IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #34

[Ixchel13]

I know we researched and rehashed on here, but did we figure out when dad arrived in Bloom....was it early Sat am...and when did the 2 go to 5N to inquire re: LS? Thx

what I really meant to ask in my scattered post up there was, did AW go to 5N and confront CR about Lauren only, or was it also about what CR was saying about JW?

IIRC, we didn't hear about CR's amnesia until Salzmann, correct? Regardless, we didn't hear about CR's amnesia until after the Ws confronted CR.

If CR really couldn't remember everything, we might assume he has at least one shadowy memory or two. The rest was provided by
people who were witnesses throughout the evening. Maybe some of these people were not his friends, and told him things, accused him of things,
and in the process, gave him info.

CR then probably had access to some important clue very early on.
Possibly, in the telling him of all the things he says he can't remember doing, by talking to different witnesses who were spread throughout the 3 or 4 blocks, he has been given the most clues of anyone.

Because he claims amnesia, people could then feel free to fill in the blanks anyway they see fit , off camera that is.

But before his lawyer went public with the amnesia, he was getting his blanks filled in and responding to accusations, possibly running his mouth right away.

Did those accusations included JW? Of all the POIs, IMO CR is the least one to have been there at Lauren's demise. Did he set it in to motion? Yes. He had decided to
flagrantly go after the leader of the gang's girlfriend. (frat=gang)

Whether these people thought things out to their consequences is irrelevant when you consider the devastating outcome for everyone.

speculation all.

 

[Ixchel13]

Just had a thought.
As we know, there is video of Lauren and CR trying to get in ZCs, apt, and then heading up the alley at 2:52

Witness says she saw Lauren hit her head, and get carried up the street at a much later time..3:38.
This is not on video.

I wish we could just look at these two occurences as
not crammed into the same happening.

IMO, somehow Lauren got back down to 10th and College. 1.5 min. to walk there. Or she got as far
as the alley and those north steps where her keys were found.

IMO, this is where Lauren hit her head really hard
and became unconcious. The bartender witnessed this. It's her word against them. She might have
been unconcious before hitting her head, which explains the fear and coverup, bf/JR could have given her the drugs from their stash.

Drugs, jealousy, and money at stake makes the POIs a probability but as akh says, DM has not been ruled out.



We have been assuming that

 

[akh]

WBIW
US Court Of Appeals Upheld Decision To Throw Out Civil Suit In Lauren Spierer Case
(BLOOMINGTON) - The United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit has upheld the decision to throw out a civil lawsuit filed by Robert and Charlene Spierer in the hopes of uncovering information about their 20-year-old daughter's disappearance in downtown Bloomington.

wbiw.com

 

[Sarg]

Boo!! Where is the unlike button.

 

[imkeylime]

More on dismissal of civil suit:

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...upholds-decision-to-throw-out-spierer-lawsuit

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/appeals-court-affirms-decision-to-toss-out-lauren-spierer-lawsuit/

Grrrrrrr. The second link contains the following quote about CR: "Because he was with Lauren the majority of the evening and bought drinks for her, Rossman was nearest to assuming a duty to care for her," the ruling said. "But he also appears to have been intoxicated--so much so that it is questionable whether he could effectively take care of himself, still less another person." I wonder how CR's condition was ascertained. MB's description of him vomiting would be one indicator … maybe his behavior on videotape was another? CR isn't a small guy … so if he was that intoxicated, he either drank a lot that night or partook in something else, I'd think.

 

[Vidocq]

A few things from the most-recent decision's rundown of the events that night strike me as interesting: [Names changed to initials by me:]

"On June 2, 2011, JR, a student at Indiana University, threw a party at his apartment. Among his guests were fellow students Lauren Spierer, CR, and MB, who, by all appearances, were well-acquainted with each other. CR served alcoholic drinks at his party, and Lauren--scarcely five feet tall and one hundred pounds--was among those served. She was not alone. For his part, CR drank heavily, and eventually he and Lauren left the party and went to his apartment which was located in the same complex.

"No. 14-3171 3
CR's roommate, MB, had been at CR's party and returned to the apartment where he encountered the two. Despite the fact that Lauren was visibly intoxicated, CR encouraged her to join him at a bar named Kilroy's that was located a few blocks from the apartment. He informed MB that he wanted to have "three more drinks at the bar and then [he would] be feeling good." Approximately one hour after leaving JR's party, Lauren and CR went to Kilroy's--

[Comment by Vidocq: So Lauren and CR had left JR's party, and were at his place for an hour, before they went to Kilroy's? That's interesting. It's been said they stopped off there. But this is the first I'm hearing it was for an hour.]

"--where Lauren was observed stumbling and requiring CR's assistance to walk. Disregarding her precarious condition, CR bought Lauren several drinks; eventually she lost her shoes and mobile phone. They remained at Kilroy's until approximately 2:30 in the morning. After leaving Kilroy's, the pair initially headed to Lauren's apartment complex where they encountered other students outside the elevator on Lauren's floor. CR got into a physical altercation with one of those students who took issue with him for failing to assist the visibly intoxicated Lauren into her apartment. Instead of escorting Lauren from the elevator to her apartment--a distance less than a hundred yards--the pair set off for his apartment where CR was observed en route carrying Lauren slung across his back. At around 3:30 in the morning, MB (CR's roommate) returned to the apartment and was startled to find CR and Lauren there. At first, he suspected that they were burglars--

[Comment by Vidocq: I've heard this detail before, but not with the time stamp of 3:30. Interesting. But why does MB think they're burglars? I can only think it was because they didn't have the lights on in the apartment, yet they were making noise --if indeed this really happened at all.]

--because the apartment had been the site of previous crimes. Instead, he encountered Lauren, who appeared even more intoxicated than she had been earlier in the evening. The pleadings suggest that CR went to

"4 No. 14-3171
sleep at this point and that MB was left alone with Lauren. In light of her condition--she was slurring her speech, for example--MB tried to convince Lauren to sleep on the couch in the apartment. Lauren, however, wanted to go back to her apartment. For reasons that are not clear, instead of escorting Lauren back to her apartment, MB brought her to JR's apartment, which had been the site of the party earlier that evening. JR also grew concerned when he saw Lauren's condition. He attempted to contact several of her friends for the purpose of arranging a ride back to her apartment--

[Comment by Vidocq: A two-block ride. I'm surprised he didn't try to buy plane tickets. As always, the story starts failing the sniff test, as soon as MB supposedly takes Lauren to JR's.]

--but was unable to arrange transport. At this point, MB left his apartment.

[Comment by Vidocq: It seems like someone, MB or JR, has made a point of stating that MB witnessed JR attempt to arrange transport, but left right after that. Whatever that means.]

Shortly afterwards, at approximately 4:30 a.m., Rosenbaum allowed Lauren to leave his residence on her own and briefly observed her walking in the direction of her apartment. He was the last known person to see Lauren alive. A security camera located along Lauren's return route did not capture any images of her walking home."

[Comment by Vidocq: I've heard this before, but which security camera might this refer to?

Regarding timeline: I'd previous heard that MB called JR (supposedly to see if he was home, before taking Lauren over) at 3:30. But this rundown has MB not getting home until 3:30. This rundown also states that MB left Lauren with JR after he made his calls, which I believe is supposed to have happened at 4:15.]

 

[CoolJ]

A few things from the most-recent decision's rundown of the events that night strike me as interesting: [Names changed to initials by me:]

"On June 2, 2011, JR, a student at Indiana University, threw a party at his apartment. Among his guests were fellow students Lauren Spierer, CR, and MB, who, by all appearances, were well-acquainted with each other. CR served alcoholic drinks at his party, and Lauren--scarcely five feet tall and one hundred pounds--was among those served. She was not alone. For his part, CR drank heavily, and eventually he and Lauren left the party and went to his apartment which was located in the same complex.

"No. 14-3171 3
CR's roommate, MB, had been at CR's party and returned to the apartment where he encountered the two. Despite the fact that Lauren was visibly intoxicated, CR encouraged her to join him at a bar named Kilroy's that was located a few blocks from the apartment. He informed MB that he wanted to have "three more drinks at the bar and then [he would] be feeling good." Approximately one hour after leaving JR's party, Lauren and CR went to Kilroy's--

[Comment by Vidocq: So Lauren and CR had left JR's party, and were at his place for an hour, before they went to Kilroy's? That's interesting. It's been said they stopped off there. But this is the first I'm hearing it was for an hour.]

"--where Lauren was observed stumbling and requiring CR's assistance to walk. Disregarding her precarious condition, CR bought Lauren several drinks; eventually she lost her shoes and mobile phone. They remained at Kilroy's until approximately 2:30 in the morning. After leaving Kilroy's, the pair initially headed to Lauren's apartment complex where they encountered other students outside the elevator on Lauren's floor. CR got into a physical altercation with one of those students who took issue with him for failing to assist the visibly intoxicated Lauren into her apartment. Instead of escorting Lauren from the elevator to her apartment--a distance less than a hundred yards--the pair set off for his apartment where CR was observed en route carrying Lauren slung across his back. At around 3:30 in the morning, MB (CR's roommate) returned to the apartment and was startled to find CR and Lauren there. At first, he suspected that they were burglars--

[Comment by Vidocq: I've heard this detail before, but not with the time stamp of 3:30. Interesting. But why does MB think they're burglars? I can only think it was because they didn't have the lights on in the apartment, yet they were making noise --if indeed this really happened at all.]

--because the apartment had been the site of previous crimes. Instead, he encountered Lauren, who appeared even more intoxicated than she had been earlier in the evening. The pleadings suggest that CR went to

"4 No. 14-3171
sleep at this point and that MB was left alone with Lauren. In light of her condition--she was slurring her speech, for example--MB tried to convince Lauren to sleep on the couch in the apartment. Lauren, however, wanted to go back to her apartment. For reasons that are not clear, instead of escorting Lauren back to her apartment, MB brought her to JR's apartment, which had been the site of the party earlier that evening. JR also grew concerned when he saw Lauren's condition. He attempted to contact several of her friends for the purpose of arranging a ride back to her apartment--

[Comment by Vidocq: A two-block ride. I'm surprised he didn't try to buy plane tickets. As always, the story starts failing the sniff test, as soon as MB supposedly takes Lauren to JR's.]

--but was unable to arrange transport. At this point, MB left his apartment.

[Comment by Vidocq: It seems like someone, MB or JR, has made a point of stating that MB witnessed JR attempt to arrange transport, but left right after that. Whatever that means.]

Shortly afterwards, at approximately 4:30 a.m., Rosenbaum allowed Lauren to leave his residence on her own and briefly observed her walking in the direction of her apartment. He was the last known person to see Lauren alive. A security camera located along Lauren's return route did not capture any images of her walking home."

[Comment by Vidocq: I've heard this before, but which security camera might this refer to?

Regarding timeline: I'd previous heard that MB called JR (supposedly to see if he was home, before taking Lauren over) at 3:30. But this rundown has MB not getting home until 3:30. This rundown also states that MB left Lauren with JR after he made his calls, which I believe is supposed to have happened at 4:15.]

:goodpost:

BBM. For me, the story begins to fall apart shortly before that. When CR supposedly goes to sleep. It does not make sense to me that CR would go through the effort of carrying LS to his apartment just so that he could go to sleep. Also, it seems CR was in much better shape than LS as they were leaving Smallwood, so much so that she had to be carried. Yet, back at 5N, he is the one who goes to bed, and she is the one who is up and looking to party. Doesn't make sense IMO.

 

[Ixchel13]

A few things from the most-recent decision's rundown of the events that night strike me as interesting: [Names changed to initials by me:]

"On June 2, 2011, JR, a student at Indiana University, threw a party at his apartment. Among his guests were fellow students Lauren Spierer, CR, and MB, who, by all appearances, were well-acquainted with each other. CR served alcoholic drinks at his party, and Lauren--scarcely five feet tall and one hundred pounds--was among those served. She was not alone. For his part, CR drank heavily, and eventually he and Lauren left the party and went to his apartment which was located in the same complex.

"No. 14-3171 3
CR's roommate, MB, had been at CR's party and returned to the apartment where he encountered the two. Despite the fact that Lauren was visibly intoxicated, CR encouraged her to join him at a bar named Kilroy's that was located a few blocks from the apartment. He informed MB that he wanted to have "three more drinks at the bar and then [he would] be feeling good." Approximately one hour after leaving JR's party, Lauren and CR went to Kilroy's--

[Comment by Vidocq: So Lauren and CR had left JR's party, and were at his place for an hour, before they went to Kilroy's? That's interesting. It's been said they stopped off there. But this is the first I'm hearing it was for an hour.]

"--where Lauren was observed stumbling and requiring CR's assistance to walk. Disregarding her precarious condition, CR bought Lauren several drinks; eventually she lost her shoes and mobile phone. They remained at Kilroy's until approximately 2:30 in the morning. After leaving Kilroy's, the pair initially headed to Lauren's apartment complex where they encountered other students outside the elevator on Lauren's floor. CR got into a physical altercation with one of those students who took issue with him for failing to assist the visibly intoxicated Lauren into her apartment. Instead of escorting Lauren from the elevator to her apartment--a distance less than a hundred yards--the pair set off for his apartment where CR was observed en route carrying Lauren slung across his back. At around 3:30 in the morning, MB (CR's roommate) returned to the apartment and was startled to find CR and Lauren there. At first, he suspected that they were burglars--

[Comment by Vidocq: I've heard this detail before, but not with the time stamp of 3:30. Interesting. But why does MB think they're burglars? I can only think it was because they didn't have the lights on in the apartment, yet they were making noise --if indeed this really happened at all.]

--because the apartment had been the site of previous crimes. Instead, he encountered Lauren, who appeared even more intoxicated than she had been earlier in the evening. The pleadings suggest that CR went to

"4 No. 14-3171
sleep at this point and that MB was left alone with Lauren. In light of her condition--she was slurring her speech, for example--MB tried to convince Lauren to sleep on the couch in the apartment. Lauren, however, wanted to go back to her apartment. For reasons that are not clear, instead of escorting Lauren back to her apartment, MB brought her to JR's apartment, which had been the site of the party earlier that evening. JR also grew concerned when he saw Lauren's condition. He attempted to contact several of her friends for the purpose of arranging a ride back to her apartment--

[Comment by Vidocq: A two-block ride. I'm surprised he didn't try to buy plane tickets. As always, the story starts failing the sniff test, as soon as MB supposedly takes Lauren to JR's.]

--but was unable to arrange transport. At this point, MB left his apartment.

[Comment by Vidocq: It seems like someone, MB or JR, has made a point of stating that MB witnessed JR attempt to arrange transport, but left right after that. Whatever that means.]

Shortly afterwards, at approximately 4:30 a.m., Rosenbaum allowed Lauren to leave his residence on her own and briefly observed her walking in the direction of her apartment. He was the last known person to see Lauren alive. A security camera located along Lauren's return route did not capture any images of her walking home."

[Comment by Vidocq: I've heard this before, but which security camera might this refer to?

Regarding timeline: I'd previous heard that MB called JR (supposedly to see if he was home, before taking Lauren over) at 3:30. But this rundown has MB not getting home until 3:30. This rundown also states that MB left Lauren with JR after he made his calls, which I believe is supposed to have happened at 4:15.]

BBM Yes, they made call(S). One thing that must be confusing all of the calls is, they all
happened within 3-4 blocks. There is a huge ATT antenna building on I think 9th and College, anyway, there is an urban cell tower there that probably all the pings bounced off of that night. So the findings might be vague, but findings were there. IMO.
IOW, a number of peolple either involved directly or on the fringe of the events could have been texting but all would be pinging from that one tower so it would be iffy as to their exact location. Theory only please take pot shots at it everyone.

 

[newmember]

:goodpost:

BBM. For me, the story begins to fall apart shortly before that. When CR supposedly goes to sleep. It does not make sense to me that CR would go through the effort of carrying LS to his apartment just so that he could go to sleep. Also, it seems CR was in much better shape than LS as they were leaving Smallwood, so much so that she had to be carried. Yet, back at 5N, he is the one who goes to bed, and she is the one who is up and looking to party. Doesn't make sense IMO.

Agreed this is where the story falls apart. Just another way to speculate, maybe CR didn't go to sleep as much as he blacked out. IMO, I think that is possible given the time of night and excessive partying. People handle intoxication differently and it affects you differently on different nights, so without being with CR that night, I just can't rule it out. For what it is worth, IMO, the hours of 2-4am are "normal" pass out times.

I think all (or most) us can agree CR is a crucial component to the timeline for two reasons: he is with LS for part of the night AND he was interested in her, thus creating motive. Therefore, I strongly agree this is where the story falls apart:

Either CR is lying or he is telling the truth. If CR is telling the truth, our timeline and motive both become unclear and now there are a myriad of possibilities as to what happened and that, IMO, is one of the scariest aspects of this entire tragedy.

 

[Ros]

Here is a link to a legal analysis of what went wrong in the Spierers' lawsuit: http://www.natlawreview.com/article/defendant-can-get-summary-judgment-without-producing-evidence

 

[Vidocq]

A thought to start your Labor Day Weekend with: I was just thinking about the floor plan at 5N. Which can be seen here:

http://currydevelopment.com/5north/floorplans_unit297_3f.html.

(You have to re-select the apartment, to look at, every time you pick a different floor. Or else it keeps bringing you back to 277.)

I'm noticing that CR and MB's apartment has four bedrooms. And JR's apartment has five. All of these bedrooms have their own full bathrooms and closet space.

So, why are CR and MB the only one's mentioned as staying at their place. And what about JR, who had 4 full bedrooms and bathrooms to spare. If the missing roommates were going to be gone for the summer, would they sublet?

It also makes me think about MB's story about mistaking Lauren and CR for burglars. Were they in the living room with the lights out? If they were upstairs in a bedroom, it seems he wouldn't have had the burglar impression.

It also makes me suspect that Mystery Man was a roommate of CR and MB, or else was subletting. Just speculating.

(EDIT: I also wanted to mention that, when I was looking at JR's apartment on the website, I got an error message, whenever I tried to look at the 2nd floor: the floor off of which is the infamous balcony. As a conspiracy theorist, I found this noteworthy.)

 

[Ixchel13]

A thought to start your Labor Day Weekend with: I was just thinking about the floor plan at 5N. Which can be seen here:

http://currydevelopment.com/5north/floorplans_unit297_3f.html.

(You have to re-select the apartment, to look at, every time you pick a different floor. Or else it keeps bringing you back to 277.)

I'm noticing that CR and MB's apartment has four bedrooms. And JR's apartment has five. All of these bedrooms have their own full bathrooms and closet space.

So, why are CR and MB the only one's mentioned as staying at their place. And what about JR, who had 4 full bedrooms and bathrooms to spare. If the missing roommates were going to be gone for the summer, would they sublet?

It also makes me think about MB's story about mistaking Lauren and CR for burglars. Where they in the living room with the lights out? If they were upstairs in a bedroom, it seem he wouldn't have had the burglar impression.

It also makes me suspect that Mystery Man was a roommate of CR and MB, or else was subletting. Just speculating.

(EDIT: I also wanted to mention that, when I was looking at JR's apartment on the website, I got an error message, whenever I tried to look at the 2nd floor: the floor off of which is the infamous balcony. As a conspiracy theorist, I found this noteworthy.)

BBM Good One! Also, don't forget the guest we do know about, "DB"\Of the slept-through-the-whole -thing and the tweeting about corned beef the next morning fame.

His dad owns apts all over downtown Ann Arbor, and his older bro got into trouble up there with a football star over drugging/raping a girl at one of their parties in one of their dad's apt. bldgs. This has been discussed/linked way back.

And yet, LE refuses to even name this guy, even though he was right there in JR's apt
during the time Lauren left/went missing.

And yes, Vidocq, as I have said before, there are unnamed POIs. Gotta be. Like, who is the unnamed guy that was the one supposedly that JR called last?

There are several "mystery men" in this case:

#1. The guy actually called the mystery man, who carried Lauren up the street.
Not the same as her walking up the alley piggy back with CR, IMO Was he coming from ZC's apt? IMO? And was he subletting, as Vidocq suggests?
#2. DB. It's a mystery why they won't even print his name although he was there right when Lauren disappeared.
#3. The guy JR called last. apparently, he was with lauren's group pre-gaming at SW before she and DR left for JR's.
#4 Bartender witness-Not a man, but her testimony is the key to the mystery. And is
being garbled by LE on purpose, IMO.
BTW, just went by 10th and C and see that they are redoing the entire parking in the front, and as a result the camera lines from Salzmann's across the street will now be skewed.
Here's the deal, everything all around that building has been changed except the two alleys intersecting, the one LS SUPPOSEDLY went up with CR, and the alley that borders the now defunct gravel lot.
. Ya know, in a movie or something, it would be very suspicious that someone slowly and calculatingly changed a crime scene like Lauren's has been changed. And weirdly, everything we have posted about has been remodelled!!
We talked about Kilroy's Beach--gone!
We talked about the gated entrances to !0th and College Villages--gone!
We talked about the walkways between the houses that led to 5N back parking-gone!
We talked about the gravel lot-gone!
We talked about the dumpster in gravel lot for 5N-gone!
Alley leading from SW to street in front of 10th and C-gone!

We should put up the original crime scene map and superimpose what is there now.
Chuz Life, are ya out there?

Yes Vidocq, very good idea about going back to layouts.

 

[Ixchel13]

Agreed this is where the story falls apart. Just another way to speculate, maybe CR didn't go to sleep as much as he blacked out. IMO, I think that is possible given the time of night and excessive partying. People handle intoxication differently and it affects you differently on different nights, so without being with CR that night, I just can't rule it out. For what it is worth, IMO, the hours of 2-4am are "normal" pass out times.

I think all (or most) us can agree CR is a crucial component to the timeline for two reasons: he is with LS for part of the night AND he was interested in her, thus creating motive. Therefore, I strongly agree this is where the story falls apart:

Either CR is lying or he is telling the truth. If CR is telling the truth, our timeline and motive both become unclear and now there are a myriad of possibilities as to what happened and that, IMO, is one of the scariest aspects of this entire tragedy.

I think he's telling the truth in that he may have blacked/passed out.
If he passed out, he doesn't remember, probably.
If he blacked out, then he was walking around doing things he has no memory of.
two very, very different things!
If he passed out, then people can make up anything they want about what he supposedly did, because no one would see him except his roomies.
If he blacked out, then other people besides the POIs would have probably witnessed his antics,making it hard to pin something on him he didn't do.
Remember, his "amnesia" begins 15 minutes before he leaves Kilroy's with Lauren and heads toward SW and into the Altercation.
So anything he did or anyone he saw at Kilroy's right before they left is a tantalizing limbo.
But then, LE has viewed Kilroy's videos, so they do indeed know who was at Kilroy's
right before LS and CR left, and then if those same people were involved in the Altercation... thus the unnamed POIs.

 

[Ros]

I think I remember reading (not sure where, PT maybe) that all of JR's roommates had gone home. The Spierer lawsuit names DB and others in JR's circle as potential witnesses. I think the PT threads are also just gone. Same for TGs original blog with comments. And articles in the Journal-News are gone. I hope that BPD, BD and Assoc., and the Spierers preserved much of the original geographical information and information from mainstream and social media.

 

[LongTallTexan]

Since the beginning I have continued to reanalyze the information that is available to us, but I keep going back to what we don't know...the gaps in the information that clearly exist and for some reason are being withheld. PPD and Spierer know more than we do, it's apparent because little nuggets of info continue to come our way, but there is more i.e. who was the second call to from JR phone at 4:30. If they released one recipient (DR), why not the second....what are they withholding, what do they know? There are several topics that could be confirmed or placed on a timeline with more accuracy than what we have today, yet it is still being withheld.

On the topic of JW....I do not see his behavior as consistent with a student the next morning. He was very eager to meet up with her, but not so eager the night before. She had clearly gone to Indy the weekend before with the same guys, but I don't believe JW was there....where was the concern? I know in today's age of texting/phones, we are more constantly connected, but phone batteries die, we lose them, forget them somewhere, yet his instant conclusion is that she is in danger to the extent that he needs to meet the roommate in class, get a key and let himself in....because he found her phone? I don't buy it. If he expected to be that connected and can't imagine that she may have been sleeping it off at a girlfriends and lost her phone, then where was that same concern and connection the night before?

3:10-4:15 -- what the hell were they doing. The estimate is that LS and CR showed up at 5N about that time based on their pace and the camera surveillance. MB comes home, CR vomits, CR goes to bed, MB and LS walk next door to JR's, then calls are made at 4:15, and she leaves at 4:30. That's over an hour.....I too believe that she left 5N in that time frame and walked back to 10th and Cottage and arrived there about the 3:30 time frame, is witnessed by the bartender and carried off again back to 5N....but again, a 'mystery man' that I'm sure BPD are aware of and yet no info.....if they have CR and LS in that vicinity on camera, they they would also have the mystery man and LS on camera.

I think there's way more to this than the trip to Kilroy's and SW and back to 5N and then vanished.....more are involved, but not a conspiracy, quite the opposite, many may not know the whole story and if the area and kids are really that drug ridden, than mostly likely the blackmail and fear for their lives is keeping them silent.

Someone needs to grow a pair and rat them out!

 

[imkeylime]

Since the beginning I have continued to reanalyze the information that is available to us, but I keep going back to what we don't know...the gaps in the information that clearly exist and for some reason are being withheld. PPD and Spierer know more than we do, it's apparent because little nuggets of info continue to come our way, but there is more i.e. who was the second call to from JR phone at 4:30. If they released one recipient (DR), why not the second....what are they withholding, what do they know? There are several topics that could be confirmed or placed on a timeline with more accuracy than what we have today, yet it is still being withheld.

On the topic of JW....I do not see his behavior as consistent with a student the next morning. He was very eager to meet up with her, but not so eager the night before. She had clearly gone to Indy the weekend before with the same guys, but I don't believe JW was there....where was the concern? I know in today's age of texting/phones, we are more constantly connected, but phone batteries die, we lose them, forget them somewhere, yet his instant conclusion is that she is in danger to the extent that he needs to meet the roommate in class, get a key and let himself in....because he found her phone? I don't buy it. If he expected to be that connected and can't imagine that she may have been sleeping it off at a girlfriends and lost her phone, then where was that same concern and connection the night before?

3:10-4:15 -- what the hell were they doing. The estimate is that LS and CR showed up at 5N about that time based on their pace and the camera surveillance. MB comes home, CR vomits, CR goes to bed, MB and LS walk next door to JR's, then calls are made at 4:15, and she leaves at 4:30. That's over an hour.....I too believe that she left 5N in that time frame and walked back to 10th and Cottage and arrived there about the 3:30 time frame, is witnessed by the bartender and carried off again back to 5N....but again, a 'mystery man' that I'm sure BPD are aware of and yet no info.....if they have CR and LS in that vicinity on camera, they they would also have the mystery man and LS on camera.

I think there's way more to this than the trip to Kilroy's and SW and back to 5N and then vanished.....more are involved, but not a conspiracy, quite the opposite, many may not know the whole story and if the area and kids are really that drug ridden, than mostly likely the blackmail and fear for their lives is keeping them silent.

Someone needs to grow a pair and rat them out!

It seems to me that there are very vague circumstances concerning: 1) What transpired after LS went to 5N with CR and MB contacted JR about LS and 2) What transpired when JR contacted DR and whomever at 4:15. Re: 1): a neighbor woman (VS) claimed that MB told her that LS was gone after he went upstairs with CR that night (versus that he walked her to JR's) and 2): there isn't any proof other than JR and MB's word that LS was even at 5N at 4:15 am … she wouldn't have had to be there for JR to make the calls for whatever reason. I think you may be on to something but also wonder if she even made it back to 5N after that. That would account for no credible evidence being found there had she passed away, etc.

 

[1&2&3]

Here is a link to a legal analysis of what went wrong in the Spierers' lawsuit: http://www.natlawreview.com/article/defendant-can-get-summary-judgment-without-producing-evidence

After reading this analysis, it raises the question as to how the Spierer lawyers could misunderstand such an important point? Knowing their suit was being scrutinized by the best lawyers money can buy, plus the validity of the suit, it would really infuriate me to loose on such a point!

I am not new to this case. In the beginning, I followed it for months, then keep checking in to see the status. My heart breaks for Lauren's parents as someone(s) in that group knows what happened! There was no stranger involved. Money talks and IMO money was/is being used to keep people mum. The question is how deep does it go??

My opinions only.

 

[akh]

After reading this analysis, it raises the question as to how the Spierer lawyers could misunderstand such an important point? Knowing their suit was being scrutinized by the best lawyers money can buy, plus the validity of the suit, it would really infuriate me to loose on such a point!

I am not new to this case. In the beginning, I followed it for months, then keep checking in to see the status. My heart breaks for Lauren's parents as someone(s) in that group knows what happened! There was no stranger involved. Money talks and IMO money was/is being used to keep people mum. The question is how deep does it go??

My opinions only.

I think they were hoping they'd get a judge that would rule more on emotion versus the word of law and find a way to keep it alive. At least to the point they could play this out thru discovery. But rare is the judge that wants to be overturned on appeal so that was a shot in the dark.

 

[jamicat]

I think they were hoping they'd get a judge that would rule more on emotion versus the word of law and find a way to keep it alive. At least to the point they could play this out thru discovery. But rare is the judge that wants to be overturned on appeal so that was a shot in the dark.

I think the Spierers were well informed of their chances of getting any legal recourse on these guys. They are intelligent people and had access to excellent lawyers. What they were likely doing was trying to get something, anything if only to keep the case rolling and the pressure on these cads that let their daughter who was blitzed out of her mind out into the early morning, shoeless, phoneless instead of calling a cab, the cops, escorting her, calling someone to help her out. Other than a lawyer composed apology, little contrition for these guys and their families. I

 

[Mahouston69]

Agreed they just wanted the legal opportunity to depose and discover anything and everything under penalty of perjury.