IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28

[Jupiter812]

The Bloomington, Indiana Police asked these boys to not discuss this case with anyone. They seem to have complied with a request that has been turned around in the media to imply an admission of guilt. The public wants them to speak up and clear their names. Should they defy the request of BPD, that they remain silent. I likely would, because I would have to clear my name
Anyway, I want the person who took Lauren away to pay dearly. But, I also want to find who really did it. Not just anyone will do. I want the real bad boy.
Would you defy the police and speak up?

Not true. See CS's and RS's letters published to and interviews with the media.

 

[Jacobite]

Not true. See CS's and RS's letters published to and interviews with the media.

Wrong! The police asked these guys to not discuss the case with anyone. And, I think this has been extremely cruel and unfair to Lauren's family. I have read her mother's letters. Also, see the latest picture of Lauren and her mother. See them smiling together in happier times. I hate looking at what this is doing to her mom. It's killing her and that too makes me angry.

Yes, these guys should speak up and defy the Bloomington Police because Lauren's family deserve answers. If these guys are innocent? They must tell all they know. They need to clear their names. The Spierer family and the public demand this of them.

 

[Jupiter812]

Wrong! The police asked these guys to not discuss the case with anyone. And, I think this has been extremely cruel and unfair to Lauren's family. I have read her mother's letters. Also, see the latest picture of Lauren and her mother. See them smiling together in happier times. I hate looking at what this is doing to her mom. It's killing her and that too makes me angry.

Yes, these guys should speak up and defy the Bloomington Police because Lauren's family deserve answers. If these guys are innocent? They must tell all they know. They need to clear their names. The Spierer family and the public demand this of them.

Sorry, Jacobite. I may have misread your comment and we may be saying two different things. The point I was trying to make is that many of us, the public included, take our cues from the Spierer's, RS in particular during interviews with the media. He has said he believes JR is withholding info and that he should have done more to help Lauren, and he has said that CR is a coward.

 

[Jacobite]

Sorry, Jacobite. I may have misread your comment and we may be saying two different things. The point I was trying to make is that many of us, the public included, take our cues from the Spierer's, RS in particular during interviews with the media. He has said he believes JR is withholding info and that he should have done more to help Lauren, and he has said that CR is a coward.

I think all of us just want answers. We want Lauren to be found and the bad guy locked up.

 

[akh]

Now you’re really reaching and trying too hard with the JR defense.

1. A salient point such as JR administering first aid would have made it into the PI’s stories.
2. Her condition is not conjecture and rumors. Eye witnesses and security cam evidence are not rumors. The severity of her condition and what exactly caused it is conjecture.
3. Using Lauren to garner sympathy for JR? Ick. That's just wrong. No, not until he is cleared of being a POI.

Let me put it this way.... The problem I am seeing is people are forgetting the 'if' in these narratives they are creating. Speculation is now being told as if it is fact.

Someone opines that JR didn't offer her a washcloth, or a bandaid, etc etc and I basically reply "how do you know he didn't?". Then you reply "a salient point such as JR administering first aid would have made it into the PI's stories".

First, that is again speculation on what the PI's would do. They might, they might not. Secondly (and probably more importantly) we don't know she was in need of first aid.

We don't know what went on at the apartment. Period.

Emotion is starting to trump logic. That's what I'm saying.

It very well could be JR is guilty of LS's disappearance but conclusions of guilt can't come from things that are not in evidence and created out of thin air.

 

[Jupiter812]

Let me put it this way.... The problem I am seeing is people are forgetting the 'if' in these narratives they are creating. Speculation is now being told as if it is fact.

Someone opines that JR didn't offer her a washcloth, or a bandaid, etc etc and I basically reply "how do you know he didn't?". Then you reply "a salient point such as JR administering first aid would have made it into the PI's stories".

First, that is again speculation on what the PI's would do. They might, they might not. Secondly (and probably more importantly) we don't know she was in need of first aid.

We don't know what went on at the apartment. Period.

Emotion is starting to trump logic. That's what I'm saying.

It very well could be JR is guilty of LS's disappearance but conclusions of guilt can't come from things that are not in evidence and created out of thin air.

As someone recently said, speculate is what we do here. As I've said, this is not a courtroom. Everything is just one person's opinion and take on the case. Simple as that.

We KNOW it is not known whether certain things are fact or not. You don't have to point it out to us, lol. You are stating, and over-stating, again and again, the obvious.

 

[akh]

The 'if' is missing in the speculation now. It's now 'facts' and stories coming from out of thin air.

Emotion is trumping logic.

 

[Snapfade]

The 'if' is missing in the speculation now. It's now 'facts' and stories coming from out of thin air.

Emotion is trumping logic.

Fair Enough '..Point Taken...!!! IF Lauren would have arrived at your home that morning, would she
be missing?

 

[Blythe]

The Big "If", Snapfade, courtesy of Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young

"What if you knew her. And found her dead on the ground. How can you run when you know"?

I no longer want to believe that our fellow uni students will dispose of our body. So when I hear she could have walked out on her own power, I say "Yeah". She got lost and collapsed. Some random uncivilized psychopath found her. But no, not our future leaders.

 

[bessie]

Anyone else unable to access Thread #27? It bounces me back here.

The link was bad, Jupiter. I fixed it, so it should work for you now.

 

[friendsara]

The 'if' is missing in the speculation now. It's now 'facts' and stories coming from out of thin air.

Emotion is trumping logic.

This isn't an attack, but a real question - how do you think we should go about talking about the case? What needs to change? The "emotion trumping logic" thing...I don't think anyone is being "illogical." People are speculating and making assumptions...logical assumptions, IMO. And also that seems like some thinly veiled gender coding? idk

 

[akh]

This isn't an attack, but a real question - how do you think we should go about talking about the case? What needs to change? The "emotion trumping logic" thing...I don't think anyone is being "illogical." People are speculating and making assumptions...logical assumptions, IMO. And also that seems like some thinly veiled gender coding? idk

I think things work better when someone puts forth a theory and posters either tweak it and strengthen it or try and blow holes in it.

But getting all worked up and declaring JR guilty because he didn't apply first-aid or comfort when we have no idea if first aid was even needed, or if it was what he might've done. I mean I don't even know where that kind of statement comes from. Talk about assuming facts that are not in evidence. I just don't see how that is productive. I also don't see how getting worked up over the word 'amnesia' versus 'memory loss' or 'blacked out' is productive. Let alone when we don't even know what phrase CR used in the first place. Then the misinformation of someone telling us that the lawyer is bound by CR's own words and whatever the lawyer says has to be exactly what CR said. That couldn't be any more inaccurate. And yet, that was someone's piece of the puzzle to declare CR guilty.

That's not really speculation or rumors, that's just WAGS with no basis in any known information.

My opinion is I can't see any productive value in that type of thing.

IOW, if you're gonna tell us why someone has to be guilty then it needs to be based on something tangible that is in the existing narrative (IMHO) and you can't be wrong about something, operating on misinformation, and not expect someone to point that out.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

My question about the theory that LS never made it back to 5N is if she didn't then how does JR know about her facial injuries?

 

[masootz]

i agree with akh. ive read through all of the previous threads for lauren spierer and holly bobo and one thing i've noticed is that someone will bring up an idea as a theory and then ten pages later someone else is referencing it as a fact. the line between fact and guesses gets blurred way too easily on here. i'd vote for a push to separate fact from assumptions or ideas by using colored text, although i don't know if that would be too much of a hassle.

i just think we don't get anywhere when someone says something like (im making this up to make a point) - "we should look more into the white truck because the mickey shuner case had a white truck" and then five pages later someone else is saying "i remember reading that le thinks the mickey shuner truck might be involved". we then spend exhaustive time going back over the same thing and repeating that "no, le checked out the truck and driver and it was legit".

just my 2 cents.

 

[Jupiter812]

Good luck with that, y'all!

 

[Darcyline]

I feel like every case has that happen. It can be annoying, but I am not sure how to eliminate it. I have seen people even say "I think" or "Maybe" or "What If" and then somehow someone either read too fast or didn't have time to read every page and that clear theory is taken as fact. So, is the person at fault who actually said what if...when proposing a theory or do we blame the person who didn't have time to read 20 something threads on Lauren?
I just think it is something that happens and I would rather occasionally correct someone who has taken something as fact when it is theory as opposed to kick people out of the thread and have less people discussing it. At this point, any attention on Lauren feels like something that needs to be cultivated rather than shut down.

Certain aspects of this case disturb me even more than just the occasional misunderstanding of theory=fact. Like, we have POIs who are considered guilty and disgusting people who have never, ever been actually tied to the case in any tangible way by LE or MSM. Their involvement literally emerged from internet forums and rumors. That seems problematic to me. A lot of what we know or think we know came from a random "friend" of Lauren's who seemed to love the cameras and gave a few interviews about what she "heard" happened. That seems problematic to me. Both create a narrative for the night that people accept as fact when we really may be mistaken.

 

[Jacobite]

My question about the theory that LS never made it back to 5N is if she didn't then how does JR know about her facial injuries?

I believe this theory is based on a report from a tracking dog that was never made public.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

I believe this theory is based on a report from a tracking dog that was never made public.

I'm sorry I'm not trying to be daft, but I don't understand. Can you explain how the undisclosed tracking dog report connects to JR knowing, without having seen the security videos of LS falling and without hearing it from CR who wouldn't be able to tell him because he can't remember it, that she had blackening eyes and all of that?
I'm not intentionally trying to sound challenging, If I do. I'm really trying to understand the connection of these two things or find out what I've possibly missed or misunderstood about how JR would know she was injured if she didn't make it back there after she allegedly left CR with MB.

 

[Jacobite]

According to the female witness who saw Lauren fall, Lauren fell backwards, that would not cause black eyes. Next an Alley cam that was not at all in sync with real time, shows Lauren falling in the area where she drops her gold key. This time she falls face down.
Wouldn't your nose get in the way of getting black eyes from this. JR may have seen black eyes, but the most common cause of black eyes is lack of sleep. That fits. When did JR really see black eyes?

 

[kdblaisdell]

Actually, hitting your nose can cause black eyes. I know this because I'm gifted and talented that way, unfortunately.