IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #34

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Is Lake Monroe in Brown County? Did either of these men own a white truck?

The easternmost part of Lake Monroe is in Brown County. There are many other lakes in Brown County including Cordry-Sweetwater, Yellowwood and the eastern portion of Lake Lemon (near where HW's body was found). Some, such as Cordry-Sweetwater, are surrounded by homes and not a good choice for any nefarious activity.

There were probably many vehicles seen on the surveillance video; the white truck is the only one that LE described to the public. LE is likely to compare the vehicles used by Hayden and Messel in June of 2011 to the other vehicles that were seen on video that night.
 
Now, who is it who claims to have seen the video of Lauren leaving Smallwood because a man from Security told me they wouldn't show that to anyone without a warrant. After all that might violate the privacy of some senators son or daughter.
And, remember BPD broke down the door to the security center and confiscated the hard drives before the person could have seen the video. So now am I to believe the cops are saying they are keeping it close to the vest while assisting a reporter in writing a scandalous story by sharing that elevator video?
 
Now, who is it who claims to have seen the video of Lauren leaving Smallwood because a man from Security told me they wouldn't show that to anyone without a warrant. After all that might violate the privacy of some senators son or daughter.
And, remember BPD broke down the door to the security center and confiscated the hard drives before the person could have seen the video. So now am I to believe the cops are saying they are keeping it close to the vest while assisting a reporter in writing a scandalous story by sharing that elevator video?

BBM. I don't remember who claimed to have seen the video of LS outside the apartment, but information is shared with the press all the time off the record by members of law enforcement. I don't think it is at all unbelievable that some reporters have seen videos that have not been made public.
 
Now, who is it who claims to have seen the video of Lauren leaving Smallwood because a man from Security told me they wouldn't show that to anyone without a warrant. After all that might violate the privacy of some senators son or daughter.
And, remember BPD broke down the door to the security center and confiscated the hard drives before the person could have seen the video. So now am I to believe the cops are saying they are keeping it close to the vest while assisting a reporter in writing a scandalous story by sharing that elevator video?

I think it was an anonymous source cited in this Journal News article: http://archive.lohud.com/article/20...lding-video-no-condition-help-friend-get-home The article state that "scores of people" saw the evidence. The article refers to the source as "he" and states that Carl Salzmann did not see the video.
 
Mahouston69 said:
Is Lake Monroe in Brown County? Did either of these men own a white truck?

Above Respecfully BBM. That was the first question that came to my mind, Mahouston69.

Now I can't stop seeing LS in the bed of the truck, facing, maybe even looking up at the camera, nor can I stop seeing someone looking out of the left lower pane of the middle window in the photo.

I think it's an illusion -- I mean if she was even in the truck why wouldn't she be in the cab -- but I can't make it go away now.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/20/police-truck-not-tied-to-_n_880658.html
 
Now I can't stop seeing LS in the bed of the truck, facing, maybe even looking up at the camera, nor can I stop seeing someone looking out of the left lower pane of the middle window in the photo.

I think it's an illusion -- I mean if she was even in the truck why wouldn't she be in the cab -- but I can't make it go away now.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/20/police-truck-not-tied-to-_n_880658.html

My opinion of the white truck picture is that it is LS superimposed into the back of the truck. They took an image of her sitting on the curb and put her into the back of the truck. I think it is possible she really was in the cab of that truck. JMO
 
Oh, not the white truck again. The driver was located and his story vetted.
 
Oh, not the white truck again. The driver was located and his story vetted.

True. But that story doesn't make any sense. Never did. They did not need to release that picture in order to find the driver of that truck. JMO
 
I've been following Lauren's case since the beginning, but this is the first time I've posted, mainly because most of the things I believe happened, or speculate about, have been discussed already. The arrest of Messel and the information given Hayden have obviously created new things to discuss about this case, and led to a lot of new speculation so I decided to finally weigh in.

I don't think Messel is involved, and I think Hayden's claims are absurd, but I do believe both are worth investigating. Any evidence is worth considering at this point. That being said, I cannot understand why the white truck is coming up again. While I've followed this case relatively closely since the beginning, I have not read every single thread, so maybe I'm missing something, but what about LE's story regarding the white truck doesn't make sense? If they were unable to get a license plate number or any distinctive markings, how would they find the truck w.o the public's help? White pickup trucks are relatively common vehicles, they cannot possibly investigate EVERY white pickup truck w.o more identifying info...without a license plate, they wouldn't even know for sure it came from Indiana. The amount of time that would take is absurd...it would be much easier to go to the public and hope someone comes forward. This has certainly been done before.

I can sort of see how people can see a body in the back of the truck (personally I don't, but that's just me) but you can trick your mind to see just about anything, especially when you're looking at a black and white surveillance photo. LE, as far as I know, clearly vetted and cleared this guy, which makes me believe they have 100% eliminated the truck, particularly since they came out and told the public they have. They haven't even formally named all of the POIs (if I remember correctly) so coming to the public to formally clear someone makes me think they know for sure there is no connection.

I have gone back and forth on what I believe happened to Lauren, and there is no denying she was a high risk target that would have been perfect to abduct. My problem with that theory is, if you are to believe she was abducted, it must have been sometime after leaving JR's. That means that she had to have been able to walk out of JR's w.o help, AND that JR was concerned enough about her safety to administer a sobriety test, but not concerned that she had no shoes, no cell phone, and no keys. If she went home w.o keys and a cellphone, then she probably wasn't as sober as JR says she was, since she'd have no way of getting into her apt, or calling her roommate to let her in. It's possible he feels guilty for letting her walk alone and lied about the sobriety test to make himself look better, but unlikely. Personally, I don't think she was in any condition to walk from JR's. I have been around people who are extremely drunk, drunk enough that I was somewhat worried about their safety, and I have NEVER seen anyone so drunk they fell onto the pavement w.o attempting to break their fall, who were then able to pass a sobriety test, however poorly administered, 2 hours later. I don't even think it's possible. If we believe what MB and JR are saying, Lauren went from so drunk she was unable to walk, to talking/walking/trying to party within an hour. I don't believe it for a second. I will believe CR's amnesia claim before I will believe Lauren was passing sobriety tests and trying to party w. no shoes or phone after hitting her head on the pavement multiple times.

I think the key to solving this case is trying to figure out how/why JR involved himself. CR was the last person we can 100 percent verify was w. Lauren, but he gets to claim amnesia while MB and JR are left scrambling (and failing) to get their stories straight? MB was obviously going to get involved one way or another since he was CR's roommate and it appeared they were heading back to his apt, but why involve JR? Either they are telling the truth and CR did make it back to his apt w. Lauren, and MB took her to JR's, or they are lying. If we believe they are lying, then they had something on JR that forced him to be the one to claim he and he alone was the last one to see Lauren. I can see JR covering for CR to an extent, but claiming you are the last person Lauren was w. before she disappeared is a dangerous position to but yourself in, especially considering CR gets to claim amnesia and gets a free pass from answering any questions, while JR is left explaining. I can see no conceivable reason he would put himself in this position, unless it was true, or he was involved.

My personal belief is that Lauren died of either a drug or alcohol overdose (or a combination of both) OR as a result of intoxication and head injuries related to falling on the pavement. I think it's possible she died before even getting to 5N, but i DEFINITELY think she was never at JR's, at least not alive. MB got involved when she either made it to his apt and died there, or died en route and CR asked him for help/involved him in some way. I think JR got involved because they knew she had been w. him earlier, and knew/suspected he had given her drugs. I think it's also possible they made it back to 5N and Lauren consumed more drugs/alcohol and died there, but I just can't see her being in any condition to. It's also possible (but even less likely) that CR and MB are telling the truth, and Lauren made it to JR's, where she did more drugs/alcohol and died. CR could be telling the truth about his amnesia- he WAS in a physical altercation, and he had been drinking all night. Those two events could cause memory loss by themselves...combined they definitely could. I still think he knows more than he says, but was told to claim amnesia because it would be impossible to prove he didn't have it, and it would be one less person to worry about cracking/messing up the story.

The one thing that trips me up and leads me back to random abduction is how and where they successfully disposed of the body w.o being caught on camera. They weren't natives of Indiana and w. the exception of possibly MB, had been drinking and/or doing drugs all night. I believe I read CR's car and apartment were searched for sure, not sure about JR's.

Lots of possibilities for sure..unfortunately I expect this one to be cold for awhile, and if it's ever solved, it'll be by chance. 5N definitely did themselves a huge favor by lawyering up immediately, can't see them offering any information anytime soon, if ever. For the sake of Lauren's family, I hope I'm wrong.
 
My opinion of the white truck picture is that it is LS superimposed into the back of the truck. They took an image of her sitting on the curb and put her into the back of the truck. I think it is possible she really was in the cab of that truck. JMO

I don't think so. The one on Huffington Post is the same one LE was holding in the press conference and is the one released to the media by LE.

LE's vetting of the driver doesn't necessarily mean they didn't make an error. That said, I don't think she's there. I think the scale is wrong and what looks like a person to me is too big relative to the size of the cab and LE knows who the driver of the truck was, and one would hope that they would have put two and two together if it were one of those two.
 
I've been following Lauren's case since the beginning, but this is the first time I've posted, mainly because most of the things I believe happened, or speculate about, have been discussed already. The arrest of Messel and the information given Hayden have obviously created new things to discuss about this case, and led to a lot of new speculation so I decided to finally weigh in.

I don't think Messel is involved, and I think Hayden's claims are absurd, but I do believe both are worth investigating. Any evidence is worth considering at this point. That being said, I cannot understand why the white truck is coming up again. While I've followed this case relatively closely since the beginning, I have not read every single thread, so maybe I'm missing something, but what about LE's story regarding the white truck doesn't make sense? If they were unable to get a license plate number or any distinctive markings, how would they find the truck w.o the public's help? White pickup trucks are relatively common vehicles, they cannot possibly investigate EVERY white pickup truck w.o more identifying info...without a license plate, they wouldn't even know for sure it came from Indiana. The amount of time that would take is absurd...it would be much easier to go to the public and hope someone comes forward. This has certainly been done before.

I can sort of see how people can see a body in the back of the truck (personally I don't, but that's just me) but you can trick your mind to see just about anything, especially when you're looking at a black and white surveillance photo. LE, as far as I know, clearly vetted and cleared this guy, which makes me believe they have 100% eliminated the truck, particularly since they came out and told the public they have. They haven't even formally named all of the POIs (if I remember correctly) so coming to the public to formally clear someone makes me think they know for sure there is no connection.

I have gone back and forth on what I believe happened to Lauren, and there is no denying she was a high risk target that would have been perfect to abduct. My problem with that theory is, if you are to believe she was abducted, it must have been sometime after leaving JR's. That means that she had to have been able to walk out of JR's w.o help, AND that JR was concerned enough about her safety to administer a sobriety test, but not concerned that she had no shoes, no cell phone, and no keys. If she went home w.o keys and a cellphone, then she probably wasn't as sober as JR says she was, since she'd have no way of getting into her apt, or calling her roommate to let her in. It's possible he feels guilty for letting her walk alone and lied about the sobriety test to make himself look better, but unlikely. Personally, I don't think she was in any condition to walk from JR's. I have been around people who are extremely drunk, drunk enough that I was somewhat worried about their safety, and I have NEVER seen anyone so drunk they fell onto the pavement w.o attempting to break their fall, who were then able to pass a sobriety test, however poorly administered, 2 hours later. I don't even think it's possible. If we believe what MB and JR are saying, Lauren went from so drunk she was unable to walk, to talking/walking/trying to party within an hour. I don't believe it for a second. I will believe CR's amnesia claim before I will believe Lauren was passing sobriety tests and trying to party w. no shoes or phone after hitting her head on the pavement multiple times.

I think the key to solving this case is trying to figure out how/why JR involved himself. CR was the last person we can 100 percent verify was w. Lauren, but he gets to claim amnesia while MB and JR are left scrambling (and failing) to get their stories straight? MB was obviously going to get involved one way or another since he was CR's roommate and it appeared they were heading back to his apt, but why involve JR? Either they are telling the truth and CR did make it back to his apt w. Lauren, and MB took her to JR's, or they are lying. If we believe they are lying, then they had something on JR that forced him to be the one to claim he and he alone was the last one to see Lauren. I can see JR covering for CR to an extent, but claiming you are the last person Lauren was w. before she disappeared is a dangerous position to but yourself in, especially considering CR gets to claim amnesia and gets a free pass from answering any questions, while JR is left explaining. I can see no conceivable reason he would put himself in this position, unless it was true, or he was involved.

My personal belief is that Lauren died of either a drug or alcohol overdose (or a combination of both) OR as a result of intoxication and head injuries related to falling on the pavement. I think it's possible she died before even getting to 5N, but i DEFINITELY think she was never at JR's, at least not alive. MB got involved when she either made it to his apt and died there, or died en route and CR asked him for help/involved him in some way. I think JR got involved because they knew she had been w. him earlier, and knew/suspected he had given her drugs. I think it's also possible they made it back to 5N and Lauren consumed more drugs/alcohol and died there, but I just can't see her being in any condition to. It's also possible (but even less likely) that CR and MB are telling the truth, and Lauren made it to JR's, where she did more drugs/alcohol and died. CR could be telling the truth about his amnesia- he WAS in a physical altercation, and he had been drinking all night. Those two events could cause memory loss by themselves...combined they definitely could. I still think he knows more than he says, but was told to claim amnesia because it would be impossible to prove he didn't have it, and it would be one less person to worry about cracking/messing up the story.

The one thing that trips me up and leads me back to random abduction is how and where they successfully disposed of the body w.o being caught on camera. They weren't natives of Indiana and w. the exception of possibly MB, had been drinking and/or doing drugs all night. I believe I read CR's car and apartment were searched for sure, not sure about JR's.

Lots of possibilities for sure..unfortunately I expect this one to be cold for awhile, and if it's ever solved, it'll be by chance. 5N definitely did themselves a huge favor by lawyering up immediately, can't see them offering any information anytime soon, if ever. For the sake of Lauren's family, I hope I'm wrong.

Great post.

I am on the fence, I guess. All along I have thought that one of the people she came into contact with that night had something to do with her disappearance. But it just seems so strange to me that they were able to get a body without any car or any of them being caught on camera someplace in those early morning hours. And as you've said, why would JR be willing to get himself into the mix unless he had something to do with some aspect of the crime unless some or all of his version of that night is true. Maybe he sexually assaulted her (or had 'consensual' sex with her to the extent that she was able to consent in her state) and was trying to cover that base in case her body turned up? And then there is her boyfriend's behavior coupled with the possibility (likely in my opinion) that he had already heard that she was running around with another guy that night while it was still in progress.

Maybe they just got really, really lucky and managed to hide the body really well without being caught on camera; maybe in a dumpster, maybe in some of the construction that was going on. It wouldn't be the first time that a killer has gotten stupid-lucky, but now that another girl has turned up dead after having an evening weirdly similar down to the same bar, but with better friends who actually put her in a cab and paid the cab fare, it's just so tempting to think that after four years with no body there may be some explanation that goes against the obvious.
 
Here's what does not make sense to me about the white truck:
1. About a week after LS disappeared, LE stopped about 100 vehicles that were in the area at that time of night, in order to ask the drivers if they had seen anything.
2. The white truck was singled out because there was a time discrepancy between its appearance on one camera and it appearance on the next camera.
3. The time discrepancy was later said to be due to the clocks n the cameras being out of sync.
4. So why didn't the time discrepancy affect the many other vehicles that were probably in the area at the time?
 
For any of the poi to pull body disposal off, he needs to be thinking clearly and leave his cell at home so it appears he was home all night. And at least three of the guys are techs who might think of that.
And, what I have been told about the dogs does give merit to the theory that she never made it back to 5 North.
 
Here's what does not make sense to me about the white truck:
1. About a week after LS disappeared, LE stopped about 100 vehicles that were in the area at that time of night, in order to ask the drivers if they had seen anything.
2. The white truck was singled out because there was a time discrepancy between its appearance on one camera and it appearance on the next camera.
3. The time discrepancy was later said to be due to the clocks n the cameras being out of sync.
4. So why didn't the time discrepancy affect the many other vehicles that were probably in the area at the time?

Good question -- maybe in that small window of time in the wee morning hours there just weren't other vehicles that drove exactly the same route as the truck and were therefore not caught on both (or all) of the same cameras, e.g., on one block they took a different turn... or else there were but they were ruled out immediately and so LE didn't pay attention to where they were when?
 
It could be that the white truck running the stop sign/light made the license unreadable and so it was the only vehicle they couldn't find by tracking plate numbers.

But it still adds to the mystery of why they said it was circling the block and then later said it wasn't circling the block but only appeared that way from inaccurate timestamps. Because then every vehicle on that path would appear to circle the block and that should have raised redflags and let them quickly suss out the timestamp problem before going public with that part of the initial narrative. Unless it was the only vehicle using that path.

And again, this is all information that LE could easily clear up by coming forward and updating the public on releasable details while cleaning up the timeline and rumors and speculation about the case. And answering lingering question. If they actually were interested in the public having an opportunity to help solve the case.

The white truck mainly remains in rumor and speculation because the above has never been explained, and the possibility that LE was untruthful about the truck in the first place for investigative reasons or was simply incomplete or even inept in their review of footage.
 
Oh, not the white truck again. The driver was located and his story vetted.

It could be that the white truck running the stop sign/light made the license unreadable and so it was the only vehicle they couldn't find by tracking plate numbers.

But it still adds to the mystery of why they said it was circling the block and then later said it wasn't circling the block but only appeared that way from inaccurate timestamps. Because then every vehicle on that path would appear to circle the block and that should have raised redflags and let them quickly suss out the timestamp problem before going public with that part of the initial narrative. Unless it was the only vehicle using that path.

And again, this is all information that LE could easily clear up by coming forward and updating the public on releasable details while cleaning up the timeline and rumors and speculation about the case. And answering lingering question. If they actually were interested in the public having an opportunity to help solve the case.

The white truck mainly remains in rumor and speculation because the above has never been explained, and the possibility that LE was untruthful about the truck in the first place for investigative reasons or was simply incomplete or even inept in their review of footage.

Can we please give the white truck a rest?
 
Can we please give the white truck a rest?

I'm giving the white truck a rest myself. I'm just explaining why, after the police clearing it publicly, it keeps popping back up and likely will keep popping back up in these threads until something changes.

It's probably just another example of 'noise' in this case that could be cleared up in moments if LE had any interest in the public's input in the case and making sure an accurate timeline and narrative existed in 2015. Or 2014. Or 2013....

There's always going to be some people skeptical of the white truck due to its initial appearance and weight given it by LE early in the case regardless of what LE has said or would say going forward. But for many I think it's something that could probably be put to rest if there was more of an open dialogue with law enforcement regarding this case.
 
Can we please give the white truck a rest?

I mean, it's not like there is just so much to talk about that the white truck is stopping people from solving the crime.
 
Can we please give the white truck a rest?

I didn't bring it up. I just gave my opinion on it again. And i think it is a major piece to this case, so I am always ready to discuss it.

I agree with the poster who said the scale is probably off with regards to the possible person in the back. That's why I said I think it is quite possible it was a picture of LS superimposed into the picture of the truck. They may have wanted someone to see that. It was an attempt to get someone to talk. That is the only thing they are waiting on... Someone to talk. JMO
 
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