IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

[Ros]

Good article Imamaze. Thx. Interesting focus presented. Focus on ) purported love triangle. 2) Bleznak named out of town guest..JR has NBA tv party in his honour. Bleznak sleeps while LS over. 3) LS uses JR phone to find her phone. JR assists her to leave to retrieve her ph...vs..getting her on her way to Smallwood. Definitely a different spin, perspective, facts, picture, of the debauchery as called out in article. Hmmm..so LS was headed? to Kilroys to get ph? All interesting. Thought provoking. Need to think.

So, at 4:15-4:30 a.m. she was going to retrieve her phone from a bar that closed at 3 a.m.????

"The suit contends that Rosenbaum breached a duty by letting their clearly intoxicated daughter leave his apartment, barefoot and alone, at approximately 4:15 a.m., to retrieve her lost cell phone."

 

[AbbeyR]

Glad to see this covered in JR's local news.

In his statement to police, Rosenbaum said he talked with Spierer for a little bit while Bleznak was sleeping in the other room, let her use his cell phone to try and track down her lost one and then watched her leave.

Since we just talked about the possibility that HT got this wrong, note that this article reports that JR's statement to police included the claim that Lauren used his phone, while the lawsuit docs (including MB's response) state that MB and JR made those calls.

The article includes law enforcement agencies among its sources.

 

[akh]

So, at 4:15-4:30 a.m. she was going to retrieve her phone from a bar that closed at 3 a.m.????

"The suit contends that Rosenbaum breached a duty by letting their clearly intoxicated daughter leave his apartment, barefoot and alone, at approximately 4:15 a.m., to retrieve her lost cell phone."

Not that far-fetched on a couple of levels. A full bar, open until 3AM (if in fact that is the case), has until 3:30AM to get everyone (except employees) out and drinks gone. So at 4:15AM it's not out of the question someone would've still been at the bar.

#2 Since intoxication is a factor in the case, good decisions cannot always be assumed.

#3 We can't assume she knew her phone was at Kilroy's. At best we can only assume she knew it was missing and thus it could've been anywhere she could've left or dropped it (which means her search for the phone could've been anywhere she'd been previously that night).

 

[akh]

Glad to see this covered in JR's local news.



Since we just talked about the possibility that HT got this wrong, note that this article reports that JR's statement to police included the claim that Lauren used his phone, while the lawsuit docs (including MB's response) state that MB and JR made those calls.

The article also includes law enforcement agencies among its sources.

The lawsuit states what the Spierers believe happened. Their case is stronger if they say LS didn't make the calls because she was incapable. It doesn't mean that JR's story changed or that the Spierers will actually prove she didn't make the calls.

If she did in fact make the calls it would weaken their case.

Its inclusion in the lawsuit just tells me they are going to challenge JR's statement that she made the calls. Not necessarily that they can prove it definitively.

 

[AbbeyR]

#3 We can't assume she knew her phone was at Kilroy's. At best we can only assume she knew it was missing and thus it could've been anywhere she could've left or dropped it (which means her search for the phone could've been anywhere she'd been previously that night).

Right, JR himself suggests she called DR looking for it. But as people have brought up so many times, why wouldn't she call her phone? Or the bar? If there is no call to her phone (which it seems there's not since reports from the PI specify there were 2 calls made to DR and another friend) it seems pretty unlikely to me that she decided to just walk around looking for it.

 

[AbbeyR]

The lawsuit states what the Spierers believe happened. Their case is stronger if they say LS didn't make the calls because she was incapable. It doesn't mean that JR's story changed or that the Spierers will actually prove she didn't make the calls.

If she did in fact make the calls it would weaken their case.

Its inclusion in the lawsuit just tells me they are going to challenge JR's statement that she made the calls. Not necessarily that they can prove it definitively.

True. But the way MB's response is worded it seems to confirm this...? Do you think the Spierers would claim that MB witnessed these calls being made if there was no proof or MB had never admitted this?

 

[akh]

Right, JR himself suggests she called DR looking for it. But as people have brought up so many times, why wouldn't she call her phone? Or the bar? If there is no call to her phone (which it seems there's not since reports from the PI specify there were 2 calls made to DR and another friend) it seems pretty unlikely to me that she decided to just walk around looking for it.

Maybe she had turned the ringer off and knew calling it was pointless?

The bar was just up the street and unlikely to answer the phone at a certain point anyway. And she probably didn't have the number.

Of course my #2 point from above could also apply:

#2 Since intoxication is a factor in the case, good decisions cannot always be assumed.

IOW... maybe calling her own phone never crossed her mind...

OTOH... Let's assume JR did make the calls. Was it to call and say she's passed out, or being obnoxious and someone needs to come and get her?

Would JR really call them to say she's having a medical emergency or even has died? If he was going to make that call and involve others then why not call an ambulance? Making calls to others doesn't necessarily connect with the idea of disposing of a body.

So just why would JR call the others?

But again... the #2 idea could come into play here as well....

 

[Kadence]

Good article Imamaze. Thx. Interesting focus presented. Focus on ) purported love triangle. 2) Bleznak named out of town guest..JR has NBA tv party in his honour. Bleznak sleeps while LS over. 3) LS uses JR phone to find her phone. JR assists her to leave to retrieve her ph...vs..getting her on her way to Smallwood. Definitely a different spin, perspective, facts, picture, of the debauchery as called out in article. Hmmm..so LS was headed? to Kilroys to get ph? All interesting. Thought provoking. Need to think.

Yes, very interesting article with a lot or perplexing info! I agree it's very thought provoking! I too feel like I need to think. But my first question is who does the love triangle involve? To me, a love triangle means that three people are involved in a relationship, one without the knowledge of the other two, not just one of three wishing to be involved with one of two. Regardless, something about this statement brings JW to mind again. If not LS, JW, and CR then who's in the love triangle?

 

[akh]

The triangle would have to be CR, LS, and JW wouldn't it?

 

[akh]

True. But the way MB's response is worded it seems to confirm this...? Do you think the Spierers would claim that MB witnessed these calls being made if there was no proof or MB had never admitted this?

I'd have to go back and re-read things. It's hard to keep it all together and so I don't remember what was said exactly.

Yes, I do think the Spierers would try and claim MB witnessed the calls if they feel strongly for some reason he was there, even if he said otherwise. ..Or if that's the only way that they believe the version of events piece together that fits the narrative they believe occurred.

 

[Ixchel13]

Right, JR himself suggests she called DR looking for it. But as people have brought up so many times, why wouldn't she call her phone? Or the bar? If there is no call to her phone (which it seems there's not since reports from the PI specify there were 2 calls made to DR and another friend) it seems pretty unlikely to me that she decided to just walk around looking for it.

Since a super-moderator linked the article I'm going to assume IMAmaze feels
it is important/valid.

IMO, important because the phone is again raising its head.
Originally, LE told us there were two calls made, or should I say, they told us of two calls that were made, and they said that JR stated Lauren made those calls.
LE said DR was called, and the mystery guy she had been watching the game with earlier, but neither picked up.
OK DR "didn't answer." he is supposedly cleared by LE, but wait a minute,
didn't pick up a phone ringing, or didn't answer a text?
Now to the mystery guy. <modsnip> but let's
say she did call her cell, and that's the tricky thing that LE won't verify, IMO that calling her cell was one in the same with calling the mystery guy: she
thought this guy had her phone. And, was it a call or text? My son corrects me all the time when I ask him whom he's 'calling', saying he's not calling, he's texting, duh. You can read a text, and not answer.

What was on Lauren's phone has been guarded carefully by LE, and I believe they got ahold of it early enough to retrieve any deleted texts by anyone, incl. JW and/or the mystery guy. The only thing we have been told, by CS, is that
Lauren last used her phone around 12:15 a.m. from the safety of her apt.

Since her phone is evidence, it's likely that CS has not seen the entire contents of Lauren's phone, especially the texts that LE would need a warrant to retrieve. Possibly some of the texts from JW were volatile, and who she may have texted last could be, an unnamed suspect.

Until this is solved, I will always think that someone returned the phone to Kilroy's. But if LE thought she was headed to Kilroy's to find it, FYI, the employees at Kilroy's have been known to still be there as late as 5 a.m.!!
What if she had texted something like, "do you have my phone? Am headed to Kilroy's right now to see if it's there. If you have it bring it to me."

Another thing! We have people assuming the guy who saw the car and guy with blond girl, etc, is an disreputable witness, yet this bar manager is referred to as, witness.***SPOILER ALERT*** calling someone a manager, does not
make them defacto reputable. This very witness could be in cahoots with the perp, or in the very least, trying to help Kilroys out by maintaining Lauren was
more messed up than what they served her. At any rate, this witness has the timeline wrong to be CR, trying to fit in him carrying her up the alley to 5N
iat 3:38 is plain wrong. Also, is this "disreputable" witness the skateboarder from BTown's video? This I wonder. If so, I would place him above the bar manager in credibility.

So the phone "calls" by, from, and to are really what's what. If those check out, and were actually made, then it points
to she might have stumbled out of there...to the mystery guy, or did the mystery guy give her phone to someone else and she didn't know she was calling that someone else? For example, JW?

People have trouble thinking the phone could be returned to Kilroys w/o anyone seeing it done, just not so. It could be thrown over the fence, or even pushed through the fence, the tables are by the fence! Or someone could casually bring it back the next day. As a bar manager myself, I will say, it's not an exalted position, for one thing; and also, bar employees, especially after
a busy weekend night, are not exactly all over customers the next day. You walk in, maybe go to a table in the back, and do you really think someone is going to run right over to serve you? lol, you'll be waiting until you walk up to
the bar and order your drink.

After reading all the threads about Adrienne, Alexis, I see that the cell phone
holds alot of the mystique and this case is same.

 

[Ixchel13]

sorry about typos, having so much trouble posting reply, don't wanna lose
it by editing.

 

[Snapfade]

True. But the way MB's response is worded it seems to confirm this...? Do you think the Spierers would claim that MB witnessed these calls being made if there was no proof or MB had never admitted this?

Both could had made the calls. JR could had located the number in his contacts and handed cell to Lauren brfore/after pushing send.

 

[Jupiter812]

Well this is the first published reference AFAIK to state DB was there. (To the naysayers, told ya so! <modsnip>, I think it was). I still think DB is the wild card in all of this. And yes, I do believe JR might cover for him.

Another first is this bit: "Spierer was carried into her apartment building on Rossman&#8217;s back."

Lauren DID NOT make those calls. I'm convinced of it.

 

[Jupiter812]

How convenient for JR/MB/DB that Lauren didn't leave a voice mail message on the phones of those she called. If Lauren was so intent on finding her phone why didn't she ask them to call her back? Because she didn't make the calls and because JR/MB/DB didn't want their voice recorded. That's my final answer.

No need to remind me that she could have texted vs. called and all the other but, but, but's.

 

[Jacobite]

So, after all this time, a reporter reveals the party at JR's was in honour of DB, his future business partner. Maybe, he would also want please and set up his special guest with a girl for the night? Asleep in the next room was his friend? Not so sure!!!

 

[Snapfade]

Well this is the first published reference AFAIK to state DB was there. (To the naysayers, told ya so! especially the poster AnalyticalExaminer, I think it was). I still think DB is the wild card in all of this. And yes, I do believe JR might cover for him.

Another first is this bit: "Spierer was carried into her apartment building on Rossman&#8217;s back."

Lauren DID NOT make those calls. I'm convinced of it.

I also agree that JR would cover for DB.
Ive read that all these kids are from wealthy families, but does anyone know who the wealthiest are from top to bottom. I have no clue if this list is correct, but this has been my preception.

1. DB (much wealthier than rest)
2. JR
3. JW
4.CR
5. LS
6. MB

Please correct list where its wrong. I do believe it makes a difference, when it comes down to who would protect who.

 

[akh]

Another first is this bit: "Spierer was carried into her apartment building on Rossman’s back."

That so much matches what the PI's said happened AFTER Smallwood/Altercation that I'd file it away as interesting but possibly confused by the reporter unless an independent source would confirm it.

 

[akh]

How convenient for JR/MB/DB that Lauren didn't leave a voice mail message on the phones of those she called. If Lauren was so intent on finding her phone why didn't she ask them to call her back? Because she didn't make the calls and because JR/MB/DB didn't want their voice recorded. That's my final answer.

No need to remind me that she could have texted vs. called and all the other but, but, but's.

It's not convenient for them at all. It would've been convenient if she HAD left a message.

And to that point... was it confirmed a message wasn't left on either call? I think it was said by LE (or PI's) that a message wasn't left on the DR call. Not sure about the other. Besides a message I wonder if there was ANYTHING left... as in the phone recording for a message and people talking in the background and not actually leaving a message before hanging up? And lastly, would the parents have access to that info? Would the police release any that info to them? Could the PI's independently get that info?

I don't see LE cooperating with the civil case to be honest with you.

 

[akh]

BTW... Back a few posts I posed this question:

OTOH... Let's assume JR did make the calls. Was it to call and say she's passed out, or being obnoxious and someone needs to come and get her?

Would JR really call them to say she's having a medical emergency or even has died? If he was going to make that call and involve others then why not call an ambulance? Making calls to others doesn't necessarily connect with the idea of disposing of a body.

So just why would JR call the others?

I'd be curious to hear some opinions on this topic. It seems the consensus has been JR would've made the calls to say "We've got a problem (OD) and we need help" but I'm starting to wonder if that's a flaw in the theory even if some or all of 5N are involved in the disappearance.