IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

[Ashley426]

The burglar thing confuses me. I'm thinking there's not much to it. The apartment was broken into previously if I remember my reading correctly. That might cause a bit of paranoia late at night when you return home and don't expect anyone to be there. Of course, any of the theories here might ring true..I just don't find it likely that there's much to read between the lines in that statement.

 

[Ashley426]

The last two Bloomington women to disappear and be found dead were found this way. Jill Behrrman wasn't found for years.



I don't think he was a construction worker. I believe he worked inside a warehouse making/assembling office furniture.

I read something a loooong time ago on the LS boards about a furniture van..I believe it was back when the white truck was the hot topic. What makes you think this? Because someone mentioning ZO's dad owning an Indianapolis furniture company really gets me and it all seems to tie together IMO.

I never even considered ZO being heavily involved until my friend told me her boyfriend's story, and now I'm seeing more and more things that are leading me to suspect him.

 

[Jupiter812]

Ashley, there was a period of time when a good deal of personal profile type info was posted by peeps in the know. Photos of the players were posted as well, especially on Tony Gatto's site.

 

[AbbeyR]

hmmmm...well you could say that, but IIRC BTown also said he/she viewed other videos as well. Now either LE has allowed this, or he/she has a back-and-forth, give-and-take relationship with others who have private video of that evening.

Abby I think it's great you feel the need to, and BTown appreciates, your explaining of his/her motives.:seeya:

lol. I'm not trying to speak for Btown, I just feel the need to comment on everything :blushing: I personally think you guys might be overthinking this one (but whatever, I overthink everything, always -- So, carry on! But maybe re-read the conversation. Some of your questions are answered)

 

[AbbeyR]

The burglar thing confuses me. I'm thinking there's not much to it. The apartment was broken into previously if I remember my reading correctly. That might cause a bit of paranoia late at night when you return home and don't expect anyone to be there. Of course, any of the theories here might ring true..I just don't find it likely that there's much to read between the lines in that statement.

I'm not actually questioning whether its likely or not that someone would think there was a burglar. I'm questioning why, if there wasn't much to it (just paranoia) this appears in the lawsuit document as part of a very abridged version of what happened in the hours before Lauren went missing. I feel like there must be more to it.

 

[Ixchel13]

lol. I'm not trying to speak for Btown, I just feel the need to comment on everything :blushing: I personally think you guys might be overthinking this one (but whatever, I overthink everything, always -- So, carry on! But maybe re-read the conversation. Some of your questions are answered)

either the video was important or it wasn't. No overthinking there.

But, since you commented on my thinking, allow me to elaborate in the spirit of friendliness:

If, by way of "see how I did that?", BTown is letting us in on something that
is supposed to be confidential, that's not really keeping any kind of confidentiality whatsoever. We are not allowed to sleuth our members, but anyone could go down to Walnut and come up with a very short list of places the video could have come from.

So, IMO, it's kind of coy to say," here's what's on a video, but I'm not allowed to say." But then not to qualify it with, "it's not really important."

How would it be important ? Well, it's exactly one block over from SW. The
woman pedestrian could be totally random, or she could have been someone in Lauren's circle, or in an acquaintance circle from that evening. If the latter were true, this would make it important.

Following that line of overthinking, if LE viewed the video and tracked this woman down, and then she was our bar manager witness as in "about an hour before I was on that video I witnessed Lauren hitting her head by 10th and College," then it would be very important! Because she could be lying,
or involved.

Witnesses, or the term witness. Do they always just come forward? no they don't always. But once they are located, LE doesn't often elaborate on that. Saying that the bar manager was "concerned about Lauren's condition" is misleading, considering she didn't do a single thing to help Lauren!

And then, even more so, if this woman was on the video, and then gave a statement that she saw Lauren earlier, and painted Lauren's condition for us,
super important. One would have to wonder what this witness was up to.

All it would take would be for BTown, not AbbeyR, to come on and say that
the video is not important whatsoever. Afterall, we've already been told the video has been found, viwed, what's on it, and that other videos have been shared, so IMO it's in for a penny, in for a pound.

 

[Ixchel13]

lol. I'm not trying to speak for Btown, I just feel the need to comment on everything :blushing: I personally think you guys might be overthinking this one (but whatever, I overthink everything, always -- So, carry on! But maybe re-read the conversation. Some of your questions are answered)

either the video was important or it wasn't. No overthinking there.

But, since you commented on my thinking, allow me to elaborate in the spirit of friendliness:

If, by way of "see how I did that?", BTown is letting us in on something that
is supposed to be confidential, that's not really keeping any kind of confidentiality whatsoever. We are not allowed to sleuth our members, but anyone could go down to 8th and Walnut and come up with a very short list of places the video could have come from.

So, IMO, it's kind of coy to say," here's what's on a video, but I'm not allowed to say." But then not to qualify it with, "it's not really important."

How would it be important ? Well, it's exactly one block over from SW. The
woman pedestrian could be totally random, or she could have been someone in Lauren's circle, or in an acquaintance circle from that evening. If the latter were true, this would make it important.

Following that line of overthinking, if LE viewed the video and tracked this woman down, and then she was our bar manager witness as in "about an hour before I was on that video I witnessed Lauren hitting her head by 10th and College," then it would be very important! Because she could be lying,
or involved.

Witnesses, or the term witness. Do they always just come forward? no they don't always. But once they are located, LE doesn't often elaborate on that. Saying that the bar manager was "concerned about Lauren's condition" is misleading, considering she didn't do a single thing to help Lauren!

And then, even more so, if this woman was on the video, and then gave a statement that she saw Lauren earlier, and painted Lauren's condition for us,
super important. One would have to wonder what this witness was up to.

All it would take would be for BTown, not AbbeyR, to come on and say that
the video is not important whatsoever. Afterall, we've already been told the video has been found, viewed by LE, what's on it, and that other videos have been shared as well, so IMO it's in for a penny, in for a pound.

 

[ellehill]

I'm not actually questioning whether its likely or not that someone would think there was a burglar. I'm questioning why, if there wasn't much to it (just paranoia) this appears in the lawsuit document as part of a very abridged version of what happened in the hours before Lauren went missing. I feel like there must be more to it.

My guess on the whole burglar issue is that CR left the front door standing open, or not closed & locked all the way, then MB comes home and sees the door open and doesn't know who's there.

 

[Jupiter812]

I'm not actually questioning whether its likely or not that someone would think there was a burglar. I'm questioning why, if there wasn't much to it (just paranoia) this appears in the lawsuit document as part of a very abridged version of what happened in the hours before Lauren went missing. I feel like there must be more to it.

I don't recall if this statement is from the Spierer's docment, but if so, it would give credence to the boys putting her in harm's way, i.e., "an area known for criminal activity" or whatever their wording is for that part.

 

[Dixie811]

My guess on the whole burglar issue is that CR left the front door standing open, or not closed & locked all the way, then MB comes home and sees the door open and doesn't know who's there.

Good idea. Very possible. CR was carrying/dragging Lauren, and apparently intoxicated himself enough that he vomited upon arriving at the apartment (if the vomit was due to intoxication rather than, say, repulsion). Doesn't leave a lot of extra hands/coordination to close the door neatly behind them, etc.

 

[Dixie811]

If Lauren was slipped a roofie, say while at Kilroy's with CR, I could understand why the resistance to calling 911.

If a young man drugged a young lady who later died due any number of or combination of factors (Long QT, alcohol abuse, prescription pill abuse, a head injury, being drugged...) he would be terrified of being blamed for the death. This really would be a game-changer and would provide a possible explanation as to why CR would not get LS medical attention. Not that it is right, it is very wrong. But it makes a little more sense than not seeking medical attention for someone who has willingly ingested drugs/alcohol of their own volition.

To me, a scenario such as this could almost explain the night's events... but it still just doesn't fit. First, if Lauren had been roofied by CR at Kilroy's, why not get her back to his apartment immediately? The wandering around all night doesn't make any sense-- the motive behind slipping a roofie to someone is typically sexual. (I don't believe that he would take her to her own apartment at Smallwood if he were attempting to sexually assault her because of her roommates' presence). Furthermore, while this would provide CR with a motive to cover-up an accidental death of Lauren and be less than forthcoming with police, it still doesn't make any sense why JR and MB would do so as well.

Argh, it is so frustrating trying to understand the motive behind the events of that night. While I will always remain suspect of the POI's in this case, sometimes I almost believe them for a moment. I just don't understand how these three young men could have gone this long without flipping on each other unless they all have a better reason to stick to the story than anything I can come up with. I am still hoping MB can be broken.

Done rambling now!

 

[newlyminted]

If Lauren was slipped a roofie, say while at Kilroy's with CR, I could understand why the resistance to calling 911.

If a young man drugged a young lady who later died due any number of or combination of factors (Long QT, alcohol abuse, prescription pill abuse, a head injury, being drugged...) he would be terrified of being blamed for the death. This really would be a game-changer and would provide a possible explanation as to why CR would not get LS medical attention. Not that it is right, it is very wrong. But it makes a little more sense than not seeking medical attention for someone who has willingly ingested drugs/alcohol of their own volition.

To me, a scenario such as this could almost explain the night's events... but it still just doesn't fit. First, if Lauren had been roofied by CR at Kilroy's, why not get her back to his apartment immediately? The wandering around all night doesn't make any sense-- the motive behind slipping a roofie to someone is typically sexual. (I don't believe that he would take her to her own apartment at Smallwood if he were attempting to sexually assault her because of her roommates' presence). Furthermore, while this would provide CR with a motive to cover-up an accidental death of Lauren and be less than forthcoming with police, it still doesn't make any sense why JR and MB would do so as well.

Argh, it is so frustrating trying to understand the motive behind the events of that night. While I will always remain suspect of the POI's in this case, sometimes I almost believe them for a moment. I just don't understand how these three young men could have gone this long without flipping on each other unless they all have a better reason to stick to the story than anything I can come up with. I am still hoping MB can be broken.

Done rambling now!

With a roofie the effects would happen within about 20-45 minutes, depending on the food in the system, ect. and the effects would PEAK at about the two hour mark, and the whole effects would last for about 8 hours or so.. According to data about the use of roofies. With that being said, if a Roofie was employed here, it would be more likely for CR to try and get her back to his place immediately before she became completely incapacitated. The roaming about doesn't make much sense in that scenario, but who knows what people decide to do.

Lauren is from, and her family is still from, my area. The story is being heavily covered in the news here. I'm not sure if hounding these kids via the media and lawsuits is really going to get the family anywhere. One of the stories I read quoted JW's mother alleging that she had a drug problem and was kicked out of camp for drug use. If that's true that would be a fairly long history of use and/or abuse. You got to wonder...

 

[Ixchel13]

With a roofie the effects would happen within about 20-45 minutes, depending on the food in the system, ect. and the effects would PEAK at about the two hour mark, and the whole effects would last for about 8 hours or so.. According to data about the use of roofies. With that being said, if a Roofie was employed here, it would be more likely for CR to try and get her back to his place immediately before she became completely incapacitated. The roaming about doesn't make much sense in that scenario, but who knows what people decide to do.

Lauren is from, and her family is still from, my area. The story is being heavily covered in the news here. I'm not sure if hounding these kids via the media and lawsuits is really going to get the family anywhere. One of the stories I read quoted JW's mother alleging that she had a drug problem and was kicked out of camp for drug use. If that's true that would be a fairly long history of use and/or abuse. You got to wonder...

yeah I got to wonder if JW told his parents something, or if his behavior has
been such that, they feel the need to make Lauren more wild than him, when really, they seemed to have a lot in common.
In the crowd they ran with, and these frat crowds in general, it is usually the guys that are supplying the chicks with drugs and alcohol. Now I'm sure there are many exceptions in this liberated era, but still, it's usually the guys.
If a group of girls wants their own stash, they are still gonna get it from a guy dealer.
JW's parents repeatedly say that JW always had to "take care" of Lauren
and implied that it was because she was too wild, did too much. They dated for years, and he still hadn't figured out that at 4'10" she couldn't keep up with him, but he didn't try to stop her, hence the need to be caretaker?
IMO, JW was her main supplier. No where in any of the Wolfe propaganda is the mom saying Jesse sought drug counseling for Lauren or himself, or alcohol counseling. Whatever they call Lauren, double it for their son. To imply that she led him astray is ridiculous. I imagine that Lauren probably would have rather have been in New York already, but here she was hanging around for
another month so JW would have someone to drive back with.
Just wanted to note, that no one in this story helped Lauren, not her roommates, not her friends from back home, not employees who over-served her, not witnesses who then act concerned, NO ONE; and let's not say MB did because he admits she asked to go home. It takes less than 5 min., or about 5 min., to walk from 5N to SW. Again, along with the fear of getting a drug record for admitting what might have happened; IF Lauren was able to leave, the fear would also be getting a PI and possibly for drugs as well, and sheer, utter, callous laziness.
Lauren seems to have been a sweet, trusting, happy-go-lucky, loyal person who yes liked to party, but she was hanging around with some schmucks that only cared about #1, themselves, including her boyfriend.
I remember his brother saying on PT that Jesse's "life was over now." I thought that was weird to say, not, "IDK how he's going to get over this," or
"He's taking this so hard I'm worried about him," but, "His life is over now."
So final, and....?

 

[imkeylime]

...JW's parents repeatedly say that JW always had to "take care" of Lauren and implied that it was because she was too wild, did too much. They dated for years, and he still hadn't figured out that at 4'10" she couldn't keep up with him, but he didn't try to stop her, hence the need to be caretaker?
IMO, JW was her main supplier. No where in any of the Wolfe propaganda is the mom saying Jesse sought drug counseling for Lauren or himself, or alcohol counseling. Whatever they call Lauren, double it for their son. To imply that she led him astray is ridiculous. I imagine that Lauren probably would have rather have been in New York already, but here she was hanging around for
another month so JW would have someone to drive back with.
Just wanted to note, that no one in this story helped Lauren, not her roommates, not her friends from back home, not employees who over-served her, not witnesses who then act concerned, NO ONE; and let's not say MB did because he admits she asked to go home. It takes less than 5 min., or about 5 min., to walk from 5N to SW. Again, along with the fear of getting a drug record for admitting what might have happened; IF Lauren was able to leave, the fear would also be getting a PI and possibly for drugs as well, and sheer, utter, callous laziness.
Lauren seems to have been a sweet, trusting, happy-go-lucky, loyal person who yes liked to party, but she was hanging around with some schmucks that only cared about #1, themselves, including her boyfriend.
I remember his brother saying on PT that Jesse's "life was over now." I thought that was weird to say, not, "IDK how he's going to get over this," or
"He's taking this so hard I'm worried about him," but, "His life is over now."
So final, and....?

RSBM. JW's parents' comments were really strange, IMO, as is JW's silence in this case. It does seem like there must be a reason he never got more involved. If not for his parents, I might have thought he wasn't aware of her partying (no judgment here), but they make it sound like it was ok if she partied if she was with him. Giving JW the benefit of the doubt here, he may be feeling all kinds of regret for not tracking her down that night. It's also possible his parents don't speak for him at all. That said, I'd like to hear him speak. I'd like to hear his opinion of what happened.

 

[Ros]

yeah I got to wonder if JW told his parents something, or if his behavior has
been such that, they feel the need to make Lauren more wild than him, when really, they seemed to have a lot in common.
In the crowd they ran with, and these frat crowds in general, it is usually the guys that are supplying the chicks with drugs and alcohol. Now I'm sure there are many exceptions in this liberated era, but still, it's usually the guys.
If a group of girls wants their own stash, they are still gonna get it from a guy dealer.
JW's parents repeatedly say that JW always had to "take care" of Lauren
and implied that it was because she was too wild, did too much. They dated for years, and he still hadn't figured out that at 4'10" she couldn't keep up with him, but he didn't try to stop her, hence the need to be caretaker?
IMO, JW was her main supplier. No where in any of the Wolfe propaganda is the mom saying Jesse sought drug counseling for Lauren or himself, or alcohol counseling. Whatever they call Lauren, double it for their son. To imply that she led him astray is ridiculous. I imagine that Lauren probably would have rather have been in New York already, but here she was hanging around for
another month so JW would have someone to drive back with.
Just wanted to note, that no one in this story helped Lauren, not her roommates, not her friends from back home, not employees who over-served her, not witnesses who then act concerned, NO ONE; and let's not say MB did because he admits she asked to go home. It takes less than 5 min., or about 5 min., to walk from 5N to SW. Again, along with the fear of getting a drug record for admitting what might have happened; IF Lauren was able to leave, the fear would also be getting a PI and possibly for drugs as well, and sheer, utter, callous laziness.
Lauren seems to have been a sweet, trusting, happy-go-lucky, loyal person who yes liked to party, but she was hanging around with some schmucks that only cared about #1, themselves, including her boyfriend.
I remember his brother saying on PT that Jesse's "life was over now." I thought that was weird to say, not, "IDK how he's going to get over this," or
"He's taking this so hard I'm worried about him," but, "His life is over now."
So final, and....?

FWIW, I think JW's brother posted first on TheBort but he was quoted on PT. His original posts on TheBort seem to be gone now. For that matter, I can't find any of the original Bort thread about Lauren's disappearance.

And the bit about JW "is convinced that his life is over and he will never be OK" was part of a query by his brother about what to do with some second-hand information from a someone in Louisville who claims to be a psychic medium.

What concerned me in that post was "I just don't know whether this will help or hurt my brother." Does "this" refer to the medium's message saying that LS was dead but would eventually be found? Does this" mean finding her dead? What did he think might hurt his brother rather than help him by bringing resolution to the situation? Was he concerned that finding LS' remains might bring suspicion on JW?

OTOH, in that post he also said he was going to talk to his mother. If his mother starting thinking that LS was deceased and not missing based on the message from the medium, then it is not surprising that two years later she assumes that LS is no longer among the living while many other people are still hoping that she is alive and being held captive like the young women in Ohio.

 

[StrayKat]

I remember the roommates/friends did not seem happy with her choices & talked about what a good guy JW was. I never read anywhere about him being a suspect or having a drug problem. From what I remember she stayed cause she was going to school. The stories seem to be changing so much.

 

[Snapfade]

I remember the roommates/friends did not seem happy with her choices & talked about what a good guy JW was. I never read anywhere about him being a suspect or having a drug problem. From what I remember she stayed cause she was going to school. The stories seem to be changing so much.

You are correct , however JW could be a good guy and still have a drug problem. I also wouldnt expect that any JW friends are going call him a pothead during a television interview
.

 

[imkeylime]

I remember the roommates/friends did not seem happy with her choices & talked about what a good guy JW was. I never read anywhere about him being a suspect or having a drug problem. From what I remember she stayed cause she was going to school. The stories seem to be changing so much.

What interests me most is that the Spierers' tone seemed to change a little about JW, probably as he distanced himself from the case. But his attorney and parents may be behind that ... or he just couldn't handle being in the fishbowl. I recall JW having the same alcohol-related charges as the rest of them ... and that she stayed behind to ride back to NY with him. If that's correct, that alone could leave JW with a decent amount of guilt.

I'm thinking JW just refuses to speak to the media (he didn't appear fond of them in other reports), so perhaps his parents decided to speak for him. They probably should have talked to a media consultant before doing so!

 

[imkeylime]

You are correct , however JW could be a good guy and still have a drug problem. I also wouldnt expect that any JW friends are going call him a pothead during a television interview
.

Agreed. No judgment call here ... there's so much available at these schools (even at high schools, sadly). While I don't see much evidence that he was involved in LS' disappearance, I do feel he might have "heard" something via the grapevine. But maybe he has shared that, and we just aren't privy to it.

 

[Ixchel13]

I remember the roommates/friends did not seem happy with her choices & talked about what a good guy JW was. I never read anywhere about him being a suspect or having a drug problem. From what I remember she stayed cause she was going to school. The stories seem to be changing so much.

oh brother