IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #31

[Ixchel13]

because after all, the first one to come forward with the least involvement usually walks. If they wait till the whole shoe drops, and it will, everyone who hasn't come forward gets punished. Say someone knows what happened but didn't do anything to Lauren, but then helps LE solve the crime now, they could probably name their deal, and remain anonymous as a snitch, that's how badly they want to solve it. And the way these young people are, is anyone even still close friends or even acquaintances anymore? The gang is all split up now, and won't ever be getting back together!
If Zoe knows something, she should come forward NOW before these
wealthier kids do come forward and then she will be railroaded straight to jail as an accessory. JMO

 

[doubtingthomas]

The first I had heard about CR caring LS on his back and LS falling over and hitting her head was from the PI’s video. It was also here they mentioned about ringing the door bell at 10th & College. I don’t remember ZC’s name being mentioned. I doubt that LE or the PI’s could tell from the video whose apt CR was ringing. So, the only two people that would know that CR rang ZC’s door bell would be CR and the witness. IMO, the witness could only know if:

-They were in ZC’s apt when the doorbell was rung.
-They came out prior to CR ringing and saw him ring it. But they would have to know ZC and which apt was her’s.
-They knew CR and he told them

The only way ZC would know is if CR or the witness told her or she was actually there and not asleep and just didn’t answer. I find it interesting that ZC waits until after the PI’s disclose this and after the 5N guys have lawsuits filed against them to “set the record straight”.(my words not hers)

Some have asked why CR would stop by ZC’s place. IMO, he had just left SM after being punched. Not knowing if they were still there he couldn’t go back there. And, if he took LS back to her apt, how could he explain her condition to her roommates and anyone else there. So, knowing ZC had been at the party, she said she saw her doing shots, he could drop her off and make her ZC’s problem. He could wash his hands of her and hope that ZC would get her home or let her stay there and sleep it off. Please correct me if I have misstated anything.

 

[Chuz Life]

Bx2 already posted that the 'after 3 am' was a typo that was corrected.

I would like to see where Zoe Camp herself made that correction.

Here's why...

The timeline released by the police department would not have given Lauren and Corey enough time to stop by Zoe Camp's room before 2:51 am.

As you can see on the map. It took Lauren and Corey 6 Minutes from the time they left Smallwood until the were seen entering the alley north of 10th street. Even if they were moving at their faster pace (the pace they were moving when they left Kilroys - 150 fpm) it would have given them only 1 minute to a minute and a half to walk all the way over, try to get Zoe to answer, decide she wasn't going to answer and then get back to the alley.

Remember - Corey claims he was punched in the head, Lauren was seen falling at Smallwood... and there were flights of steps involved.

There aint no way (according to the police timeline) that Lauren and Corey stopped by Zoe Camps room prior to 2:51 am.

NONE.

LE has confirmed the last time Lauren was seen on video. They have also confirmed that she didn't appear at that location later.

I agree and I have indicated that on the map.

So, I don't really understand how ZC could be meaningful here.

It's meaningful because she has inserted herself into the chain of events.

Either they did stop by (at some point after 2:51 am) and the cameras just didn't catch it ; In which case she's a potential witness. Or they didn't stop at her place at all and Zoe is guilty of interfering with the investigation or worse.

I think they probably caught Lauren and Corey buzzing her apt. on surveillance.

I wish that were so because then the police could use it to either refine or to extend the timeline.

She didn't answer, so infers she was sleeping.

They probably were sleeping until they were awakened by the doorbell.

Even if she wasn't (sleeping), it doesn't make a difference since they did not answer the door...

I disagree.

I think it matters a great deal - because it changes the timeline and series of events. It's evidence.

I thought the timeline posted in the LoHud video made sense.

It may make sense but it can't overcome the laws of physics.

I feel like I'm sounding preachy and I don't mean to. The police are bound in a sense to the timeline that they released. Those times were established by the times stamps on the video images. And those times indicated do not allow for enough of a span for Lauren and Corey to have stopped by Zoe's room at any point prior to 2:51 am - when they were seen leaving the Alley.

 

[Chuz Life]

(Police Chief) Qualters said police also have no plans to release surveillance videos collected from apartment complexes and businesses in the area. He said the latest from those videos shows Spierer walking north of 10th Street between 3:15 and 3:30 a.m. the night she went missing, but he would not say whether she was alone or what else might have happened in the video.

LINK: http://ww.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/12/news.895757.sto

Yet the timeline released by BPD ends at only 2:51 at the point where Lauren and Corey exited the alley going North towards 5N Townhomes...

???

What gives?

Those videos would support Zoe Camp's and the Bar Manager's statements - that Lauren and Corey or someone else was on that side of 10th & College Apartments at that time ~ 3:00 - 3:30 am.

 

[Ixchel13]

LINK: http://ww.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/12/news.895757.sto

Yet the timeline released by BPD ends at only 2:51 at the point where Lauren and Corey exited the alley going North towards 5N Townhomes...

???

What gives?

Those videos would support Zoe Camp's and the Bar Manager's statements - that Lauren and Corey or someone else was on that side of 10th & College Apartments at that time ~ 3:00 - 3:30 am.

more of the same link snipped: BBM
There are still 10 people of interest in the case, but no suspects. Qualters said not all of those 10 people have been interviewed, but he's "encouraged" by their willingness to cooperate later this week.

"We're still very much in the information gathering stage," Qualters said. "Keep in mind there's no one we can prevent from leaving this community," because no one has been named a suspect. He would not say how many people have been interviewed, how many people have submitted DNA and polygraph tests, or how many search warrants have been executed.

Qualters said police also have no plans to release surveillance videos collected from apartment complexes and businesses in the area. He said the latest from those videos shows Spierer walking north of 10th Street between 3:15 and 3:30 a.m. the night she went missing, but he would not say whether she was alone or what else might have happened in the video.

No reason to think Capt. Qualters is lying.Looks like 24 min. after Lauren was supposedly in CR's apt and MB put him "to bed", she was walking north of 10th st., which could mean on actual 10th st. or on Morton, one st. west of 10th and bordering 10th and college villages, or, back in the alley for that matter.

At any rate, that basically debunks some of the theories that she never actually arrived at CRs, that she died before then and they put her in/next to the dumpster, etc. According to the police, then, she survived the alley trip with CR, which supports the PIs statements saying she was "very much alive" in the alley with CR.

MB said something like when he came back downstairs from taking care of CR she was gone--but then he says he took her over to JRs. To us, the oft uninformed, we took this as a lie, but since we never get the stories in full, looks like she was gone when he came downstairs, but then came back/was brought back, to CRs and then he took her over to JRs.

Everyone always wanted to know what she was doing for all that time after emerging from the alley at 2:51. Seems like she was back down trying to get into ZC's apt. again.

It is entirely possible that if she actually did leave JRs, which I've always been inclined to believe for some reason, she could have made yet another attempt to get in to ZC's.

At any rate, we have to quit saying the last time she was seen was emerging from the alley at 2:51, and that she was incapable of walking after that, looks like she did rally and was back out walking north of 10th st. between 3:15 and 3:30.

Not exonerating 5N POIs. But something just aint right here. It almost looks like the 5N suspects cooperated somewhat and that's why they're viewed as the ONLY suspects, when LE almost hints that there's someone else (plural?)
and something else before she arrived and then left JRs finally.
If that is true, she had to again pass by that area and situation on the way back to SW.

That brings me to JW. He could have prearranged the alibi of going to sleep with his buddies before stepping out on Lauren with another woman, then tells his parents it was Lauren who said she was going to bed and then lied!
After all, we only have his word that Lauren told him she was going to bed.
What if it was him all along that told Lauren that, and somehow she found out?
How many roommates did Zoe have? and did HT go over to Zoe's?
Notice also that all of Lauren's "friends" hinted that she was on a drug binge and had gone too far...maybe it was an unfaithful boyfriend who, angry at Laurens attempts to get him out of the apt, comes out and in a heated moment pushes her against the wall, she slams her head and that's how she
died. Then, that's how JR comes into it, to avoid any blackmail and fallout
from being the one who fuelled all of this chaos and tragedy, he sticks to his story and doesn't conjecture to LE what he might think happened.
all seriously MOO, JMO, IMO, and just one of many a theory.

 

[monkey222]

Clarification needed..Thx..So what time did any of the 5N boys say LS and CR arrived at 5N..even no xamera. And what time did JR see her rounding corner. Thx.

 

[Ixchel13]

Clarification needed..Thx..So what time did any of the 5N boys say LS and CR arrived at 5N..even no xamera. And what time did JR see her rounding corner. Thx.

good one, because we assumed she arrived right after the alley exit but do any of the 5N guys say when they actually arrived? JR is saying she left at 4:30.

 

[AbbeyR]

The article you are citing is from only a few days after Lauren went missing. LE then revised the timeline, releasing a detailed account on June 16 where they clarified that Lauren was last caught on video just before 3 am.

LE has specifically said that Lauren was not at 10th and College at 3:30 am.

 

[Chuz Life]

The article you are citing is from only a few days after Lauren went missing. LE then revised the timeline, releasing a detailed account on June 16 where they clarified that Lauren was last caught on video just before 3 am.

LE has specifically said that Lauren was not at 10th and College at 3:30 am.

Abbey, do you have any links to any articles or press releases along those lines?

If BPD really was that sloppy that early in their investigation, by releasing that the way they did... they were either completely inept or something worse.

I can't imagine how they could claim she was seen ON VIDEO after three - unless she was seen on video after three.

Something stinks.

 

[Chuz Life]

I agree with almost all of your analysis except for this part, Ixchel

<snipped> At any rate, that basically debunks some of the theories that she never actually arrived at CRs <snipped>

I think it's still possible that Lauren never actually made it back to 5N. She probably did but I can't say she did for sure.

It's just as likely (in my view) that they were going door to door and trying to find someone else to help with her or to take her in. I think they knew she was in bad shape and they didn't want her at their place.

 

[akh]

If CR was trying to get rid of LS, or find her help, then what was the point of taking her from Smallwood (if she did in fact not simply follow him after the altercation)? He had her back to her apartment bldng so why not leave her there? Obviously we know there were people there. And if he's trying to find her help then what was the point of the altercation?

 

[Btown]

Clarification needed..Thx..So what time did any of the 5N boys say LS and CR arrived at 5N..even no xamera. And what time did JR see her rounding corner. Thx.

Lauren exits the alley @ 2:51.

MB arrived at his apartment at approximately 3:30.
Spierer Complaint Page 4 line 27

JR saw her near 11th & College at approximately 4:30.
Spierer Complaint Page 5 line 34

 

[imkeylime]

If CR was trying to get rid of LS, or find her help, then what was the point of taking her from Smallwood (if she did in fact not simply follow him after the altercation)? He had her back to her apartment bldng so why not leave her there? Obviously we know there were people there. And if he's trying to find her help then what was the point of the altercation?

Agreed. IMO, CR was interested in more than helping LS. I wonder if they went back to SW for coke or something of that nature and then perhaps continued to search for it. It might have been of more interest to CR than LS, even ... he may have wanted to keep the "party" going.

I used to think going to SW was for replacement shoes or just to hang out. But the fact that they allegedly made a stop at another apartment building suggests they were seeking something. And I doubt it was another party, since I suspect CR wanted to be alone with her. JMO.

PS: My rationale for this is that he seemed possessive in the various accounts of the night. It would also be a continuation of his alleged behavior (giving her alcohol) at Sports.

 

[Chuz Life]

If CR was trying to get rid of LS, or find her help, then what was the point of taking her from Smallwood (if she did in fact not simply follow him after the altercation)? He had her back to her apartment bldng so why not leave her there? Obviously we know there were people there. And if he's trying to find her help then what was the point of the altercation?

I think things changed from minute to minute that night.

Again, though... all of this (most of it) is only a theory and an attempt to keep all of the know facts and the witness statement's plausible.

This is ONLY my theory but here it is.

1. I think Lauren and Corey did some flirting at the Indy 500 and they wanted to hook up.
2. I think for that reason and maybe some others reasons, Lauren and Jesse were cooling off. (taking some time apart - if not breaking up)
3. I think Jesse knew of Corey Rossman and maybe of his hots for Lauren.
4. I think Lauren and Corey had planned to hook up by claiming Lauren was going to bed.
5. I think Jesse suspected as much and either asked his frat brothers to keep an eye on Lauren or he was up himself being informed by them.
6. We know that Lauren and Hadar were watching the game and drinking wine at Smallwood.
7. We know that David Rohn took Lauren to 5N Townhomes to the 'pregame party' and to hook up with Corey.
8. We know that David Rohn left her there with him and returned to Smallwood shortly after dropping Lauren off.
9. We know that they did some heavy drinking and drugs before heading off to Kilroy's.
10. We know that Lauren (at least) was pretty trashed by then and was kicked out of Kilroy's.
11. We know that Corey was banned from the premises of Smallwood.
12. We know that Corey was confronted by one or more who wanted to see Lauren brought back to her room.
13. We know that Zach Oakes punched Corey in the face for something he said to Zach and or the rest of the group.
14. I believe this changed the Lauren's intent to go to her room to get shoes or whatever else her reason was for returning to Smallwood.
15. Now, feeling sorry for and maybe responsible for Corey getting hit - & maybe scared that he may be followed, she went with him towards 5N.
16. I believe that Lauren's conditioned worsened as they walked and she was getting weaker to the point that she fell hard enough to scare Corey (as seen on video).
17. I believe that someone from Smallwood called ahead to Rosenbam's to let them know that Corey and Lauren were coming their way.
18. I believe that Rosenbaum and maybe others intercepted Corey and Lauren in the vacant lot just after 2:51 a.m. and that they seen that Lauren was critical and they didn't want her back in 5N.
19. I think they then made Corey try to take Lauren to Zoe Camp's room and they may have even called her to give her a heads up.
20. I believe that about 3:00 a.m. Corey and Lauren tried to get Zoe to answer the door and she wouldn't.
21. I believe it was during this time that Rosenbaum, Beth and everyone else started working on their "story."
22. I believe it was while in the area of Zoe camp's apartment someone (dark skinned mystery many) took over from Corey and sent him back to 5N where he may have thrown up - I believe from the stress of Lauren's condition.
23. I believe the so called mystery man was then on the steps with Lauren at 3:38 am like the 'Bar Manager' witness claims she saw.
24. Finally, I believe the mystery man dragged (carried) Lauren back into the alley or at least in that direction and she was gone from there & then put her into a car, dumpster or ?
25. I also believe that everyone involved knows who the so called "Mystery Man" is and their entire motivation for not disclosing it is a combination of each their own illegal involvement, guilt feelings, covering for their friends, fear and maybe even a little bit of resentment against Lauren for her part in it.

Again, though... all of this (most of it) is only a theory and an attempt to keep all of the know facts and the witness statement's plausible.

 

[monkey222]

Akh..re: not leaving LS at SW..IMO..CR..and LS were both hammered..so no logic to decision making...

 

[AbbeyR]

So why do you think LE and the PI's have said there is no mystery man? Why would the PIs identify this person as Corey Rossman if it were someone else, when there is obviously video evidence that shows them together?

Many of the things on that timeline are not actually confirmed, but come from rumors, while you have left out the few 'known facts' that have been confirmed by LE and the PIs. I don't really understand the logic of this, but still appreciate you sharing your theory -- it's useful to think about the information we have in new ways.

Edited to add: @ChuzLife, the statements from LE and transcripts from press conferences are all in the early threads here. There is also a media thread that has links to all of the early articles.

 

[monkey222]

Becuz there is no mystery man. It is Cr.

 

[Chuz Life]

So why do you think LE and the PI's have said there is no mystery man? Why would the PIs identify this person as Corey Rossman if it were someone else, when there is obviously video evidence that shows them together? <snipped>

Like I said, that was only a theory and an attempt to make sense of the witnesses statements.

There is a lot more investigating that needs to be done.

Your mention of the facts is something interests me. Has anyone taken the time to catalogue all of the known and verified facts?

If not, that's something I might start working on for the reference section.

 

[Ixchel13]

I think things changed from minute to minute that night.

Again, though... all of this (most of it) is only a theory and an attempt to keep all of the know facts and the witness statement's plausible.

This is ONLY my theory but here it is.

1. I think Lauren and Corey did some flirting at the Indy 500 and they wanted to hook up.
2. I think for that reason and maybe some others reasons, Lauren and Jesse were cooling off. (taking some time apart - if not breaking up)
3. I think Jesse knew of Corey Rossman and maybe of his hots for Lauren.
4. I think Lauren and Corey had planned to hook up by claiming Lauren was going to bed.
5. I think Jesse suspected as much and either asked his frat brothers to keep an eye on Lauren or he was up himself being informed by them.
6. We know that Lauren and Hadar were watching the game and drinking wine at Smallwood.
7. We know that David Rohn took Lauren to 5N Townhomes to the 'pregame party' and to hook up with Corey.
8. We know that David Rohn left her there with him and returned to Smallwood shortly after dropping Lauren off.
9. We know that they did some heavy drinking and drugs before heading off to Kilroy's.
10. We know that Lauren (at least) was pretty trashed by then and was kicked out of Kilroy's.
11. We know that Corey was banned from the premises of Smallwood.
12. We know that Corey was confronted by one or more who wanted to see Lauren brought back to her room.
13. We know that Zach Oakes punched Corey in the face for something he said to Zach and or the rest of the group.
14. I believe this changed the Lauren's intent to go to her room to get shoes or whatever else her reason was for returning to Smallwood.
15. Now, feeling sorry for and maybe responsible for Corey getting hit - & maybe scared that he may be followed, she went with him towards 5N.
16. I believe that Lauren's conditioned worsened as they walked and she was getting weaker to the point that she fell hard enough to scare Corey (as seen on video).
17. I believe that someone from Smallwood called ahead to Rosenbam's to let them know that Corey and Lauren were coming their way.
18. I believe that Rosenbaum and maybe others intercepted Corey and Lauren in the vacant lot just after 2:51 a.m. and that they seen that Lauren was critical and they didn't want her back in 5N.
19. I think they then made Corey try to take Lauren to Zoe Camp's room and they may have even called her to give her a heads up.
20. I believe that about 3:00 a.m. Corey and Lauren tried to get Zoe to answer the door and she wouldn't.
21. I believe it was during this time that Rosenbaum, Beth and everyone else started working on their "story."
22. I believe it was while in the area of Zoe camp's apartment someone (dark skinned mystery many) took over from Corey and sent him back to 5N where he may have thrown up - I believe from the stress of Lauren's condition.
23. I believe the so called mystery man was then on the steps with Lauren at 3:38 am like the 'Bar Manager' witness claims she saw.
24. Finally, I believe the mystery man dragged (carried) Lauren back into the alley or at least in that direction and she was gone from there & then put her into a car, dumpster or ?
25. I also believe that everyone involved knows who the so called "Mystery Man" is and their entire motivation for not disclosing it is a combination of each their own illegal involvement, guilt feelings, covering for their friends, fear and maybe even a little bit of resentment against Lauren for her part in it.

Again, though... all of this (most of it) is only a theory and an attempt to keep all of the know facts and the witness statement's plausible.

for the first time I can see the 5N guys total involvement, because you have included the others. Still think Hadar is in there somewhere. Your theory is both logical and plausible without a terrible violent end for Lauren. The mystery man is our local, or someone knew a local.

 

[Chuz Life]

for the first time I can see the 5N guys total involvement, because you have included the others. Still think Hadar is in there somewhere. Your theory is both logical and plausible without a terrible violent end for Lauren. The mystery man is our local, or someone knew a local.

Thank you Ixchel.

I left a few things out of that theory that I probably should have included.

"Where WAS Hadar that night - that she didn't know that Lauren never returned?"

If your 'BFF' room-mate was that wasted and with a guy NOT her boyfriend who gets his *advertiser censored* kicked in the lobby of your apartment complex.... How do you not follow up on that?

How does she not know that Lauren never made it back?

How does she not care enough - that she can sleep (somewhere) that night... and not make it a priority to know what else happened?