IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

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imkeylime said:
Snipped by me. I understand how you feel. What I try to do is impart an understanding of safety in my daughter and the girls she socializes with on Lauren's behalf. They have a need for independence that supersedes their understanding of safety, IMO. Doing so won't bring Lauren back, but I joined this board because she reminded me of my daughter in many ways.

While I'm not sure if walking alone contributed to her disappearance, I do know that trusting a young man she didn't know couldn't have helped matters. So I talk about both ... no walking alone, no trusting those who might not have your back. I think young women need to stick together. And of course I speak of alcohol and drugs. But they're out there, I know.

I hope Lauren's mother and father know that we still have her (and them) in our thoughts.
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I went back and found your post because an event this week was so related to what you posted, it's almost uncanny!

A friend of my sons, a female, celebrated her 21st birthday this week and called my son in what could best be called a drunken stupor. She is obviously not a drinker but celebrated her 21st in not the best way, shall we say. She called my son at 11:00 p.m., shortly after he had gotten home from his after-school job. I was still awake and overheard the conversation. I was so proud of my son as he told her to pull over (yes, she was driving :(), lock her doors, and to wait for him to arrive. He picked her up and brought her here and called her parents to let them know where she was, I spoke with them as well, and we all agreed she should stay put so we got her settled in our guest room and checked on her throughout the night. The fact that she had been celebrating with mutual friends, who let her leave in her car, driving, and by herself, really set my son off and he spent the next day chiding their mutual friends on what could have happened but luckily didn't.

I have talked to my son about Lauren and I would like to think that his actions that evening were a reflection of our talks. I was very proud of how protective he was of his friend. I only wish Lauren's friends had done the same.
 
Kadence said:
I went back and found your post because an event this week was so related to what you posted, it's almost uncanny!

A friend of my sons, a female, celebrated her 21st birthday this week and called my son in what could best be called a drunken stupor. She is obviously not a drinker but celebrated her 21st in not the best way, shall we say. She called my son at 11:00 p.m., shortly after he had gotten home from his after-school job. I was still awake and overheard the conversation. I was so proud of my son as he told her to pull over (yes, she was driving :(), lock her doors, and to wait for him to arrive. He picked her up and brought her here and called her parents to let them know where she was, I spoke with them as well, and we all agreed she should stay put so we got her settled in our guest room and checked on her throughout the night. The fact that she had been celebrating with mutual friends, who let her leave in her car, driving, and by herself, really set my son off and he spent the next day chiding their mutual friends on what could have happened but luckily didn't.

I have talked to my son about Lauren and I would like to think that his actions that evening were a reflection of our talks. I was very proud of how protective he was of his friend. I only wish Lauren's friends had done the same.
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Your son's friend is so lucky to have him and you, Kadence. That's scary ... especially the driving part (and that mutual friends let her do it). It's wonderful that your son intervened the way he did. :)

I can only think that a little intervention might have saved LS that night. If the rumors are true and she was "foaming at the mouth" at Kilroys, someone could have intervened. And if she indeed stumbled out of the elevator at SW, someone could have intervened. IMO, CR acted in his own best interest that night. Certainly not LS'.

Hopefully someone acts in her interest soon.
 
Kadence said:
One month from today, it will be two years since Lauren disappeared. Today, she should have also graduated with her class, yet someone took that opportunity away from her as well as shattered her family's lives. Today, her fellow graduates put #63 (June 3rd) on the back of their hands and #FindLauren on the top of their graduation caps. They also observed a moment of silence in her honor. On probably one of the most exciting days of their lives, they stopped to honor a fellow classmate. Nicely done and so appreciated by me.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/iu-class-of-2013-graduates-without-lauren-spierer

Someone knows and someone is going to be found out and I believe it will be soon. It's time.

In the meantime, I'm ready for tomorrow - let's hope our positive energy contributes to bringing her home.
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That was a very nice way for her classmates to remember her on what would have been her graduation day.

Did any of the guys she was with that night graduate from IU this weekend as well? Or were they older & already graduated?
 
AbbeyR said:
Ah, that makes sense. But, what kind of charges do you think they could pressure them with? Wouldn't drug charges only apply if they were actually found in possession of or dealing drugs at the time?
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Well, if drugs are as prominent as the narrative would lead us to believe then it shouldn't have been too hard to have caught the cast of characters one way or the other involved in drugs before or at any point following the event.
 
cluciano63 said:
I doubt cause of death can even be determined if and when Lauren is found, at this point. So it will be very difficult to make any kind of a murder case or even manslaughter, IMO.
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Seeing as how that's more than likely true, I hope someone who knows where Lauren is recognizes that as well, and just anonymously sends in the information of where she is.
 
Most kidnapped girls never try to escape or contact the outside world because of the Stockholm Syndrome. The-case of Amanda Berry is unique indeed.
 
imkeylime said:
Your son's friend is so lucky to have him and you, Kadence. That's scary ... especially the driving part (and that mutual friends let her do it). It's wonderful that your son intervened the way he did. :)

I can only think that a little intervention might have saved LS that night. If the rumors are true and she was "foaming at the mouth" at Kilroys, someone could have intervened. And if she indeed stumbled out of the elevator at SW, someone could have intervened. IMO, CR acted in his own best interest that night. Certainly not LS'.

Hopefully someone acts in her interest soon.
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I was watching a show called Fatal Encounters the other day on Investigation Discovery. I started watching partway thru the episode so I didn't really get what was going on, but there was an interview with a woman whose son had been murdered and she said something about (given the circumstances leading up to the murder) there were 32 people who could have prevented his death by contacting police at any point the day of or the 3 days leading up to the murder. It reminded me of Lauren...the bystander effect in action, again. As you said there were so many opportunities for intervention.
 
I'm not sure why, but I'm super curious as to how JW is doing. Unlike the other POIs, my initial perception of him isn't one of a 'monster', or a heartless individual. It's emotionally difficult enough to go certain places and recall memories after a breakup, let alone a 2 year episode like this when your girlfriend suddenly goes missing, and there's little to no information about what happened. Not to mention, absolutely no closure.
 
PlainJaneDoe said:
I was watching a show called Fatal Encounters the other day on Investigation Discovery. I started watching partway thru the episode so I didn't really get what was going on, but there was an interview with a woman whose son had been murdered and she said something about (given the circumstances leading up to the murder) there were 32 people who could have prevented his death by contacting police at any point the day of or the 3 days leading up to the murder. It reminded me of Lauren...the bystander effect in action, again. As you said there were so many opportunities for intervention.
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Sadly, I think it's natural instinct to not want to get involved in the lives of people we don't know, i.e., the bystander effect you mention. I'm sure that did happen with LS. It appears that a couple of people questioned her condition that night, but CR obviously brushed them off. And since it's hard to intervene in the first place, being forceful about it didn't happen.

I hate to admit I've kind of done that myself. I witnessed an incident in which a young man who apparently caused a serious accident was being treated poorly by a police officer. While I didn't see the cars collide, I saw a contributing factor (another car weaving in and out of traffic). The young man jumped from his car and tried to help the older man in the car he hit. The young man did the right thing and was crying. I wish I'd stayed with him, but since I didn't see the accident per se, the officer told me to leave. I'm sad to say I left. I regret that to this day.

The POIs, OTOH, weren't bystanders, and should have had a vested interest in helping their friend, above and beyond determining if she could walk straight. I go back to the image I have of my mind of LS at JR's apartment, based on what we've been told. She thought an I-pod was a phone and had a bruise on her face that she couldn't explain. That alone doesn't add up with him letting her leave a short time later.
 
I must truly wonder. Could detective Bill Warner be right? http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/missing-petite-blonde-females-may-be-victims-of-international-human-sex-trafficking-ring-says-fbi/

Long ago, I posted about the gang graffiti right in the area where Lauren went missing.
I was told by a friend who works for President Obama that it represented the Darko gang
and they deal in drugs and human trafficking. Yet, on this board, people laughed and stated fans of a guy delivering tacos were simply advertising.

Then, I reported to the Bloomington Police that 2 months after Lauren went missing, I was in Bloomington. A dark skinned man came rushing after a blonde haired woman near 10th and College Village Apartments. That's the last place Lauren was seen.

I really don't know what happened to Lauren. But, was she kidnapped? She could still be out there.

I know we have been trying to add things up. But there is possibly a fatal mistake in the main theories. There were no cameras on the path that Lauren Spierer was said to have taken down College Avenue. I can't prove we have a liar and I wonder what really happened?
 
Jacobite said:
I must truly wonder. Could detective Bill Warner be right? http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/missing-petite-blonde-females-may-be-victims-of-international-human-sex-trafficking-ring-says-fbi/

Long ago, I posted about the gang graffiti right in the area where Lauren went missing.
I was told by a friend who works for President Obama that it represented the Darko gang
and they deal in drugs and human trafficking. Yet, on this board, people laughed and stated fans of a guy delivering tacos were simply advertising.

Then, I reported to the Bloomington Police that 2 months after Lauren went missing, I was in Bloomington. A dark skinned man came rushing after a blonde haired woman near 10th and College Village Apartments. That's the last place Lauren was seen.

I really don't know what happened to Lauren. But, was she kidnapped? She could still be out there.

I know we have been trying to add things up. But there is possibly a fatal mistake in the main theories. There were no cameras on the path that Lauren Spierer was said to have taken down College Avenue. I can't prove we have a liar and I wonder what really happened?
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I realize this is a total long shot, but is there any possible way to reconcile POI involvement with the gang activity you mention? It's not that I don't believe that gang-related or random abductions can happen ... they obviously do ... but the POIs' actions that night seem to suspect to me, i.e., MB's constantly changing story, JR letting her leave after noting her condition, etc. There was talk awhile back about a man approaching her at Sports and asking if she wanted to do drugs. I've never heard much else about that, though ...
 
imkeylime said:
MB's constantly changing story.
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Has MB even spoken to the press and been directly quoted? I'd caution against putting too much weight on his 'constantly changing story' because I've lost track if we've even heard directly from him but we have heard differing stories from other people. And none of these people have we had the opportunity to question or hear questioned.

So it ends up being a little bit of the telephone game.

And if experience with the telephone game isn't enough to call into question these 2nd and 3rd hand reports, then just look at the actual early reporting of the case. How many times was the reporting confused between CR and JR and their parts of the story?

So, IOW, we've not heard MB's story change one iota but we have heard varying 2nd and 3rd hand accounts of it that have changed. I'd venture to say if MB's story really constantly changed LE would've been all over that. LE has had the ability to question the people these reports came from so, unlike us, they have the ability to have some clarity we just can't get.

We keep looking for the smoking gun but the truth is that something needs to be vastly changed and new to the equation to be the smoking gun or we're at best dealing with incomplete information and at worst must think LE (and the PI's) must be morons or incompetent for missing things so obvious.
 
imkeylime said:
Sadly, I think it's natural instinct to not want to get involved in the lives of people we don't know, i.e., the bystander effect you mention. I'm sure that did happen with LS. It appears that a couple of people questioned her condition that night, but CR obviously brushed them off. And since it's hard to intervene in the first place, being forceful about it didn't happen.

I hate to admit I've kind of done that myself. I witnessed an incident in which a young man who apparently caused a serious accident was being treated poorly by a police officer. While I didn't see the cars collide, I saw a contributing factor (another car weaving in and out of traffic). The young man jumped from his car and tried to help the older man in the car he hit. The young man did the right thing and was crying. I wish I'd stayed with him, but since I didn't see the accident per se, the officer told me to leave. I'm sad to say I left. I regret that to this day.

The POIs, OTOH, weren't bystanders, and should have had a vested interest in helping their friend, above and beyond determining if she could walk straight. I go back to the image I have of my mind of LS at JR's apartment, based on what we've been told. She thought an I-pod was a phone and had a bruise on her face that she couldn't explain. That alone doesn't add up with him letting her leave a short time later.
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Yah...I totally hear you. And really, it can be very hard to decide whether it is better to step in or not...as you said, sometimes you regret doing nothing, but sometimes I feel like given the situation, my particular attempt to intervene is not gonna make the situation any better y'know?

Regarding your thoughts on the POIs, it could add up with him letting her leave if he was more concerned about the possible consequences of something happening to her at his apt. It is cold but maybe he/they were less concerned about something happening to her than about something happening to her in their apartment. If someone starts to have a health crisis in your apt, you gotta either get them help yourself, or call 911. And if you're intoxicated/incapacitated, or have drugs/paraphernalia lying about, neither of those options looks too good. In contrast, if the person has a health crisis while they're walking down the street, hey, "someone" will help, right? (Ok, no that's not right, but my point is that this could've been part of the thought process).
 
PlainJaneDoe said:
Yah...I totally hear you. And really, it can be very hard to decide whether it is better to step in or not...as you said, sometimes you regret doing nothing, but sometimes I feel like given the situation, my particular attempt to intervene is not gonna make the situation any better y'know?

Regarding your thoughts on the POIs, it could add up with him letting her leave if he was more concerned about the possible consequences of something happening to her at his apt. It is cold but maybe he/they were less concerned about something happening to her than about something happening to her in their apartment. If someone starts to have a health crisis in your apt, you gotta either get them help yourself, or call 911. And if you're intoxicated/incapacitated, or have drugs/paraphernalia lying about, neither of those options looks too good. In contrast, if the person has a health crisis while they're walking down the street, hey, "someone" will help, right? (Ok, no that's not right, but my point is that this could've been part of the thought process).
Click to expand...

That's a really good point about a possible reason for JR letting her leave. I can see someone who's been partying all night himself thinking that. Absolutely no excuse, obviously, but I think it would be wrong to not consider that.
 
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