IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #34

[monkey222]

Jacobite, In the WBIW full article with link in post #589..full article says they met in prison in 1996. Alot more in that article. So...any actives searches where a body is supposed to be? Wonder how this story just appeared....

 

[bessie]

Does anyone remember if it was ever said that Lauren sometimes used an ID with her sister's name on it?

 

[Ros]

I remember that there was a rumor that LS used her sister's ID. Not sure where that came from though.

 

[Ros]

http://www.idsnews.com/article/2015/11/daniel-messel-case

I wonder why Hayden is just now talking. About to get out and wants reward money? False confession to get attention? Trying to separate himself from Messel? Didn't say anything before for fear of Messel? Who knows?

 

[Ros]

As I have said before, LE has to have seen either the fake ID she used to get into Kilroy's or an image of that ID.
http://ww.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/09/15/news.qp-0329186.sto

FWIW, here is what I remember about LS and her IDs
1) An ID (real or fake) was found with her keys (several MSM reports)
2) She had a fake ID with her at JRs (I think JR was reported to have said this in one of the court documents, but I am no longer sure).
3) Her fake ID was found someplace around Walnut Street (unsubstantiated rumor)
4) She used her sister's ID (unsubstantiated rumor)

 

[bessie]

Thanks. I knew something was said about Lauren using her sister's ID, but I didn't want to say for sure because I thought I might have been mixing up facts with another case. But...just to repeat, it was never confirmed as a fact, and I don't want to give anyone the impression it was more than a rumor.

 

[akh]

As I have said before, LE has to have seen either the fake ID she used to get into Kilroy's or an image of that ID.
http://ww.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/09/15/news.qp-0329186.sto

FWIW, here is what I remember about LS and her IDs
1) An ID (real or fake) was found with her keys (several MSM reports)
2) She had a fake ID with her at JRs (I think JR was reported to have said this in one of the court documents, but I am no longer sure).
3) Her fake ID was found someplace around Walnut Street (unsubstantiated rumor)
4) She used her sister's ID (unsubstantiated rumor)

It isn't really necessary that they saw the ID to make a case. They know she was under 21 and they know she was in the bar. That's a case right there. The other comments do lead us to believe they knew she used a fake id and have some idea of what was on it. The first part only takes a video where they can see her showing 'something' to the doorman. The second part would only take either an admission from a family member or friend trying to help find her and telling that they let her use their ID. Or a statement from someone else that outed a family member or friend and told LE what ID she was using. Which in either case LE should've been able to pull a copy from records.
Even CR could've told what ID she used. Or the boyfriend likely would've known what fake ID she normally used when going to bars.
EDIT: LE likely would've put a lot of pressure on friends and family to report any fake ID she might be using because they could argue they might need to be looking for someone using that name or found with that ID.
The ID wasn't necessary to make the case (There's no question Kilroy's served her as a minor). And it is a pretty easy leap to think of scenarios where LE would've learned what ID she was using without physically having that exact ID from the night in their possession.

 

[Ros]

The comments to this HT article mention both rumors about her ID: 1) that her ID was found at 12th and Walnut and 2) that she was using her sister's ID. http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/fr...5a74-b063-e43582309a62.html#user-comment-area

From JKK on 22 January 2014 referred to a rumor that she was using her sister's ID

From LydiaF on 22jan2014 said that she did not know the "fact" that her ID was found at 12th and Walnut.

And from the comments on a later HT article: " American Girl posted at 3:13 pm on Thu, Jan 30, 2014. I think DL means driver's license.


"American Girl
Posts: 7210

Her DL was found in a yard at 12th and Walnut. A bracelet similar or identical to the one she was seen wearing was found just off a nearby alley, along with a pair of panties..."
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/fr...5217-8286-b8664273d3bf.html#user-comment-area

The same poster, "American Girl" also said that her "photo ID" was found at 12th and Walnut in comments to an April 2014 H-T article (see below). However, another poster made an ad hominem attack on "American Girl" in the comments to the same article, apparently in an attempt to discredit her posts.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/ne...cle_0946d189-b5eb-52c6-add7-3ef0d8e863bd.html

And in a comment to this article "American Girl" inquired about her ID being found in a wallet at 11th and Walnut: http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/fr...5260-967b-820e296efa30.html#user-comment-area

I normally would not quote from comments to articles, but it seemed helpful to do so in order to help us keep the bits and pieces we know about her ID(s). Also, comments and articles disappear or go behind a paywall. I consider the finding of a photo ID driver's license in a wallet in a yard at 11th or 12th and Walnut an unsubstantiated rumor; same for her using her sister's ID.

 

[akh]

http://www.idsnews.com/article/2015/11/daniel-messel-case

I wonder why Hayden is just now talking. About to get out and wants reward money? False confession to get attention? Trying to separate himself from Messel? Didn't say anything before for fear of Messel? Who knows?

If he's to be believed it said he went to LE with concerns about Messel before this summer's murder. So it doesn't sound like he was waiting. And who knows how long this information has been in the file? Some reporter just got a look at the case file and saw it just now is more likely than it being new information with this guy just coming forward.

That said, he still seems like a potentially dubious witness. But, he could be absolutely crazy and still be telling the truth too.

 

[Ros]

This is why I think LE had to have seen the fake ID she used at Kilroy's or LE has seen an image of it:

"The height and weight displayed on the ID Spierer used to get into Kilroy’s Sports clearly did not match Spierer’s actual frame of 4-feet-11-inches tall and 90 pounds. “Apparently, it was substantial, the difference,” said Travis Thickstun, excise police public information officer.

Thickstun did not provide specifics about the ID Spierer used to get into the bar, including the name, date of birth, picture or state of issue that appeared on the ID.

“Any reasonable person should have and would have known, based on the physical description, that this wasn’t the person described on the ID,” Thickstun said in a phone interview. “And that’s the standard we used in false ID cases: Should the person have known that the person was underage or that the ID wasn’t valid?” "
http://ww.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/09/15/news.qp-0329186.sto

 

[Ros]

And there was a comment by sweet_blush on WS in August of 2012 that referred to LS' use of her sister's ID: 08-11-2012, 05:26 PM. So the rumor might have originated on PS, since that was the source of information for many of sweet_blush's posts.

There was also discussion in May of 2014 in WS thread #33 about her ID being in her apartment at Smallwood, and her roommate turning it over to the police.

 

[Ros]

Finally found the article that said that JR reported that LS had her fake ID and Smallwood key card with her when she came to his apartment:
"They [LS and MB] came over together, and Rosenbaum said he put on sweatclothes and opened the door. Spierer came carrying her fake ID and Smallwood key card, he said."

http://www.lohud.com/article/20120603/news02/306030045

 

[Jacobite]

It was just a few months ago that I was speaking to a man who worked security at 10th & College Apartments. He said Lauren's fake ID was found on Walnut Street by a doctor's wife. And, he believed her.
I then told him I had read on Websleuths that there were no cameras that would have captured Lauren if she had taken the way home claimed by JR until she reached Smallwood. He pointed at a camera in the alley on the north side of 621 N College.
He said the camera was pointed right at College Ave and had been pointed that way all along. And, that camera would have caught her if she had made it south, just half a block.

 

[Jacobite]

The trouble I have with this new jail-mate story is that Indiana records seem to indicate the two jailbirds were always in different facilities.
However, I do believe Messel is my POI number 1. Out late Thursday night stalking young wealthy college women. So, I do hope the FBI looks into the jailmate story. It might be true.

 

[Mahouston69]

Is Lake Monroe in Brown County? Did either of these men own a white truck?

 

[akh]

The trouble I have with this new jail-mate story is that Indiana records seem to indicate the two jailbirds were always in different facilities.
However, I do believe Messel is my POI number 1. Out late Thursday night stalking young wealthy college women. So, I do hope the FBI looks into the jailmate story. It might be true.

I don't think this is about a jailhouse confession made in a conversation between cellmates. I read it as the guy is someone that claims he knew DM before either was in jail. Then once he was in jail he brought up concerns about DM for whatever reason even prior to DM's arrest.
So it shouldn't matter if they've never been in the same facilities. What would matter is whether they were both out and free around the same time to have met on the outside and been able to do the things that this man alleges they have done. Or even if it's possible they were really acquainted in the first place.

 

[Ros]

Based on the IDS article, Hayden and Messel met in 1996 when they were both incarcerated. Then they ran into each other again in Terre haute and Bloomington. Hayden says he reported his concerns about Messel to two mental health professionals before HW was killed. Hayden started writing the letters in May after her death. Hayden is not on the list of witnesses against Messel. The IDS article says that Hayden helped a friend move a female body, thought to.be LS. It does not say the friend was Messel.
http://www.idsnews.com/article/2015/11/daniel-messel-case
There is an reticle in the Herald-Times too, but I don't have a subscription.
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/ne...cle_267eba20-a3f0-5524-a8c2-f65230317968.html

 

[Ixchel13]

"Hayden also said he has information on the death of IU student Lauren Spierer. In a letter, he claimed that in 2012 a friend hit a woman he believes to be Spierer with her vehicle, killing her. The friend later disposed of the body along Highway 46."

There was a rumor that the bar witness had a charge against her for hit and run.

not saying that it was Lauren, couldn't have been. But
could Hayden have read the rumor?

(modsnip)

IOW, LE was probably receiving all kinds of "first hand"
info. Curious as to why they stick to the POIs.

It could be what I've said before, that the POIs, incl. JW, etc, were not guilty of hiding Lauren's body, but had stalked her from location to location and caused her more than once to flee into the night. First, from SW and then who knows, maybe from 5N into the clutches of someone like DM.

Let's suppose just for one moment that Lauren was able to walk, she had shakily passed the supposed sobriety test.

Maybe she was trying to leave, but JR had already called JW and Lauren didn't want a confrontation.
Maybe JR actually DID see someone intercept her at the corner and thought it was JW.

Went by the former apt of JR. Noticed that the balcony he may have been talking about was the rooftop one.
From there, he could see the corner.

The sobriety test could have been a stall tactic. It also fits the many texts JW started sending Lauren. She could have disappeared right around the corner from them during an attempt to corral her in.

 

[pappa rob]

Is Lake Monroe in Brown County? Did either of these men own a white truck?

It's very close to Brown County, the river and marshes that go into Lake Monroe are in Brown County.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Is Lake Monroe in Brown County? Did either of these men own a white truck?

Above Respecfully BBM. That was the first question that came to my mind, Mahouston69.