IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

[nicmorg1888]

Laurens story makes me so sad I just cant get over how many people failed this poor girl the night she went missing in my eyes they are all as guilty as each other. My heart absolutely aches for her parents. How anyone could have disappeared this beautiful girl and just carry on with their lives as if nothing has happened sickens me. I wish whoever done this would just talk and let RS and CS bring their daughter home. I hope the guilt of what happened to LS eats away at them for the rest of their lives. I hope they live in fear everyday that that day is the day that they are going to get found out but most of all I just wish for closure for LS and her loving family.

 

[AbbeyR]

Maybe he didn't know about the altercation, and had prior knowledge that CR was going to stay at SW.

Maybe, but I guess my question is:

If MB had just walked in, thought in his head 'omg, is there a burglar here?.. Nope, just CR and LS", then why would this be part of the story and more specifically, why would it be relevant in the lawsuit?

There's got to be a reason it is mentioned along with MB being a victim of a previous crime

27. At approximately 3:30 a.m. on or about June 3, 2011, Beth, a victim of a previous crime at his residence, returned to his residence after being at Rosenbaum's residence, and became alarmed when he witnessed what he believed might be burglars in his residence.
28. Beth discovered that it was Rossman and Spierer who had entered the residence shortly before him.

The only thing I can think of is there is some kind of evidence or witness that indicates that "MB became alarmed" when he got back to his apartment. Like, he sent a text to JR that didn't say "hey are you home, can Lauren come over" but something like "Help! Get over here now!" or called someone else for help. Since this doesn't jive with MB's first story about chatting with Lauren before she went on her way, he says it was a just a false alarm, nothing to do with her -- he had just thought there were burglars in the house. Oops! (Why would you think burglars when you were out with your roommate and you were all going home at around the same time?) His house had been broken into once before...?

Just thinking out loud... maybe he really thought there were burglars and this was the weirdest night ever.

 

[deca]

It could be the "thought they were burglers" idea is a bit of unnecessary drama.
I wonder if it was as simple as the apartment was locked up and no one expected home for awhile. Then some scrabbling at the door (have you all ever heard and seen a drunk person trying to open a door with a key?) for a few more minutes than necessary. Anyone inside would have been curious and alert to what was going on- and possibly suspect that someone was trying to break in.

ETA: whoops, just read the thread above mine and see I got confused about the order that night. just disregard this post.

 

[elmorejames]

Maybe, but I guess my question is:

If MB had just walked in, thought in his head 'omg, is there a burglar here?.. Nope, just CR and LS", then why would this be part of the story and more specifically, why would it be relevant in the lawsuit?

There's got to be a reason it is mentioned along with MB being a victim of a previous crime

The only thing I can think of is there is some kind of evidence or witness that indicates that "MB became alarmed" when he got back to his apartment. Like, he sent a text to JR that didn't say "hey are you home, can Lauren come over" but something like "Help! Get over here now!" or called someone else for help. Since this doesn't jive with MB's first story about chatting with Lauren before she went on her way, he says it was a just a false alarm, nothing to do with her -- he had just thought there were burglars in the house. Oops! (Why would you think burglars when you were out with your roommate and you were all going home at around the same time?) His house had been broken into once before...?

Just thinking out loud... maybe he really thought there were burglars and this was the weirdest night ever.

Or maybe CR reached out to MB via text or call on the way back and that's why MB left JR's to go home to help a)"put CR to bed" or b)Panicking CR with a messed up LS. He has the previous burglary in his backcard as a coverup. But also in his defense if he wasn't notified I can understand coming back to your place with lights on if you know you turned them off!

I thought he was home writing a paper when they arrived? Or did he finish his paper than go to JRs. This kids full of it his eyes are brown!!

He's def not a good liar and it seems his story has changed the most. He's trying to make too many people happy in this situation and cover for them but his burying himself. The kids one "burglar" away from spilling everything! MAN UP MB

 

[curioser]

Abbey, I think you hit on something there. MB may have appeared panicked, maybe even called/texted someone to help him out...because he thought there were burglars. It is an odd factor to bring into the story now.

 

[Kadence]

They definitely have equipment to detect not only a body but also a "mass" within and under concrete.

One would think, that's why they never looked under the Meadowlands for Jimmy Hoffa, but they've dug up plenty of grass for 30 odd years. I can't imagine the amount of money used to find him even though he'd have past from natural causes at best 15 years ago minimum.

Hi elmorejames - I'm interested in the equipment you mention as I have a case I've been following for a very long time (never thought to look for it here, duh, I need to do that!!!) and here it is:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117313"]VA Gina Renee Hall (18) - Radford VA, 1980 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Talk "around town" is that Epperly was working construction on the Radford campus (The Dedmon Center) and that he buried her in the concrete, thus my curiosity about the equipment. Also, as a side note, this was the first case where someone was convicted of murder without a body in the State of VA. Should a situation such as this apply to Lauren then this case and your info could be prove to be important. TIA!

 

[elmorejames]

Hi elmorejames - I'm interested in the equipment you mention as I have a case I've been following for a very long time (never thought to look for it here, duh, I need to do that!!!) and here it is:

VA Gina Renee Hall (18) - Radford VA, 1980 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Talk "around town" is that Epperly was working construction on the Radford campus (The Dedmon Center) and that he buried her in the concrete, thus my curiosity about the equipment. Also, as a side note, this was the first case where someone was convicted of murder without a body in the State of VA. Should a situation such as this apply to Lauren then this case and your info could be prove to be important. TIA!

To be honest my addition was hearsay up until about minutes ago which I can somewhat confirm with these links.

Recent case in FL

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/01/28/florida.missing.lotto.winner/index.html

I'd imagine Indiana Jones would use this method!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-penetrating_radar

 

[Dixie811]

The only thing I can think of is there is some kind of evidence or witness that indicates that "MB became alarmed" when he got back to his apartment. Like, he sent a text to JR that didn't say "hey are you home, can Lauren come over" but something like "Help! Get over here now!" or called someone else for help. Since this doesn't jive with MB's first story about chatting with Lauren before she went on her way, he says it was a just a false alarm, nothing to do with her -- he had just thought there were burglars in the house. Oops! (Why would you think burglars when you were out with your roommate and you were all going home at around the same time?) His house had been broken into once before...?

Just thinking out loud... maybe he really thought there were burglars and this was the weirdest night ever.

Great thoughts!!

 

[imkeylime]

I'm mostly a lurker here, but did anyone else catch this part from JR's sstatement?

BBM.

Is this the first time we've heard that just LS and CR left JR's? And that they spent an hour at CR's place before going to Kilroy's? Was MB home or still at JR's?

I've heard it as rumor before but not coming from an official source or POI. Interesting. Thanks for posting!

 

[threepisces]

Abbey, I think you hit on something there. MB may have appeared panicked, maybe even called/texted someone to help him out...because he thought there were burglars. It is an odd factor to bring into the story now.

Important to note that he isn't bringing it into the story now - the Spierers brought it up in their law suit (MB presumably told police this detail early on). I think the Spierers might be including it because

a) it highlights how the area is "known for criminal acts" (they mention MB being the victim of a previous crime and use the above quote in par. 38), which supports their claim that the boys were negligent for allowing Lauren to leave alone

b) insinuates that Lauren was either so intoxicated that they were crashing around like burglars or was potentially being attacked in some way.

But it is still very odd that MB gave up this detail in the first place. Why would someone with a roommate not assume that their roommate had come home? It was 3 in the morning and they couldn't stay at the bar all night. It is possible that he expected them to head to Lauren's apt., but it wouldn't be that surprising to find them back at the townhouse. I think that they must have been crashing around and MB told police about this to explain why he wanted to get her out of there and make her JR's problem.

 

[AbbeyR]

Good points, 3p.

It would be really interesting to see what statement MB did give police, considering the different versions we've heard through the media.

The initial stories that the lawyers told the public seem to have purposely made it sound like Lauren was totally fine: She helped CR home, she 'visited' with MB for an hour and then when MB didn't take up her invitation to 'party', she left on her own.To us, at least, the acknowledgment that she was in bad shape and the whole 'making her someone else's problem' version came out a year later. I've assumed that this was because of evidence that came out that showed Lauren's condition (like the surveillance video and witness, which the POI didn't know about when they made their first statements).
but it's good to remember that we have no idea what was said to LE.

There are other contradictions too. As you pointed out in your last post, MB's lawyer also directly said he was home all night, which contradicts this story that he came home and became alarmed to see what he thought were burglars in the house.

Would you expect defense lawyers' statements to match up with the statements given to police?

 

[midwestgirl]

I would think that a girl dying in your apartment would sober anyone up pretty quickly. (If that's what happened.)

It could also be possible that they were trying to take her to the hospital (to drop her off) and she passed away on the way there.

There are so many heavily wooded areas and Lake Monroe all within a 30 minute drive or less.

Drive down a main highway, turn off on a deserted country road, drive a few miles down the country road, pull over, walk 50 yards into the woods, dump a body. Those forests always have a layer of leaves on the ground. Brush the leaves out of the way and then cover the body with them. (Much like the areas where Katelyn Markham or Kate McGrayel were found, though I know Kate's death isn't suspicious.)

A person could be back to campus within an hour.

Also, there are some wooded medians north on 37. My bil has observed that a wooded interstate median would be the perfect place to dump a body. No one ever walks there, they aren't mowed, etc. (He's not a psychopath!)

IF JR had out of town guests, he could have borrowed one of their cars, possibly without them even knowing it. They would leave the next morning to go home, and their cars would never be searched/sniffed.

I do wonder how many and who those ootg were, and if LE has questioned any of them. Surely LE would have asked at least for their names, as they could have alibis for JR

To be fair, I have never been to the Bloomington area. I really can't rule anything out. It's definitely possible the boys dumped her in the woods in the middle of the night and no one has come across the spot where they left her yet. It could really be that simple.

For some odd reason the construction angle bothers me, if there was a connection to a construction worker or someone in the business as was suggested several posts earlier, I think that COULD explain a lot!

 

[Jupiter812]

All good theories and good reading above about MB and the mistaken burglars. Thank you.

I think it's likely that MB rec'd a heads up from CR especially when you think about the number of stops they made from Smallwood to 5 North. Given the cliquishness of this circle, JR may have heard about the fight and about Lauren as well.

 

[Jupiter812]

To be fair, I have never been to the Bloomington area. I really can't rule anything out. It's definitely possible the boys dumped her in the woods in the middle of the night and no one has come across the spot where they left her yet. It could really be that simple.

The last two Bloomington women to disappear and be found dead were found this way. Jill Behrrman wasn't found for years.

For some odd reason the construction angle bothers me, if there was a connection to a construction worker or someone in the business as was suggested several posts earlier, I think that COULD explain a lot!

I don't think he was a construction worker. I believe he worked inside a warehouse making/assembling office furniture.

 

[Kadence]

To be honest my addition was hearsay up until about minutes ago which I can somewhat confirm with these links.

Recent case in FL

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/01/28/florida.missing.lotto.winner/index.html

I'd imagine Indiana Jones would use this method!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-penetrating_radar[/QUOTE

Thanks for the links - very interesting and informative reading. I wonder whether LE and/or PI have thought to employ GPR in the areas that were under construction when Lauren went missing.

Some more links involving GPR with regard to finding those who are lost:

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/08/corpse-detection/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8754575

 

[Ixchel13]

The last two Bloomington women to disappear and be found dead were found this way. Jill Behrrman wasn't found for years.



I don't think he was a construction worker. I believe he worked inside a warehouse making/assembling office furniture.

so did he work for ZO's dad, who owns an office furniture company up in Indy?

 

[mmeynstyn]

Correct. SW is on College, between 8th and 9th. So if, as you say, the woman pedestrian was between 8th and 9th, on Walnut, and it was pertinent to Lauren somehow, then Lauren would have to turn the corner, go south, on College, turn left on 10th, and go to Walnut--now she's right by Kilroy's again, but heading in the direction of JW's. So really you have a woman pedestrian between 8th and 9th on WALNUT which is right by Kilroy's. And a car apparently with someone in it near the woman. Normally that wouldn't seem pertinent but then you put in barely visible words, "see what I did with that?" underneath your post.

To me, that is hinting at something. Yes, you are saying that Lauren wasn't in the video. But why would we expect her to be anyway?
But you are saying another woman, not Lauren, was in it, and a car. Why is another woman on a different street worth mentioning? When you first posted about the video, why did I assume that you were talking about College Ave? I took it to mean, the route she was supposedly on
and at the supposed time was empty, save a skateboarder on the opposite side, a woman pedestrian, not Lauren, and a small car.

When I read "see what I did with that?" I wondered if the punctuation (comma) had anything to do with what I was suppose to see. One might read "...female pedestrian, (not Lauren), and...." to mean that the (not Lauren) is another person with a female pedestrian. I would think that if the intent was to say that the female pedestrian was not Lauren, a comma would not be separating the two. I am not a grammar expert though, so I am not sure if I saw what was intented.

 

[Ixchel13]

When I read "see what I did with that?" I wondered if the punctuation (comma) had anything to do with what I was suppose to see. One might read "...female pedestrian, (not Lauren), and...." to mean that the (not Lauren) is another person with a female pedestrian. I would think that if the intent was to say that the female pedestrian was not Lauren, a comma would not be separating the two. I am not a grammar expert though, so I am not sure if I saw what was intented.

What! are you saying you think BTown was implying Lauren was on the video?

Here's what I'm thinking: either the video BTown has viewed means absolutely nothing, or it means nearly everything.

After asking about it several times and not getting an answer, I'm drawing a conclusion that perhaps the video contains another duo/trio of POIs?

Or else why not a "yeah, it was a video around that time, but it probably doesn't mean anything.

'See what I did with that?' in invisible ink is/seems like it's meant to be, provocative.

 

[AbbeyR]

Wasn't he just saying 'see what I did there' because he was asked if he was able to share what he saw on the video, and the answer was something like 'Well officially no, it's against company policy' "BUT.. I could say that hypothetically...(and then told us)" I read the rest of it as being totally straightforward, like Btowns other posts. But JMO.

 

[Ixchel13]

Wasn't he just saying 'see what I did there' because he was asked if he was able to share what he saw on the video, and the answer was something like 'Well officially no, it's against company policy' "BUT.. I could say that hypothetically...(and then told us)" I read the rest of it as being totally straightforward, like Btowns other posts. But JMO.

hmmmm...well you could say that, but IIRC BTown also said he/she viewed other videos as well. Now either LE has allowed this, or he/she has a back-and-forth, give-and-take relationship with others who have private video of that evening.

Abby I think it's great you feel the need to, and BTown appreciates, your explaining of his/her motives.:seeya: