IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

[AbbeyR]

Btown, thanks again for all of your work documenting the cameras. It's hard to get a sense of without seeing, so the pictures and explanations are very much appreciated.

 

[doubtingthomas]

Maybe Btown can answer this. When the PI's were talking about LS sitting on the steps and falling over and landing on her face, was this seen on one of the cameras you are talking about here, or was this coming from an eye witness?

 

[Ros]

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/local/west_central/police-investigate-bones-found-in-brownsburg

It's over an hour from Btown, so probably not LS.

Clothing indicates that body was male. Apparently the body was in a sealed water tank for several years. Remains in poor condition and may be difficult to identify.

 

[Btown]

Maybe Btown can answer this. When the PI's were talking about LS sitting on the steps and falling over and landing on her face, was this seen on one of the cameras you are talking about here, or was this coming from an eye witness?

I'm sorry. I don't know.

 

[Ros]

most of the businesses inside 10th and College have keys that let them onto an elevator that goes down to the parking garage where the dumpsters are. Or, if you live there, you could at that time use your key to use the same elevator to go to your floor.
Because of the very nature of cameras and these tech savvy, tech aware
young people going around doing/dealing, DUIing, PIing, on the same 3-4 block radius, they could probably get in or out of most places and avoid cameras. What we have to stop and think about is part of their natural makeup now.
People who get locked out (at 10th and C) will ask you to use the business elevator but you need a resident key to get to any apts. There is a middle staircase right off College (not the one by the clock) that you can go up in between the food place and whatever shop is there at the time. Go straight at the top of the stair and it leads to the courtyard of 10th and C. From this courtyard, residents can enter the building from several back foyers and ascend to their prospective floors. The courtyard is big and squares the whole complex. Not sure if the floors on all sides connect in the square. so, could someone enter 10th and College off camera? IMO yes.

But could someone enter 10th and College without a resident key or a phone and stay off camera?

 

[Ros]

Honestly, I think the ZO rumors were started by someone on PT, given legs by Tony Gatto, and there has never been a smidgen of evidence that any of those rumors were true or that he or any of his roommates saw Lauren after the incident at Smallwood. Also, Lauren wasn't even friends with him, AFAIK, so I doubt she would go to his apartment. I also doubt she could walk.

JMO

There were also some anti-ZO rumors at the SilentSender blog, posted by "anonymous" (there's more than one person with that name) who claimed that $250 disappeared from his/her apt when ZO and friends toured the place. A link to that blog was posted on PT. The rumor about the concrete is there too.

IMHO, the ZO rumors took off when TG's description of the "mystery man" matched ZO's companion AB.

 

[deca]

I seem to start a lot of posts with "Maybe I am naive"...

well, maybe I am naive but if you just killed someone, accidentally or not, OR you hid a body- wouldn't your personality change? I mean, even if you had no remorse, wouldn't you be living in fear of being caught? Or if you were arrogant that you wouldn't be caught, would your ego become more inflated? Of course if you felt guilty maybe all of a sudden you become some sort of do-gooder volunteer.

I am wondering if any of the people involved have had some personality change.

 

[Ixchel13]

Correct.
I have posted the pics of the cameras in this thread.

if you don't mind my asking, when were the photos of cameras taken?
because cameras were added to 5N AFTER Lauren disappeared, just wondering........if 10th and College beefed up their cameras as well, because I don't remember seeing so many. Also, on the north side of the building, the side I'm most interested in, the cameras point east and south but not west.

IIRC, as well, SW would not release their camera info and had to have their doors broken down--the excuse was no one was there to give LE the info (BS!)

And, people think these cameras save the data but don't they erase after time?

I think, just an opinion, that BTown's film we have been talking about must have come from the Sheriff's Dept. just south of SW. The video had to be
south to north to pick up people on both sides of the streets and all the way
to SW. Remember, BTown, you said the woman pedestrian was between 8th and 9th, putting her in front of SW. Has the woman pedestrian been found and given a statement? TIA

 

[Ashley426]

I seem to start a lot of posts with "Maybe I am naive"...

well, maybe I am naive but if you just killed someone, accidentally or not, OR you hid a body- wouldn't your personality change? I mean, even if you had no remorse, wouldn't you be living in fear of being caught? Or if you were arrogant that you wouldn't be caught, would your ego become more inflated? Of course if you felt guilty maybe all of a sudden you become some sort of do-gooder volunteer.

I am wondering if any of the people involved have had some personality change.

You'd imagine so. But in a scenario such as her never being able to be found (i.e. laid in concrete in a surrounding building)...I would think their fear of being caught would be significantly lower.

 

[Ashley426]

Ash, what is your original theory?

I suppose I can't really stick with just one because there's a few possibilities. I'd say it's 60% OD & JR disposed, 30% OD & ZO disposed, and 10% stranger abduction.

I just found it EXTREMELY odd that she brought this up (she knows I'm very interested in this case) immediately mentioning a guy named Z. Also, she knew about surrounding construction. Keep in mind, she knows I'm into this case; but before her boyfriend told her this, she knew NO details at all of the case, especially names. I find it possible since the "mystery man" description fits the description of the guy, AB, in almost all of ZO's profile photos. The cameras are confusing me a bit, but as other people have said..it's possible a couple weren't working or they took the route not involving cameras. Who knows. I find it to be quite plausible.

ETA - They also said the guy she was seen walking with was "known to police" (I still tend to think it's CR since it was still the time he was supposedly with her)...but I also find it possible it could be ZO...he was definitely known to police after his drug bust.

 

[Jacobite]

At the time Lauren went missing, it would have been a violation of the US Code to follow the pings of random cell phones. The government needed to get a search warrant for each cell phone they wanted to track.
But, now the rules have changed. So, LE needs to go back and follow the GPS of every cellphone that was near Lauren Spierer on Jay's block.
I would follow any cellphone that was in motion near her in the vicinity of 10th and College Village and for the next 30 hours after her last sighting..
Some good computer software should sort it all out.

 

[Ashley426]

Are court dates public knowledge? Will they let the media know when the boys go to court? My main question, though, is the general public allowed to sit in on any court case or only certain ones? Because I'd definitely take the 40 minute drive to Bloomington to sit in on it.

 

[Btown]

if you don't mind my asking, when were the photos of cameras taken?
because cameras were added to 5N AFTER Lauren disappeared,

I'll have to go back thru the threads and see the date, but it was well before 5North installed cameras. In fact, I am the one that posted here that 5N was putting them in the day they were being installed.

just wondering........if 10th and College beefed up their cameras as well, because I don't remember seeing so many. Also, on the north side of the building, the side I'm most interested in, the cameras point east and south but not west.

No, 10th & College Apts did not beef up the cameras afterword. There is a camera on the north side of the building pointed West. Its circled in the pic I posted.

IIRC, as well, SW would not release their camera info and had to have their doors broken down--the excuse was no one was there to give LE the info (BS!)

Correct.

And, people think these cameras save the data but don't they erase after time?

It depends on the system. For example, the ones I'm familiar with have terabyte hard drives, with high video compression, allowing for a year or more of storage.

Remember, BTown, you said the woman pedestrian was between 8th and 9th, putting her in front of SW.

SW is on College St. The video with the female pedestrian was on Walnut St. It was private video, no LE video. However, it was turned in to LE once they requested it.

 

[Jmoose]

I seem to start a lot of posts with "Maybe I am naive"...

well, maybe I am naive but if you just killed someone, accidentally or not, OR you hid a body- wouldn't your personality change? I mean, even if you had no remorse, wouldn't you be living in fear of being caught? Or if you were arrogant that you wouldn't be caught, would your ego become more inflated? Of course if you felt guilty maybe all of a sudden you become some sort of do-gooder volunteer.

I am wondering if any of the people involved have had some personality change.

You would certainly think so, if the person of interest is a normal person, but not true if that person is a sociopath (and my psychologist friend says we all know some)- sociopaths don't feel guilt; the best they can do is feign the same reactions that they see in "normal" people. Jodi Arias comes to mind, although I am not necessarily saying that any of these people with whom Lauren spent time that night are sociopaths.

 

[Btown]

At the time Lauren went missing, it would have been a violation of the US Code to follow the pings of random cell phones. The government needed to get a search warrant for each cell phone they wanted to track.

Yes, and no.

Search for Calea and be aware that it's monitoring/recording all ISP's traffic 24X7.

 

[Btown]

Are court dates public knowledge? Will they let the media know when the boys go to court? My main question, though, is the general public allowed to sit in on any court case or only certain ones? Because I'd definitely take the 40 minute drive to Bloomington to sit in on it.

I would like to know the date too.

It's not in Bloomington though, it was moved to a Federal Court, presumably in Indy.

 

[Ixchel13]

I'll have to go back thru the threads and see the date, but it was well before 5North installed cameras. In fact, I am the one that posted here that 5N was putting them in the day they were being installed.



No, 10th & College Apts did not beef up the cameras afterword. There is a camera on the north side of the building pointed West. Its circled in the pic I posted.



Correct.



It depends on the system. For example, the ones I'm familiar with have terabyte hard drives, with high video compression, allowing for a year or more of storage.



SW is on College St. The video with the female pedestrian was on Walnut St. It was private video, no LE video. However, it was turned in to LE once they requested it.

Correct. SW is on College, between 8th and 9th. So if, as you say, the woman pedestrian was between 8th and 9th, on Walnut, and it was pertinent to Lauren somehow, then Lauren would have to turn the corner, go south, on College, turn left on 10th, and go to Walnut--now she's right by Kilroy's again, but heading in the direction of JW's. So really you have a woman pedestrian between 8th and 9th on WALNUT which is right by Kilroy's. And a car apparently with someone in it near the woman. Normally that wouldn't seem pertinent but then you put in barely visible words, "see what I did with that?" underneath your post.

To me, that is hinting at something. Yes, you are saying that Lauren wasn't in the video. But why would we expect her to be anyway?
But you are saying another woman, not Lauren, was in it, and a car. Why is another woman on a different street worth mentioning? When you first posted about the video, why did I assume that you were talking about College Ave? I took it to mean, the route she was supposedly on
and at the supposed time was empty, save a skateboarder on the opposite side, a woman pedestrian, not Lauren, and a small car.

Unless, someone involved was cutting across to Walnut to get their car that had been parked there earlier, IDK. BTown, just want to ask,
with all due respect, why you mentioned that video, and that you viewed it?

 

[Ixchel13]

I'm sorry. I don't know.

if all of the cameras were working that were circled, she should be visible
at the main steps under the clock.

 

[bx2]

I would like to know the date too.

It's not in Bloomington though, it was moved to a Federal Court, presumably in Indy.

I'm only an amateur, but here is my understanding:

-Initial Pretrial Conference set for 8/22/2013 01:30 PM in room #234, United States Courthouse, 46 E. Ohio Street, Indianapolis, Indiana before Magistrate Judge Tim A. Baker. Most likely to be counsel only. Source is the CM/ECF site, so apologies I can't link.

-by 8/15/2013 (7 days prior to Pretrial conference) parties must file a Case Management Plan which will detail discovery objectives and pretrial disclosures (model CMP to be filed is here http://www.insd.uscourts.gov/Forms/UniformCMP.pdf)

-the "Anchor Date" referred to in the model CMP, I believe is 6/20/13 (date of removal), so all deadlines referenced would be based off of that.

 

[AbbeyR]

@Ixchel,

You might find it helpful to go back and read Btown's post and the context of the conversation:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8895833&postcount=70"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29[/ame]

We were talking about the reliability of surveillance video (relevant to some of the recent posts and questions) and Btown was asked if he could share what he saw. The post also clarifies that he is talking about

N. Walnut St. between 9th and 10th Street