IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

[threepisces]

I have a question about the timeline.

From the Spierer lawsuit, we know LS & CR went from JR's party to CR's apartment. Then

Approximately one hour after attending the Rosenbaum party, Rossman escorted Spierer from his residence to Kilroy's.

Does this mean that it was an hour after she had arrived at JR's party in the first place? Or had they been in CR's apt for an hour after the party?


Also, the document states that LS and CR left JR's party WITH A MUTUAL FRIEND and subsequently JR AND OTHERS joined them at CR's apartment.

First of all, who is this mutual friend?! And why did JR and others leave his party (was it a real party or just a handful of people drinking etc?) to go to CR's, yet not follow them to the bar? Lastly, are the "others" simply MB and DB?

 

[Kadence]

Not to be gross, but is there any actual proof/evidence that CR got sick? I thought I read that he got sick on the stairs? Ros, can you help lol?!

Just re-reading this article: http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use in comparison with the one from Oakland Press - seems like that there are many versions of what happened, in the case between these two articles, it seems like a lot of what was "told" has changed, but, unfortunately, all have the same outcome, Lauren is missing.

Attention someone! Please speak up and tell what you know!!

 

[Jupiter812]

These are from the Spierer's response to the motion to dismiss. I pulled them out because it feels good and righteous to read something known and true in this case damnit.

(1) Defendants Rossman and Rosenbaum provided Lauren with alcohol even though she was visibly intoxicated which contributed to her incapacitation and state of peril;

(2) all three Defendants abandoned Lauren alone in an intoxicated and disoriented state in the early morning hours of June 3, 2011 in an area known for criminal acts; and

(3) all three Defendants failed to exercise reasonable care to ensure Lauren safely returned to her apartment.

Each of these acts or omissions, when proven at trial, constitutes a breach of the duties owed by the Defendants to Lauren.

 

[Jupiter812]

I have a question about the timeline.

From the Spierer lawsuit, we know LS & CR went from JR's party to CR's apartment. Then



Does this mean that it was an hour after she had arrived at JR's party in the first place? Or had they been in CR's apt for an hour after the party?


Also, the document states that LS and CR left JR's party WITH A MUTUAL FRIEND and subsequently JR AND OTHERS joined them at CR's apartment.

First of all, who is this mutual friend?! And why did JR and others leave his party (was it a real party or just a handful of people drinking etc?) to go to CR's, yet not follow them to the bar? Lastly, are the "others" simply MB and DB?

I should re-read it before responding but I don't have the time nor energy frankly, but when I read it previously I took it to mean that Lauren and CR were at his apt. for an hour. I'm thinking the mutual friend is DR.

Apparently they ran out of alcohol at JR's so they hit Kilroys.

 

[Roadrunner6122]

I should re-read it before responding but I don't have the time nor energy frankly, but when I read it previously I took it to mean that Lauren and CR were at his apt. for an hour. I'm thinking the mutual friend is DR.

Apparently they ran out of alcohol at JR's so they hit Kilroys.

I don't know if DR was the mutual friend because he was reportedly back at Smallwood around 12:30am. I think he escorted Lauren to 5N and left shortly after arriving there. I thought I read that he was seen on camera returning to SW right around 12:30 and was not seen leaving again during the time in question.

 

[Ros]

Not to be gross, but is there any actual proof/evidence that CR got sick? I thought I read that he got sick on the stairs? Ros, can you help lol?!

Just re-reading this article: http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use in comparison with the one from Oakland Press - seems like that there are many versions of what happened, in the case between these two articles, it seems like a lot of what was "told" has changed, but, unfortunately, all have the same outcome, Lauren is missing.

Attention someone! Please speak up and tell what you know!!

. The article you quoted in this post said that CR vomited on the carpet as he went upstairs. I do not know of any other evidence.

 

[masootz]

These are from the Spierer's response to the motion to dismiss. I pulled them out because it feels good and righteous to read something known and true in this case damnit.

(1) Defendants Rossman and Rosenbaum provided Lauren with alcohol even though she was visibly intoxicated which contributed to her incapacitation and state of peril;

(2) all three Defendants abandoned Lauren alone in an intoxicated and disoriented state in the early morning hours of June 3, 2011 in an area known for criminal acts; and

(3) all three Defendants failed to exercise reasonable care to ensure Lauren safely returned to her apartment.

Each of these acts or omissions, when proven at trial, constitutes a breach of the duties owed by the Defendants to Lauren.

it's going to be really hard to prove any of those -

1) she was also provided alcohol by bartenders and arguably provided herself with alcohol as well

2) all three defendants are likely to say they left her in the care of one or both of the other two defendants, or more likely that they had no duty of care since it wasn't reasonable for them to assume she would disappear/die

3) they didn't need to do anything as far as getting her home unless they had a reason to believe she would disappear/die

unless i'm reading the law incorrectly they only had a duty of care if she was in a state where it was reasonable to assume that something bad was going to happen to her and if they didn't leave her in the care of someone else.

they'll also say there's no proof anything happened to her.

it's an uphill battle that i don't believe the spierers care about winning. i think they're bringing the whole thing forward to force the defendants to respond, hoping that their response will give more answers or cause one of the three to crack and tell what actually happened.

 

[akh]

The parents are going to want to show that area to be a cesspool of crime and danger which will then strengthen their claim that LS shouldn't have left into the night alone in her condition (if she left at all). But even though there are certainly things that have happened in that area, I think the defendants will show that none of them considered that area any more dangerous than their own backyards and that students (and probably LS herself) had walked that same area alone at all hours many times previously.

They can probably still show it (students out at all hours) happening there.

I doubt LE considers that area a high crime rate area.

All of that will be a factor.

 

[Ros]

Does anyone have saved pdf copies of the 5N boys responses to the lawsuit? The links a few pages back have been removed, I guess I took to long to get back to them.

Also, just a question...not a theory really I just want to see what y'all think. How likely would it be that in an effort to bring Lauren around - so no one had to walk her the extraordinary hike back to her home- that they were able to get her to do some (more?) coke? If you think it's possible that may have happened, does that make it more likely that she did walk out and encounter someone else? Or more likely that it would've been the straw that broke the camels back and she crashed right then and there?

I really wish we knew more about CR, MB & JR's movements on Friday between 6 am and when Lauren was reported missing. What do we know about what they all did that day? Anything?

One other thing, I can't remember anymore, did Lauren lose her keys in the alley on way to SW from Kilroys or was that in the alley on the way to CR's from SW after he got clocked?

The links to the Spierer lawsuit and the defendants' responses are working again. http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/defendent-spierers-parents-cant-prove-laurens-dead

 

[Kadence]

. The article you quoted in this post said that CR vomited on the carpet as he went upstairs. I do not know of any other evidence.

Thanks Ros, I saw that in the article but I'm wondering if there is a way to provide proof/evidence that this indeed occurred, like DNA or something left on the stairs even though it may have been cleaned up? Just curious and forever looking for the truth and Lauren.

 

[Kadence]

it's going to be really hard to prove any of those -

1) she was also provided alcohol by bartenders and arguably provided herself with alcohol as well

2) all three defendants are likely to say they left her in the care of one or both of the other two defendants, or more likely that they had no duty of care since it wasn't reasonable for them to assume she would disappear/die

3) they didn't need to do anything as far as getting her home unless they had a reason to believe she would disappear/die

unless i'm reading the law incorrectly they only had a duty of care if she was in a state where it was reasonable to assume that something bad was going to happen to her and if they didn't leave her in the care of someone else.

they'll also say there's no proof anything happened to her.

it's an uphill battle that i don't believe the spierers care about winning. i think they're bringing the whole thing forward to force the defendants to respond, hoping that their response will give more answers or cause one of the three to crack and tell what actually happened.

Still haven't been able to master the "snipped" thingy so am quoting in entirety! I agree with you masootz with regard to your statement "it's an uphill battle that i don't believe the spierers care about winning. i think they're bringing the whole thing forward to force the defendants to respond, hoping that their response will give more answers or cause one of the three to crack and tell what actually happened." I think the Spierer's main interest and conviction at this point is to bring their daughter home, that's, imo, what they want the most.

As a parent, I would use whatever means possible and available to bring my child home. Hopefully someone can't stand the denial anymore (I couldn't imagine living a lie my entire life ) and will avail themselves of the truth because it's the right thing to do. If that doesn't speak to them then maybe this will: Eventually someone will talk, the first one to do so will probably get the most immunity - any takers? And if these two tactics don't work then how about if this was your missing child?! If you're reading, think about it. Yes, I'm talking to you. Please do the right thing and let the Spierers know where Lauren is.

 

[Jupiter812]

Apparently a hearing was/is today. The conference, to be held in the chambers of U.S. Southern District Magistrate Judge Tim Baker in Indianapolis, is not open to the public or the media. The purpose is agreeing on a schedule of hearings leading up to a proposed December 2014 trial date.

http://fox59.com/2013/08/21/hearing...n-spierers-parents-can-proceed/#axzz2cjI8V73D

 

[akh]

So was this simply a 'papers in order' housekeeping pre-trial conference or the hearing for the motion(s) to dismiss?

The article seems to have it both ways.

 

[Jupiter812]

Spierers’ lawsuit action suspended pending a motion to dismiss case

Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:37 pm

By Laura Lane 331-4362 | llane@heraldt.com

A federal court magistrate has put a hold of sorts on a civil lawsuit filed in the case of missing Indiana University student Lauren Spierer, advising both sides not to proceed until a ruling has been made on motions to dismiss the lawsuit.

After a closed pretrial scheduling hearing Thursday that lasted less than a hour, U.S. Magistrate for the Southern District of Indiana Tim Baker issued a ruling telling the attorneys to not proceed to the evidence-gathering portion of the case until federal Judge Tonya Walton Pratt has ruled on three motions to dismiss filed by the defendants in the case.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/

 

[akh]

http://www.wthr.com/story/23241067/2013/08/23/iu-freshman-dies-after-fall-down-stairs

This story is related only (apparently) as an example of college kids afraid to immediately call for help when an accident occurs at a party/drinking. They did call eventually, but apparently too late. Sad story.

 

[mfunky]

Apparently a hearing was/is today. The conference, to be held in the chambers of U.S. Southern District Magistrate Judge Tim Baker in Indianapolis, is not open to the public or the media. The purpose is agreeing on a schedule of hearings leading up to a proposed December 2014 trial date.

http://fox59.com/2013/08/21/hearing...n-spierers-parents-can-proceed/#axzz2cjI8V73D

December 2014?!?!?!? WOW.

Cannot imagine the day to day heartbreak the Spierer's continue to face....

 

[Ros]

http://www.wthr.com/story/23241067/2013/08/23/iu-freshman-dies-after-fall-down-stairs

This story is related only (apparently) as an example of college kids afraid to immediately call for help when an accident occurs at a party/drinking. They did call eventually, but apparently too late. Sad story.

Later reports say that her friends knew about the lifeline law but did not call because they did not think she was badly injured until several hours later when she was no longer breathing.
So very sad.

 

[imkeylime]

Later reports say that her friends knew about the lifeline law but did not call because they did not think she was badly injured until several hours later when she was no longer breathing.
So very sad.

Back home in New England and yes, so very sad. It's actually possible that this happened to LS. Maybe JR, for some very unknown reason and contrary to what many of us (me included) tend to believe, did let her leave. She could have fallen, as she'd done earlier in the night. And someone could have observed that ... and, freaked out by what had occurred, did the wrong thing. Or maybe the earlier fall had fatal consequences. ???

I totally approve of the lifeline law, but I guess further education is needed to help in its implementation.

 

[Ros]

Back home in New England and yes, so very sad. It's actually possible that this happened to LS. Maybe JR, for some very unknown reason and contrary to what many of us (me included) tend to believe, did let her leave. She could have fallen, as she'd done earlier in the night. And someone could have observed that ... and, freaked out by what had occurred, did the wrong thing. Or maybe the earlier fall had fatal consequences. ???

I totally approve of the lifeline law, but I guess further education is needed to help in its implementation.

Indiana's lifeline law did not go into effect until after LS disappeared, and IMHO, her disappearance was one of the many tragedies that brought about legislative action:
http://www.indianalifeline.org/press.html

Here's and article in the Indianapolis Star about the recent tragic death at IU: http://www.indystar.com/article/201...irl-dies-after-fall-down-stairs-party-near-IU

Perhaps young people need to know that any head injury is reason to seek immediate medical attention. It is better to get checked out unnecessarily than to avoid getting necessary help. Internal bleeding in the skull can be invisible and deadly.

 

[Ros]

Spierers’ lawsuit action suspended pending a motion to dismiss case

Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:37 pm

By Laura Lane 331-4362 | llane@heraldt.com

A federal court magistrate has put a hold of sorts on a civil lawsuit filed in the case of missing Indiana University student Lauren Spierer, advising both sides not to proceed until a ruling has been made on motions to dismiss the lawsuit.

After a closed pretrial scheduling hearing Thursday that lasted less than a hour, U.S. Magistrate for the Southern District of Indiana Tim Baker issued a ruling telling the attorneys to not proceed to the evidence-gathering portion of the case until federal Judge Tonya Walton Pratt has ruled on three motions to dismiss filed by the defendants in the case.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/

Here's the IDS version of the story:
http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=93667