IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

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There were also some anti-ZO rumors at the SilentSender blog, posted by "anonymous" (there's more than one person with that name) who claimed that $250 disappeared from his/her apt when ZO and friends toured the place. A link to that blog was posted on PT. The rumor about the concrete is there too.

IMHO, the ZO rumors took off when TG's description of the "mystery man" matched ZO's companion AB.

If you look at comments about ZO (PT, Gatto, silent sender, The Dirty) they are all written in almost exactly the same words.

I agree with you, but Tony's description came first, I believe. My biggest question is where Tony came up with this description. (Edited to add: I.e., I'd like to know what the actual words were that the witness used to describe the 'mystery man', and whether it was unprompted or in response to specific questions.)

After that, my impression is that it was just a guess as to who could fit the vague description of a 'dark skinned' guy. If you read the posts here, from Tony and others, it seems like AA (finder of the purse in the alley) only narrowly escaped being the dark-skinned mystery man when someone posted here (and maybe elsewhere) about AB. Then Tony fueled speculation by posting names and screen shots from social media accounts of ZO and friends, without any other information, which reinforced and 'confirmed' the mystery man account for a lot of people, IMO. Meanwhile, as far as I can tell, the only reason AB's name was even mentioned was on the basis of the vague description of 'dark skinned' -- AB was never named a POI, or mentioned by anyone else, and Tony never even verified that he was around that night.

Since the PI's have flat out said the person on video with Lauren is CR, I think the 'mystery man' is irrelevant. The only thing that interests me is who was so determined to spread this rumor, and what, if any, criteria TG had for his sources and info, since he described his role as a journalist, not a blogger.
 
if all of the cameras were working that were circled, she should be visible
at the main steps under the clock.

I'll get a picture of the camera and its relative location to the clock and post it tomorrow.
 
I'm only an amateur, but here is my understanding:

-Initial Pretrial Conference set for 8/22/2013 01:30 PM in room #234, United States Courthouse, 46 E. Ohio Street, Indianapolis, Indiana before Magistrate Judge Tim A. Baker. Most likely to be counsel only. Source is the CM/ECF site, so apologies I can't link.

-by 8/15/2013 (7 days prior to Pretrial conference) parties must file a Case Management Plan which will detail discovery objectives and pretrial disclosures (model CMP to be filed is here http://www.insd.uscourts.gov/Forms/UniformCMP.pdf)

-the "Anchor Date" referred to in the model CMP, I believe is 6/20/13 (date of removal), so all deadlines referenced would be based off of that.

Good work BX2. Thank you.
 
Ixchel13 said:
just wondering........if 10th and College beefed up their cameras as well, because I don't remember seeing so many. Also, on the north side of the building, the side I'm most interested in, the cameras point east and south but not west.

No, 10th & College Apts did not beef up the cameras afterword. There is a camera on the north side of the building pointed West. Its circled in the pic I posted.

I take it back and apologize.
That camera does not point West. It points Eastward.
Sorry!

25kn0a1.jpg
 
I was wrong (again).

I went to 10th & College and took some more pics today.
There is no camera pointing West toward the garage on the South East corner of 10th & College Apts. that I could see.

There also is no camera pointed at either of the 2 sets of stairs on that corner near the clock, unless you count the one on the North East corner, pointed South. If that is the case, Lauren would have to have been almost all the way up the stairs that head North to be on video.

2 sets of stairs at the South East Corner of 10th & College Apts. Camera pointed North.
3Y9LpFc.jpg


Lower Stairs. Pic facing East toward College St.
N7Sof1y.jpg


The only camera on the exterior of the South side of the building, (that I could see). Standing at 10th St. facing North East.
S8ZltUU.jpg


There is a camera just inside the garage door pointed at the garage door, and 10th St. Sorry for the pic quality.
eDgx6um.jpg
 
Lauren Spierer case: Students seek to dismiss parents' suit implicating them

http://www.lohud.com/article/201307...-parents-suit-implicating-them?nclick_check=1

Defendant files to have Lauren Spierer negligence suit dismissed

http://www.indystar.com/article/201...erer-negligence-suit-dismissed?nclick_check=1

From the first article:

"Three former Indiana University students accused of negligence in the presumed death of Lauren Spierer say her family’s lawsuit against them fails to prove one critical point – that she’s dead.

“'Under Indiana common law, a person who has been missing for less than seven years is presumed to be alive,' Dane Mize, lawyer for defendant Corey Rossman, wrote Thursday in a motion to dismiss the lawsuit."

Can I just say that this annoys the h*ll out of me? GRRRRR. I really hope there's some way around this!

I did find it interesting that MB's counsel seemed to be pointing the finger at JR:

"'The Spierers’ lawsuit,' Garrison adds, 'fails to provide any reason why Beth should have foreseen Spierer’s disappearance. Further, Beth took Spierer to Rosenbaum’s residence and left her with Rosenbaum. It was Rosenbaum who allowed Spierer to leave his residence unescorted.'”

So basically MB is trying to get himself off the hook here by making her JR's problem once again. Thoughts?
 
Lauren Spierer case: Students seek to dismiss parents' suit implicating them

http://www.lohud.com/article/201307...-parents-suit-implicating-them?nclick_check=1

Defendant files to have Lauren Spierer negligence suit dismissed

http://www.indystar.com/article/201...erer-negligence-suit-dismissed?nclick_check=1

I want to say something about the above articles but, unfortunately, it wouldn't be pleasant.

I also want to thank Btown again for all the pictures and details, it really helps those of us who aren't local.

Lauren, we will find you and the truth will prevail. To the Spierers, if you're reading, believe this. And to person/persons involved, if you're reading, believe this too, because it's coming, you can't hide for too much longer...
 
RSBM ...

I did find it interesting that MB's counsel seemed to be pointing the finger at JR:

"'The Spierers’ lawsuit,' Garrison adds, 'fails to provide any reason why Beth should have foreseen Spierer’s disappearance. Further, Beth took Spierer to Rosenbaum’s residence and left her with Rosenbaum. It was Rosenbaum who allowed Spierer to leave his residence unescorted.'”

So basically MB is trying to get himself off the hook here by making her JR's problem once again. Thoughts?

So adding a thought to my own post ... I guess I more or less expected MB's response, given he allegedly had the least involvement with her that night. It also solidifies the story version that he took her to JR's vs. let her walk there alone or leave alone. But it also allows JR's story to stand.
 
One of my good friend's boyfriends went to high school at North Central with and has hung out with ZO a few times.

She told me last night that she heard that LS was with ZO, (wasn't she was last seen on the corner by his apartments?) she overdosed on cocaine, and they freaked out. What she told me about her being carefree, partying, etc. seems to coincide perfectly with what I've read in MSM. Maybe she was walking from JR's and saw his complex and figured "Hey he'll want to party" and knocked on his door? Obviously I can't prove this to be true or false, it's just what I heard from a mutual friend of his. Supposedly someone there was friends with a local construction worker and contacted them. I hate using these words, but I guess they said she was laid with one of the new buildings.....Once again, this is purely word of mouth, but I found it to make sense. What do you guys think?

I posted here a while ago, I am a fairly recent college grad, not from Indiana or IU but I know many people who did go there. I've always wondered what happened to Lauren and have come here a few times to get updates. Anyway - Am I the only person who thinks this theory, especially the last part of it, doesn't sound that far fetched at all? It would explain why no one has found even the slightest trace of her since the night she disappeared. Just my opinion...
 
I posted here a while ago, I am a fairly recent college grad, not from Indiana or IU but I know many people who did go there. I've always wondered what happened to Lauren and have come here a few times to get updates. Anyway - Am I the only person who thinks this theory, especially the last part of it, doesn't sound that far fetched at all? It would explain why no one has found even the slightest trace of her since the night she disappeared. Just my opinion...

The amount of construction going on in Bloomington that summer has always freaked me out. I ended up visiting JR's MI stomping grounds that summer (I grew up north of there), and there was tons of construction going on. I don't think LS ended up there, but it gave me an idea of how hard it would be to search through such a mess. So I definitely wouldn't rule it out.

OTOH, those who are local also speak of deep forests not so very far away from Bloomington and how a body could be well hidden there as well. Additionally, there are old caverns, I believe. All that adds up to lots of places that may not have been well searched, IMO.
 
I want to say something about the above articles but, unfortunately, it wouldn't be pleasant.

I also want to thank Btown again for all the pictures and details, it really helps those of us who aren't local.

Lauren, we will find you and the truth will prevail. To the Spierers, if you're reading, believe this. And to person/persons involved, if you're reading, believe this too, because it's coming, you can't hide for too much longer...

Sometimes when I can't sleep (waiting for my own kids tonight), I try to figure out how JR could be telling the truth. I've never understood how he could have let LS leave. But ... and this is terribly speculative ... what if he started to put the moves on her and she bolted ... and then he made the calls to check on her?

I wouldn't share this with my kids, but I remember one night during my college days when I was driving and really shouldn't have been. I wasn't alone, thankfully, but my friend didn't want to drive, either. So I pulled into an empty parking lot to take a breather. A bit later, I heard men's voices calling to us, which frightened me. That little adrenal rush sobered me up enough to drive back to the house we'd left, where we decided to spend the night.

IDK if LS was even in a condition to leave. But if JR hit on her and she wasn't into it, it might have annoyed him enough to not follow. But that would also imply that she had the extreme bad luck to encounter a random abductor right afterward. End of story, I guess (and my kids are home, yay!).
 
The amount of construction going on in Bloomington that summer has always freaked me out. I ended up visiting JR's MI stomping grounds that summer (I grew up north of there), and there was tons of construction going on. I don't think LS ended up there, but it gave me an idea of how hard it would be to search through such a mess. So I definitely wouldn't rule it out.

OTOH, those who are local also speak of deep forests not so very far away from Bloomington and how a body could be well hidden there as well. Additionally, there are old caverns, I believe. All that adds up to lots of places that may not have been well searched, IMO.

And if a body was taken by someone with access to earth-moving equipment for agriculture or construction, it could be anywhere.
 
And if a body was taken by someone with access to earth-moving equipment for agriculture or construction, it could be anywhere.

It's such a scary thought, as is the thought of an accomplice with no real ties to LS per se, i.e., someone performing a service for financial gain or out of misplaced loyalty, etc. And there are ways to get in and out of Bloomington undetected, correct? Or, conversely, might there have been other potential "white trucks" that fell under the radar?

But let's say she was buried within Bloomington, as Ashley speculated. Could a "construction accomplice" accomplish that by arriving early to a construction site and be undetected? Earth-moving equipment is noisy and wouldn't be used in the early hours. Plus, I'm sure LE checked this type of thing out. ???

If either of the above scenarios happened, finding the body would be pretty unlikely, I suppose. But it could be useful for LE to track who had access to such an accomplice.

But IMO, the best bet for discovery here is that someone develops either loose lips or a conscience.
 
It's such a scary thought, as is the thought of an accomplice with no real ties to LS per se, i.e., someone performing a service for financial gain or out of misplaced loyalty, etc. And there are ways to get in and out of Bloomington undetected, correct? Or, conversely, might there have been other potential "white trucks" that fell under the radar?

But let's say she was buried within Bloomington, as Ashley speculated. Could a "construction accomplice" accomplish that by arriving early to a construction site and be undetected? Earth-moving equipment is noisy and wouldn't be used in the early hours. Plus, I'm sure LE checked this type of thing out. ???

If either of the above scenarios happened, finding the body would be pretty unlikely, I suppose. But it could be useful for LE to track who had access to such an accomplice.

But IMO, the best bet for discovery here is that someone develops either loose lips or a conscience.

One of ZO's roommates was a construction worker, BB.

JR could be blackmailed into his story. For instance, if he sold drugs to just anyone, it would be his word against that person. But, if he sold to an informant, different story.

Suppose Lauren did leave, and then someone who was called by JR found her,
and then an overdose ensued.

If the last calls for help with Lauren from JR's apt were texts, then no need for return text. See, we have been told there were CALLS made and no ANSWER.

If someone had Lauren's phone, they possibly received a text to the phone from Lauren or JR saying Lauren needs her phone and a ride home. Since everything occurred within a few blocks that night, suppose this person with Lauren's phone heads up towards JR's and encounters Lauren.

From that point, anything could have happened. But, if something bad happened, that person could not be caught with Lauren's phone, or as being the last person to see Lauren, as it stands at that point, it would be JR,
not him.
IFsomeone had her phone, received the last text, this person would look super guilty if they turned up with Lauren's phone
after she was missing, indicating they received the last text.

And IMO, this is something that LE or the Spierers' wouldn't want anyone to know. If the text came from JR's phone, then it's true that Lauren last used
her phone at SW.

I realize that the 5N POIs are the favorites. What doesn't seem logical is that
some posters, maybe most posters, don't want to even suppose someone else did it.

IOW, if they didn't do it, who could have? Most posters just won't fathom that she could have left JR's. But, she might have. If she did, someone else did it.

And, having Lauren's phone means it could even be someone from Kilroy's got that text.

Having Lauren's phone could mean someone found it at Kilroy's and passed it to someone else. Even right after she left it. That someone else could have passed it to someone else.

It could have been passed to ZO who just had the altercation and there are rumors Lauren argued with someone outside.

It could have been passed to JW who would have something to be mad at, but would be the person who would go after Lauren or the people she was
with, who would head in that direction.

But most of all, this last person to get the text would know to put the phone back at Kilroy's.

Not very many people like the phone theory but first they told us that the last call was to the guy she had been watching the game with at SW.
Then, someone, maybe not JR but someone came on here and wouldn't be verified but wanted us to know that her phone was texted last. So, we
could suggest that for some reason, she/JR thought this guy might have her phone.

Just because the employee at Kilroy's found the phone the next day does not mean it stayed there all night.

Really, there are 3 choices:
1)5N guys, either all or JR or guests, disposed of Lauren's body.
2)Lauren left, and was abducted by bad person who was either trolling or found her unexpectedly walking alone.
3) Lauren left JRs and took up with someone from the evening's events,
someone she knew very well or was acquainted with and then something
bad happened to her.

Still waiting to find out from BTown why he/she thinks someone on Walnut
near Kilroy's would warrant mentioning. I mean it's like saying," no, Lauren wasn't seen on video walking home, but a woman 4 blocks away was walking down the street." I'm sure that at that time, on all of the streets around there, various people were walking to their cars.

and, BTown brought that up at the beginning, but also again this year. Why?
respectfully, and TIA. I realize that AbbeyR commented on that, but I would like BTown to answer that, please.
 
Still waiting to find out from BTown why he/she thinks someone on Walnut
near Kilroy's would warrant mentioning.

BTown brought that up at the beginning, but also again this year. Why?
respectfully, and TIA. I realize that AbbeyR commented on that, but I would like BTown to answer that, please.

I think AbbyR did an admirable job of explaining it. Thats why I didn't reply.

I only remember posting it once, when I was specifically asked to, not twice.
 
I think AbbyR did an admirable job of explaining it. Thats why I didn't reply.

I only remember posting it once, when I was specifically asked to, not twice.



Quote: (BTown quoting akh post #55 thread #29
Originally Posted by akh View Post
The main problem with this line of thinking is two-fold:
#1 We don't really know exactly what and who is on video and when. There's a little bit of info overall, and of that if we had to swear to it we couldn't because we haven't seen the videos for ourselves. So we're stuck with other people's descriptions that may or may not be accurate or be how we'd describe what we're seeing if we were to see it for ourselves.

#2 No matter what happened, it apparently happened off video (otherwise the assumption is there'd be an arrest or at least this case would be much further advanced). So it really doesn't mean much that JW, ZO, or any other alphabet mixture haven't been reported on video doing anything because neither has anyone else past what would be expected. Whatever nefarious thing that must've happened, happened off video. And why would it be so hard to believe somebody contemplating bad acts wouldn't be acting in stealth anyway?

I wonder if we're giving too much credence to the videos, both in what we think was seen and in what we're expecting would've been seen. Between time lapse recording, functioning vs non-functioning equip, and then actual aim of the cameras maybe people and happenings not appearing on security recordings isn't that surprising for several scenarios?

BTown's reply:

Actually, I've seen some of the video from that night firsthand. I pulled it off the recorder to provide to the police when they requested it. In addition, I've seen video from other buildings in the area from that night first hand.

The main problem with video, aside from legal issues, is that if you aim the cameras where they see the street the hard drive fills up very fast from the motion of the cars going by, (using motion detection). The cameras have to be pointed down, (or block the street view with software), so that they only get the door traffic, and maybe some sidewalk traffic. This limits the amount of data recorded.

So, despite the proliferation of cameras in the area, most only see a bit of the sidewalk.
Thanks


BBM Trying to also find your post of the explanation of what's on the video, and the post from someone else saying you had posted about it previously,
but really appreciate what you share on here and really want you to know that. Now. Did you turn in the video, because LE wanted all private video from around there at that time, and while it doesn't have any bearing
on Lauren's case, a random woman was on it?
 
Did you turn in the video, because LE wanted all private video from around there at that time, and while it doesn't have any bearing on Lauren's case, a random woman was on it?


Yes, that video was turned in at their request.
 
Links to the lawsuit docs:



In Defendants: Spierer's parents can't prove Lauren's dead
Attorneys say suit should be thrown out


http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/defendent-spierers-parents-cant-prove-laurens-dead

No where in JR's motion does it say he made phone calls to mutual friends trying to get Lauren a ride home, but in MB's:

(Complaint ¶ 30). According to Plaintiffs’ Complaint Spierer requested to return to her apartment
but Beth escorted her instead to Rosenbaum’s residence. (Complaint ¶ 31). Beth then expressed
“concern about Spierer’s well-being and safety” and he “attempted to contact mutual friends to
pick up Spierer and take her back to her apartment.”

Question: Who were Lauren and MB's mutual friends? MB knew BW so then HT would also be mutual I guess. So let's see, supposedly Lauren was there with JR and MB, and they were calling mutual friends--or texting? If texting, is it possible that someone (s) got the text and forwarded the text?yet didn't answer? And then could that someone who received it text it to someone else? Long shot, but is it possible that several people knew Lauren was looking for a ride/phone? is that what Jacobite is talking about that if they settled who called whom at that point they could figure it out?
Also, if they had that kind of info, they might be able to figure out if anyone texted MB back--even after he left JRs.
 
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