IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28

[akh]

All I see is circumstantial evidence leading to CR and JR, while MB seems to be an unwitting accomplice in covering for CR. The fact that these people can so easily move on with their lives shows me that they appear to be soulless. I consider people without a conscience to be sociopaths, at least to some degree.

What circumstantial evidence is there leading to CR and JR (that the public knows of)? It's questionable if even LE must not know about it by the way they are handling the case. They clearly aren't saying they weren't with her and the only circumstantial evidence I can think of just confirms what they admit to anyway.

Why couldn't JR be an unwitting accomplice in covering for CR? I don't understand how you are connecting the dots. Why couldn't MB and JR have done something after CR was passed out in bed?

How does MB escape your wrath? It seems to me in your scenario he'd be right in the middle of it no matter how you cut it. In fact, how can we not say he's the biggest duck in the pond?

And if we are to believe their stories and they are innocent, why wouldn't they be trying to move on with their lives? And for that matter how can any of us know how much this haunts them when they turn out the lights? If JR is telling the truth then I cannot imagine how much he'd wish he'd done things differently that night.

Every move they make could be interpreted to point to guilt if we only filter it thru a prism that says "they have to be the guilty party".

 

[jjenny]

You're assuming he or her felt there was any real danger with her walking out the door. I would counter that they all felt secure in this area and the gist of the situation (if it is how JR has been quoted) wasn't that far out of the usual for them.

They weren't in unfamiliar surroundings or anything.

Sounds like she could barely walk (assuming she could walk by herself at all), had no shoes, and no cell phone. It'd probably occur to most people that her walking by herself at night wasn't such a good idea.

 

[akh]

Sounds like she could barely walk (assuming she could walk by herself at all), had no shoes, and no cell phone. It'd probably occur to most people that her walking by herself at night wasn't such a good idea.

Nobody said it was a good idea and it really doesn't matter overall.... If the story is true that is what happened and she walked out the door by herself.

Her condition at that point is a matter of conjecture.

If the story is not true then why it hasn't fallen apart and been impeached by this point is something I can't figure out.

 

[imkeylime]

We mostly agree on this. Ultimately yes she could have died from natural causes or her heart condition. The fact that someone did something with her because they may have feared being blamed for giving her drugs or because they are involved with drugs seems to be the most likely explanation whether or not she actually had any in her system. The only way we would know is if her body is found and there are still traces that could be detected, also assuming it wasn't tampered with. I doubt her body will be recovered. And certainly I would rather she were alive and well. But if a body ever does turn up, It's probably long past the time where it could be linked with the long list of POI's.

While I do believe drugs were a part of the night (and am not critical of LS for that belief), it's definitely possible that she did have a long QT attack and that the POIs didn't recognize it as such. But I still struggle with why they would cover up what they thought was an OD, if she indeed took Klonopin with DR. They should have known what they did or didn't take with LS. Unless ... someone slipped her something (or did something worse).

And I apologize if I'm wrong ... it's been a long week ... but wasn't DR the one who actually took an FBI administered polygraph? It seems like taking Klonopin would have come up during that. Yet it's the other POIs who aren't talking, unless they've truly said all they know. Just throwing that out there ...

 

[imkeylime]

You're assuming he or her felt there was any real danger with her walking out the door. I would counter that they all felt secure in this area and the gist of the situation (if it is how JR has been quoted) wasn't that far out of the usual for them.

They weren't in unfamiliar surroundings or anything.

I think JR should have walked her home, if things went down as he says. But I've encountered girls younger than LS who want no part of being watched out for ... HS girls who act offended when you want to drive them to their house vs. drop them at the corner. IDK ... maybe they want to go elsewhere vs. home (which doesn't work for me as the driver).

So I could see LS wanting to walk alone at IU, if she was in a state that allowed it. JMO.

 

[jjenny]

Nobody said it was a good idea and it really doesn't matter overall.... If the story is true that is what happened and she walked out the door by herself.

Her condition at that point is a matter of conjecture.

If the story is not true then why it hasn't fallen apart and been impeached by this point is something I can't figure out.

I don't know if the story has or hasn't fallen apart. Police don't say anything, and without the body-no body, no crime.

 

[Jupiter812]

While I do believe drugs were a part of the night (and am not critical of LS for that belief), it's definitely possible that she did have a long QT attack and that the POIs didn't recognize it as such. But I still struggle with why they would cover up what they thought was an OD, if she indeed took Klonopin with DR. They should have known what they did or didn't take with LS. Unless ... someone slipped her something (or did something worse).

And I apologize if I'm wrong ... it's been a long week ... but wasn't DR the one who actually took an FBI administered polygraph? It seems like taking Klonopin would have come up during that. Yet it's the other POIs who aren't talking, unless they're truly said all they know. Just throwing that out there ...

Yes, it's been reported that DR took the FBI poly and talked to Spierer's PIs for more than two hours.

After reading your post I thought about Lauren hitting her head hard. We know now that even mild head injuries can cause death.

Something else...since it seems Lauren and CR may be on the 10th and College security cam, I would assume ZO and AB comings and goings into the building that night are recorded as well.

 

[Snapfade]

BD thinks drugs were so prevelent amongst
the college kids in bloomington that he couldnt envision the need for
Covering up an O.D.
Sounds like drugs could have been bought anywhere and if anyone provided her drugs they should have known that it would inpossible to trace it back to them . ........also, BD says that MB
made LS JR's problem.. Whats the problem...a cute girl with a buzz, knocking on your door at 3:30 in morning, cant be viewed as a problem if your a 20 yr old college student.....unless her condition was
pretty dire....BD must think it was, MB must think it was dire as well..
I'M with Blythe on JR. When LS arrive, JR doesnt at least evaluate Laurens injuries? Offer a bandaid? A washcloth? a drink of water? We are to
believe that any human being would offer little to no assistance and send her on her way shoeless , alone, impaired, and vulnerable...i dont think if she was my friend and made that trip a hundred times before that I would have let her go alone based on her not having her phone , and shoeless too? Give me break....could JR really be that self centered.

 

[imkeylime]

Yes, it's been reported that DR took the FBI poly and talked to Spierer's PIs for more than two hours.

After reading your post I thought about Lauren hitting her head hard. We know now that even mild head injuries can cause death.

Something else...since it seems Lauren and CR may be on the 10th and College security cam, I would assume ZO and AB comings and goings into the building that night are recorded as well.

Interesting thought ... abut ZO and AB's actions being recorded as well. I'd think so.

Re: LS hitting her head hard and succumbing to it. So possible ... but why would a POI feel guilty enough to dispose of her body because of it, unless they did something else nefarious? Even if CR dropped her after she hit her head ... that could have seemed accidental. Perhaps she did attempt to walk home and something horrendous happened? But then, wouldn't her body be found?

IDK. Maybe tomorrow something will make more sense?

 

[Snapfade]

BD thinks drugs were so prevelent amongst
the college kids in bloomington that he couldnt invision the need for
Covering up an O.D.
Sounds like drugs could have been bought anywhere and if anyone provided her drugs they should have known that it would inpossible to trace it back to them , so need for concern....also, BD says that MB
made LS JR's problem.. Whats the problem...a cute girl with a buzz, knocking on your door at 3:30 in morning, vant be viewed as a problem if your a 20 yr old college student.....unless hee condition was
pretty dire....BD must think it was MB must think it was.....and im with Blythe on JR. when LS arrives he doesnt at least evaluate Laurens injuries? Offer a bandaid? A washcloth? a drink of water? We are to
believe that any human being would offer little to no assistance and send her on her way shoeless , alone, impaired, and vulnerable...i dont think if she was my friend and made that trip a hundred times before that I would have let her go alone based on her noy having her phone let alone shoeless..

 

[Jupiter812]

Interesting thought ... abut ZO and AB's actions being recorded as well. I'd think so.

Re: LS hitting her head hard and succumbing to it. So possible ... but why would a POI feel guilty enough to dispose of her body because of it, unless they did something else nefarious? Even if CR dropped her after she hit her head ... that could have seemed accidental. Perhaps she did attempt to walk home and something horrendous happened? But then, wouldn't her body be found?

IDK. Maybe tomorrow something will make more sense?

Thoughts about a possible injury: I doubt CR would make the connection if she succumbed as a result of a head injury because of simple lack of knowledge about head injuries vs. knowledge of what she had in her system. Also, he was sporting his own head injury at that time and substances in his system.

The picture I have of people that night is well wasted. JR included. It's easy to say what he/they should have done but in drug- and alcohol-addled states, they are too far gone to consider concepts such as safety.

 

[Snapfade]

If JR let her go like that he is as souless as being described.

 

[akh]

I'M with Blythe on JR. When LS arrive, JR doesnt at least evaluate Laurens injuries? Offer a bandaid? A washcloth? a drink of water? We are to
believe that any human being would offer little to no assistance and send her on her way shoeless , alone, impaired, and vulnerable...i dont think if she was my friend and made that trip a hundred times before that I would have let her go alone based on her not having her phone , and shoeless too? Give me break....could JR really be that self centered.

I don't mean to be defending JR as much as to point out there are things creeping into the narrative that I'm not sure how accurate they are. So that makes it hard for me to see them as evidence of guilt.

How do we know JR didn't offer her a washcloth, a drink of water, a bandaid, etc? In fact there was supposed to be several mins she was at his apartment so just what did they do? Maybe those things are exactly what he did, as well as let her gather herself a bit.

She wasn't going on a cross town journey leaving his apartment so I think the 'no shoes' and 'no cell phone' part is a little overblown by people.

And her condition, not only at that point but other points in the night, is conjecture and rumors.

And here's something else- If JR's story is true and he's not guilty of anything except some questionable judgment in chivalry, and if he and LS were friends, would she want his name dragged thru the mud to the degree it sometimes is on the net?

 

[monkey222]

Re 4:30-8am...wristlet finder and roomate were out during that time span, separately.

 

[British]

I just noticed that sweet blush was banned. What did she do? I missed that, it must have been yesterday?

 

[IUGrad84]

And here's something else- If JR's story is true and he's not guilty of anything except some questionable judgment in chivalry, and if he and LS were friends, would she want his name dragged thru the mud to the degree it sometimes is on the net?

There are so many red flags ... including this:
http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-lauren-spierer-jay-rosenbaum-breaks-silence-on-spierer-mystery-20110829,0,6562206.column I speak to them privately. Which CS strongly disputed. I have no idea how LS would feel about the public opinion surrounding her "friends", but what I do know is that LS should be entering her senior year at IU, full of life and promise.

 

[Snapfade]

I don't mean to be defending JR as much as to point out there are things creeping into the narrative that I'm not sure how accurate they are. So that makes it hard for me to see them as evidence of guilt.

How do we know JR didn't offer her a washcloth, a drink of water, a bandaid, etc? In fact there was supposed to be several mins she was at his apartment so just what did they do? Maybe those things are exactly what he did, as well as let her gather herself a bit.

She wasn't going on a cross town journey leaving his apartment so I think the 'no shoes' and 'no cell phone' part is a little overblown by people.

And her condition, not only at that point but other points in the night, is conjecture and rumors.

And here's something else- If JR's story is true and he's not guilty of anything except some questionable judgment in chivalry, and if he and LS were friends, would she want his nadragged thru the mud to the degree it sometimes is on the net?[/QUOTE/]

Your right we do not know what assistance JR offered Lauren. Either way you look at it JR name will be tarnished either with suspision or selfishness.. Guilty of questionable judgment?? What other decisions did he make that morning that might be guilty of...It angers me , if JR is telling the truth, that Lauren would not be missing, if she had arrived that morning at just about any other door in bloominton.

 

[imkeylime]

Thoughts about a possible injury: I doubt CR would make the connection if she succumbed as a result of a head injury because of simple lack of knowledge about head injuries vs. knowledge of what she had in her system. Also, he was sporting his own head injury at that time and substances in his system.

The picture I have of people that night is well wasted. JR included. It's easy to say what he/they should have done but in drug- and alcohol-addled states, they are too far gone to consider concepts such as safety.

I woke up thinking again that the mystery man or CR might have dropped her ... and then thought he'd killed her—her previous falls, long QT syndrome, or even a combo could have helped. If someone dropped her, thought he'd killed her, and had a prior arrest record, he might freak out. Re: CR's condition: While I find his amnesia awfully convenient, it seems verified that he was hit in the face and went down at SW, and that he was intoxicated.

And yes, I suspect they were so wasted that good decision making went out the window.

 

[Jacobite]

The Bloomington, Indiana Police asked these boys to not discuss this case with anyone. They seem to have complied with a request that has been turned around in the media to imply an admission of guilt. The public wants them to speak up and clear their names. Should they defy the request of BPD, that they remain silent. I likely would, because I would have to clear my name
Anyway, I want the person who took Lauren away to pay dearly. But, I also want to find who really did it. Not just anyone will do. I want the real bad boy.
Would you defy the police and speak up?

 

[Jupiter812]

I don't mean to be defending JR as much as to point out there are things creeping into the narrative that I'm not sure how accurate they are. So that makes it hard for me to see them as evidence of guilt.

How do we know JR didn't offer her a washcloth, a drink of water, a bandaid, etc? In fact there was supposed to be several mins she was at his apartment so just what did they do? Maybe those things are exactly what he did, as well as let her gather herself a bit.

She wasn't going on a cross town journey leaving his apartment so I think the 'no shoes' and 'no cell phone' part is a little overblown by people.

And her condition, not only at that point but other points in the night, is conjecture and rumors.

And here's something else- If JR's story is true and he's not guilty of anything except some questionable judgment in chivalry, and if he and LS were friends, would she want his name dragged thru the mud to the degree it sometimes is on the net?

Now you’re really reaching and trying too hard with the JR defense.

1. A salient point such as JR administering first aid would have made it into the PI’s stories.
2. Her condition is not conjecture and rumors. Eye witnesses and security cam evidence are not rumors. The severity of her condition and what exactly caused it is conjecture.
3. Using Lauren to garner sympathy for JR? Ick. That's just wrong. No, not until he is cleared of being a POI.