IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

[VeryVeritas]

-

- IIRC, she dropped the keys on the way to CR's - that's the impression I got from the LoHud account.

It's a lot more than the Lohud account. Because of the time when the keys and wallet were found and seen by 2 different people (roughly 3:00am) this was just minutes after Lauren fell face down without blocking with her hands, IN THAT SAME AREA. Until she fell, LS and CR were clearly enroute to 5N.

However, JR has said that she was in possession of her Keycard for SW and her fake ID. Since whatever was in her hands when she fell upon exiting the alley, it would seem this Keycard and ID were in a pocket or somewhere else on her person (or someone had already taken it from her, and that would have been CR). So how did JR find that she had these 2 items? The only thing that makes sense to me is that they searched her pockets or CR had them and passed the items along.

I do find this separation of her personal items to be very important. Just as the video evidence, and eyewitness accounts show that LS was in terrible shape and sustaining life-threatening (and perhaps fatal) injuries, her separation from Keys, wallet, phone and shoes in 2 distinctly separate locations and then ultimately her disappearance after the very weird situation at 5N she was in no condition to walk anywhere and that was obvious to CR/MB and JR. So there are at least 3 separate sources of proof that LS was very incapacitated, unconscious, and likely near death. While at the same time we get the LIE that she walked down the street just fine only to never been seen again. Why go through someone's pockets or other areas of clothing to find a keycard and ID? Obviously these items were not in her hand or they would have been lost too... they were not in her wallet either. I think it's possible that CR had those 2 items. This could be confirmed if he used the keycard when CR and LS entered SW. One of the 2 opened that door with her keycard and that should be on video. If it were CR he could easily have kept possession of it until later. He may also have had possession of her fake ID since he was buying her drinks at kilroys.

 

[imkeylime]

... I do find this separation of her personal items to be very important. Just as the video evidence, and eyewitness accounts show that LS was in terrible shape and sustaining life-threatening (and perhaps fatal) injuries, her separation from Keys, wallet, phone and shoes in 2 distinctly separate locations and then ultimately her disappearance after the very weird situation at 5N she was in no condition to walk anywhere and that was obvious to CR/MB and JR. So there are at least 3 separate sources of proof that LS was very incapacitated, unconscious, and likely near death. While at the same time we get the LIE that she walked down the street just fine only to never been seen again. Why go through someone's pockets or other areas of clothing to find a keycard and ID? Obviously these items were not in her hand or they would have been lost too... they were not in her wallet either. I think it's possible that CR had those 2 items. This could be confirmed if he used the keycard when CR and LS entered SW. One of the 2 opened that door with her keycard and that should be on video. If it were CR he could easily have kept possession of it until later. He may also have had possession of her fake ID since he was buying her drinks at kilroys.

RSBM. In the photo of LS leaving SW, she was wearing a white shirt over a tank and black leggings. I don't see pockets in the shirt and doubt the leggings had any, so I agree CR might have been carrying them ... unless she also had her jacket, which hasn't been accounted for in the media.

IMO, it might suggest that LS and CR planned on going back to Sports after going to SW for whatever. She'd need the keycard to get into SW, and the ID to get back into Sports. What confuses me is how the items got to JR's if CR had them. Did he give them to LS or MB, so she could get into SW?

The only other thing I can think of is that she did have her jacket (and had them in it), which LE either knows because they 1) have the jacket and haven't said so or 2) saw the jacket in the last video from SW but didn't find it at JR's. I know that LE sometimes withholds evidence, but why would they?

Her jacket's whereabouts has always bothered me. It seems like she would have either lost it with her other things, had it on during her return trip to SW, discarded it somewhere for whatever reason, or been reunited with it (and still has it on?). Could LE have it? Maybe I'm thinking too hard here?

PS: Here's the link of the photo where she's leaving SW. On reflection, it's possible there's a pocket hiding under her right arm, which is folded across her body. But the shirt doesn't really look like it has pockets, IMO.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...sKUoehO-m2yAHWjICYDQ&ved=0CC4Q9QEwAA&dur=2279

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Even when I'm not here thanking posts, I am reading every single one (b/c of the e-mails, subscribed thread). I follow Charlene, Lauren's mom who is so classy and strong, on Twitter. I want so badly for her to be able to bring her daughter home. I have been listening to a lot of Investigation Discovery while I score data (cuz my data are videos w/o sound) and I feel like every case reminds me of hers. I feel like I have nothing useful to contribute to the discussion here but I hope that the Spierers know and find some comfort in how many lives they and their beautiful daughter have touched.

 

[akh]

Ixchel13,
You have me wondering... For all the talk about drugs being the thing keeping all these PsOI and others surrounding the case quiet or not telling everything (or speaking at all) maybe it's people hooking up and stepping out on boyfriends and girlfriends that they don't want revealed.

 

[Dixie811]

I think it is a good possibility that CR had Lauren's key card and ID on him (in college I would stupidly allowed guys to put my cell, etc in their pockets because I did not have any) and then these items may have been passed along once Lauren was in the hands of MB/JR. This would also explain one question I have always had: why would JR be so aware of what exact two items/cards Lauren had in her possession?? If these items were passed along to him through CR/MB so that he could make sure she left with them (although I doubt she was ever going to be able to leave) then it would make sense that he noted exactly what the items were.

The Spierer's stated on video interview back in June (the anniversary interview) that they have never seen the Smallwood video footage. Apparently this footage has only seen by LE? Perhaps they have seen CR on video swiping the Smallwood keycard to enter, and they know he had the key card in his possession.

The keys that were dropped in the alley-- could these have fallen out of CR's pocket? Because it seems to me that if a male acquaintance was going to hold my two slim ID's for me, the (bulkier) keys would also be an item likely to go into his pocket (It's easy to slip an ID card into your bra, but keys?? Keys are a pain in the *advertiser censored**). We assume that Lauren dropped them because of her poor condition, but CR may also have been rather disheveled what with carrying/supporting Lauren and probably being quite drunk himself.

Running low on coffee, so forgive me if I have made an error in my thinking!
JMO

 

[Dixie811]

Ixchel13,
You have me wondering... For all the talk about drugs being the thing keeping all these PsOI and others surrounding the case quiet or not telling everything (or speaking at all) maybe it's people hooking up and stepping out on boyfriends and girlfriends that they don't want revealed.

Seems like a reasonable idea. But so much time has passed now, and I am sure that many such relationships would have ended by now. If anyone did hold anything back in an effort to protect their relationship, I hope they will come forward now.

It has actually been one of my biggest hopes. Especially now that Lauren's class has graduated from IU. I have always hoped that an individual who dated a POI (or someone else with knowledge) during or after the time that Lauren disappeared would come forward with some knowledge shared in confidence. Even something small.

 

[Btown]

You might be able to get copies for a small fee (max $3 per document) via the Pacer site:

http://www.pacer.gov/
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/indiana/insdce/1:2013cv00991/47396/

No need for that.
I've got it, although the original link still works for me.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3a9dai36rqobslq/spierermotion.pdf

 

[Ros]

No need for that.
I've got it, although the original link still works for me.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3a9dai36rqobslq/spierermotion.pdf

That's the document for the response the Spierers made to the defendants' (JR, CR, MB) motion to dismiss. The links to the Spierers original suit and the defendants' responses that had been on the Indy Channel site no longer work. The links are still there but they give a "File not Found" error message. Maybe if we ask the Indy Channel nicely, they will reinstate the links...

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/defendent-spierers-parents-cant-prove-laurens-dead

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

No need for that.
I've got it, although the original link still works for me.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3a9dai36rqobslq/spierermotion.pdf

Thank you Btown, I appreciate your help, but unfortunately I've already have this document. Like Ros said, I'm actually trying to find copies of the responses from each of the boys. The links were posted by Abbey on page 18 between posts 450 -460 somewhere. Thanks for your effort though!

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

That's the document for the response the Spierers made to the defendants' (JR, CR, MB) motion to dismiss. The links to the Spierers original suit and the defendants' responses that had been on the Indy Channel site no longer work. The links are still there but they give a "File not Found" error message. Maybe if we ask the Indy Channel nicely, they will reinstate the links...

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/defendent-spierers-parents-cant-prove-laurens-dead

Yeah, and ya know, come to think of it, usually with .PDF files, it's only the LINK that's removed, the actual file is usually still in place if you know where to find it. Maybe Abbey (or someone else that did read it) can remember where the file was hosted? I might be able to dig it up that way.
Urgh. I could just kick myself. I almost always download and save these kinds of things for this exact reason but I zoned on it this time, naturally. Big P. I. A.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Hey Btown, I have a question, if you can answer it, if not, I understand. I'm going to try to pick my words carefully. Ok, lets say, someone had access to a surveillance video and on that video they may or may not see a certain car. This car may or may not match a possible description of a specific persons car. If one had to guess, how closely might a person estimate the time between when they may have seen this car on video and the time given in a sketchy witness account claiming to see someone with a blond girl- that may or may not match the description of the possible owner of the same possible car seen on the video? Could the time frame between the two possible events (the time the car might be seen on video and the questionable witness account) make sense for someone with a blond girl to be in the location the witness stated and then get into a car with her and then drive through the path of the surveillance video at the time a car might seen on it? In other words, could one assume based on the video time stamp and the time of the witness account -about 3:38 a.m.-that these two things could be linked. or do the times conflict eliminating the possibility that the *disputed* man with a blond girl in the witness account was the owner of and driving the car that might be seen on video?

If you can decipher that cluster&^*$ I just wrote, I'll be impressed.

 

[threepisces]

Found MB's via google, but no luck on the others. Maybe someone else knows how to track this down better:

http://www.indystar.com/assets/pdf/BG209094725.PDF

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Found MB's via google, but no luck on the others. Maybe someone else knows how to track this down better:

http://www.indystar.com/assets/pdf/BG209094725.PDF

Thank you! Going to read it right now!

 

[AbbeyR]

I have those documents, but I'm away for 2 weeks on vacation right now so don't have access to them. We should upload these files to the media thread, if that is allowed. If no one has done this by the time I get back, I will.

 

[Ros]

Found MB's via google, but no luck on the others. Maybe someone else knows how to track this down better:

http://www.indystar.com/assets/pdf/BG209094725.PDF

Here's a link to the original suit by the Spierers:

http://indianalawblog.com/documents/spierer-complaint.pdf

Is it permitted to upload these files to the Websleuths site and if so, how?

 

[VeryVeritas]

Hey Btown, I have a question, if you can answer it, if not, I understand. I'm going to try to pick my words carefully. Ok, lets say, someone had access to a surveillance video and on that video they may or may not see a certain car. This car may or may not match a possible description of a specific persons car. If one had to guess, how closely might a person estimate the time between when they may have seen this car on video and the time given in a sketchy witness account claiming to see someone with a blond girl- that may or may not match the description of the possible owner of the same possible car seen on the video? Could the time frame between the two possible events (the time the car might be seen on video and the questionable witness account) make sense for someone with a blond girl to be in the location the witness stated and then get into a car with her and then drive through the path of the surveillance video at the time a car might seen on it? In other words, could one assume based on the video time stamp and the time of the witness account -about 3:38 a.m.-that these two things could be linked. or do the times conflict eliminating the possibility that the *disputed* man with a blond girl in the witness account was the owner of and driving the car that might be seen on video?

If you can decipher that cluster&^*$ I just wrote, I'll be impressed.

What Car Video? On a side note, there are different types of surveillance cameras in use. Many of them take frame shots much slower than a say a handheld video camera. They generate huge amounts of data, most of which is never viewed and so they work more like a series of snapshots with various time intervals inbetween. So, some of these "videos" may have captured something, but may not be as clear or extensive as one would like. Yet it may be useful.

 

[monkey222]

Test..thread up?

 

[imamaze]

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/08/16/news/local_news/doc520d713141b4b687038652.txt
Local businessman focus of missing Indiana girl mystery
A young local businessman has found himself at the epicenter of a high-profile unsolved crime, stemming from a night of partying with friends when he was in college in Indiana two years ago.
Jason Rosenbaum, 23, a West Bloomfield resident and co-owner of a mobile-device applications business in Birmingham is considered a key "person of interest" by law enforcement in the disappearance of Indiana University student, Lauren Spierer, who vanished from the school's Bloomington campus in the early morning hours of June 3, 2011.

 

[monkey222]

Good article Imamaze. Thx. Interesting focus presented. Focus on ) purported love triangle. 2) Bleznak named out of town guest..JR has NBA tv party in his honour. Bleznak sleeps while LS over. 3) LS uses JR phone to find her phone. JR assists her to leave to retrieve her ph...vs..getting her on her way to Smallwood. Definitely a different spin, perspective, facts, picture, of the debauchery as called out in article. Hmmm..so LS was headed? to Kilroys to get ph? All interesting. Thought provoking. Need to think.

 

[masootz]

very interesting article.