IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #31

[monkey222]

From what I recall from reports..Hadar went to class in the am...knowing LS was not in their apt. She reported that she did not know if LS returned at some point in the am while she was on campus. I think this is what she told JW..so he went to get apt keys from H during her class to see if LS returned. Lets look at this timeline...vs when 5N boy.s.made comment re have u seen a little.blonde girl..when at CVS. All 5his activity very early before 10am..IMO.

 

[Chuz Life]

From what I recall from reports..Hadar went to class in the am...knowing LS was not in their apt. She reported that she did not know if LS returned at some point in the am while she was on campus. I think this is what she told JW..so he went to get apt keys from H during her class to see if LS returned. Lets look at this timeline...vs when 5N boy.s.made comment re have u seen a little.blonde girl..when at CVS. All 5his activity very early before 10am..IMO.

Thank you M222.

That helps but it still doesn't make Hadar seem like a caring friend to me.

She had to have known about the fight in the lobby and she has to know more than she is telling.

 

[akh]

Was the CVS 'search' confirmed to be on the morning of the 3rd... or the 4th?

 

[monkey222]

It was the Fri am after debacle night. I think a news report had it on a Saturday but that was an error.

 

[Jupiter812]

Thank you M222.

That helps but it still doesn't make Hadar seem like a caring friend to me.

She had to have known about the fight in the lobby and she has to know more than she is telling.

Why did she "have" to know? She could have been out of too; she could have been on a different floor; she could have been aware of it after the fact. Furthermore, maybe HT has told what she knows.

I'm aware of your disclaimer that everything is a "theory," but when you speak in absolutes, it weakens an otherwise decent argument and I find myself dismissing it.

All said in appreciation of your input... eace:

 

[Jacobite]

I don't think any of the girls are involved in any conspiracy. In fact, I doubt they are in the know. I believe they would tell if they had knowledge of Lauren's fate.

 

[akh]

It was the Fri am after debacle night. I think a news report had it on a Saturday but that was an error.

I was thinking this was part of the reporting that had the wrong month attached but was stating it happened the 4th of whatever month that was reported. And it mentioned 'the next morning'. So the question became did it mean the morning of the 4th or just a few hours later when the sun arose on the morning everything had happened?

Once the month was wrong it threw everything else into question. But I don't recall that ever officially being answered. At this point I don't recall if the CVS info even was part of that report though.

There has been so much speculation, rumor, and theory that have been stated as fact at times that it's hard to keep track of what belongs in the 'confirmed' category versus the 'questionable'.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Yeah, I don't know what all this is about ZC suddenly, but there is plenty of media out there that indicates the time directly before Rossman and Lauren stopped by ZC's apartment, the time while at ZC's apartment, and the time from them leaving ZC's until they entering into the alley on the way the 5N is all on video and the PI's give a pretty full narrative of all of these events-from watching the video. The fact that Lauren and Cory stopped by ZC's has been out there since pretty much the beginning and I don't think ZC has inserted herself as much as she has just elected to speak publicly and offer what details of the evening she could, but none of these details had been withheld from investigators.
http://www.lohud.com/flash/spierer/

 

[AbbeyR]

Akh, there were two different reports: The neighbor, CM, who reported that CR asked if he had 'seen a little blonde girl' -- This was the one with the date reported as Feb. 4th. And then there was another report from a friend from Smallwood who ran into MB and CR on Friday at CVS.

 

[AbbeyR]

The article is offline now, but here is the quote: (snipped from an earlier post)

"A friend of Rossman's told The Journal News on Friday that Rossman looked groggy but OK several hours afterward and was aware that Spierer was missing. The friend, a male Indiana University student who lives in Spierer's building, said he ran into Rossman at a CVS pharmacy the afternoon of June 3 and saw no redness or bruising on his face.

He said Rossman was with Beth and told him that Spierer had been in their apartment early that morning.

The friend spoke on the condition his name not be used because he did not want to anger Rossman and did not want police to know he was speaking about the case with a reporter.

He said Rossman recalled having a lot to drink the previous night and said he went home and passed out. Beth told the friend he put Rossman to bed and that Spierer wanted to leave. Beth told the friend he watched her walk out the door and down the street on her way home, the friend said.

According to the friend, Beth and Rossman are not just roommates, but also close friends; he described Rossman as "cool and sometimes cocky" and Beth as his slightly younger buddy who looked up to Rossman."

 

[akh]

So it was not before 10AM and instead was "several hours afterward" and sometime in the "afternoon". That makes a rather large difference in some of the things we could assume because by afternoon there could've been several phone calls, emails, and/or texts flying and someone could've informed CR she is missing.

It at least takes away the assumption he -publicly- knew she was missing before the actual wheels were set in motion by JW.

...Assuming we can take that report at face value anyway...
I say that because it does seem to merge JR's part into the story with the "watched her walk out the door and down the street on her way home" line. But that could be easily explained with the fact that reporting on the story had trouble understanding the complexity of a 3rd person (JR) placing himself seeing her after CR/MB. So the reporter (and/or friend) could've misunderstood what was said exactly, missed a reference to JR, misunderstood the use of the word 'we' in the context it was meant, etc...

 

[Chuz Life]

Thank you M222.

That helps but it still doesn't make Hadar seem like a caring friend to me.

She had to have known about the fight in the lobby and she has to know more than she is telling.

Why did she "have" to know? She could have been out of town she could have been on a different floor; she could have been aware of it after the fact. Furthermore, maybe HT has told what she knows.

Call it a scepticism or disbelief on my part but I would have to see everyone's phone and texting records along with their computer activity to better accept that no body let her know about any of the events that night.

I'm aware of your disclaimer that everything is a "theory," but when you speak in absolutes, it weakens an otherwise decent argument and I find myself dismissing it.

All said in appreciation of your input... eace:

I understand and I didn't mean for it to be taken as an absolute. I don't know how I could have made it more clear - that I was only theorizing.

 

[AbbeyR]

So it was not before 10AM and instead was "several hours afterward" and sometime in the "afternoon". That makes a rather large difference in some of the things we could assume because by afternoon there could've been several phone calls, emails, and/or texts flying and someone could've informed CR she is missing.

It at least takes away the assumption he -publicly- knew she was missing before the actual wheels were set in motion by JW.

Right. I don't think this was a random conversation -- they must have been looking for Lauren, and likely CR, at this point.

...Assuming we can take that report at face value anyway...
I say that because it does seem to merge JR's part into the story with the "watched her walk out the door and down the street on her way home" line. But that could be easily explained with the fact that reporting on the story had trouble understanding the complexity of a 3rd person (JR) placing himself seeing her after CR/MB. So the reporter (and/or friend) could've misunderstood what was said exactly, missed a reference to JR, misunderstood the use of the word 'we' in the context it was meant, etc...

True. But like the other witness accounts, these are people who knew MB and CR, not a random stranger who didn't know the difference, and they recount all recount specific (and different) stories from MB. Based on all of these stories together, I think it's possible there were mistakes in reporting, but I also think it's likely that MB omitted JR from the stories, just as JR seems to have omitted MB as well. In all early accounts, including from the lawyers, you wouldn't know that MB had brought Lauren over to JR's. It's odd, to say the least, to have the last people with Lauren be so unclear about the timeline leading up to her disappearance.

 

[AbbeyR]

Very curious observations. Yes, as it was unfolding I remember being so hungry for information that the Gatto news was gobbled up. There is also no question that various posters seemed to have agendas.

But i'm not quite sure if you are suggesting that CR supplied this information to Gatto himself? If so, it would seem like a risky move on his part as the amnesia story seemed to serve him well. But with respect to your specific examples doesn't the distortions of the "Mystery Man" not only deflect from CR but JR as well? I really do wonder how Gatto found the Bar Manager.
Why do you think the Bar Manager would insist and use such a specific time as 3:38 when it had to be off by pretty much exactly 1 hr?
Are you suggesting a possible conspiracy here to distort the facts?
Essentially obstruction of justice?

I'm not sure what I'm suggesting either, ha. I just think there are some questions about Tony Gatto's reporting that point to someone deliberately trying to take the focus off of CR. Tony himself has questioned the reliability of his sources, which makes me wonder whether they were just online tipsters or whether he knew their identities. In some cases, the information seems to have been totally false, and it's hard to imagine where a witness could have even come from. For example, who could the source have been who supposedly saw Corey run out of Smallwood and Lauren follow?

- We now know that wasn't true, because it was captured on surveillance video
- We also know the witnesses were on the 5th floor,and their story directly contradicts the one that Gatto told about CR being 'jumped'
- We have no reports of any other witnesses in the lobby. So that leaves CR and Lauren...
- Before there was news of surveillance video, CR's lawyer also jumped in and told a story that wasn't true to the media, about Lauren helping CR home.

All of this suggests to me that CR was trying to control the public understanding of the case by spreading misinformation. He wasn't the only one though... So I think TG's 'sources' could very well be connected to the POI.

This was definitely the case on PT, both from the sources who admitted their connections to the POI, and those who didn't.

About the bar manager, I think it's possible she was just wrong about the time, and Gatto ran with it.

 

[Ixchel13]

Call it a scepticism or disbelief on my part but I would have to see everyone's phone and texting records along with their computer activity to better accept that no body let her know about any of the events that night.



I understand and I didn't mean for it to be taken as an absolute. I don't know how I could have made it more clear - that I was only theorizing.

please don't anyone take this as snarky, but as long as we're theorizing about the 5N POIs, anything goes, but as soon as we include anyone else, and remember, there's TEN POIs, none have been cleared, people chime in to defend them.

 

[AbbeyR]

The 10 POI thing is silly. It was a number that was said in the first few days after Lauren went missing, after which LE said it was just a ballpark number that was evolving as they went forward. There are only 4 POI who have been named, and who are obviously the focus of the investigation. That hasn't changed since Day One.

- Corey Rossman, Mike Beth, Jay Rosenbaum and Jesse Wolff

And the bottom line is, there is not any evidence to suggest she ever left 5 N, the people last with her have told conflicting stories and refuse to fully cooperate with the investigation.

Any theory is worth considering, but some scenarios are obviously more likely than others.

 

[Chuz Life]

please don't anyone take this as snarky, but as long as we're theorizing about the 5N POIs, anything goes, but as soon as we include anyone else, and remember, there's TEN POIs, none have been cleared, people chime in to defend them.

I tried to avoid all that by saying It was only a theory.

I really am trying to go only where the facts go and I probably should not have shared my 'theory' at all (in hindsight).

Right now, I'm trying to reconcile the Police released timeline with the one given by Bo Dietl (spelling?) and the other PI's.

Man, I wish we had more access to the available video data.

 

[Chuz Life]

This picture (provided by Btown) shows three cameras that can be seen in the alleys North and South of 10th Street.

1. The rear of Morton Mansions apartments
2. The South West Corner of 10th & College Apartments
3. The North West Corner of 10th & College Apartments.

The police and other timelines seem to indicate that Lauren and Corey came North, straight up the alleyways and if that's true - they would have passed these cameras in order. 1,2,3.

If Corey & Lauren and came up College Ave. to the steps (SE corner of 10th & College Apartment complex), sat down, Lauren falls over, etc... as Bo Dietl's and other timelines show?

Then camera #1 would NOT have caught them coming out of the alley behind Morton Mansions.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because I'm still trying to map the exact routes taken - along with the camera locations and the locations of the other (witnessed?) events.

Does anyone know if the camera behind Morton Mansions (#1) has ever been specifically mentioned in any police releases of information? Video from that camera would tell us whether Corey and Lauren walked straight up the Alley... or straight up College Ave - to the steps - and then to the Alley as the PI's seem to claim. .

Specifically, I'm trying to see if LS and CR passed camera #1 (Morton Mansions) at all after 2:42 a.m. and if they did pass that camera... How much time between then and when they passed camera # 2 (SW corner of College Apts)?

 

[Chuz Life]

About the bar manager, I think it's possible she was just wrong about the time, and Gatto ran with it.

I have soooo many questions for the bar manager witness.

Here are my top two.

1. What time did you get off work?
2. What time does the 'boy' you were visiting recall you being there and leaving?

 

[Ixchel13]

:seeya:

The 10 POI thing is silly. It was a number that was said in the first few days after Lauren went missing, after which LE said it was just a ballpark number that was evolving as they went forward. There are only 4 POI who have been named, and who are obviously the focus of the investigation. That hasn't changed since Day One.

- Corey Rossman, Mike Beth, Jay Rosenbaum and Jesse Wolff

And the bottom line is, there is not any evidence to suggest she ever left 5 N, the people last with her have told conflicting stories and refuse to fully cooperate with the investigation.

Any theory is worth considering, but some scenarios are obviously more likely than others.

Sorry, it's not silly. So now, Abbey, you're contradicting LE--how in heaven's name do you know there are no more POIs? I just gotta totally and compl:cheers:etely disagree with that, in a mature, give and take way.