IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

[Jacobite]

Wait, didn't you also later add that you saw two guys speed away in a blue car, and then you later sat down at a bar (Maybe even Kilroy's?) next to two guys that you recognized from Gatto's blog (implying it was ZO and friend) and that they were on the phone with a "Jay"?

(I'm too lazy to search for this post, but I'm pretty sure that was the gist of it. ) So, how does this part of your story fit in?

Don't take my skepticism personally, I think sometimes we have little pieces of information and it can be easy to read stories into them that are suggested by others. We all do this, and it's because we want to find Lauren. But some of theories seem pretty far fetched, IMO. For example, all I see with the Bill Warner theory is that he made a list of missing blonde girls. Are there suspects and evidence in the other cases? Is there any evidence pointing to the idea that it is a trucker or sex-traffic ring, or whatever, beyond just the idea that it could be?

I get that you, and others, have the same criticism about theories concerning the POI. But the difference is that they were actually named Persons of Interest by LE. They are the last to be seen with Lauren, and their stories don't add up.

I'm sorry Abbey. I have only posted the short version online. The government has the long version. The little blue car was not added later in a recollection. It was always there. Did I ever mention that we had a camera?
A dark skinned man came charging after a blonde haired woman who was with me in August of 2011. It happened in the alley near 10th and College Village where Lauren dropped her keys and was last seen on video.
The man suddenly stopped when he saw the blonde was not alone. A car comes rushing to meet him and they speed towards Smallwood. But this is not the end of the story. They turn around and came back again. The blonde jumps behind a pole at 10th and College Village and snapped their picture. Two guys are in the car. One in front, the other by himself in the back seat. No one was on the passenger side of that car.
We showed that photo to a commander of the US Navy Seals. He is a guy who has plenty of experience with abductions in the Middle Eastern Wars.
He explained how this might have been the real thing. One guy sits in the front to drive the car. The other in the back to control the girl. That's how you do an abduction.

We still have the photo and it is time and date stamped. It's not a fake.
I have not posted it here because the people are visible in the car.

Now as far as me doing some drinking at Sports, I was thirsty. You can't be too surprised that Lauren's friends would also be there as the place is in the shadow of Smallwood. The person who sat right next to me was not ZO and in fact was not a guy.

The last public statement from the police says no one has been cleared. So, I don't know who took Lauren. But, I agree with Rob Spierer. It was someone connected to that night and that area.

 

[LongTallTexan]

"... -- and of course security footage shows that at least one of her friends wasn't being truthful. So it's easy to place blame in the direction of the young men that last saw the missing coed."

I'm curious, which video (security footage) shows that one of men to last see isn't being truthful?

http://www.examiner.com/article/parents-don-t-think-lauren-spierer-was-kidnapped

 

[BCityBird]

I was google searching for some news on Lauren and an auto-complete search came up for "lauren spierer's hiding place", a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lauren-Spierers-Hiding-Place/198752996841009 What do you all make of this? Has anyone ever mentioned/seen this? Just thought it was curious and have been following these forums and did not see anyone bring it up before.

Especially curious because it provides a location. Not sure if this some kind of joke, but you never know.

 

[Dixie811]

I was google searching for some news on Lauren and an auto-complete search came up for "lauren spierer's hiding place", a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lauren-Spierers-Hiding-Place/198752996841009 What do you all make of this? Has anyone ever mentioned/seen this? Just thought it was curious and have been following these forums and did not see anyone bring it up before.

Wait what the heck is this page??

It says 7 people have liked the page, and 22 people have "been here". I believe for Facebook to say you have "been there" you would have to "check-in" to that location via facebook.

This is weird and I would love to know what anyone knows about this page. I am quite sure that this page has nothing to do with Lauren's actual whereabouts, but I would love to know who created this page and for what purpose.

 

[rocket-dog]

I was google searching for some news on Lauren and an auto-complete search came up for "lauren spierer's hiding place", a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lauren-Spierers-Hiding-Place/198752996841009 What do you all make of this? Has anyone ever mentioned/seen this? Just thought it was curious and have been following these forums and did not see anyone bring it up before.

I wonder what is located at the map pin in real life? Looks to be off the street.

 

[LongTallTexan]

Especially curious because it provides a location. Not sure if this some kind of joke, but you never know.

Is the interpretation that the location is in Bloomington (the pointer on the map I believe is a generic place holder for the general city of Bloomington, not a specific location) or is there some other location on the page that I'm missing?

TIA

 

[BCityBird]

I wonder what is located at the map pin in real life? Looks to be off the street.

If zoom in and click satellite view, you see that it is someone's backyard.

http://binged.it/14to7bk

 

[rocket-dog]

Is the interpretation that the location is in Bloomington (the pointer on the map I believe is a generic place holder for the general city of Bloomington, not a specific location) or is there some other location on the page that I'm missing?

TIA

Oops, you're right. Generic place holder.

 

[Dixie811]

Seems that the mapped location has no significance. Good catch LongTallTexan, that this is a generic placeholder for Bloomington.

Still want to know about this page.. who? and why?

 

[BCityBird]

Alright. Was not sure if it was a generic place holder or not. I thought the when it was a generic place holder it just mapped bloomington from a zoomed out location and not anything direct like given in the map there. But I guess I was wrong. Still somewhat interesting and I wish I knew the origins of the page. Two people publicly like the page, someone should write them and ask them!

 

[BCityBird]

Bing's generic place holder for Bloomington takes me to a different location. So I am not sure if we can be confident it is just a generic place holder. Still probably nothing significant, but who knows. For what its worth, both people who publicly like the page are friends. http://binged.it/16CryR8

 

[LongTallTexan]

I think it's more of a Facebook placeholder that indicates that location than Bing, you're right, Bing gives another location. The up-side-down teardrop placeholder is from FB, so maybe that's the discrepancy.

@ BCityBird...the people who publicly like the page are friends of who? on FB? TIA

 

[BCityBird]

I think it's more of a Facebook placeholder that indicates that location than Bing, you're right, Bing gives another location. The up-side-down teardrop placeholder is from FB, so maybe that's the discrepancy.

@ BCityBird...the people who publicly like the page are friends of who? on FB? TIA

They are friends with each other on FB. Only one of them has their friend lists open for public viewing. I searched for then names of POI and found nothing. These are their facebook profiles. Probably a bad joke.
https://www.facebook.com/thekenbrown
https://www.facebook.com/ptrainmurray

 

[BCityBird]

I think it's more of a Facebook placeholder that indicates that location than Bing, you're right, Bing gives another location. The up-side-down teardrop placeholder is from FB, so maybe that's the discrepancy.

@ BCityBird...the people who publicly like the page are friends of who? on FB? TIA

facebook maps are powered by bing. I got both of those links after clicking on the facebook map location.

 

[AbbeyR]

3) Discussions about LS attempting to procure drugs after she could no longer stand up or was conscious. Sorry this does not make any sense. I don't buy the idea that LS would go to clearly dangerous House Bar ALONE, BAREFOOT, BROKE, PHONELESS (with only KEYCARD and FAKE ID) in search of "free" cocaine. This is simply a theory to validate JR's implausible version of events. Seems unlikely she was begging for coke at Kilroy's too. Previous stories have indicated the exact opposite - that she was shooting her mouth off about being high on coke and xanax. This is trying to build more smoke and mirrors out of smoke and mirrors, it's pretty much useless. There is no indication that LS and CR were followed by anyone from Kilroy's there is a camera and witness trail right until that last (and possibly fatal) fall (nearly 1 hr after leaving Kilroy's). There are only 2 pieces of evidence that indicate Lauren was alive after that final recorded fall. Statements from MB and Statements from JR. These statements are in stark contrast to one another and moreover Lauren's recorded condition. MB and JR can't be believed and so hypothesizing around remote possibilites based on remote possibilities is pretty much fantasy. There is nothing to indicate that LS had ever been to House Bar before, much less alone! There is nothing in her behavior consistent with that of a coke *advertiser censored* (which is what she would be in that scenario). Partying with affluent college friends is WAY different than a trashy indigent addict spreading it for couple of lines. What a bizarre desecration of Lauren this image would be... and the only one to benefit - JR! Nonsense!

Agree with your whole post, but especially this.

Nothing about that story about the hispanic guy at Kilroy's sounds realistic to me. I believe Jupiter heard this story, but my guess is that it's just a version of the two rumors that came from Gatto's blog: Dark skinned mystery man and the story about Lauren talking about drugs --both of which turned out not to be true.

Same with the House Bar. I might feel differently if there was a smidgen of evidence to support she went there. Or even left JR's. Or maybe even if the POI's stories actually made sense.

 

[AbbeyR]

I'm sorry Abbey. I have only posted the short version online. The government has the long version. The little blue car was not added later in a recollection. It was always there. Did I ever mention that we had a camera?<Snipped for space>

The last public statement from the police says no one has been cleared. So, I don't know who took Lauren. But, I agree with Rob Spierer. It was someone connected to that night and that area.

I agree too, and thanks for clearing up your story about the guy in the alley.

 

[cluciano63]

I think Bill Warner is just trying to make a name for himself. He includes cases such as Paige and Katelyn, who IMO have fairly obvious POI's, even if not enough evidence, as well as others with violent exes or current boyfriends, etc. or had weird, violent nights like Kortne and Lauren.

I don't buy his theory at all. This wandering abductor would have to be Johnny on the Spot all over the country at the very moment these girls were alone.

 

[akh]

@Akh



TIA

You really need to speak to an attorney you know and respect who will tell you exactly what I've told you so that you can get some clarity on this subject. Yes a lawyer works on behalf of a client. The lawyer is an advocate for his client.

A lawyer speaking to the press is not under oath. A lawyer paraphrasing, recalling, and ultimately using his own words when speaking to the press should never be considered to be the same as the client speaking for himself (or the attorney reading a prepared statement from his client).

This assumes the lawyer is trying to be truthful to the best of his recollection and understanding). There's also this:

The Role of the Lawyer in the Criminal Justice System

Criminal Law & Procedure Practice Group Newsletter - Volume 2, Issue 3, Winter 1998

December 1, 1998
Samuel A. Alito

....
Consider the comments by a very well-respected lawyer who wrote an article entitled "Why Lawyers Lie". The author begins by setting out the traditional gladiatorial role of the criminal practitioner. The lawyer, he writes, is not quite given James Bond's license to kill, but it is proper and, at times, even necessary for a criminal practitioner to lie to the public and to the media on behalf of a client. The public statements of prosecutors and defense counsel, he says, must be viewed with the greatest skepticism.
....

Judge Alito goes on to say he doesn't agree with that approach ethically but that's not to say it's legally wrong.

So if Judge Alito agrees that attorneys can even lie to the media how does this support your position that we should always consider what an attorney says to the media as wholly accurate and as good as hearing from his client himself?

 

[akh]

I don't buy his theory at all. This wandering abductor would have to be Johnny on the Spot all over the country at the very moment these girls were alone.

I don't necessary buy his theory either but I think you make a leap in logic when you say "This wandering abductor would have to be Johnny on the Spot all over the country at the very moment these girls were alone."

That wouldn't have to be the case at all. If Johnny on the Spot decided to go to the areas where these girls were abducted it wouldn't be to abduct any one of them in particular. He'd simply being going somewhere he feels the odds are good he will be able to find a random victim at some point.

I don't know enough about the other cases to know if any or all were from areas where Johnny on the Spot could reasonably expect he would find a victim but I'd think Bloomington, IN (college town, bar area) would certainly fit that profile.

So if anything it wouldn't be that Johnny on the Spot was really a 'Johnny on the Spot'... it would instead be that each of the girls just happened to be the unlucky ones that crossed his path when he saw opportunity in the area he was trolling. Wrong place... right time...

 

[masootz]

I don't necessary buy his theory either but I think you make a leap in logic when you say "This wandering abductor would have to be Johnny on the Spot all over the country at the very moment these girls were alone."

That wouldn't have to be the case at all. If Johnny on the Spot decided to go to the areas where these girls were abducted it wouldn't be to abduct any one of them in particular. He'd simply being going somewhere he feels the odds are good he will be able to find a random victim at some point.

I don't know enough about the other cases to know if any or all were from areas where Johnny on the Spot could reasonably expect he would find a victim but I'd think Bloomington, IN (college town, bar area) would certainly fit that profile.

So if anything it wouldn't be that Johnny on the Spot was really a 'Johnny on the Spot'... it would instead be that each of the girls just happened to be the unlucky ones that crossed his path when he saw opportunity in the area he was trolling. Wrong place... right time...

thank you for that. there is a tendency for humans to frame situations in terms of "what are the chances of x happening?" -- you have to think in terms of "there is a good chance x has happened" and work backwards. in other words, we're not focusing on the 1000 girls who were out late at night that night, we're focusing on the one who did in fact go missing.