IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #33

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I'm guessing some if not all knew something may potentially be going on since the previous week when she camped in the infield with friends including JR, DB, and CR but not JW. I agree with your concerns that JW is texting his Dad in the wee hours of the morning (NY time) to tell him Lauren is going to bed??? Ok. Then conveniently states he's going to bed (2:30am) right around the time of the altercation and witnesses that saw CR being inappropriate. All this and nobody contacts JW? He doesn't care and stays home in bed? Don't buy it, never have. I think he got in his car...went looking for her, waited outside and watched until she left, picked her up angry, and lost his head. I think he did THEN call his Dad in a panic and his parents know exactly how that night went down and their anger comes from what they perceive is their sons life in shambles or possibly ruined because SHE caused all of it with her drug use and going out without him. With no witnesses and no video, and no Lauren, we may never know.
 
Mahouston69 said:
I'm guessing some if not all knew something may potentially be going on since the previous week when she camped in the infield with friends including JR, DB, and CR but not JW. I agree with your concerns that JW is texting his Dad in the wee hours of the morning (NY time) to tell him Lauren is going to bed??? Ok. Then conveniently states he's going to bed (2:30am) right around the time of the altercation and witnesses that saw CR being inappropriate. All this and nobody contacts JW? He doesn't care and stays home in bed? Don't buy it, never have. I think he got in his car...went looking for her, waited outside and watched until she left, picked her up angry, and lost his head. I think he did THEN call his Dad in a panic and his parents know exactly how that night went down and their anger comes from what they perceive is their sons life in shambles or possibly ruined because SHE caused all of it with her drug use and going out without him. With no witnesses and no video, and no Lauren, we may never know.
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you just gave me huge goosebumps when I read that surmisal
 
Ixchel13 said:
...
I mean, who texts their DAD to tell him their gf is going to bed? ...
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Someone who just broke up with his girlfriend, that's who (hypothetically). I think a lot is explained if we theorize that JW and Lauren had just broken up, as recently as that night. It explains why JW is calling his Dad, why Lauren is lying to him, why he isn't going out looking for her, and why she seems determined that night to get extra messed up and hang out with a new guy.

I'm mean, "call me if you wake up, and we'll talk"? Sounds like breakup language to me.

Then she goes missing. JW, and his friends have to keep the breakup secret because it would put a giant spotlight on him as a suspect, whether he did it or not. So, I tend to think that JW is hiding the fact that she broke up with him that night, or some time very recent to that. However, for that very reason, I tend to also believe that he really was ignoring her activities that night, and that he went to bed, maybe after some solidary drinking, and commiserating with his dad.
 
It was reported he smoked marijuana with his roommate, (see link a few pages back to long article from PI interviews) and we know Lauren didn't go to bed. We don't know or can't confirm he went to bed and didn't go out around the time he said he was. His angry outbursts and threats of violence lead me to believe he didn't self soothe well. I don't think they broke up. I think she was just that way....and that is somewhat confirmed by JWs parents and her "friends" in their public statements. I think JW couldn't take it anymore, couldn't walk away and couldn't stand to see her with anyone else. I think the only person he knew that could help him, or trust was his Dad and explains the texts or calls in the wee hours of the morning. My adult grown sons wouldn't call me let alone text me that they broke up with their long time girlfriends and then just text they were just watching the game and their girlfriend went to bed. If they were in car or legal trouble, then absolutely they would, day or night. Also, if they broke up, wouldn't Lauren have mentioned it and why would anyone she told, keep it a secret for JW? I really think someone...out of everybody who would have known or been told ...would make mention of it. To LE, to the media, to a PI...
 
Madhouston,
That is basically the exact scenario I have talked about as well. I find it extremely plausible when you consider statistics as well as just something that simply makes sense. Everything then fits. Including JW being quick to the draw to declare her missing. The biggest question mark being whether she could actually walk out of 5N. If she could (and nobody here can honestly say they know she couldn't have), then this scenario deserves to be considered equally to the 5N scenario. But for some reason there seems to always be resistance to the idea that JW should be considered a high priority POI.
 
What's the hypothetical scenario here? JW sits in his car parked somewhere on College? He theoretically doesn't have his phone with him, and didn't drive past the cameras at 10th and Morton. Then as "luck" would have it, she actually emerges from 5N and walks by where he grabs her?
 
bx2 said:
What's the hypothetical scenario here? JW sits in his car parked somewhere on College? He theoretically doesn't have his phone with him, and didn't drive past the cameras at 10th and Morton. Then as "luck" would have it, she actually emerges from 5N and walks by where he grabs her?
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Why would he "grab" her? It's his girlfriend who is really messed up. She probably would have been thankful to see him. That doesn't mean he isn't angry with her and wanted to know what "she has done or been doing and with who". I don't think JR saw her walk away or around the corner I think that was his attempt to show some duty of "care". So, how impossible is it to believe he walked or pulled up to the curb and she assumed he was there to take care of her "like always" but he didn't?
 
bx2 said:
What's the hypothetical scenario here? JW sits in his car parked somewhere on College? He theoretically doesn't have his phone with him, and didn't drive past the cameras at 10th and Morton. Then as "luck" would have it, she actually emerges from 5N and walks by where he grabs her?
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Whatever happened, apparently happened off camera. Otherwise this case would not be where it is now. So, somebody has been 'lucky' if you want to look at it that way. So it's just as plausible it was JW that got lucky as any other of the POI's, or even a random stranger.... based on what we (the public) know. LE hasn't (apparently) acted on anybody's phone info, so again, how would that exclude anybody for the sake of discussion?

Somebody, somehow, was able to get her away from the area without detection. I don't see how that could not be JW just as easily as we think it could be 5N.
 
Mahouston69 said:
Why would he "grab" her? It's his girlfriend who is really messed up. She probably would have been thankful to see him. That doesn't mean he isn't angry with her and wanted to know what "she has done or been doing and with who". I don't think JR saw her walk away or around the corner I think that was his attempt to show some duty of "care". So, how impossible is it to believe he walked or pulled up to the curb and she assumed he was there to take care of her "like always" but he didn't?
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It's not impossible to believe, just would be great timing on his part and extremely lucky that he left his phone behind and didn't drive past the camera that would be one of his more likely to take routes.
 
bx2 said:
It's not impossible to believe, just would be great timing on his part and extremely lucky that he left his phone behind and didn't drive past the camera that would be one of his more likely to take routes.
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I don't think he was stupid and I don't think he would want to be seen "stalking" her or CR after he most likely heard about all the drama and went out to "catch" her in the act. By himself, it's doubtful he'd confront any of the guys there and wait to see if his girlfriend went home or stayed with one of them. If this scenario did occur I'm sure sympathy wasn't high on his list of emotions in the state of disarray she was in. If she had a black eye or bruising when he got to her that could also account for his attacking and threatening JR and CR thinking they did it..doesn't negate the possibility he took his anger at her and them out on her that early morning.
 
This case drives me absolutely batty. It's really easy to suspect a 5N POI given the scenario, but I just can't rule out JW. I'd love to take his name off the table. I keep shifting my gears between 5N, JW, and other. I don't read here consistently, but I'm always impressed by the posts and logical thinking. I can't imagine the frustration Lauren's family/friends are feeling.

If Lauren did, in fact, leave JR's, I still contend anything's possible.

I have strong feelings toward one or more of the 5N's guilt, but I can't get off the fence. I was gobsmacked when some returned to campus.
 
akh said:
Whatever happened, apparently happened off camera. Otherwise this case would not be where it is now. So, somebody has been 'lucky' if you want to look at it that way. So it's just as plausible it was JW that got lucky as any other of the POI's, or even a random stranger.... based on what we (the public) know. LE hasn't (apparently) acted on anybody's phone info, so again, how would that exclude anybody for the sake of discussion?

Somebody, somehow, was able to get her away from the area without detection. I don't see how that could not be JW just as easily as we think it could be 5N.
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Someone outside the regular scope of POI's, whether that be a random stranger or someone she knew that hasn't been connected, may have been lucky not to get caught, but they haven't been lucky in the sense that their scrutinized alibis and story hasn't added up, because they are out of the realm of considered possibilities to this point. The reason that 5N folks face more scrutiny than the bf is because they were already with her, so there's no need to come up with a story as to how and why they arrived. I have a hard time believing that there would be no movement in the case if someone's phone info contradicted their story, particularly if that info places them in her last known whereabouts area.

I should also say, I'm railing pretty hard against the possibility of JW coming to find her, but not necessarily against the possibility that she came to him, which wouldn't have the same string of coincidences attached to it that I'm arguing are so unlikely.
 
As I recall, there were rumors that JW's Facebook page implied that they had been on the outs. Comments, such as "back in ... relationship," that were on his wall might imply that their relationship was "rocky." AWG, who claimed to be JW's roommate on PT, said that he was unaware of any relationship problem. Of course we have no way of knowing if AWG, who defended JW in several ways, was really JW's roommate and, if so, really unbiased.

I hope that I am not overstepping any WS bounds; I just want to make the point that many people have positive or negative attitudes towards JW that may have been formed based on what they read in social media, that may or may not be correct.
 
akh said:
Madhouston,
That is basically the exact scenario I have talked about as well. I find it extremely plausible when you consider statistics as well as just something that simply makes sense. Everything then fits. Including JW being quick to the draw to declare her missing. The biggest question mark being whether she could actually walk out of 5N. If she could (and nobody here can honestly say they know she couldn't have), then this scenario deserves to be considered equally to the 5N scenario. But for some reason there seems to always be resistance to the idea that JW should be considered a high priority POI.
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2 ways that could happen, he could have picked her up and JR's lying, in that case MB and CR really don't know.
also, JR could have tried to get Lauren to be able to walk (sobriety test) just enough so she could walk right into
JW and right around that corner there's a walkway leading to the back parking lot. no cameras then.
everything could have been an accident and no one meant any harm. At the beginning, the Spierers said this.
But as time goes on and their suffering exacerbated to the extreme, by these people refusing to tell them
where their daughter is, it makes it harder to understand and forgive.
This simply haunts me. Whenever I'm near the scene, I always think of Lauren, no matter how many times I pass it.
 
bx2 said:
What's the hypothetical scenario here? JW sits in his car parked somewhere on College? He theoretically doesn't have his phone with him, and didn't drive past the cameras at 10th and Morton. Then as "luck" would have it, she actually emerges from 5N and walks by where he grabs her?
Click to expand...

something like that, yes, hypothetically
 
i know i'm in the minority but i firmly believe the solution involves as few of the key players as possible, simply because these kids aren't hardened criminals and one or more of them would have fessed up to something by now to get this off of their shoulders. for the rest of their lives they will carry this with them until she is found. i definitely think drugs and other illegal activities may have been going on that night, but i just don't see a situation in which three or four (or more) people know what happened to her and none of them talk. that rarely even happens in organized criminal activities like a bank robbery or gang murder. people talk even when the stakes are much higher than they are for these guys. just my 2 cents.
 
bx2 said:
...I have a hard time believing that there would be no movement in the case if someone's phone info contradicted their story, particularly if that info places them in her last known whereabouts area. ...
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I'm not an expert on cell phone communication, and I don't known the particulars of Bloomington's setup, but is seems to me that where JW's apartment was (if it was around where I think it was), was sufficiently close to her last known whereabouts that it likely would have meant communicating with the same cell phone tower, in either case, in which case tracking him by his phone would be unable to distinguish between his apartment and the likely area of her abduction or demise. But I could be wrong.
 
Do we know where JW was living at the time?

EDIT: Nevermind: I found it again. It looks like he was about seven or eight blocks away. So, yeah, he was close.
 
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