IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

[AbbeyR]

Welcome EMM27! Glad to have you join us

Feels like there should be more info about where he was during the hours in question.

Agreed. It would be good to know if he was there at all. I think these theories about DB sound possible, but I always get stuck wondering how it could be that he avoided being named a POI or mentioned by the Spierers or the media during all of this time. The Spierers have not been shy about calling out the guys at 5N in the media. I feel like they or the PI's would have mentioned the out of town guest if it was relevant.

Or if not, why?

As of now, all we know (or think we know) is that DB was in Bloomington. We don't even know if he was at JR's the night in question at all. It would be nice if someone could track down the following info, which doesn't seem like it should be that hard to obtain

- When did DB get to Bloomington
- Who did he drive with/ whose car
- Did he stay at JR's
- When did he leave

There's only so far we can get with that Tweet....

 

[AbbeyR]

What if...

When MB (or CR?) called JR it was because Lauren was unconscious and/or in distress. This seems possible, given the descriptions from the witness and video that said she could hardly walk on her own and his own description, according to the PI's, that implied he called JR for help because he didn't know what to do with her.

So, what would you do if you were in that situation? Would you carry the person down and up stairs to get to another apartment two doors down? Or would you tell the other person to come over, quick!

Maybe they never went to JR's at all, and that part of the story was just to create a separation between the POI -- All of them: JR, CR and MB seem to have consciously tried to hide the fact that they were together at all that night. (MB said he stayed home all night and didn't go to JR's, HT skipped the part where JR goes to Kilroy's with the others in the account she told the media on JR's behalf, neither MB or JR acknowledged that the other was there in their stories of Lauren leaving, and CR has avoided all of these problems by having 'amnesia')

Anyway, I was just thinking that in this scenario, whether or not anyone was at JR's wouldn't have mattered. The only thing they would know --at most -- would be that JR left the apartment. If they were already passed out, they wouldn't even know this.

 

[Dixie811]

Anyway, I was just thinking that in this scenario, whether or not anyone was at JR's wouldn't have mattered. The only thing they would know --at most -- would be that JR left the apartment. If they were already passed out, they wouldn't even know this.

I was thinking along these same lines last night. It was late. One or more people could have been at JR's passed out drunk or asleep. If I remember correctly, JR's apartment was townhouse style, meaning at least some of the bedrooms were up the stairs. There very well could have been people in JR's apartment that evening who were not actually present for or aware of JR's actions regarding LS early that morning.

Regarding any out of town visitors such as DB, the above applies to them, but also a male friend from out of town visiting JR may have gone home with a female after partying and stayed at her place that night (common among the college age group).

Abbey, I agree with the questions you posted upthread regarding DB. Would love to know the answers to those. I agree that there is a reason DB has avoided media attention and, apparently, the scrutiny of the Spierer's. Would love for us here at WS to have the knowledge to be able to analyze his actions while in Bloomington.

 

[EMM27]

JR and DB are business partners:

http://westbloomfield.patch.com/articles/david-bleznak-and-jason-rosenbaum-5-questions

Reason I mention this is because I'd think he'd be staying with JR if visiting the campus, and yet we don't get a clear cut definition of him being there when Lauren comes by?

One thing that has always bothered me is that JR says he sees Lauren come over with a bruise on her face, asks her what happened, and she says she "doesn't know." So he lets a drunk, messed up, 4 foot 11 inch girl walk home by herself at 4:30am? REALLY?

If he did, and she was abducted on the walk back somehow, he still has to know deep down inside that it's his fault. Doesn't seem very regretful.

I think these are the only two options.

 

[Ixchel13]

JR and DB are business partners:

http://westbloomfield.patch.com/articles/david-bleznak-and-jason-rosenbaum-5-questions

Reason I mention this is because I'd think he'd be staying with JR if visiting the campus, and yet we don't get a clear cut definition of him being there when Lauren comes by?

One thing that has always bothered me is that JR says he sees Lauren come over with a bruise on her face, asks her what happened, and she says she "doesn't know." So he lets a drunk, messed up, 4 foot 11 inch girl walk home by herself at 4:30am? REALLY?

If he did, and she was abducted on the walk back somehow, he still has to know deep down inside that it's his fault. Doesn't seem very regretful.

I think these are the only two options.

yes, totally agree on the two options. The hour that everyone talks about
that she supposedly spent at JRs, could have actually been spent sobering her up just enough to leave so JR wouldn't have to deal with her, after she declined just sleeping over on the couch. Lauren wanted to go home but she also wanted her phone, and IMO it was so Jesse wouldn't get to it first.
To me, the overriding reason why Lauren could have stayed awake long enough to leave was to either hook back up with Jesse or to be home when he (finally) came looking for her.
JMO, but all the careless, thoughtless, mean, violent things these kids did
that night revolves around the fact that they feel immortal--IMO no one thought their typical unchivalrous, rowdy behavior was going to result in one of them being picked off from the usually tight knit circle.
After sifting through these types of cases, I can see one or more of the circumstances leading to victimization: perhaps no. 1 is alienation from the original group. Whether they are mad at their friends and storm off, they lose track of their friends and make it known, or they leave their group with someone else and come back to find their friends have left, etc.
When a bad person, either one who is looking for a victim, or one who is just thinking about it, hears these lost or angry persons stories, they think:
No one will suspect me.

 

[Ros]

It needs to be filed before 4 June, 2013 to be on the safe side. The purpose would to be to force these guys to sit down and tell the family all they know.
You take their depositions. This might be the last chance to get some answers. They need to sue for loss of love and affection.

They still might not talk. I think that is why Molly Dattilo's family won their suit. The men they filed suit against did not respond to the suit, so the Dattilo family won by default.

 

[Ros]

Also, I was just thinking that if I was any of these young men (JR, DB or other POIs) and I transported a dead or dying LS in my car... as soon as I felt I was out of the immediate scrutiny of LE (home for the summer that year?) I would trade-in or sell my car and get a new one. Not only because it would be creepy to continue driving that car around, but at any time LE could come back with a warrant and do all sorts of testing on that vehicle. The families of these young men all seem to be fairly well off to me, I doubt a new vehicle would be out of the realm of possibility for them.

I cannot recall exactly, I think I remember that one POI's vehicle was searched? Was it CR? I don't remember.

I would love to know if JR, DB, or any of the other young men involved in Lauren's night replaced their vehicle within a few months of her disappearance.

CR's car was searched (according to ABC news):
http://abcnews.go.com/US/lauren-spi...riend-remember/story?id=13809364#.UZqR0BlLeI4

 

[Ros]

For the record, this rumor was started by JR's friend (and likely came from JR via his roommates or MB). The same friend was swearing to everyone that JR had taken an LE polygraph and other things that weren't true, so I'm personally assuming the 'car in the shop' rumor wasn't true either, unless there's some other source for this. JMO

IMHO, "Ray," the guy on PT who started the rumor about the car in the shop, should not be considered a friend of JR. However, he did claim to be a friend of JR's roommates and I think he went to high school with MB. As I recall (I could be wrong),"Ray" was also the one who characterized JR as a "good liar" and having "no soul" and "not a nice guy."

I would think that LE would have thoroughly researched the vehicles of the POIs within a few weeks of her disappearance.

 

[Ros]

There's so much mystery about DB. I saw the Runcible Spoon tweet, but interests me is proof he WAS or WASN't there, e.g., a credit card receipt or actual sighting. Re phone records, financial transactions, etc.: I like to think that LE knows about DB allegedly being in Bloomington, since we all seem to. But I've also never seen direct evidence that he was there, except for the tweet (which like I said I did see). I do think that, if involved, he would have had resources at his fingertips. JMO.

Other evidence that DB (or someone else from MI) was in Bloomington is that CR's lawyer said that at least three or four other persons saw her after CR.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/0...ompanion-has-no-memory-last-moments-together/

Indianapolis Monthly received confirmation from JR's attorney that there were "other people around" at JR's.
http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/circlecitizen/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10474985

HT was quoted as saying that JR was not alone; he had a "friend from home". I can no longer find this article on the internet. I think it was in the Journal News.

 

[imkeylime]

Other evidence that DB (or someone else from MI) was in Bloomington is that CR's lawyer said that at least three or four other persons saw her after CR.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/0...ompanion-has-no-memory-last-moments-together/

Indianapolis Monthly received confirmation from JR's attorney that there were "other people around" at JR's.
http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/circlecitizen/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10474985

HT was quoted as saying that JR was not alone; he had a "friend from home". I can no longer find this article on the internet. I think it was in the Journal News.

It would make sense that JR's "friend from home" was DB. I can't find some DB-related stuff on the internet anymore, either. IDK if that's indicative of anything, of course. But like you, I did see that initial tweet, and I guess my comment about wanting to know if he was there is as much about the Runcible Spoon as it is Bloomington.

We've thrown it around here every so often: Could he have tweeted that as an alibi of sorts? Or as a code? Or did he merely go there for breakfast or return there after something else?

I think all of the above are legitimate questions, but I also feel that LE must have heard what we have or maybe more. ???

 

[doubtingthomas]

Please correct me if I am wrong. Didn't JR state that LS mistook his Ipad for a phone? Didn't he or HT say that LS was the one who called DR? Can we assume that if this is the case LS would be holding the phone when she made the call? Can we also assume that if she mistook the Ipad for a phone she would have picked it up? I would hope that LE would have gotten finger prints from the Ipad. This would have proved she was at JR's. Don't think she would have picked up the Ipad earlier when she was there before. The phone he could have wiped down.

 

[Kadence]

If zoom in and click satellite view, you see that it is someone's backyard.

http://binged.it/14to7bk

Please correct me if I am wrong. Didn't JR state that LS mistook his Ipad for a phone? Didn't he or HT say that LS was the one who called DR? Can we assume that if this is the case LS would be holding the phone when she made the call? Can we also assume that if she mistook the Ipad for a phone she would have picked it up? I would hope that LE would have gotten finger prints from the Ipad. This would have proved she was at JR's. Don't think she would have picked up the Ipad earlier when she was there before. The phone he could have wiped down.

I distinctly remember reading that LS mistook the iPad for a phone! I thought I was the only one who remembered reading that and thought maybe I didn't so thank you doubting! I have searched for the article again to no avail and am hoping someone on here quoted it. When I read it, it seemed to confirm to me that Lauren was in absolutely no shape to be able to walk home on her own.

It seems that it's very important for us to not just link articles but to quote the important 10% because it appears that important info in this case seems to be disappearing, at least online. Why is that? Thoughts?

My fear is that Lauren's disappearance was not taken seriously in the beginning by many people, including some of her friends and LE. This was valuable time lost. I can see how, with college life, this might have happened, thinking she's at a friend's house, etc., but it is still valuable time lost and gave the perpetrator(s) time to get ahead.

 

[Dixie811]

Hey y'all I could possibly be wrong, but I believe it was an IPOD, rather than an IPAD that LS was said to have mistaken for JR's phone.

Not trying to nitpick, but I think when possible we should try to recall information as exactly as we can.

I have always imagined that it was an the Ipod "touch" that she mistook for an Iphone. Makes the most sense to me, as they do look rather similar. But that is just my opinion and not based in fact.

 

[Ros]

Please correct me if I am wrong. Didn't JR state that LS mistook his Ipad for a phone? Didn't he or HT say that LS was the one who called DR? Can we assume that if this is the case LS would be holding the phone when she made the call? Can we also assume that if she mistook the Ipad for a phone she would have picked it up? I would hope that LE would have gotten finger prints from the Ipad. This would have proved she was at JR's. Don't think she would have picked up the Ipad earlier when she was there before. The phone he could have wiped down.

I think the PI's said that JR said that LS thought an iPod was a phone. Since an iPod Touch is very similar to an iPhone, that would not be that surprising. I think that this information came from the interview with Bo Dietl which was published about a year ago. In the same interview, the PIs said that there were two phone calls made from JR's phone, and one was to DR.

We hope that LE did check the phone for fingerprints, but I have not seen anything in the media that would confirm that they did so.

 

[Ros]

I distinctly remember reading that LS mistook the iPad for a phone! I thought I was the only one who remembered reading that and thought maybe I didn't so thank you doubting! I have searched for the article again to no avail and am hoping someone on here quoted it. When I read it, it seemed to confirm to me that Lauren was in absolutely no shape to be able to walk home on her own.

It seems that it's very important for us to not just link articles but to quote the important 10% because it appears that important info in this case seems to be disappearing, at least online. Why is that? Thoughts?

My fear is that Lauren's disappearance was not taken seriously in the beginning by many people, including some of her friends and LE. This was valuable time lost. I can see how, with college life, this might have happened, thinking she's at a friend's house, etc., but it is still valuable time lost and gave the perpetrator(s) time to get ahead.

I think the video of the interview with Bo Dietl is still online at this link:
http://www.lohud.com/flash/spierer/index.html

 

[akh]

I think the PI's said that JR said that LS thought an iPod was a phone. Since an iPod Touch is very similar to an iPhone, that would not be that surprising. I think that this information came from the interview with Bo Dietl which was published about a year ago. In the same interview, the PIs said that there were two phone calls made from JR's phone, and one was to DR.

We hope that LE did check the phone for fingerprints, but I have not seen anything in the media that would confirm that they did so.

And they should've checked the iPod as well if they didn't.

 

[AbbeyR]

Here's the quote about Lauren picking up the ipod (BBM):

[MB and LS] came over together, and Rosenbaum said he put on sweatclothes and opened the door. Spierer came carrying her fake ID and Smallwood key card, he said. “When Lauren walked into Rosenbaum’s apartment, he observed a very noticeable bruise under her eye,” the investigator wrote in a report summarizing his interview with Rosenbaum. “He stated he asked her what happened, and she responded, ‘I don’t know.’ ”

Beth said he pressed her to sleep over at Rosenbaum’s. Initially, she sat on the couch and seemed agreeable, he said. Beth said that’s when he left Rosenbaum’s and returned to his apartment.

At Rosenbaum’s, Spierer picked up an iPod on a counter and mistook it for a cellphone, he said.

In the half-hour before she purportedly left, two calls were placed from Rosenbaum’s phone. Rosenbaum said Spierer placed both calls, one to Rohn and another to a male friend who also was with her earlier that night watching basketball at Smallwood.

Both were sleeping, neither picked up, and no messages were left.

Rosenbaum said he finally let Spierer leave after she demonstrated she could walk without stumbling.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use?nclick_check=1

 

[mfunky]

What if...

When MB (or CR?) called JR it was because Lauren was unconscious and/or in distress. This seems possible, given the descriptions from the witness and video that said she could hardly walk on her own and his own description, according to the PI's, that implied he called JR for help because he didn't know what to do with her.

So, what would you do if you were in that situation? Would you carry the person down and up stairs to get to another apartment two doors down? Or would you tell the other person to come over, quick!

Maybe they never went to JR's at all, and that part of the story was just to create a separation between the POI -- All of them: JR, CR and MB seem to have consciously tried to hide the fact that they were together at all that night. (MB said he stayed home all night and didn't go to JR's, HT skipped the part where JR goes to Kilroy's with the others in the account she told the media on JR's behalf, neither MB or JR acknowledged that the other was there in their stories of Lauren leaving, and CR has avoided all of these problems by having 'amnesia')

Anyway, I was just thinking that in this scenario, whether or not anyone was at JR's wouldn't have mattered. The only thing they would know --at most -- would be that JR left the apartment. If they were already passed out, they wouldn't even know this.

Sounds beyond logical. I hope LE thinks the way you do.

 

[mfunky]

I think the PI's said that JR said that LS thought an iPod was a phone. Since an iPod Touch is very similar to an iPhone, that would not be that surprising. I think that this information came from the interview with Bo Dietl which was published about a year ago. In the same interview, the PIs said that there were two phone calls made from JR's phone, and one was to DR.

We hope that LE did check the phone for fingerprints, but I have not seen anything in the media that would confirm that they did so.

Well, the key to a good lie is details, and this is another instance where I can't believe JR. This event would have occured roughly an hour after LS and CR's walk to 5N when LS's condition began to get worse and worse. I can't believe that within an hour of falling multiple times onto concrete and hurting her head the way she did- with the combo of drugs, alcohol, her size, and her heart condition- that LS would be wandering around JR's apartment, and able to pick up an object, even if she wasn't able to properly identify it. I would imagine if she were alive, she would be sleeping it off, or at least lying down somewhere as one would think her head would be in extreme pain.

 

[Kadence]

Here's the quote about Lauren picking up the ipod (BBM):



http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use?nclick_check=1

Thanks Abbey. Definitely not trying to spread misinformation about iPad vs. iPod but I'm pretty positive that I read iPad at first, perhaps that was a typo in reporting at the time (very early on) and has since been corrected. I never mentioned it until I saw doubting recall it but thought it was interesting that someone else apparently read and/or recalled what I did, maybe it was an obscure article or just an incorrect piece of journalism, there's a lot of it out there. That's why I recalled it, because an iPad is so much bigger than an iPod or iPhone, being a bit of a techie, it just caught my eye but you can't make a call from an iPad.

I would never want to obfuscate Lauren's thread and apologies if it appeared that way.