IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

[Ros]

I love the word schlemiel.

I agree with your observations -- I think that the entire night was likely a series of poor judgments, not malice and that continued when JR, CR and MB decided to withhold information about what happened that night.

Unfortunately, I don't think that anyone had to be a criminal mastermind or full of malice to hide Lauren or keep quiet, so the personalities of the guys at 5 N don't reassure me that they are not responsible. If anything my feeling is that they are kids who haven't really ever taken responsibility for anything, are still under their parents' control and probably don't want to disappoint them. After watching JW's parents in action, I realized that even if any of them wanted to step up and take a different course of action, it would probably be hard to do. The POI all have people surrounding them whose main priority seems to be protecting them from any consequences.

[ETA: Didn't jslicht also say or imply that jay had been in trouble in the past and that his father probably anticipated that he would need legal help or something along those lines? I don't want to go back and read those threads again, maybe you or Ros know?]

Again, I look at DR in comparison. All he did was take a police poly, but it put him in a totally different light, IMO.

I don't recall anything on PT about Jay's previous legal problems, but if you search on his full name (Jason rather than Jay) at mycase.in.gov you can find out about his previous run-ins with Bloomington LE.

The other thing that puts DR in a different light is the presence of cameras at Smallwood and therefore video that corroborates his story. If there had been cameras at or near 5N, we might not be having this discussion.

 

[bessie]

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[MidwestMama]

interesting article about several unsolved cases (including Lauren) and a theory:

http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/

 

[AbbeyR]

The irony is that, if this scenario is accurate, JR will continue to be a schlemiel as long as he lives his lies. He could become a mensch, but that would require the courage to change.

Because of you, all afternoon I have had this in my head:

"1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-Schlemiel! Schlimazel! Hasenpfeffer Incorporated! We're gonna do it..."

[Sorry, Carry on! ]

 

[AbbeyR]

So, about those two calls we've talked about in the past :innocent:

I wonder why HT only mentioned one call to DR, then the PI's said two, and that the second was to a male friend...? If she called her own phone, wouldn't they know that?

n the half-hour before she purportedly left, two calls were placed from Rosenbaum’s phone. Rosenbaum said Spierer placed both calls, one to Rohn and another to a male friend who also was with her earlier that night watching basketball at Smallwood.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use?nclick_check=1

 

[Dixie811]

So, about those two calls we've talked about in the past :innocent:

I wonder why HT only mentioned one call to DR, then the PI's said two, and that the second was to a male friend...? If she called her own phone, wouldn't they know that?



http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use?nclick_check=1

I had the same thought, Abbey. Either the "rumor" that the second call was to Lauren's own phone is false... or the reporting was incorrect in that the 'male who Lauren had been with at Smallwood earlier' was actually DR. I'm not sure if I am articulating clearly, but I was wondering if David Rohn and the male that was called whom she was with at Smallwood earlier were the same person... on-in-the-same, but the information was misconstrued and the bit about "a male she had been with at Smallwood" was incorrectly attributed to a different phone call rather than to the phone call to Rohn?

I'm struggling to convey this clearly.

That's the only way I can possibly explain that Lauren's own phone was one of the two calls.

 

[doubtingthomas]

This is something I have wondered about since the first time I read it.

They came over together, and Rosenbaum said he put on sweatclothes and opened the door.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...avy-drinking-drug-use?gcheck=1&nclick_check=1

My first thought was, it was June. Why would someone be wearing sweats in June? Then I thought it could have been a cool night. Then I found this.

http://refugeesunleashed.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=26095&start=125
The Journal-News of Westchester, N.Y., contributed to this story.

Kelly Wold, a 20-year-old employee of the Les Champs Elysees spa and salon, was walking alone in a striped sundress on 11th Street at 3:45 a.m. She was on her way home after a night drinking with friends. She walked right past 5 North Townhomes -- by Rossman's place, by Rosenbaum's. She didn't see Spierer. But she probably passed within 10 feet of where Spierer was last seen with friends. Wold's own roommate came in by herself at 4:20.

It was a warm night and not a bad one for walking, Wold recalls. But it was also quieter than most. Often, at 3:45 a.m., people are still partying with their front doors open. Not on the early morning of June 3. It was quiet.

Does anyone else find it strange to be wearing sweat clothes in June? Am I making too much out of it?

(Bold by me)

 

[doubtingthomas]

This is something I have wondered about since the first time I read it.

They came over together, and Rosenbaum said he put on sweatclothes and opened the door.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...avy-drinking-drug-use?gcheck=1&nclick_check=1

My first thought was, it was June. Why would someone be wearing sweats in June? Then I thought it could have been a cool night. Then I found this.

http://refugeesunleashed.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=26095&start=125
The Journal-News of Westchester, N.Y., contributed to this story.

Kelly Wold, a 20-year-old employee of the Les Champs Elysees spa and salon, was walking alone in a striped sundress on 11th Street at 3:45 a.m. She was on her way home after a night drinking with friends. She walked right past 5 North Townhomes -- by Rossman's place, by Rosenbaum's. She didn't see Spierer. But she probably passed within 10 feet of where Spierer was last seen with friends. Wold's own roommate came in by herself at 4:20.

It was a warm night and not a bad one for walking, Wold recalls. But it was also quieter than most. Often, at 3:45 a.m., people are still partying with their front doors open. Not on the early morning of June 3. It was quiet.

Does anyone else find it strange to be wearing sweat clothes in June? Am I making too much out if?

(Bold by me)

 

[Ros]

The low for June 3 2011 in Bloomington was 61 F. http://m.almanac.com/weather/history/IN/Bloomington/2011-06-03

Just noticed that this site gives Indianapolis weather history if you search for
Bloomington. It would have been a little warmer or cooler in Bloomington.

This site gives the temperature data for June 3 2011 in Bloomington. The low was 59F.
http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA
At the time Lauren disappeared, the temp would have been in the low to mid 60's.

 

[curioser]

They came over together, and Rosenbaum said he put on sweatclothes and opened the door.

http://www.lohud.com/article/2012060...nclick_check=1

My first thought was, it was June. Why would someone be wearing sweats in June?

I just took that as he threw on some clothes, as in he didn't want to come to the door in his underwear. I don't think it's a big deal.

 

[akh]

I'm wearing sweatpants right now and it's July. I also have the AC on so it's much cooler inside than out. So I don't see anything odd about someone throwing some sweats on in early June.

 

[bessie]

Let's try this again...for Lauren.

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[Dixie811]

Glad to see Lauren's thread back.

I had always hoped that as individuals who attended IU during Lauren's time graduated, some may come forward with information. Often, in school we have "BFF's" or significant others who we are willing to keep secrets for. After graduation and growing up a little I had hoped there would be some individuals who had heard snippets of information or had possibly been confided in that would come forward.

Lauren would have graduated this spring. Perhaps there is still someone out there who knows even a tiny piece of information that could help put this puzzle together. Maybe given a little more time in the real world such individuals will still come forward. Maybe as they start families and realize what it would feel like to lose a child.

In a college town, many students are living in a small area. Apartment buildings with many residents, multiple roommates, sharing parking lots, attending the same social spots, etc. I don't believe that there isn't anyone out there (aside from the few witnesses we know of) who saw or heard something of significance around the time of Lauren's disappearance. Rather, it is likely that these individuals did not even register what they may have seen or do not realize something they saw is significant.

 

[doubtingthomas]

Bessie. Thank you for the work you and others at WS do in keeping this thread going.

 

[imkeylime]

This is something I have wondered about since the first time I read it.

They came over together, and Rosenbaum said he put on sweatclothes and opened the door.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...avy-drinking-drug-use?gcheck=1&nclick_check=1

My first thought was, it was June. Why would someone be wearing sweats in June? Then I thought it could have been a cool night. Then I found this. ...

Respectfully snipped by me. IDK ... could it be that "sweatclothes" is being used interchangeably with athletic shorts? My son has some that are lightweight material but resemble sweats (same design but breathable nylon), you know?

Or maybe he had to get dressed fast and grabbed what was on a chair or on the floor?

 

[Ixchel13]

Suppose Lauren called her phone at 4:15. Did she text? If she texted, the person who had her phone would not have to answer.
IMO, LE must have her prints on JR's phone. If so, there would be reasonable doubt that she had passed by that time, and that would make the 5N POI story seem somewhat believable. If someone had the phone, and knew Lauren might be coming from 5N for it, and they lived at 10th and College, that would put them on the street between 8th and 9th if they were
headed to Kilroys to dump the phone. (woman pedestrian).
Perhaps someone got the text from her phone, jumped in their car to try to catch up with Lauren, but couldn't find her. Maybe thought she made it back to SW, so now they have the phone, and they throw it over the fence to the sand, or even bring it back the next day right after Kilroy's opened.
I think I can say this, but even before the little bird came on here and said it, I have always thought that Lauren didn't think her phone was at Kilroys.
Did someone catch up with her and an argument over the phone ensued?
Again, even so, unless some accident happened while she was retrieving her phone and she died, knowing what happened to the phone doesn't have to mean knowing what happened to her in the end.
Also, again, if we knew the other POIs, would we also be creating scenarios with them, if they were also among the last people to see Lauren? Would there be room for other theories?
They have long kept the reason for the altercation at SW vague, ZO's protective thing doesn't ring true, because he didn't keep her there, by going to get roommates, calling JW, etc. He let her go. Maybe the altercation was
about the phone. Perhaps they were holding her phone "hostage" for JW, who wasn't answering texts because maybe he really was asleep.
Looking for the phone could have kept Lauren conscious long after she should have been passed out, that's how a blacked out state works.
People say it was quiet on the streets, but at that time, the wilder parties all around there were finally winding down. You have the party goers from the parties up and down the street from residences and complexes, and the
bar employees getting off after cleaning and checking out. Drunk people getting in cars, fuelled by drugs, alcohol and energy drink combos. Ramped up drunks. IDK. Driving by and seeing a disoriented petite blond might be just
an unfortunate coincidence of everything leading up to the moment someone decided to abduct her.

 

[mfunky]

Suppose Lauren called her phone at 4:15. Did she text? If she texted, the person who had her phone would not have to answer.
IMO, LE must have her prints on JR's phone. If so, there would be reasonable doubt that she had passed by that time, and that would make the 5N POI story seem somewhat believable. If someone had the phone, and knew Lauren might be coming from 5N for it, and they lived at 10th and College, that would put them on the street between 8th and 9th if they were
headed to Kilroys to dump the phone. (woman pedestrian).
Perhaps someone got the text from her phone, jumped in their car to try to catch up with Lauren, but couldn't find her. Maybe thought she made it back to SW, so now they have the phone, and they throw it over the fence to the sand, or even bring it back the next day right after Kilroy's opened.
I think I can say this, but even before the little bird came on here and said it, I have always thought that Lauren didn't think her phone was at Kilroys.
Did someone catch up with her and an argument over the phone ensued?
Again, even so, unless some accident happened while she was retrieving her phone and she died, knowing what happened to the phone doesn't have to mean knowing what happened to her in the end.
Also, again, if we knew the other POIs, would we also be creating scenarios with them, if they were also among the last people to see Lauren? Would there be room for other theories?
They have long kept the reason for the altercation at SW vague, ZO's protective thing doesn't ring true, because he didn't keep her there, by going to get roommates, calling JW, etc. He let her go. Maybe the altercation was
about the phone. Perhaps they were holding her phone "hostage" for JW, who wasn't answering texts because maybe he really was asleep.
Looking for the phone could have kept Lauren conscious long after she should have been passed out, that's how a blacked out state works.
People say it was quiet on the streets, but at that time, the wilder parties all around there were finally winding down. You have the party goers from the parties up and down the street from residences and complexes, and the
bar employees getting off after cleaning and checking out. Drunk people getting in cars, fuelled by drugs, alcohol and energy drink combos. Ramped up drunks. IDK. Driving by and seeing a disoriented petite blond might be just
an unfortunate coincidence of everything leading up to the moment someone decided to abduct her.

Although I believe LS passed on or was slowing fading away when the phone calls from JR's phone were made, I don't think LS's fingerprints on the phone would support anything- she easily could have touched JR's phone for whatever reason at any point that evening. And IMO, 0% of me believes LS made those calls at 4:15am. JR indicated she did, but I don't believe anything he has to say.

Much like all of you, I have been following this case like crazy since June 2011, but don't see her phone being left at Kilroy's anything to raise an eyebrow at. She was drunk. I have left my phone at bars countless times in college. And I wouldn't be surprised if someone at Kilroy's responded to a text JW sent her- he was probably blowing up her phone. And it definitely isn't a-typical for bars to call the last person the phone has received a text/call from.

I just don't see a scenerio where other people were using LS's phone for a negative reason, or really at all. And LE likely read all texts that came and went from her phone. Additionally, I find it hard to believe she would even be thinking about the whereabouts of her cell phone in the condition she was in, which was captured on video.

Am I the only one who thinks her cell phone is totally irrelevant?

 

[doubtingthomas]

The suit filed states MB returned home from JR's at 3:30. Lohud article states:

Rossman stumbled, vomiting on the carpet as he walked upstairs. That’s when Beth said he escorted him to bed.
Beth said he then phoned his neighbor, Rosenbaum, the host of the “pre-game” party who knew Spierer from their camp days, wanting him to take care of her.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use

I assume he put him to bed as soon as he returned home. What would that have taken, 5-10 min. He just left JR's. Why would he need to call him? He just left. JR could not have gone to sleep in that amount of time. And even if he did phone him, why the need to tell us he put on sweatclothes to answer the door. Wouldn't he have been waiting for him?

 

[imkeylime]

... Much like all of you, I have been following this case like crazy since June 2011, but don't see her phone being left at Kilroy's anything to raise an eyebrow at. She was drunk. I have left my phone at bars countless times in college. And I wouldn't be surprised if someone at Kilroy's responded to a text JW sent her- he was probably blowing up her phone. And it definitely isn't a-typical for bars to call the last person the phone has received a text/call from.

I just don't see a scenerio where other people were using LS's phone for a negative reason, or really at all. And LE likely read all texts that came and went from her phone. Additionally, I find it hard to believe she would even be thinking about the whereabouts of her cell phone in the condition she was in, which was captured on video.

Am I the only one who thinks her cell phone is totally irrelevant?

Snipped by me. IMO, she probably just left her phone (and shoes) due to her condition that night. I wish we knew exactly how crowded the bar was. But the fact that she hadn't used it since leaving SW makes me think she put it down somewhere and didn't get back to it.

The longer shot, JMO, is that CR put it someplace because he didn't want her to make contact with JW. But I don't see why he'd hide her shoes, which she also left there. ???

 

[Kadence]

Bessie. Thank you for the work you and others at WS do in keeping this thread going.

Hear, Hear! Cheers and thank you Bessie!!