed in th past.

I'm not linking ZO and JW. It's not at all out of the question that a boy in that group knew him. If one of them didn't text/call him, I think it's likely someone at Smallwood did. Why? Because Lauren and JW were a couple and Lauren was compromised while out with another male.

 

[Jupiter812]

Had to take a bit of a break. This case just makes me so angry because I still feel like someone we know in the case knows exactly what happened. It just isn't fair to her family. It is great to see continued activity and differing opinions though. I would hate it if this thread was ever dead!

Agree. This thread helps to keep my hope alive that the case will be solved. It is a palpable connection to what I hope is an end, eventually.

 

[Seagull]

I'm not linking ZO and JW. It's not at all out of the question that a boy in that group knew him. If one of them didn't text/call him, I think it's likely someone at Smallwood did. Why? Because Lauren and JW were a couple and Lauren was compromised while out with another male.

Makes sense. I guess what makes me think that nobody did is your original thought -- why wouldn't he head over to get to the bottom of things?

Maybe it all truly happened quickly and none of her girlfriends (more likely the type that might contact her bf) were still out and about to witness the SW scuffle. I have to think that if they were they would have tried to make her stay in. And if that failed, maybe try to get other help, eg, JW. After all, it was very late/early.

 

[Seagull]

I grew up in Indianapolis, visited IU during my college years and have known many who have attended and graduated from there so have been naturally interested and following this case from the beginning.

I also have a cousin who currently goes to IU -- just finished his sophomore year. I've asked him a few times what, if anything he's heard - especially during this past school year. He referred to the group as a group of pretty privileged kids and hard partiers (no surprise to us, but was making the point that he's not really in those circles) and that most people have the theory that there was involvement from some sort of drug dealer.

I should say, however, that I heard this same theory first from a few friends who are attorneys in Indy (not criminal, but the community there isn't overly large). The chatter among lawyers involves the same theory -- some sort of dealer, low level or otherwise (not clear on these delineations) was involved. And that's the reason the body will never be found. In it of itself, this is no surprise, but that exact sentence "And that's the reason the body will never be found," is what stood out to me.

Naturally, that led me to fill in the details of someone with little to no emotional involvement in the situation, but with much to lose, criminally, if body found, was perhaps called in to take and dispose of LS. Wolf-style (Pulp Fiction reference). This thinking has me often returning back to the theory of the white truck and the fire near Martinsville combined with some rumors of pings from JR's phone to the Martinsville area.

There was some talk a page or two up the thread about how the really dark side of the drug trade, especially near a bigger market like a college campus, is never as far removed as we assume. That seemed like an important nuance to consider in this case.

Also, in combination with this theory, the speculation about ZO somehow being linked as a police informant at one time or another adds an even murkier layer, IMO, and makes some of the non-progress in this case make a bit more sense.

 

[Jupiter812]

Makes sense. I guess what makes me think that nobody did is your original thought -- why wouldn't he head over to get to the bottom of things?

I know, right? The only thing I can come up with is that Lauren could have had "the talk" with JW about wanting to see other guys in which case JW could be at home licking his wounds drinking and getting high. But we know he tried reaching her multiple times that night, so that indicates a concerted effort to connect up with her.

Maybe it all truly happened quickly and none of her girlfriends (more likely the type that might contact her bf) were still out and about to witness the SW scuffle. I have to think that if they were they would have tried to make her stay in. And if that failed, maybe try to get other help, eg, JW. After all, it was very late/early.

I think they were at Smallwood for approx 12 minutes. It's such close quarters. But if everyone is wasted then all bets are off.

One of my concerns stems from a quote of HT's about Lauren, "She just went too far that night," strikes me as blaming Lauren. I truly wonder how much help Lauren could expect from certain girlfriends that night.

It appears the only person who demonstrated concern for her welfare was ZO. Apparently, a boy or two in his group verbally showed concern by asking if she was okay, and then the bar manager asked.

 

[Jupiter812]

I grew up in Indianapolis, visited IU during my college years and have known many who have attended and graduated from there so have been naturally interested and following this case from the beginning.

I also have a cousin who currently goes to IU -- just finished his sophomore year. I've asked him a few times what, if anything he's heard - especially during this past school year. He referred to the group as a group of pretty privileged kids and hard partiers (no surprise to us, but was making the point that he's not really in those circles) and that most people have the theory that there was involvement from some sort of drug dealer.

I should say, however, that I heard this same theory first from a few friends who are attorneys in Indy (not criminal, but the community there isn't overly large). The chatter among lawyers involves the same theory -- some sort of dealer, low level or otherwise (not clear on these delineations) was involved. And that's the reason the body will never be found. In it of itself, this is no surprise, but that exact sentence "And that's the reason the body will never be found," is what stood out to me.

Naturally, that led me to fill in the details of someone with little to no emotional involvement in the situation, but with much to lose, criminally, if body found, was perhaps called in to take and dispose of LS. Wolf-style (Pulp Fiction reference). This thinking has me often returning back to the theory of the white truck and the fire near Martinsville combined with some rumors of pings from JR's phone to the Martinsville area.

There was some talk a page or two up the thread about how the really dark side of the drug trade, especially near a bigger market like a college campus, is never as far removed as we assume. That seemed like an important nuance to consider in this case.

Also, in combination with this theory, the speculation about ZO somehow being linked as a police informant at one time or another adds an even murkier layer, IMO, and makes some of the non-progress in this case make a bit more sense.

Really good post. :rocker: Recently, I described how that part of Bloomington is a best-case scenario for dealing: rich kids with cash flow and an appetite for drugs, good parties with top-shelf alcohol, attractive women...

 

[OldSteve]

Lots of interesting thoughts to mull over!

Drugs, the mention of that reminds me of a line out of an old Monk Comedy/Mystery show "It's always the drugs"... and IIRC the line then changed to "It's always the sex!"

If it was just a case of Lauren ODing, seems making her disappear only brought more attention to her case. Why not make it appear she stumbled and fell into a construction pit, no?

Everyone around her could then play dumb, saying they saw her leave alone and didn't know what happened to her... kinda like what they did say..

So why the need to have her disappear - fear there was evidence of forced sex?

Something else - the uniqueness of Lauren's plight... consider all the booze/drugs/sex in town, why is it that no one else goes missing like she did?

 

[AbbeyR]

I see no reason why a DD of one or 2 notches higher could not be around. People do not necessarily know that this person is what they are, but some might have a clue about it. We have no way of knowing how far up the chain JR, might be. We don't know if he was buying a few grams, or a few oz's He may have not been in it for the money, just maybe well off and liked to keep his guests/friends happy. Some people have said that hardcore DD's up the chain would not hang around. I dispute that. They certainly don't want people to know who they are and generally deal to a very select few who they take their time to know. But how do they expand their business? The only way is to get to know some people and check them out. and what better way to know them than to hang out with one of your low level dealers? Also, if there is even a small bust, LE usually works this up the chain by offering immunity or reduced sentences. I know that people higher up the chain definitely do sniff around to make sure such threats are minimized. And it's not out of the question that they were just hanging around because it was a low key place to be that night and believe it or not DD's have friends too... sometimes lower level buyers who are rich...

Respectfully, I highly doubt that hardcore drug dealers would be hanging around a small college student house party trying to recruit potential buyers. My guess is that they would try to maintain as much distance as possible from scenes like this, and definitely vice versa.

 

[Jupiter812]

Lots of interesting thoughts to mull over!

Drugs, the mention of that reminds me of a line out of an old Monk Comedy/Mystery show "It's always the drugs"... and IIRC the line then changed to "It's always the sex!"

If it was just a case of Lauren ODing, seems making her disappear only brought more attention to her case. Why not make it appear she stumbled and fell into a construction pit, no?

Everyone around her could then play dumb, saying they saw her leave alone and didn't know what happened to her... kinda like what they did say..

So why the need to have her disappear - fear there was evidence of forced sex?

Something else - the uniqueness of Lauren's plight... consider all the booze/drugs/sex in town, why is it that no one else goes missing like she did?

Very good. When you put it that way....the question about what is unique about her plight:

Her size
Long QT condition
Relationship status with JW

Not so unique but worth mentioning:

The boy she was with wanted to sleep with her
There were many boys around her that night

 

[Jupiter812]

That was an interesting exercise. Just listing concrete items--rather than writing complete sentences and trying to be careful and make everything fit--is liberating and has a different quality to it. It reduces everything down to what's at the core.

Anyone, please add to the list. Just keep it short.

Thanks, OldSteve!

 

[monkey222]

Keeping it short:

blonde
pretty
petite
3am
scrape marks on face, injury
hair probably pretty messed up from being tossed over shoulders, and falling
no shoes, no key, no purse, no comb, no phone,free hands
stumbling down street


wouldnt anyone, male or female driving by and seeing this site stop and ask victim if they needed help

 

[OldSteve]

That was an interesting exercise. Just listing concrete items--rather than writing complete sentences and trying to be careful and make everything fit--is liberating and has a different quality to it. It reduces everything down to what's at the core.

Anyone, please add to the list. Just keep it short.

Thanks, OldSteve!

Thanks for your thanks! I admire the way you were here from the start, have had your "boots on the ground" in the area, and really have a nice way posting interesting thoughts about this case!

 

[imkeylime]

That was an interesting exercise. Just listing concrete items--rather than writing complete sentences and trying to be careful and make everything fit--is liberating and has a different quality to it. It reduces everything down to what's at the core.

Anyone, please add to the list. Just keep it short.

Thanks, OldSteve!

HT didn't like CR.
HT friended ZO on FB after that night.
LS had nice jewelry on.

 

[AbbeyR]

wouldnt anyone, male or female driving by and seeing this site stop and ask victim if they needed help

It sounds like a few people did, but CR reassured them things were under control. The last witness to see Lauren (other than the POI) asked if she was okay:

According to the woman, Rossman replied, “She’s OK, I’ll take care of it.”

http://www.lohud.com/article/20120604/NEWS02/306040093

 

[Murakami]

-CR said he had a "theory" about what happened to Lauren
-JW and his dad confronted JR a few days afterwards
-JW was not allowed to participate in the searches
-Mr. Spierer thinks that if she never met CR, she would still be alive

 

[Skigirl]

- JW and LS had plans that night, but he gave up and went to sleep
- People JW knew witnessed or were involved in the altercation at smallwood (JW's frat members)
- Of supposed calls made by LS on JR's phone, we don't know if one was to JW
- LS's mother has revealed that LS's last cell phone use was shortly after midnight when she was still at Smallwood

 

[Jupiter812]

Two items from the lists above jump out at me:

- CR said he had a "theory" about what happened to Lauren
- LS's mother has revealed that LS's last cell phone use was shortly after midnight when she was still at Smallwood

The first one: I had forgotten about this. Interesting! Doesn't sound like he thinks it was abduction, does it? This theory could also be one which favors him of course.

The second item: In light of the info published in LoHud's anniversary article, I would say that she or someone else turned off her phone early in the eve. In my scenario I see CR doing this at his apt, before they go to Sports. In this same scenario would be a time to slip a roofie in her drink. MB was at JR's that night, so it could have been just CR and Lauren at his apt.

 

[imkeylime]

Two items from the lists above jump out at me:

- CR said he had a "theory" about what happened to Lauren
- LS's mother has revealed that LS's last cell phone use was shortly after midnight when she was still at Smallwood

The first one: I had forgotten about this. Interesting! Doesn't sound like he thinks it was abduction, does it? This theory could also be one which favors him of course.

The second item: In light of the info published in LoHud's anniversary article, I would say that she or someone else turned off her phone early in the eve. In my scenario I see CR doing this at his apt, before they go to Sports. In this same scenario would be a time to slip a roofie in her drink. MB was at JR's that night, so it could have been just CR and Lauren at his apt.

Does the comment about LS' last cell phone use suggest it was off or just that she didn't text/call from it after that point? It seems to be that more kids text than call nowadays. If her phone wasn't off, she could have been checking her texts but not answering them, but that's weird since she was supposed to meet JW later.

I'm not sure if that supports CR turning off her phone or not. I see kids check their phones continually for texts. If she'd done that, she'd have known it was off, if that was the case. OTOH, maybe things were happening fast at that point ... or she gave CR her phone to hold, and he's the one who left it at Sports.

 

[monkey222]

Do we know if LE reviewed all possible surveillance films that may have captured the named POIs vehicles starting at 3amish until a week or so after LS was reported missing? Such as any cameras positioned in Smallwood parking garages, 5North appts, on Walnut, Morton, etc.? any comings and goings? of the POIs?

 

[Jacobite]

Does the comment about LS' last cell phone use suggest it was off or just that she didn't text/call from it after that point? It seems to be that more kids text than call nowadays. If her phone wasn't off, she could have been checking her texts but not answering them, but that's weird since she was supposed to meet JW later.

I'm not sure if that supports CR turning off her phone or not. I see kids check their phones continually for texts. If she'd done that, she'd have known it was off, if that was the case. OTOH, maybe things were happening fast at that point ... or she gave CR her phone to hold, and he's the one who left it at Sports.

I believe Beau, the Spierer's detective is now saying Lauren knocked on Corey's door on her way to Sports. Yet, she had not used her cell for more than an hour by that time and this makes one wonder if someone at the Smallwood party got a hold of her phone and brought it to the bar later on.
So, maybe Lauren was sharp enough to realize when and where she really did lose her cellphone and the 2nd call at the end was indeed to the right guy.
Wonder who that is?