IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #33
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The way some people (TG, Mrs. G-S, Mr. G-S, various people on PT) became deeply interested and then suddenly stopped with no explanation has seemed strange to me. Also the vehemence and cruelty of some of the anti-LS comments on PT seem very strange.
If and when this case is ever resolved, an analysis of the role of social media in this case might make an interesting research topic for someone at IU in criminal justice, communications, journalism, telecommunications, etc. What effect does social media have in a case like this? Does it hinder or help the LE investigation?
I think initial police reports (daily log record) are public record. They usually are not hard to obtain. In some cases, they may be redacted. All you have to do is fill out this form (see below) and send it to BPD along with a self-addressed, stamped envelope.
https://bloomington.in.gov/media/media/application/pdf/17805.pdf
I wonder if one could also request all statements that BPD has already made to MSM (H-T, IDS, etc.)? That might help resolve any discrepancies due to sloppy reporting.
Does anyone know if Kilroy's Sports was requiring two IDs at that time?
I wonder if it is possible to obtain the records of the case against Kilroy's for letting her in with a fake ID?
I'm not sure about whether Kilroy's required 2 pieces of ID, but the charges suggest to me that she was using someone else's ID not ID with her own name/ photo. If that's the case, it's unlikely she was showing her student ID too.
http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-exci...-case-20110915,0,6266152.column#ixzz325Cy9732
http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-exci...-case-20110915,0,6266152.column#ixzz325Cy9732
Ixchel13
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Well, when the flamboyant blogger got arrested for blaming LE and blogged from jail or seemed to have blogged from jail, it might have been a mental ward; then you had Mrs. G-S, who was saying she was getting threats (was that true? who knows?) then you had the despicable GR who was also claiming a world-wide conspiracy and at the same time calling Lauren all kinds of names and interviewing people in front of Kilroys, which {JMO} caused Kilroys to close down for the summer for "remodelling" after they had just finished an elaborate remodelling (the beach). and Tony Gatto of course, on the scene and posting blogs like a drunken sailor, IOW, unchecked info.
Then we had PT. No other social media site is more responsible for spreading misinfo. We know that friends and roommates of POIs were posting there, even JW's bro. These are the ones who admitted who they were, so you have to imagine there were more. On here, you had a missing person who could not defend herself being besmirched by the worst kind of people. I feel like I'm super-jaded, but their remarks were so callous, I think that's why I'm here today, still wanting justice for Lauren.
Several people, including myself, implored the mods to stop the cruelty, but they wouldn't. The small circle of people who stuck up for Lauren 5-7 people,
PM'd each other about how we wanted so much to leave the board but couldn't
bear to, and there were a few among us (not me) that thought the perp might be posting and wanted to keep it going for slip up purposes.
Just couldn't understand why the mods let it go on, I mean, the typical PT-er is the clever idiot or complete stoner type, they get nasty with each other, often replying with KYS (kill yourself) over a stupid thing like song lyrics, but nothing on there had, or has since, matched the vitriol for Lauren.
Yes, PT definitely was the nasty rumor originator #1. Sifting through all of the hate there, however, made one deduct that the hate had an agenda. not very many people knew it was even going on (incl me), until someone came on Lauren's Missing fb page and told us all to go over and read the threads on PT, but not until there were 1500 posts. So everything, the hate and misinfo, was in place before they alerted Lauren's allies it was there.
p.s. weirdly enough, I found out about WS because one of the airheads on PT posted something like, "hey everyone, there's this group of people who think they are solving crime online, what
a bunch of ******s, lulz" and people started chiming in with ridicule, so I came over immediately, knowing any place they were making fun of was where I wanted to be. IOW, these nasty PTers were over here lurking and then going back over and posting.
Just to sum it up, I was on Lauren's FB, MMOB, and was told to go to PT, when I got there and read enough misinfo, I was told to go here. was I manipulated by someone using MSM?
I had forgotten about the people you mentioned. Except for the DB tweet, I do not recall any useful information coming from them.
bessie
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The initial incident report won't provide much more than what we already know, imo. As for the LE statements, you can listen to 15 press briefings on the audio files at this link.
http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=81917
Ixchel13
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I think the guy is saying that the physical description (height, weight, eye color, etc) did not match, but he did not say the picture did not match. The charges are saying, JMO, that Kilroy's should have noticed that, for example, a 90- pound woman in front of them did not weigh, for example, (because no one knows but LE now what the poundage said on ID,) 130 pounds. Or maybe the ID said she was 5'2 or something, when she was 4'11"? He definitely didn't say the picture wasn't the same.
uote:
"She did have an ID and the physical description on that ID was inconsistent with her," explained State Excise Police public information officer Travis Thickstun. "We believe that any reasonable person - based on the physical description on the ID that was used to get into the bar - would've recognized that it was inaccurate and would not have allowed her into the bar."
http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-excis...#ixzz325Cy9732
they could have just said, "the picture didn't match and that should have been immediately
noticed"
I think they are saying, "any reasonable person could have noticed she wasn't ____lbs
and _____ft tall."
I totally agree that it could have been someone else's info, but with Lauren's picture, though.
that's JMO and I could be wrong.
.
Anyway, it was a fake ID, that is not being disputed, or how the fake ID was
configured really doesn't matter does it?
Ixchel13
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also, in the Alexis Murphy case, posters had to pay for a copy of the report, iirc.
I fully understand that here are currently several plausible theories about what happened to LS. Several current theories do not involve her walking from JR's apt to the corner of 11th & College. Some theories, for example, have her behind 5N and more in the middle and west in that square block.
However, if JR is telling the truth about the way she left his apt and the time she left for the last time, he is certainly being truthful about being able to see Lauren only "almost" to the corner. This is a detail, but he is remembering that detail accurately (and honestly?).
There was/is a big old shade tree in the north east side of the front yard of the corner blue house. On June 3, 2011 that big old tree had very large, low hanging limbs, very leafy limbs obscuring the view from west to east along the 11th Street sidewalk. Best I recall there was also shrubbery along the house side of the sidewalk. Sometime shortly after Lauren's disappearance, either the city or the owner of the blue house removed the shrubbery and severely cut back the low hanging, leafy limbs.
Before that corner was "cleaned up", there is no way the corner could be seen from JR's balcony or even from down on the sidewalk. I personally verified this fact the week after Lauren's disappearance because I had understood that JR was saying that he watched her turn that corner to the south on College. I verified he could not have done that, maybe not even in the daytime and certainly not at night.
Then, just within the last 6 months, I noticed that through his attorney, JR was saying he saw her "almost" to the corner. JR's accuracy about this detail impressed me, although I realize it doesn't mean the rest of his version is true.
One thing I discovered in early June of 2011 before it was cleaned up: that corner was scary, dark and foreboding with several hiding places, even in daytime but especially as darkness came on. That corner is totally different today. On that early morning, Lauren could have crossed College and walked toward Walnut Street or even walked North on the east side of College toward the RR overpass. JR would never have known, even if he was still watching.
However, if JR is telling the truth about the way she left his apt and the time she left for the last time, he is certainly being truthful about being able to see Lauren only "almost" to the corner. This is a detail, but he is remembering that detail accurately (and honestly?).
There was/is a big old shade tree in the north east side of the front yard of the corner blue house. On June 3, 2011 that big old tree had very large, low hanging limbs, very leafy limbs obscuring the view from west to east along the 11th Street sidewalk. Best I recall there was also shrubbery along the house side of the sidewalk. Sometime shortly after Lauren's disappearance, either the city or the owner of the blue house removed the shrubbery and severely cut back the low hanging, leafy limbs.
Before that corner was "cleaned up", there is no way the corner could be seen from JR's balcony or even from down on the sidewalk. I personally verified this fact the week after Lauren's disappearance because I had understood that JR was saying that he watched her turn that corner to the south on College. I verified he could not have done that, maybe not even in the daytime and certainly not at night.
Then, just within the last 6 months, I noticed that through his attorney, JR was saying he saw her "almost" to the corner. JR's accuracy about this detail impressed me, although I realize it doesn't mean the rest of his version is true.
One thing I discovered in early June of 2011 before it was cleaned up: that corner was scary, dark and foreboding with several hiding places, even in daytime but especially as darkness came on. That corner is totally different today. On that early morning, Lauren could have crossed College and walked toward Walnut Street or even walked North on the east side of College toward the RR overpass. JR would never have known, even if he was still watching.
A. Watson, do you know if the sidewalk along College, where she would have turned south to get to Smallwood, was torn up at the time she disappeared? I saw the corner about a month later, and it would have been hard to walk on it barefoot at that time. I don't know whether the sidewalk was torn up before or after she disappeared. It was repaved soon after I saw it.
doubtingthomas
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Ros, if you go to the beginning of this thread and click on pictures and maps posted by Btown from 6-10 thru 6-14. There is a picture walking on 11th going east towards College and on College facing south with 11th behind him. You can see the condition of the sidewalks there. IMO it would have been rough walking barefooted.
I don't believe walking barefoot would have been next to impossible. I don't recall the sidewalk being torn-up, just in bad repair, the concrete being somewhat uneven. I don't recall that much loose gravel, but at 4:20 AM it wouldn't have been very safe either, and would have slowed her down, made her much less mobile in the darker spots. Out behind 5N in the vacant lot and in the alleys (I recall 3 "alleys" - 2 east/west and 1 north/south - in that square block in June 2011) she maybe couldn't walk (gravel & glass) & that was partly why CR carried her, I suppose. I think that sidewalk at 11th & College was torn up after she disappeared, Ros, but I wish I could remember for sure. Nevertheless, that walk barefoot at 4:20 AM would not have been easy for anyone.
Thanks, I had overlooked those photos. I can tell that the sidewalk was cracked at the point where it was later torn up and replaced. The presence of construction equipment and orange tape suggests that sidewalk repair was about to begin.
Ixchel13
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agreed, and also with doubting thomas too. The alley in question is also well paved, but often has broken glass and rocks in it. The gravel lot would be, at that time, impossible to traverse without shoes w/o tearing your feet to shreds or twisting your ankle. It was filled with large chuckholes, glass, trash, big and small jagged rocks, all kinds of detris and garbage.
I often had to go up Morton St to my car. when you get to the gravel lot area, it was scary, and as ridiculous as it sounds, had really bad vibes, so much so that I usually tried to move my car when it was still relatively early and put in front of 10th and C.
So Watson, you are saying that JR really can't confirm she turned that corner and went south? also, noticed the other day there is another tree that has started to grow back, from heavy trimming, and it's before the corner shade tree, also blocking that same view east from his balcony.
One reason I think it might have happened on the west side is, you can enter the 10th and College Villages through two courtyards on the east side, from the alley in question, and exit through the west gates in those courtyards
and be on Morton St., the west side of the complex. no cameras at all on that side all the way up to 5N, cameras now. If it happened around there, had to be the west side, IMO.
However, if she went straight east instead of turning south, that's a whole
different :worms:
Listening to the audio tapes Bessie posted above^ is very helpful. Afew things I've learned, and I can't post exactly which tape, it was in the first 7 and Qualters mentions in almost each one, that SW requires search warrants every time LE wants to search, about anything, as a matter of course. I would imagine that this is a "blanket" rule applying to residents as well, not sure.
He mentions "many" search warrants being issued, so I'm imagining that each of the 10 POI
got one. He mentions that Lauren left her keys behind at SW, the keys would be to her door,
the key card found outside would be to the building I assume. He doesn't bring up the ID.
We know that a roommate found it and turned it in, but where did this roommate find it?
It seems likely that the ID and keys were dropped by Lauren, found by roommate, in this case,
roommate may have been present at altercation. And likely to have called JW? Only one roommate was both present at SW that evening, and good friends with JW--HT.
Any other way it was found could range from someone else present picked it up and gave it to her, meaning she knew people well enough at the altercation for them to do this, all the way to someone being present at Lauren's demise either giving it to her, or hiding it in her room, and the roommate found it. She found it somewhere.
If she found it, turned it in, etc, LE should find at least Lauren's fingerprints on it, the bouncer's if he touched it while checking it, maybe CR's, IOW, there should be at least
2 or 3 different fingerprints on it besides the roommates. But if it only has the roommate's, this would be very suspicious. They didn't search her room til June 13th. Not saying the roommate
may have wiped it clean. Not at all. Or that it was wiped clean. speculating.
Snipped by me. Thanks, I Jules, for more local insight. I really appreciate that. I've wondered about the RR overpass/tracks before. Could one easily reach the tracks from the overpass, and are boxcars or other hiding places ever left there?
I still wonder if LS was stashed somewhere and later moved to a final destination. That happened with a young woman in Michigan at near the same time. She was murdered in one place, then placed underneath a public works sand pile.
I found it crazy unbelievable at the time, but it happened: http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/10/deputys_son_guilty_of_killing.html.
You're welcome, imkeylime. This will give me a chance to apologize to Bessie and the good people who have been dedicated to keeping this thread alive, because we all want this mystery solved and for Lauren to be recovered.
I do not know how to attach something to one of my posts. I am just not good getting around in the computer. I did read a lot of this thread to bring myself up to speed since I had not been to Web Sleuths for way too long, say maybe the fall of 2011. I read that Bessie did not want us referring to something without a link and that's exactly what I did when I said that JR said thru his attorney 'bout 6 months ago that he saw Lauren "almost" to the corner of 11th & College. Please forgive me. I may be wrong about JR's statement and what he said through his attorney vs what I thought he had originally said back in 2011. I cannot provide links; actually I need two links.
I just hope I did not disrupt the flow of this thread too much. Several of you were brainstorming and coming up with very useful theories, very thought provoking, especially after almost 3 years! That's what got me interested in returning to WebSleuths. The people here are serious about what they are doing, intelligent and dedicated. I commend you all. I must get someone to help me with my skills or take a class so I can keep up with the community here. We do not need someone with 5th grade skills when the community is college level!!
And by the way, imkeylime, I can't answer your question about the railroad bed and the overpass access. I haven't been in that area, although I listened to a few of the press conferences and the police insisted the searches were very thorough.
I do not know how to attach something to one of my posts. I am just not good getting around in the computer. I did read a lot of this thread to bring myself up to speed since I had not been to Web Sleuths for way too long, say maybe the fall of 2011. I read that Bessie did not want us referring to something without a link and that's exactly what I did when I said that JR said thru his attorney 'bout 6 months ago that he saw Lauren "almost" to the corner of 11th & College. Please forgive me. I may be wrong about JR's statement and what he said through his attorney vs what I thought he had originally said back in 2011. I cannot provide links; actually I need two links.
I just hope I did not disrupt the flow of this thread too much. Several of you were brainstorming and coming up with very useful theories, very thought provoking, especially after almost 3 years! That's what got me interested in returning to WebSleuths. The people here are serious about what they are doing, intelligent and dedicated. I commend you all. I must get someone to help me with my skills or take a class so I can keep up with the community here. We do not need someone with 5th grade skills when the community is college level!!
And by the way, imkeylime, I can't answer your question about the railroad bed and the overpass access. I haven't been in that area, although I listened to a few of the press conferences and the police insisted the searches were very thorough.
Hmmm ... I think Bessie or someone more technically inclined than I could help you more, but: I just find my link and "copy" it (in the bar) and then "paste" it into my post. (I work on a Mac, though. ???) Please don't let technical issues keep you away; I'm sure someone will make this clearer! You're doing fine!
As for the flow of the thread ... I interrupt that all of the time, I believe. I remain committed to LS and finding her, but sometimes I just can't post for awhile and then get behind. I don't think it matters much to anyone. The important thing is wanting to be here!
Ixchel13
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perish the thought of you not staying here and posting! If you don't have a link, you can pose your thoughts as a question, a theory, or the all utilty
"IIRC" if I recall correctly. Just don't state your thoughts as a fact.
some people :blushing: have received a 48 hour time out for not posting links. Now if I want to state a fact, I do manage, I learned just for this site.
so, what are ya thinkin'?
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