IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Somehow I doubt that people are going around slipping roofies into drinks at Kilroys to rob college students.

Yeah, you're probably right, not in a place like Bloomington where there are hardly ever any murders and where no one uses drugs.
*rolly eyes*

 

[AbbeyR]

I've honestly never heard of people drugging a man and a woman together at a bar to rob them, and find it unlikely that this would happen to college students. Have you read about other cases like this in Bloomington?

(And, er... they didn't get robbed, did they.)

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

For CR to have been drugged doesn't mean he was targeted. If LS was, for any reason at all, he could have been just from sharing her drink or finishing off her beer. I personally don't think there was any plan to rob anyone but that doesn't mean I'm unwilling to walk through the scenario. I do think there is a possibility, probably a strong one, that LS was drugged by someone. I don't by know who. Or is it whom?

 

[AbbeyR]

I do think there is a possibility, probably a strong one, that LS was drugged by someone.

I agree with you on that part. LS had symptoms that are consistent with being drugged, so it makes sense to consider that as a possibility.

CR, according to witnesses, did not. He talked to people on the way home, was able to persuade people he was in control of the situation, and not only walked to his apartment, but was able to carry/ drag LS along too.

When women are drugged, it is usually by the male acquaintances that they are with. That doesn't mean CR drugged Lauren, but acting like any scenario is just as likely as any other isn't very realistic, IMO.

 

[Kadence]

To those who were involved in the early searching, did searchers look under manhole covers?

First post and hope I did it correctly! Been here since the beginning and then registered so I could show my appreciation to all of you in your continued efforts to find Lauren - you are all truly amazing people!

I was taken aback when seeing Ros' post because I woke up this morning and thought the very same thing! I don't recall ever seeing manhole covers mentioned!

Once again, all of you are wonderful people and the missing and their families are so lucky to have you. You don't give up - your type are far and few between. Thank you - you have my deepest gratitude.

 

[VeryVeritas]

"Also a chance that if Lauren was slipped a rufie at Kilroys, CR was
slipped one, too. Motive? possibly robbery"

Right, and we still don't know WHY LS and CR went back to SW or if they were called over there by someone. The story is the fight was ZO popping CR in the chin for being disrespectful to LS and then to ZO when called him out.

Students who spotted the pair told the New York Post Lauren was 'clearly very inebriated.' They also said Rossman had been bothering her and had then got angry when they asked him to stop. 'He was being overly aggressive...being so belligerent,' one told the paper. From:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...message-daughters-attacker.html#ixzz2LTsUgViF


That's possible, but WHY were ZO & Co. at SW and had ZO or any of his friends that were at SW also been at Kilroys at the same time as LS and CR? WHY did LS & CR go there to begin with? If CR/LS were holding, who would've/could've known or suspected they were holding? Pretty much anyone that heard LS allegedly talking about doing coke and klonopin at Kilroys. Also, Maybe DR went with LS to 5N and then went right back to SW simply because he's not the that JR is didn't want her walk alone? If he walked her there, it would logical that someone might later call him to come walk her back. If DR was doing Klonopin with LS - like we've heard, but didn't do coke, then he would've been feeling pretty lazy and getting tired. That tells me that the coke came into play after she got to JR's, but before going to Kilroys. This excludes DR from all the coke and pretty much excludes him totally.

I had to step away for a couple of weeks -I was getting for lack of a better term, consumed by LS, and needed a fresh set of eyes so I want to just run through the 'known' timeline and if I have any of this wrong someone please correct me. I'm not going to be concerned with exact times just the correct sequence of events.

LS and CR go to Kilroys and DR being sleepy (if what I propose above is correct, if not then who knows) goes back home and crashes. Somewhere between JR's and at Kilroys LS is dosed with a roofie - is CR?

Either way, she's going down fast with the mixture of klonopin, alcohol, ya and the roofie, so she and CR are sky from kilroys and she's so FU'd at this point that she leaves her shoes and phone behind. Likely leaving them right where she was just prior to feeling the effects of the roofie.

So they go where? Straight to SW? Why? Maybe she thinks she left her phone there and was going to retrieve it. To get drugs? I doubt it in her condition. Besides the Klonopin was at DR's (right?) and the coke was at JR's (right?) So, if she wasn't going there for drugs, and I don't think she was, then she she would've probably been looking for her phone, but if not that, then WHY? If someone called them to come SW to rob them (or for any other reason that one would not have shared with LE) they would've had to call her before she lost her phone or called CR. I don't think this happened. I think she forgot she ever had her phone and went to SW to get it. So, if no one did call LS or CR to come to SW then she probably wanted her phone so she wouldn't miss JW's call/text later. I think that reasoning would sufficiently explain why they went to SW in the first place.

Next, LS and CR go up to the 5th floor lobby but no further and don't enter anyone's apartment.

Then the altercation between CR and ZO (who else was with ZO?).

Then LS's out of the elevator fall.

Out the door of SW and LS and CR start to head back to 5N. Was anyone seen on camera exiting the building very shortly after CR and LS?

Next, we have the alley fall and presumably the loss of LS's key card and coin purse deali-o,

Then they exit the alley

They enter LS's girlfriends building, knock on the girls door getting no answer they come right back out.

They sit on the front stoop of this building.

Next we have LS's slump & bump on the stairs.

The alleged witness that saw this asks if she's ok, CR says she's fine, he's got it.

Then LS's non attempt to avoid the face plant to the concrete.

CR slings her over his back and carries her toward 5N. (is their entrance into 5N on video?)

They enter CR's apartment.

CR pukes.

CR goes to bed.

MB takes LS to JR's. Does he leave immediately or hang around for awhile?

JR obverses LS blackening eyes and asks what happened. She says she doesn't know. What has MB had to say about her facial injuries. Did he see them, did he ask?

JR says LS uses his phone and calls ? then she calls DR looking for her phone. OR JR calls ? then calls DR, the guy that walked her there earlier. As any self respecting gentleman of means would rather than walk her home himself.

JR alleges that she makes it to the corner of 11th without stumbling so as far as he's concerned she's fine to walk home barefoot, impaired without a phone or keys to get into her building once she gets there without having reached anyone to met her downstairs to let her in.

JW calls LS's phone and Kilroys staff answers it, prompting him to call HT and met up with her on campus sometime around 2pm to get a key and check on LS and when he finds she's not there and hasn't been he calls LS's parents and the search for LS begins approximately 12 hours after the last known video footage of LS exiting the alley at 2:51 am


So. What do I have wrong or what have I missed/left out?

What's wrong is that, we do know Lauren's movements and condition right up until she fell face down without blocking. But all of the rest after that is just unverifiable, unproven "stories", there has been nothing to back any of it up.

 

[VeryVeritas]

First post and hope I did it correctly! Been here since the beginning and then registered so I could show my appreciation to all of you in your continued efforts to find Lauren - you are all truly amazing people!

I was taken aback when seeing Ros' post because I woke up this morning and thought the very same thing! I don't recall ever seeing manhole covers mentioned!

Once again, all of you are wonderful people and the missing and their families are so lucky to have you. You don't give up - your type are far and few between. Thank you - you have my deepest gratitude.

Oh I certainly brought up sewers several times. No one ever said they were searched. And not only that you would need to search sewers for a few mile radius, that would be a massive undertaking.

 

[AbbeyR]

First post and hope I did it correctly!

Hi Kadence, Welcome! I'd love to hear some new perspectives on Lauren's case -- Please jump in!

 

[Ros]

Oh I certainly brought up sewers several times. No one ever said they were searched. And not only that you would need to search sewers for a few mile radius, that would be a massive undertaking.

The landfill search was a massive undertaking too.

The idea occurred to me when I tried to think of ways one could dispose of a body without traveling far.

Are the Bloomington sewers inspected for maintenance purposes on a regular basis?

VeryVeritas, did you submit the sewer idea as a tip?

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

What's wrong is that, we do know Lauren's movements and condition right up until she fell face down without blocking. But all of the rest after that is just unverifiable, unproven "stories", there has been nothing to back any of it up.

Ok, so you think "known facts/timeline" should end at the face plant? Sounds good to me. What about making it to JR's? I thought we came to the conclusion that she had to have made it to JR's because otherwise he couldn't have known about the injuries to her face. I'm just trying put a go back to the basics, back to the beginning and strip it down to the bare facts that we know and separate them from the rumors, and the unanswered questions.

So what about this then:
LS and DR go to JR's from SW to 5N.

DR leaves immediately after arriving

LS and CR go to Kilroys

LS and CR leave Kilroys and head to SW. LS leaves her shoes and cell phone at Kilroys.

LS and CR arrive at SW and go up to the 5th floor lobby but no further and don't enter anyone's apartment.

Then the altercation between CR and ZO.

Then LS's out of the elevator fall.

LS and CR leave SW and head back to 5N via the alley.

LS's falls in the alley and loses her key card and coin purse deali-o,

Then they exit the alley

They enter LS's girlfriends building, knock on the girls door getting no answer they come right back out.

They sit on the front stoop of this building.

Next we have LS's slump & bump on the stairs.

Then LS's non attempt to avoid the face plant to the concrete.

? *Per MB LS and CR arrive at CR's. CR goes to bed. MB takes LS to JR's.

*LS arrives at JR's. JR notices that her eyes are beginning to blacken and asks her how she did that to her face and LS says she doesn't know.

DR receives a phone call at 4:15 a.m from JR's phone.

Another call is made from JR's phone to an unknown person.

12-ish hours pass and JW meets up with HT to get her apt key to check on LS. He discovers she's not there and the process is started.

Our questions are?
Did anyone follow them from the altercation?
Why did the altercation really happen?
If it was because CR was being aggressive why did the others let her leave with him/why did LS go willing with him when she was already at her building?
Who else was at JR's?
Who were there when ZO punched CR?
Who was at ZO's house that night?
Did the bar manager really see LS at the time she stated?
Who did she see carry LS away?
If she didn't see this, why would she lie?
Is CR's memory really compromised?
If not, why would he lie?
If the POI's are lying and covering for each other, what would compel them to do that?
Have all the cars available to all the players and all their guests been searched?
Why did DR leave JR's right away?
Why did someone call DR at exactly 4:15. Who else did CR, JR, MB call after the face plant, anyone? If so, why?
What was the nature of the confrontation between JW, his father and JR in the days immediately after LS disappeared?
Did any of the 5N boys buy drugs that night, from who? Was LS present during the buy?
Are there any other cameras that LS would've been on if she had left JR's as he said but headed somewhere besides SW? If so have they been looked at?
If there aren't cameras that would've recorded LS going a different path, where could she have been heading? How far in each direction available to her would she go before being recorded? Did LE check all those cameras?
Would any cameras have recorded any of the 5N boys or their guests leave in a vehicle after the faceplant? If so, where those cameras checked?
Is there a way out of 5N in a vehicle without being recorded?

That is all I can think of right now. Are any of these already answered or invalid? What questions have I missed?

Actually, I sit here and go over this and over this, go back to the beginning and try to take all the rumor away and try to find something and all I can ever come to in the end is that there is really only one question that matters at all. Did LS walk out of JR's at 4:15 heading either home or else where or not? There really is only that. She did or she didn't. If she did, it's open for speculation and debate on what happened next. If she didn't then we're back to CR, MB and JR and any guests as the main focus. JR would only have one reason to lie and say she walked away if she didn't and that would be to cover up something or cover for someone. So, if he's lying then where is she. How did he -or they - move her, has LE looked at video in the days after she disappeared? If any of the 5N boys knew they couldn't move her in their car without being recorded, what are the possibilities for them to dispose of her otherwise? Of those possibilities, which ones could they pull off without being recorded?

:banghead: This is making me crazy. I want to knooooowwww. It all feels just right there...just right outside reach.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

I agree with you on that part. LS had symptoms that are consistent with being drugged, so it makes sense to consider that as a possibility.

CR, according to witnesses, did not. He talked to people on the way home, was able to persuade people he was in control of the situation, and not only walked to his apartment, but was able to carry/ drag LS along too.

When women are drugged, it is usually by the male acquaintances that they are with. That doesn't mean CR drugged Lauren, but acting like any scenario is just as likely as any other isn't very realistic, IMO.

Yeah, that makes sense.

 

[Ixchel13]

It's great that people here disagree and no one gets snarky, who knows maybe a disagreement will spark an important clue.

To think there may be an alternative to the POIs is not the same as defending them. It would be grossly negligent for LE to not be investigating any other alternative scenarios and suspects.

About the night in question, after hearing all the people in questions' stories,
oddly, or maybe not so oddly, there are no recountings of hook ups--not one.
Like HT saying a guy stayed over, or ZO having a girlfriend over to vouch for
his whereabouts, or one of JW's roomies having a chick over. It's like they telegraph it somehow that it's not a "date night." Possibly because they are all hooked in by I Phone.

Trying to decode how these kids act today is part of this mystery. Applying
70s, 80s, 90s or even ten years ago logic doesn't apply to their behavior.
She's being carried piggyback and we naturally assume the guy has drugged her and wants to rape her. However, if he confessed to it, I also would not be surprised.

Back to the phone. CS tells us Lauren last used her phone at SW. It dawned on me that if someone did take the phone, and the phone was used or answered, then the phone would tell a story of where Lauren went looking for her phone . IMO Lauren left the phone at SW, no way she didn't use it if she took it with her to JRs and Kilroys.

Then, MOO, someone had to bring the phone to Kilroys eventually. Again, this doesn't mean they disposed of Lauren. It could mean that she was all wound up about getting that phone, it could mean that if someone gave it to Jesse first, they might break up, or maybe she was talking/texting about breaking up. If JRs story is true to a point, then Lauren was almost frantic to find her phone.

IMO, Lauren left her phone at SW, HT and friends, possibly ZO, read her messages and that's maybe what the fight was about, he knew she was meeting CR. Then they may have already have passed the phone on to 10th and College.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

It's great that people here disagree and no one gets snarky, who knows maybe a disagreement will spark an important clue.

To think there may be an alternative to the POIs is not the same as defending them. It would be grossly negligent for LE to not be investigating any other alternative scenarios and suspects.

About the night in question, after hearing all the people in questions' stories,
oddly, or maybe not so oddly, there are no recountings of hook ups--not one.
Like HT saying a guy stayed over, or ZO having a girlfriend over to vouch for
his whereabouts, or one of JW's roomies having a chick over. It's like they telegraph it somehow that it's not a "date night." Possibly because they are all hooked in by I Phone.

Trying to decode how these kids act today is part of this mystery. Applying
70s, 80s, 90s or even ten years ago logic doesn't apply to their behavior.
She's being carried piggyback and we naturally assume the guy has drugged her and wants to rape her. However, if he confessed to it, I also would not be surprised.

Back to the phone. CS tells us Lauren last used her phone at SW. It dawned on me that if someone did take the phone, and the phone was used or answered, then the phone would tell a story of where Lauren went looking for her phone . IMO Lauren left the phone at SW, no way she didn't use it if she took it with her to JRs and Kilroys.

Then, MOO, someone had to bring the phone to Kilroys eventually. Again, this doesn't mean they disposed of Lauren. It could mean that she was all wound up about getting that phone, it could mean that if someone gave it to Jesse first, they might break up, or maybe she was talking/texting about breaking up. If JRs story is true to a point, then Lauren was almost frantic to find her phone.

IMO, Lauren left her phone at SW, HT and friends, possibly ZO, read her messages and that's maybe what the fight was about, he knew she was meeting CR. Then they may have already have passed the phone on to 10th and College.

I agree that it's important to look at other PsOI and stay open minded. That's part of what this thread is for, just brainstorming and walking things through to figure out if they hold water. So, with that said, I do agree that the kids live in a different culture now that no matter how those of us with teenagers try to make sense of it - it often just doesn't. We try to relate and it's an 'epic fail'. <<---- But, one thing that hasn't and probably won't change is how forgetful drunk people are. Back when I drank I lived in a constant state of anxiety just trying to figure out where all my stuff was every morning. If we'd have had cell phones I definitely would've left mine in a bar. Often. Also, when I was bar tending, you seriously wouldn't believe all the boxes of junk people left behind at the bar. Boxes. And we didn't have cell phones! We did have beepers though so the lost and found boxes were always vibrating. AND it was unbelievable how many people never came back for their things! Anyway, the point is, LS leaving her phone at Kilroys is one of the only things about that night that is predictable and makes sense.

Please don't take that away from me. lease:

 

[masootz]

a lot of good theories going on. i'd like to throw out the idea of looking at the information that's missing from the perspective of the people who likely weren't involved.

when we suggest a theory that someone moved her phone to kilroy's, perhaps to give it to her, why wouldn't that person have told that to LE? when we suggest that CR may have been drugged, why wouldn't the people who were with him that night have told that to LE? when we suggest ZO punched CR for some offense, why wouldn't he have been clear with LE regarding exactly what happened? for every bit of information we know we have to question why the details aren't more forthcoming from the people who witnessed or verified that bit of information. it's either because everyone is involved in a mass conspiracy (not likely), a lot of what we know is hearsay that may not be true, or it's info LE knows but isn't releasing.

if it's info LE isn't releasing then i'd question why there hasn't been an arrest. i'd like to think we at WS are only a clue or two away from figuring this out, so if LE knows more than us there should have been an arrest or discovery of her remains.

if a lot of what we know is hearsay then it's possible we are ascribing meaning to things that LE doesn't see. that could be good if we're seeing something they're missing, but it can also lead us down roads that make no sense with reality.

just my 2 cents. we should question why we don't have some of the simpler answers considering the amount of people who saw at least bits of what happened that night.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

a lot of good theories going on. i'd like to throw out the idea of looking at the information that's missing from the perspective of the people who likely weren't involved.

when we suggest a theory that someone moved her phone to kilroy's, perhaps to give it to her, why wouldn't that person have told that to LE? when we suggest that CR may have been drugged, why wouldn't the people who were with him that night have told that to LE? when we suggest ZO punched CR for some offense, why wouldn't he have been clear with LE regarding exactly what happened? for every bit of information we know we have to question why the details aren't more forthcoming from the people who witnessed or verified that bit of information. it's either because everyone is involved in a mass conspiracy (not likely), a lot of what we know is hearsay that may not be true, or it's info LE knows but isn't releasing.

if it's info LE isn't releasing then i'd question why there hasn't been an arrest. i'd like to think we at WS are only a clue or two away from figuring this out, so if LE knows more than us there should have been an arrest or discovery of her remains.

if a lot of what we know is hearsay then it's possible we are ascribing meaning to things that LE doesn't see. that could be good if we're seeing something they're missing, but it can also lead us down roads that make no sense with reality.

just my 2 cents. we should question why we don't have some of the simpler answers considering the amount of people who saw at least bits of what happened that night.

All of the above probably. I think LE for sure has info we don't have. So, based on that...why haven't they been able to make an arrest? That is important, because that may be an indicator to us that something isn't what it appears to be. Whatever piece(s) of info they aren't sharing could point in a completely new direction that would seem out of left field to us. So, while staying open minding is important, I don't think that means we should mindlessly travel down dead ends either. We really can only work with the information we have.
One of my concerns that I bring up over and over is which cameras could have recorded something important, even days later. I'm constantly asking did LE check this or check that. In all likelihood, they have and that may be the part we are missing. I really can not believe that these PsOI weren't put under surveillance directly after she disappeared. If they weren't - particularly 5N, then BPD dropped a giant ball. We're just left to speculate and I hate that fact, because at this point it doesn't seem like whatever information they may be holding close to their chest is going to find LS. It seems to me that 2 years in, they should open the files, let us know these tiny details that may matter. I sometimes think that we spend vastly more energy on someone than LE does at this point in the game so it seems like they would be happy to have the free labor. You know, the 'can't jeopardize the case' reasoning sort of goes out the window in my opinion after nearly 2 years. Anyway, I'm rambling, but I like the point you're making and it's this same line of thinking that has me trying to go back and look at what we know as facts, and what questions still need to be answered and where in the time line are those questions. In this case it does seem like the PsOI are lying, and since we just can't know somethings it might be just as important to try to figure out WHY they are lying rather than try and shake loose the real truth. The reason someone lies is often as telling as the truth anyway.

I'm really coming back full circle and starting feel like a lot of the things that happened over the course of the night are rather irrelevant. I try making connections as much or more than everyone else but really, I'm convinced that LS did return to JR's because of his comment about her eyes starting to blacken and after that there isn't much left to figure out. She left or she didn't. If she did which direction and who was out that could have taken her and where. If she didn't leave then the answer is clear and LE needs to make an arrest. What does that tell us that they haven't?

 

[AbbeyR]

A more productive area IMHO would be trying to reason as to why CS made the statement about the last time LS used her phone as well as suss out how that factors into the timeline and where DR was supposed to have been.

About the first question: I posted this theory a million threads ago when CS first made that statement, and I believe it more now:

I think one of the reasons she made that statement repeating that LS hadn't used her phone was because there were all kinds of drug rumors swirling around. If you remember, Tony Gatto claimed an anonymous witness who was supposedly someone 'close to the investigation' said Lauren was alone at Kilroys, talking about being high on cocaine and xanax, and then kicked out. Another rumor that was going around on Gatto's blog and IDS was that the last text on Lauren's phone was her trying to contact some drug dealer for an 8-ball.

So my guess was that CS knew that none of the above was true (Now we do too) and wanted to make it perfectly clear that Lauren was not calling anyone for drugs, or anything else.This is just my own speculation though

OTOH, it could have just been a straightforward message out of concern for safety to tell others that Lauren was separated from her phone and this put her in a dangerous situation. More dangerous than walking the streets alone, since she was already in trouble when she was out with 'friends' that night -- The media (and others) often imply that walking the streets alone at night is the biggest danger to women in Bloomington... when we don't know if Lauren was ever even out by herself that night at all.

...

Back to what is or isn't 'grasping at straws' -- I personally feel that looking at the information we actually have about the POI who have been named makes the most sense here, not dragging in totally imaginary theories about people who have never even been named as POI.

BUT, if we're going to go on rumors, I do have one interest. I'd like to know where they came from, and I think this is a totally doable thing. It's easy to figure out on PT, but what about the rumors on Gatto's blog that turned out to be wrong (Like Lauren being at the bar alone or being kicked out, or the totally unsubstantiated rumors about ZO, etc.). Same people? If I were Tony Gatto, I'd go back to those 'anonymous sources' and take another look at who they were and what information they wanted to get out to the public (and why!).

Could be interesting...

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

I personally feel that looking at the information we actually have about the POI who have been named makes the most sense here,

Right now I think you're right about that. I'm not sure all the theories about what happened are really all that productive at this point. I for one am getting frustrated with my own circular thinking on this. I'm wondering if shelving the idea of figuring out what happened in exchange for focus on the method of, means to, and opportunity for disposal for each of the known POI's and where that would lead them to put her. Maybe in doing so we could eliminate some and hone in on others. In reality, it's finding LS that matters. But, at the same time, I'm vested at this point so if seeing it through to a conclusion means starting over and going through all the rumors and re-asking all the questions then I'm down. I just want to get started and get somewhere meaningful if possible. In moving forward it's important, for me anyway, to remember how often I've seen a thread be wild with speculation on everything from 'the highly probable' to the 'where the h*** did you come up with that nonsense' only to see the resolution be none of them but so straightforward...the neighbor, the boyfriend, the husband, the random stranger/sicko attack. I just want to see her found and I think if the right direction is found on the right path that it is a doable thing. Regardless if the person who did this thinks they were able to successfully throw LS away forever, I know that there is never really any 'away' to throw things to. She's somewhere and the somewhere that she's at now intersected with 5N at some point.

 

[AbbeyR]

Trying to decode how these kids act today is part of this mystery. Applying 70s, 80s, 90s or even ten years ago logic doesn't apply to their behavior.

She's being carried piggyback and we naturally assume the guy has drugged her and wants to rape her. However, if he confessed to it, I also would not be surprised.

It's not a mystery to me, and I don't see anyone applying 70's, 80's or 90's logic... I'm not even sure what you mean.

Also, calling it a piggyback is a little misleading, IMO.

...video shows Spierer stumbling across the floor, and Rossman helping her to her feet and out of the building.

On the next block, she sat down on a staircase and fell backward, slamming her head on the concrete step. The thud was loud enough for a young woman to hear it and ask whether she was all right.

According to the woman, Rossman replied, &#8220;She&#8217;s OK, I&#8217;ll take care of it.&#8221;

As Rossman and Spierer continued up the street, she fell hard and didn&#8217;t raise her hands to cushion the blow as her face hit the ground. A few steps later, she fell again... At this point, Rossman had Spierer slung across his back and was carrying her...

&#8220;It was a combination of her staggering, him pulling and carrying her,&#8221; investigator Mike Ciravolo said.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use?nclick_check=1

 

[Ixchel13]

SeeingThings, should you post that link? Because it is very upsetting to me that the perp on the link matches the description of a sexual assault here, and at the same very late/early time of 5:10 a.m. Almost like this guy might be getting off work from a bar or maybe third shift maintenance.

I will take the blame if you post the link. I know psychics are not considered evidence but I was blown away by this. And then when the guy was assaulted at knifepoint at 5:10 by a guy that matched the description, actually it didn't occur to me til after a week.

I am going to find the assault story and try to snip it.

Thursday, Oct 4, 2012 &#8211; By IDS Reports snipped by me A male was assaulted at about 5:10 a.m. today by a suspect wielding a knife in the east parking lot of Eigenmann Hall, according to an IU Notify alert. campus

OK I'm a terrible sleuth--it happened last year but still the description matches the guy
so he could be out there thinking he'll never get caught.

 

[Ros]

All of the above probably. I think LE for sure has info we don't have. So, based on that...why haven't they been able to make an arrest? That is important, because that may be an indicator to us that something isn't what it appears to be. Whatever piece(s) of info they aren't sharing could point in a completely new direction that would seem out of left field to us. So, while staying open minding is important, I don't think that means we should mindlessly travel down dead ends either. We really can only work with the information we have.
One of my concerns that I bring up over and over is which cameras could have recorded something important, even days later. I'm constantly asking did LE check this or check that. In all likelihood, they have and that may be the part we are missing. I really can not believe that these PsOI weren't put under surveillance directly after she disappeared. If they weren't - particularly 5N, then BPD dropped a giant ball. We're just left to speculate and I hate that fact, because at this point it doesn't seem like whatever information they may be holding close to their chest is going to find LS. It seems to me that 2 years in, they should open the files, let us know these tiny details that may matter. I sometimes think that we spend vastly more energy on someone than LE does at this point in the game so it seems like they would be happy to have the free labor. You know, the 'can't jeopardize the case' reasoning sort of goes out the window in my opinion after nearly 2 years. Anyway, I'm rambling, but I like the point you're making and it's this same line of thinking that has me trying to go back and look at what we know as facts, and what questions still need to be answered and where in the time line are those questions. In this case it does seem like the PsOI are lying, and since we just can't know somethings it might be just as important to try to figure out WHY they are lying rather than try and shake loose the real truth. The reason someone lies is often as telling as the truth anyway.

I'm really coming back full circle and starting feel like a lot of the things that happened over the course of the night are rather irrelevant. I try making connections as much or more than everyone else but really, I'm convinced that LS did return to JR's because of his comment about her eyes starting to blacken and after that there isn't much left to figure out. She left or she didn't. If she did which direction and who was out that could have taken her and where. If she didn't leave then the answer is clear and LE needs to make an arrest. What does that tell us that they haven't?

I wonder if JR, from his balcony, with lights in his line of vision, would have been able to distinguish between LS getting to the corner vs. LS revisiting the home of CR and MB.