IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #32

[holly18]

I think technology had a hand in hiding who was contacted and how. I think JR used his iPod for messenger, Facebook, text apps, Skype or FaceTime to call. I think he was honest about Lauren mistaking it for her phone after seeing or hearing him use it. I don't know if I have a lot of faith in the local LE investigation in that regard. I think they possibly have overlooked a lot of possible info. I bet JR's iPod was never investigated as I am sure his phone was. JW has said he continued to call her phone. I don't think he gave up since he "always had to take care of her". I think he did.

I agree that I'm not sure LE has looked into everything they probably should have. One question though: (I have an old classic ipod, it doesn't have wifi or apps, so I'm not sure how this would work) If JR used his ipod to text or otherwise contact JW wouldn't there be a record of it on JW's phone, even if there wasn't one on JR's? Since JW was the boyfriend, I'd like to think that LE looked closely at him, or at the very least looked into his phone records, surveillance tape by his apartment, etc. but who knows

I can't really see JW being in cahoots with JR or CR, IMO I think its either or, not both (or a stranger abduction)

Also where did you hear that JW is in Michigan? His facebook was fairly recently updated to say that he's living in NYC. If he is living in michigan and working with JR/DB, thats certainly a red flag, imo

 

[holly18]

Of course it doesn't make it true. I think people just use their experiences to help explain why they think something is suspicious or odd, or that it actually does make sense to them.



I must have missed that post. Do you know where he posted that? I had actually thought JW was working for what I always thought was a family company. His linkedin profile says he got a new job this year though, but his new job's contact info lists addresses in NY, IL, & MD, but not MI.

Just checked linkedin, he lists greater nyc area as his residence and it seems like the HQ for the new company is in nyc

 

[Ixchel13]

I think technology had a hand in hiding who was contacted and how. I think JR used his iPod for messenger, Facebook, text apps, Skype or FaceTime to call. I think he was honest about Lauren mistaking it for her phone after seeing or hearing him use it. I don't know if I have a lot of faith in the local LE investigation in that regard. I think they possibly have overlooked a lot of possible info. I bet JR's iPod was never investigated as I am sure his phone was. JW has said he continued to call her phone. I don't think he gave up since he "always had to take care of her". I think he did.

JR and DB own a techno ap biz. If anyone can make a connection without being traced, it's these two. They know all about how pings work. Burner phones are being used, I see them, also there's something called "jailbreaking" a phone that makes it untraceable but aps still work.

 

[Ixchel13]

I agree that I'm not sure LE has looked into everything they probably should have. One question though: (I have an old classic ipod, it doesn't have wifi or apps, so I'm not sure how this would work) If JR used his ipod to text or otherwise contact JW wouldn't there be a record of it on JW's phone, even if there wasn't one on JR's? Since JW was the boyfriend, I'd like to think that LE looked closely at him, or at the very least looked into his phone records, surveillance tape by his apartment, etc. but who knows

I can't really see JW being in cahoots with JR or CR, IMO I think its either or, not both (or a stranger abduction)

Also where did you hear that JW is in Michigan? His facebook was fairly recently updated to say that he's living in NYC. If he is living in michigan and working with JR/DB, thats certainly a red flag, imo

BBM...yeah...super big red flag.

 

[sammi89]

JR and DB own a techno ap biz. If anyone can make a connection without being traced, it's these two. They know all about how pings work. Burner phones are being used, I see them, also there's something called "jailbreaking" a phone that makes it untraceable but aps still work.

I think jailbreaking just makes it easier to install 3rd party apps/get around Apple limitations, not necessarily that it makes it untraceable. Maybe there is a 3rd party app for that but idk.

I'm also not sure about burner phones being used by them or that they necessarily know "all about" how pings work. They are probably decently tech savvy but I'm not really sure how far that would go.

Interestingly though, I looked up DB/JR's linkedin too. DB hasn't worked at the tech startup for awhile now, although JR's profile still has him going at it.

 

[doubtingthomas]

The RS/CS suit filed states MB returned home from JR's at 3:30. He thought the apartment had been burglarized.

From the following link: http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/features/story.aspx?ID=1712477

Valerie Sokolova, a neighbor, tells IM that Beth has said he went upstairs and, when he returned, Spierer was gone. “That was the last time Mike and Corey saw her,” says Sokolova.

So what IF MB came home and saw LS on the couch thinking she was passed out and went upstairs to find CR, thus using this as his putting CR to bed. When he returned LS was gone. But instead of going to JR's she stumbled down College where the bar manager claims to have seen the "mystery man" with LS at 3:38.

A police spokesman would later confirm that investigators looked into the bar manager’s account but couldn’t find video evidence to support the witness’s timeline. I have not found anywhere LE has said this did not happen, only that they could not confirm it on video.

So now MB calls JR to see if LS is there. Finding out she is not there he goes to JR's and they begin to make calls.

So now you may wonder, why say she was there and you saw her leave if she wasn't. Because you know you have given her drinks, possibly drugs, her face is bruised and you don't know where she is. Therefore you do not know who she might run into who is going to ask a lot of questions.

One of the calls made might have been to 10th & College. So mystery man intercepts her. Now the questions is, where did they go and what happened to LS.

This is only a what if scenario.

 

[sammi89]

BBM let's put it this way, sammi, they know a loooooooooooooooooooot about
tech, not just decently savvy, but gifted. I'm not sure when you came into all of this, but we have been tracking these guys for 3 years. Because you can't find it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist, lol! LinkedIn is ok, but you're not going to turn up anything that everyone else isn't seeing right away there. Rest assured that they live, breathe and party tech. They keep morphing and changing and selling these tech aps as they go. And, if they are doing anything illegal, like selling dope for example, you won't find it on their I phones!! These guys are way ahead of the average tech user and why is it so hard to believe they use burner phones? If you have a doubt, look at some other threads here, like Alexis Murphy, and read about even the most idiotic
dumb butt killer, he had burner phones all over the place and didn't even own a tech company.
These guys are all over the place with start up companies, even involved with companies that specialize in starting up ap companies and then selling them right away.

BBM

I have kept up with the case pretty well, IMO.

How do you know any of that (the bolded assertions)? If you have other information, please share it. Otherwise, isn't that speculation?

 

[holly18]

The RS/CS suit filed states MB returned home from JR's at 3:30. He thought the apartment had been burglarized.

From the following link: http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/features/story.aspx?ID=1712477

Valerie Sokolova, a neighbor, tells IM that Beth has said he went upstairs and, when he returned, Spierer was gone. “That was the last time Mike and Corey saw her,” says Sokolova.

So what IF MB came home and saw LS on the couch thinking she was passed out and went upstairs to find CR, thus using this as his putting CR to bed. When he returned LS was gone. But instead of going to JR's she stumbled down College where the bar manager claims to have seen the "mystery man" with LS at 3:38.

A police spokesman would later confirm that investigators looked into the bar manager’s account but couldn’t find video evidence to support the witness’s timeline. I have not found anywhere LE has said this did not happen, only that they could not confirm it on video.

So now MB calls JR to see if LS is there. Finding out she is not there he goes to JR's and they begin to make calls.

So now you may wonder, why say she was there and you saw her leave if she wasn't. Because you know you have given her drinks, possibly drugs, her face is bruised and you don't know where she is. Therefore you do not know who she might run into who is going to ask a lot of questions.

One of the calls made might have been to 10th & College. So mystery man intercepts her. Now the questions is, where did they go and what happened to LS.

This is only a what if scenario.

BBM. I don't really understand your reasoning re: the bolded part. If the boys supplied her with drinks or drugs, and knew her face was bruised, doesn't it make more sense to say that she left without their knowledge than to say they allowed her to leave? If she left while MB was with CR and he didn't notice until she was gone, there was nothing he could have done, on the other hand, according to their story, they are all now in the position of having to defend their decision to allow her to leave. Thats way more responsibility than just saying "she left on her own when I was out of the room". Either way they could get in trouble for the drinks and or drugs, but they would bear far less responsibility if Lauren herself made the decision to leave when they were not present to talk her out of it/offer to call a cab/call a friend.

 

[doubtingthomas]

If the boys supplied her with drinks or drugs, and knew her face was bruised, doesn't it make more sense to say that she left without their knowledge than to say they allowed her to leave?.

Snipped by me.

No it doesn't make more sense to me. In my scenario she left without their knowledge. They don't know where she is or who she might run into, like BPD. Then she explains the events of the night and they are in deep dodo. In the last line of my post I state they make the call to the mystery man. So if that were the case wouldn't the mystery man let them know he found her. Now they know where she is and they can make up any story they want to. Like she was here but she left on her own. And they don't have to worry who she might run into.

 

[Ixchel13]

The RS/CS suit filed states MB returned home from JR's at 3:30. He thought the apartment had been burglarized.

From the following link: http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/features/story.aspx?ID=1712477

Valerie Sokolova, a neighbor, tells IM that Beth has said he went upstairs and, when he returned, Spierer was gone. “That was the last time Mike and Corey saw her,” says Sokolova.

So what IF MB came home and saw LS on the couch thinking she was passed out and went upstairs to find CR, thus using this as his putting CR to bed. When he returned LS was gone. But instead of going to JR's she stumbled down College where the bar manager claims to have seen the "mystery man" with LS at 3:38.

.
A police spokesman would later confirm that investigators looked into the bar manager’s account but couldn’t find video evidence to support the witness’s timeline. I have not found anywhere LE has said this did not happen, only that they could not confirm it on video.

So now MB calls JR to see if LS is there. Finding out she is not there he goes to JR's and they begin to make calls.

So now you may wonder, why say she was there and you saw her leave if she wasn't. Because you know you have given her drinks, possibly drugs, her face is bruised and you don't know where she is. Therefore you do not know who she might run into who is going to ask a lot of questions.

One of the calls made might have been to 10th & College. So mystery man intercepts her. Now the questions is, where did they go and what happened to LS.

This is only a what if scenario.

This scenario gives me goosebumps, because it explains the 3:38 confrontation at 10th and College in which I am a firm believer, no matter who says someone said differently.

 

[Ixchel13]

BBM. I don't really understand your reasoning re: the bolded part. If the boys supplied her with drinks or drugs, and knew her face was bruised, doesn't it make more sense to say that she left without their knowledge than to say they allowed her to leave? If she left while MB was with CR and he didn't notice until she was gone, there was nothing he could have done, on the other hand, according to their story, they are all now in the position of having to defend their decision to allow her to leave. Thats way more responsibility than just saying "she left on her own when I was out of the room". Either way they could get in trouble for the drinks and or drugs, but they would bear far less responsibility if Lauren herself made the decision to leave when they were not present to talk her out of it/offer to call a cab/call a friend.

MB has 3 different versions. #1, he helps CR to bed and then walks Lauren over to JRs and leaves. #2, she is gone when he gets back. #3, and interestingly, in his deposition, he walks her over and then helps make calls to her friends. So, he's a liar. about something but we don't know what.

He admits asking Lauren to stay over on his couch, and he also admits that she declined and just wanted to go home. 3 minute walk to Smallwood.

If the person who sold her the klonopin gets caught, they are in trouble, plain and simple, especially if the same person gave her, a minor and already intoxicated, more booze. As I have said, it comes with the territory of being a drug dealer. It is the drug dealers fault. Usually, nothing like this happens, but when it does, then the dealer is to blame simply because no drug sale, no OD.

 

[Ixchel13]

BBM. I don't really understand your reasoning re: the bolded part. If the boys supplied her with drinks or drugs, and knew her face was bruised, doesn't it make more sense to say that she left without their knowledge than to say they allowed her to leave? If she left while MB was with CR and he didn't notice until she was gone, there was nothing he could have done, on the other hand, according to their story, they are all now in the position of having to defend their decision to allow her to leave. Thats way more responsibility than just saying "she left on her own when I was out of the room". Either way they could get in trouble for the drinks and or drugs, but they would bear far less responsibility if Lauren herself made the decision to leave when they were not present to talk her out of it/offer to call a cab/call a friend.

BBM we don't really know what makes more sense. But they are admitting to being the last ones with her, which, if we don't believe them anyway, points to
something else all together happening after she left. IMO, this way, JR is giving "whomever" a chance to squirm out of trouble, while allowing himself
to hold fast to his story that she walked away. IMO, she did walk away and he knows what happened next, and he knows he is culpable for the duty of care;
plus, he might be very close to the person involved with what happened next, and perhaps a ton of money is riding on that person not getting caught.
Again, whomever gave/sold her the drugs is in Trouble with a capital T no matter what. After all the pain the Spieres' went through, they don't seem like they are up for making any kind of deal at this point, and I believe there is a quote somewhere from them on this subject. And it has been posted here.

 

[AbbeyR]

The "mystery man" has long ago been identified as Corey Rossman. LE confirmed the encounter described happened and that they have it on video, just not at the time Gatto claimed (3:38).

Where is the info about JW working in Michigan with JR (Or 'very close to'? the post isn't clear. What is the connection?) I don't understand the reasoning for the convoluted and cryptic posts -- Either it's rumor or a fact. If it's a fact, provide a link, please.

 

[holly18]

Snipped by me.

No it doesn't make more sense to me. In my scenario she left without their knowledge. They don't know where she is or who she might run into, like BPD. Then she explains the events of the night and they are in deep dodo. In the last line of my post I state they make the call to the mystery man. So if that were the case wouldn't the mystery man let them know he found her. Now they know where she is and they can make up any story they want to. Like she was here but she left on her own. And they don't have to worry who she might run into.

But both scenarios you mention end with Lauren on the street. She either left on her own without MB or JR watching, or she left after JR's test. The end result is the same, she's outside alone and could have run into BPD or anyone else.
I don't understand what they have to gain by making up an entire song and dance about MB taking her to JR's and her leaving from there if she did in fact leave on her own without their knowledge.

Am I missing something here? How would them lying after the fact about how she left change who she might run into once she left?

Edit: Wait, are you suggesting that Lauren left and they called the mystery man to go find her? If thats what you're saying I apologize for being slow to catch on! My brain appears to be on vacation

 

[doubtingthomas]

The "mystery man" has long ago been identified as Corey Rossman. LE confirmed the encounter described happened and that they have it on video, just not at the time Gatto claimed (3:38).

Where is the info about JW working in Michigan with JR (Or 'very close to'? the post isn't clear. What is the connection?) I don't understand the reasoning for the convoluted and cryptic posts -- Either it's rumor or a fact. If it's a fact, provide a link, please.

Where is your link that proves this? The only encounter I have found that LE confirmed was CR with LS on video in the ally by the gravel lot at 2:51.

 

[doubtingthomas]

But both scenarios you mention end with Lauren on the street. She either left on her own without MB or JR watching, or she left after JR's test. The end result is the same, she's outside alone and could have run into BPD or anyone else.
I don't understand what they have to gain by making up an entire song and dance about MB taking her to JR's and her leaving from there if she did in fact leave on her own without their knowledge.

Am I missing something here? How would them lying after the fact about how she left change who she might run into once she left?

Edit: Wait, are you suggesting that Lauren left and they called the mystery man to go find her? If thats what you're saying I apologize for being slow to catch on! My brain appears to be on vacation

Yes. My point was it would be better for them to say she left knowing she would not encounter anyone else than to know she left and didn't know where she was or who she might nun into.

 

[AbbeyR]

Where is your link that proves this? The only encounter I have found that LE confirmed was CR with LS on video in the ally by the gravel lot at 2:51.

Here is one of the many posts about this with a quote from LE from the press conference.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9903792&postcount=110"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #31[/ame]



Do you have a link about JW working with JR?

 

[doubtingthomas]

Here is one of the many posts about this with a quote from LE from the press conference.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #31



Do you have a link about JW working with JR?

Your post doesn't say it was CR only that LE knew who the person was. My point is that "mystery man" and LS could have been on college out of site of the cameras(not at the corner of 10th & College) and the bar manager could be right seeing them at 3:38. Where is the post that says "mystery man" is CR?

 

[AbbeyR]

Your post doesn't say it was CR only that LE knew who the person was. My point is that "mystery man" and LS could have been on college out of site of the cameras(not at the corner of 10th & College) and the bar manager could be right seeing them at 3:38. Where is the post that says "mystery man" is CR?

It has been posted a million times. It's in the report from the private investigators, and described in the Lohud Video. And, if you search Gatto's posts here, he confirms that the witness and the encounter he described is the same witness the PIs are talking about in the video -- which is obvious, since both are describing the exact same encounter, of Lauren being carried over the shoulder of a man in the exact same location.

Once again, do you have a link about your claims that JW is working in Michigan with some connection to JR?

 

[holly18]

Yes. My point was it would be better for them to say she left knowing she would not encounter anyone else than to know she left and didn't know where she was or who she might nun into.

I'm sorry, I'm still not understanding what you're saying. Do you mean that Lauren left, and rather than let her run into BPD they called a mystery man to kill her? How quickly could anyone have reacted to a phone call? Even if MB noticed Lauren was missing almost immediately after she left, he or JR would still have to call the mystery man, and the mystery man would still have to hunt her down to find her. The walk home wasn't a long one, if Lauren was able to leave MB's quickly enough for him not to notice, she would have been able to get to smallwood relatively quickly.

IMO, from what we've heard about the surveillance tapes, Lauren wouldn't have been in any shape to leave anywhere quickly. Even if MB put CR to bed, this was a college roommate putting another college roommate to bed. Its not like MB tucked CR in for the night and read him a bedtime story. He would have walked him into the bedroom, tossed him into bed and left. Lauren doesn't sound like she would have been able to run from 5N in the shape that she was in.

Not to mention, JR and CR are still under suspicion not only for giving Lauren drinks and or drugs, but for murdering her and hiding her body. Its not like they've been able to escape suspicion.

Lauren was (and against all evidence, I hope to god still is) a living, breathing human being. JR and or CR and or MB would have been beyond stupid to think that if Lauren disappeared all evidence of them giving her drinks and or drugs would disappear with her. Lauren is still missing, JR and CR are still facing civil and potentially criminal charges for their actions.

I still don't really understand your point about this. I might just be missing or not understanding something that you're saying, not to mention the fact that if JR/CR/MB arranged to have some random man hunt Lauren down and dispose of her, they're just as guilty as if they'd done it themselves.