IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #32

[deca]

Hey, does cell phone records just mean the phone number called and duration or text and what # it was from? Or do they have pings? Do they have the actual text messages?

I know on some other case, they could see that messages had been sent but did not know what they actually said.

 

[sammi89]

Thanks bx2! I also wonder who AF is?!! Anyone have any ideas?

I don't want to put down a full name but for anyone else who may have been creepin on facebook lol... I'm wondering if it is an AF that went to UM and now lives in NYC? He is friends with DB & JR - maybe someone who rode down with DB? That is my guess (for now).

TOTAL SPECULATION, which is why I am NOT putting a name. He is relatively easy to find from either DB's or JR's page.

 

[sammi89]

Hey, does cell phone records just mean the phone number called and duration or text and what # it was from? Or do they have pings? Do they have the actual text messages?

I know on some other case, they could see that messages had been sent but did not know what they actually said.

https://www.aclu.org/cell-phone-loc...ponse-cell-phone-company-data-retention-chart
I posted this chart before, but it shows which providers retain what and for how long.

It depends on what provider they have. LE might have gotten them earlier though so they might be another avenue for the Spierers to try if the providers don't have them anymore. I don't know how easy that will be for them without a court order though. Regardless, I don't think it looks good in terms of anyone having the text content.

 

[sammi89]

Also interesting - LS' sister appears to be friends with JW and a person I believe is his brother on fb still. Maybe she is just keeping an eye on him or maybe his mom has apologized privately and/or doesn't represent how JW feels? IDK, I thought it was interesting/weird though. She is not friends with any other POIs, which really isn't surprising, except for maybe JR since some reports have their grandparents tied together/some kind of childhood friendship with LS.

Okay I'm done creeping on facebook lol. It sounds like others have kept better track of facebook activities anyway.

 

[akh]

or, they could be looking for times when keys were used to open security doors, and whose keys. Hallway video, parking garage video, trash disposal video, even maintenance and security logs. Parties letting out and people going to their cars, people returning from parties going upstairs.

I suspect they are looking for 'anything' and not exactly something in particular. I'm just guessing of course though. So IOW there's not necessarily anything to be gleaned from the request as far as any suspicions.

 

[AbbeyR]

https://www.aclu.org/cell-phone-loc...ponse-cell-phone-company-data-retention-chart
I posted this chart before, but it shows which providers retain what and for how long.

It depends on what provider they have. LE might have gotten them earlier though so they might be another avenue for the Spierers to try if the providers don't have them anymore. I don't know how easy that will be for them without a court order though. Regardless, I don't think it looks good in terms of anyone having the text content.

Thanks for that info.

BBM: LE searched Corey Rossman's car, credit card records and phone records within days of Lauren going missing. I don't think this info was reported about the other POI, but I'm guessing they could obtain phone records for them as well, unless they have some specific evidence that allowed them to get a search warrant for Corey, but not the others...?

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/06...rer-missing-college-student-from-westchester/

 

[Ixchel13]

Also interesting - LS' sister appears to be friends with JW and a person I believe is his brother on fb still. Maybe she is just keeping an eye on him or maybe his mom has apologized privately and/or doesn't represent how JW feels? IDK, I thought it was interesting/weird though. She is not friends with any other POIs, which really isn't surprising, except for maybe JR since some reports have their grandparents tied together/some kind of childhood friendship with LS.

Okay I'm done creeping on facebook lol. It sounds like others have kept better track of facebook activities anyway.

Not sure if Rebecca is supposed to be sleuthed.....

 

[Ixchel13]

I suspect they are looking for 'anything' and not exactly something in particular. I'm just guessing of course though. So IOW there's not necessarily anything to be gleaned from the request as far as any suspicions.

Well, it places the 3 apt buildings as entities in their own right in the timeline.. She went from A to B to C, IOW.

Actually, starting at SW, she went from A (SW) to B (JR) to C (CRs), then K (Kilroys) then back to A, then D (10th and C), then C then back to B.

So A,B, C,(K),A, D,C, B. So, they would want to track her movements to see if after leaving JR's, she went back to D, perhaps? Or did any of her "friends" leave any of these places after 3:30, and did they arrive or were seen out in front or in the parking garages of any of these places? And then putting that together with phone records should paint a picture if there's one to paint. of others' involvement that is, or any of the POIs going to any of these places.

 

[sammi89]

Thanks for that info.

BBM: LE searched Corey Rossman's car, credit card records and phone records within days of Lauren going missing. I don't think this info was reported about the other POI, but I'm guessing they could obtain phone records for them as well, unless they have some specific evidence that allowed them to get a search warrant for Corey, but not the others...?

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/06...rer-missing-college-student-from-westchester/

IIRC, I think ALL 4 POIs were initially labelled as cooperative by LE to a degree? I think that is what makes it sometimes very confusing. I'm guessing that at least some of the POIs lessened their cooperation the more it dawned on them that POI might actually mean "suspect."
Regarding JW, in an article about a week after she went missing: http://abcnews.go.com/US/lauren-spierer-search-boyfriend-person-interest/story?id=13809364

"We continue to speak with him. He's cooperative," said Bloomington Police Lt. Bill Parker at a press conference.

I think there's links out there about the others being cooperative too, at least in the beginning, but I can't find them right now.

As far as evidence for a search warrant goes, I think CR is obviously the easiest case just because he was seen by multiple people with LS and there's video evidence to back it up. MB and JR both admit to being two of the last people to see her though. I tend to agree that LE probably has more they don't want to admit publicly. IIRC, weren't all three places searched too: JW's, CR's, and JR's?

 

[sammi89]

Also, I have been trying to find this link for forever and finally found it! It's often pointed out that JW and JW's father made a big deal out of confronting CR & JR, but CR's attorney pointed the finger at JW, too.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...message-daughters-attacker.html#ixzz1P39LSrL3

Salzmann, who said his client is not involved in Spierer's disappearance revealed he thought 'there is a lot more to this' case.
'The answer in a good 90 per cent of the cases is someone that they are intimately involved with, he told Fox News.

Not to take away from the fact that crimes of passion are fairly common, but 90% is definitely an exaggeration. I also am not sure that his point is a great one for his client because CR was interested in LS too - would that not qualify him as well?
https://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-offenders
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

 

[Ixchel13]

Also, I have been trying to find this link for forever and finally found it! It's often pointed out that JW and JW's father made a big deal out of confronting CR & JR, but CR's attorney pointed the finger at JW, too.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...message-daughters-attacker.html#ixzz1P39LSrL3


Not to take away from the fact that crimes of passion are fairly common, but 90% is definitely an exaggeration. I also am not sure that his point is a great one for his client because CR was interested in LS too - would that not qualify him as well?
https://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-offenders
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

It's pointed out because they did make a big deal out of confronting them, and iirc, there are people on other websites who put together a timeline from when JW actually admitted to LE that Lauren was missing or that with his help, she was reported missing and then the time it took his dad to get here, and they were wondering if he had enough time to get to Bloomington from NY from that vantage point in time.
Did JW's father accuse them of harming Lauren or disposing her? I think he might have. And that, not Tony Gatto, was the beginning of out and out suspicion being cast on them, LE has always been and still is non-committal
on who the actual most suspected POIs are.
Some people, me one of them, think he was `jumping the gun to accuse someone else because like Salzmann said, someone who is intimate is always numero uno at first. And before someone accuses me of accusing the dad of conspiracy, again, he placed himself in the arena when he confronted someone who like his son, is a POI. So he jumped in the doo-doo with both feet and swinging as well. So, with that in mind, I'm speculating that JW could have called him before he reported Lauren missing. If so, that implies that
JW knew she was missing before he admitted knowing, which would make him look bad. Perhaps LE has done the math, and in fact does have the phone records the Spierer's are only now suing for, and this call has already been noted=POI status. MOO IMO JMO OPINION SPECULATION THEORY.

.

 

[AbbeyR]

IIRC, I think ALL 4 POIs were initially labelled as cooperative by LE to a degree? I think that is what makes it sometimes very confusing. I'm guessing that at least some of the POIs lessened their cooperation the more it dawned on them that POI might actually mean "suspect."
Regarding JW, in an article about a week after she went missing: http://abcnews.go.com/US/lauren-spierer-search-boyfriend-person-interest/story?id=13809364

I think there's links out there about the others being cooperative too, at least in the beginning, but I can't find them right now.

As far as evidence for a search warrant goes, I think CR is obviously the easiest case just because he was seen by multiple people with LS and there's video evidence to back it up. MB and JR both admit to being two of the last people to see her though. I tend to agree that LE probably has more they don't want to admit publicly. IIRC, weren't all three places searched too: JW's, CR's, and JR's?

Yes - The very first statements from LE indicated that there was some level of cooperation. For ex., in the press conference on June 7, they said they had talked to people who were with her on thursday night/ friday morning and mentioned searching apartments and cars (not specific about whose). It's not clear how voluntary that cooperation was, at least for any searches, since I would assume LE would be certain to get warrants to make sure there would not be problems later on, in case of a trial. The search that was reported by media (where CR, JR and JW's places were searched with dogs) didn't happen until almost a month later though - I want to say June 30th? I've never understood why it took place so late.

By that point, though, LE and the Spierers were clear that they were not getting full cooperation from the POI. IIRC, they had left town, refused to take LE polygraphs and the guys at 5 N wouldn't talk to the Spierers. At the press conference on June 24, the Spierers were pleading for help and information and Capt. Qualters made that statement about the 'perplexing' behavior of Lauren's friends. He also made a statement (not quoted in this article) about not being able to compel people to come in and speak with LE, especially if they are out of state (JR had left Bloomington as early as a few days after Lauren's disappearance, and soon after, JW, CR and MB - this info is in that article I posted upthread about CR's drug charges).

At today's news conference, Capt. Joe Qualters said the words "perplexing," "curious" and "disturbing" might be the adjectives chosen to describe Spierer's friends' behavior. "All in all, I think I'd probably characterize it as unfortunate," Qualters said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/lauren-spi...friends-search/story?id=13923810#.T8ast1KD840

[The links about the early searches and press conferences can be found in the media thread]

 

[Ixchel13]

Yes - The very first statements from LE indicated that there was some level of cooperation. For ex., in the press conference on June 7, they said they had talked to people who were with her on thursday night/ friday morning and mentioned searching apartments and cars (not specific about whose). It's not clear how voluntary that cooperation was, at least for any searches, since I would assume LE would be certain to get warrants to make sure there would not be problems later on, in case of a trial. The search that was reported by media (where CR, JR and JW's places were searched with dogs) didn't happen until almost a month later though - I want to say June 30th? I've never understood why it took place so late.

By that point, though, LE and the Spierers were clear that they were not getting full cooperation from the POI. IIRC, they had left town, refused to take LE polygraphs and the guys at 5 N wouldn't talk to the Spierers. At the press conference on June 24, the Spierers were pleading for help and information and Capt. Qualters made that statement about the 'perplexing' behavior of Lauren's friends. He also made a statement (not quoted in this article) about not being able to compel people to come in and speak with LE, especially if they are out of state (JR had left Bloomington as early as a few days after Lauren's disappearance, and soon after, JW, CR and MB - this info is in that article I posted upthread about CR's drug charges).



http://abcnews.go.com/US/lauren-spi...friends-search/story?id=13923810#.T8ast1KD840

[The links about the early searches and press conferences can be found in the media thread]

apropos, ZC left the country for S. America I believe within a few weeks

 

[AbbeyR]

It's pointed out because they did make a big deal out of confronting them, and iirc, there are people on other websites who put together a timeline from when JW actually admitted to LE that Lauren was missing or that with his help, she was reported missing and then the time it took his dad to get here, and they were wondering if he had enough time to get to Bloomington from NY from that vantage point in time.
Did JW's father accuse them of harming Lauren or disposing her? I think he might have. And that, not Tony Gatto, was the beginning of out and out suspicion being cast on them, LE has always been and still is non-committal
on who the actual most suspected POIs are.
Some people, me one of them, think he was `jumping the gun to accuse someone else because like Salzmann said, someone who is intimate is always numero uno at first. And before someone accuses me of accusing the dad of conspiracy, again, he placed himself in the arena when he confronted someone who like his son, is a POI. So he jumped in the doo-doo with both feet and swinging as well. So, with that in mind, I'm speculating that JW could have called him before he reported Lauren missing. If so, that implies that
JW knew she was missing before he admitted knowing, which would make him look bad. Perhaps LE has done the math, and in fact does have the phone records the Spierer's are only now suing for, and this call has already been noted=POI status. MOO IMO JMO OPINION SPECULATION THEORY.

When did JW's dad supposedly arrive?

Lauren was reported missing on Friday, June 3rd. It's been reported that JW's dad arrived in Bloomington sometime over the weekend. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...udents-disappearance-20110613,0,6774142.story. By then, the guys at 5 N had already been questioned by several people, including LE, people had already heard the story from JR (HT reported speaking to him on Friday) and there was plenty of speculation already.

 

[Mahouston69]

When did JW's dad supposedly arrive?

Lauren was reported missing on Friday, June 3rd. It's been reported that JW's dad arrived in Bloomington sometime over the weekend. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...udents-disappearance-20110613,0,6774142.story. By then, the guys at 5 N had already been questioned by several people, including LE, people had already heard the story from JR (HT reported speaking to him on Friday) and there was plenty of speculation already.

Alan Wolff joined his son in Bloomington shortly after the disappearance. He said he had his son take him to Rossman's apartment.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/02/missing-student-boyfriend-family-fume/2382909/

Still looking for a link to see if it was confirmed on Friday/Saturday that he arrived.

 

[AbbeyR]

Alan Wolff joined his son in Bloomington shortly after the disappearance. He said he had his son take him to Rossman's apartment.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/02/missing-student-boyfriend-family-fume/2382909/

Still looking for a link to see if it was confirmed on Friday/Saturday that he arrived.

Yeah, AW talks about that confrontation and 'seeing fear in Corey's eyes' (or something along those lines) in that horrible blame-the-victimy article that came out on the 2 year anniversary of Lauren's disappearance. But that did not happen the day Lauren went missing. The only reports I could find and the snippets quoted here say that AW arrived that weekend (so Sat? Sun?), as did Lauren's parents (CS and RS arrived Sat. June 4).

 

[Ixchel13]

Yeah, AW talks about that confrontation and 'seeing fear in Corey's eyes' (or something along those lines) in that horrible blame-the-victimy article that came out on the 2 year anniversary of Lauren's disappearance. But that did not happen the day Lauren went missing. The only reports I could find and the snippets quoted here say that AW arrived that weekend (so Sat? Sun?), as did Lauren's parents (CS and RS arrived Sat. June 4).

He reported her missing in the afternoon on Friday and dad was there first thing on Saturday, iirc. Close enough in time for people to start calculating, iirc.

 

[AbbeyR]

there are people on other websites who put together a timeline from when JW actually admitted to LE that Lauren was missing or that with his help, she was reported missing and then the time it took his dad to get here, and they were wondering if he had enough time to get to Bloomington from NY from that vantage point in time.

He reported her missing in the afternoon on Friday and dad was there first thing on Saturday, iirc. Close enough in time for people to start calculating, iirc.

So even if it's true that he arrived Sat. morning (which there is no source for) I still don't understand how that leads to suspicion that JW knew she was missing earlier than the time frame that he claimed.

The 'calculating' isn't very complicated, is it? They started looking for her on Friday when they realized she didn't get home, and she was reported missing around 4:30 pm. (http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/features/story.aspx?ID=1712477) It's only a 2.5 hour flight from NY to Indiana, and there are numerous flights a day... Obviously one could get a flight for Sat., since the Spierers arrived then.

I am not a fan of the way the Wolffs have responded in public to the Spierers and think their statements about Lauren and her parents were misleading and cruel. But I'm not following your logic about how AW's arrival somehow points to JW knowing Lauren was missing earlier, based on the timeline we have.

 

[imkeylime]

... I am not a fan of the way the Wolffs have responded in public to the Spierers and think their statements about Lauren and her parents were misleading and cruel. But I'm not following your logic about how AW's arrival somehow points to JW knowing Lauren was missing earlier, based on the timeline we have.

Snipped by me. I didn't think much about JW until his parents starting making statements. That said, I think they're probably controlling "helicopter type" parents who would get involved whether asked to or not. I have thought that perhaps they were concerned due to things we don't know about, such as relationship issues. But that doesn't mean JW was involved that night, either, unless his radar was already on re: CR.

From what I've read, there wasn't enough motivation for a crime of passion. She'd just met CR and was planning on returning to NY with JW. And it's not like JW would have caught them in a compromising position. They were partying, which a lot of girls with boyfriends do with guys who are friends nowadays. JMO.

 

[sammi89]

Snipped by me. I didn't think much about JW until his parents starting making statements. That said, I think they're probably controlling "helicopter type" parents who would get involved whether asked to or not. I have thought that perhaps they were concerned due to things we don't know about, such as relationship issues. But that doesn't mean JW was involved that night, either, unless his radar was already on re: CR.

From what I've read, there wasn't enough motivation for a crime of passion. She'd just met CR and was planning on returning to NY with JW. And it's not like JW would have caught them in a compromising position. They were partying, which a lot of girls with boyfriends do with guys who are friends nowadays. JMO.

I agree, and would just add that JW's quick assumption may have been fueled by his knowledge that LS had a heart condition. It seems like that piece of knowledge may have convinced her friends, like HT, that the situation could be serious too.

http://archive.lohud.com/article/20...tion-compounds-concerns-about-cocaine-alcohol

But how much she revealed about having Long QT syndrome was unknown. Her roommate, Hadar Tamir, said Tuesday that she was unaware of the heart condition until Jesse Wolff, Spierer's boyfriend, brought it to her attention after Spierer went missing.