Here's the article from the Indianapolis Monthly that mentions the scream and the homeless man who died. As I recall, someone claimed that person who heard the scream was called Tallboy not Road Dog, and that Tallboy disappeared, left, died, or something after meeting with the reporter and telling his story to the police. I wrote about this in a post on Websleuths on 08-17-2012, 04:47 pm. And on 08-18-2012, 02:38 PM. Others made comments about the same time.
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #34
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Ixchel13
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here's a theory, total speculation
There's a bar manager. She gets off work and goes to
buy drugs at 10th and C.Leaving there, She cuts down a narrow alley, and hits/possibly runs over, a blacked out/passed out Lauren.
Skigirl said it upthread, if you feel in danger it is safer to leave. Maybe that's why these guys won't tell the truth.
It is possible that she felt threatened enough to stagger out,
and then was hit by a car in the alley?
And that later, DM coincidentally helped move her body?
Not so coincidental if the bar was the same he frequented.
as stated above, JMO, speculation
There's a bar manager. She gets off work and goes to
buy drugs at 10th and C.Leaving there, She cuts down a narrow alley, and hits/possibly runs over, a blacked out/passed out Lauren.
Skigirl said it upthread, if you feel in danger it is safer to leave. Maybe that's why these guys won't tell the truth.
It is possible that she felt threatened enough to stagger out,
and then was hit by a car in the alley?
And that later, DM coincidentally helped move her body?
Not so coincidental if the bar was the same he frequented.
as stated above, JMO, speculation
Ibiz
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That's a possibility. I think I read the article where the Crazy guy mentioned something like that.
On another note. I was doing some research this morning trying to find more info about the homeless man rumor when I ran across this on a blog.
If there is any truth to this it could lend a hand with what the crazy man was saying in his letters about DM trolling the area wearing a security shirt.
Could someone have thought they were seeing a security person? When intact it could have been DM trolling for Lauren outside the 5N appartment?
I don't think I ever heard the rumor about the security guard. If LS was intercepted by someone who appeared to be a uniformed guard or police officer, it would explain why JR decided against going down to see who it was. Do you know the source of the rumor about the security guard?
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Ibiz
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Yes, I found that here: http://legalpublication.blogspot.com/2011/06/lauren-spierer-disappearance-puzzles.html?m=1
Also, it appears to have been written on that date.
Ixchel13
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wow the comments go on forever, thanks for the link and your
very insightful input.
I'm thinking the bar mgr. is a POI.
The whole dark skinned guy thing sounds like a lie.
She is an eye witness to Lauren smacking her head hard.
She said she circled the block...
Was she visiting someone who knew Lauren?
She was there when Lauren hit her head, but who besides the mystery man was there?
Ixchel13
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:The theory or scenario you have just read is just an opinion or assumption: sound familiar? lol
The idea that the only admitted eyewitness to seeing Lauren
after she left the altercation besides the 5N POI could be somehow involved with Lauren's death is within the realm of possibility.
IF the bar manager worked at the same bar DM hung out at every Thursday, would that be a tie in?
also, another thing--LE has led us to believe that the 5N POI aren't exactly telling the truth; that JW, same/ And the eyewitness, as well. Or at least there's no evidence supporting/not supporting their claims.
Indirectly one way or another we have been led to believe that everyone is lying. So if what this bar mgr said she saw isn't supported by camera evidence, maybe she is simply lying about everything not just the time.
Did LE find this bar manager because she circled the block, coz that's how they found the white truck?
I have never believed she came forward willingly. It was said she came forward after hearing about Lauren being missing.
Alot is said about this person on other sites, blogs, etc.
Ixchel13
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That is so true. Since we are speculating, what if someone
were doing a drug deal, it would have to be fairly substantial--
maybe something from out of town being sold to a local.
This local gets off work from the bar and goes to an apt building to get these drugs. In and out, she cuts down an alley
and hits and/or runs over the near comatose Lauren.
But the driver recognizes the woman as the friend of the guy she just bought drugs from.
MB states in one of his stories that he called JR first when Lauren was still at his house. Doubting Thomas pointed out that JR might not, was probably not, home at that time.But just one minute away at 10th and C
He was probs down at 10th and C w. out of town guest.
When everything went bad this "witness" could have said, "I know someone bad who could help us, and this person is DM.
DM comes into the bar every Thursday.
There are several reasons I can think of why 5N POIs + even
JW would cover up and/or not cooperate. but have to work.
This scenario is for Akh, who wants to discuss how DM might fit into Lauren's case. if we are speculating and musing.
Yes, according to TonyGatto.com. he first reported it and then LE confirmed it:
http://tonygatto.com/2011/06/22/pol...-discount-mystery-man-in-lauren-spierer-case/
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It would explain more as well. After reading report after report saying that JR thought LS was intercepted by someone. The word "THOUGHT" really bothered me. But, if what he said was LS was intercepted by someone that I thought was a security officer, then all of sudden what he said would make sense.
When did this idea of him saying 'intercepted' come into the narrative? Isn't this a recent thing? I don't think it was ever in the original tellings and only happened in the last year or so when someone (PI? Reporter?) added that to a report. So it could've been a slip up telling us more than intended, an intentional leak, or even a mistake. Really, it's just more of the noise that infiltrates this case and confuses things more than helps. Who knows what is true and accurate at this point? It all just leads to speculating upon speculation unfortunately.
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Just re-watched the Garret blip--thanks Ros.
Noted:
He says MB was in the living room when LS and CR arrive. Remember the "I thought I heard burglars" story MB told? That version has MB arriving after those two.
^^this is what AbbeyR means by different stories being told.
Why would an expert FBI agent ignore the burglar version?
Were LS and CR trying to break in and Lauren was accidentally hurt? Hearing them trying to break in while in the living room would be a way to believe that version, but then he would be mentioning it that way I would imagine.
Garrett has Lauren and Corey stumbling, so Lauren is not unconcious, and Garrett also acknowledges that CR was helping Lauren because of the broken bricks, glass, etc.
People, this is true, IDK if anyone remembers I worked at 10th and C, the alley always has glass and rocks in it. No, not boulders and giant shards but always, always broken glass from bottles. And the vacant lot mentioned (not there now) was impossible, virtually impossible, to traverse w/o shoes unless you wanted to deeply lacerate your feet or get a broken ankle; these kids knew that.
IMO, Lauren was not unconscious when or if she arrived at 5N.
Also, if JR WAS watching Lauren go to the corner, why?
Why would watching her to the corner help? Unless JR knew someone was coming, and to that corner?
Did someone carry Lauren to the corner?
If you look at MB's photo, in Garrett's blip, he has a very dark tan--just sayin. Much darker complexion than JR or CR.
They always say, "dark-skinned man" not African American, so if this man exists, and I'm not so sure--IMO he is not African American, but some other dark-skinned person, be it another race or merely someone usually fairly dark complected but with a darker tan at that time.
We should go over the entire info LE put out, witnesses put out, and look for variations.
For instance, we assume, and I don't think rightly, that while all this was going on, JR remained in his apt., and MB did too. Or if MB left, it was just to go to JRs.
^^^doubtingthomas has brought this up, that JR probs left his apt
We assume, and I don't think rightly, that MB was sober and working on a paper all night.
We are left to assume that the out of town guest was just sleeping. Hey, a rich, red-blooded young guy visiting a college town in the middle of a huge party night has got to be up to something--what was it? And why is this guy continually getting a pass from public scrutiny?
Who is good at getting way down deep into legal injunctions?
Someone needs to find out if this guy's family filed some sort of gag or restraining order with BPD.
Because, IMO, this was the guy JR called last. Just wondering if he was "asleep" with another probable POI, ZC. Who was also "asleep" around the same time, when Lauren tried to get in, or contact, someone at that apt.
In trying to rehash the timeline and stories, I think it's wise to remember that these people were all in motion.
Yes, people were moving towards their final destinations for the night, but they weren't all compartmentalized in separate apts, some of them just had to have hooked up.
We assume JW was home, we assume HT was home, we assume ZO was home, but LE has viewed hours of cameras, and they don't believe these people are telling the truth, or at least they have hinted that stories don't match up.
Are we assuming the wrong people are lying?
Word games. When the IDS printed the story about Crazy guy saying "he helped a friend move a decomposing body
that was ran over and killed by her car " we aren't sure if
"he" means the crazy guy or DM. And people say "her" was a misprint, I don't think that.
I think the hit and run killer WAS a woman. Why would we assume that's a misprint?
Easy for LE to say, "it's a misprint" when we all know they will do that on purpose.
^^^We know LE uses the media and the public constantly with no apologies. And yet each time, we will feel hurt by it. lol
IDK in the foggiest what happened to Lauren, but that bar manager does know, IMO. And what was published, her account, is flawed not just because of the time, the whole thing is a lie, IMO, and LE does know this, IMO, but they don't want us to know.
put all my Sunday posts into one.:seeya::seeya:
Noted:
He says MB was in the living room when LS and CR arrive. Remember the "I thought I heard burglars" story MB told? That version has MB arriving after those two.
^^this is what AbbeyR means by different stories being told.
Why would an expert FBI agent ignore the burglar version?
Were LS and CR trying to break in and Lauren was accidentally hurt? Hearing them trying to break in while in the living room would be a way to believe that version, but then he would be mentioning it that way I would imagine.
Garrett has Lauren and Corey stumbling, so Lauren is not unconcious, and Garrett also acknowledges that CR was helping Lauren because of the broken bricks, glass, etc.
People, this is true, IDK if anyone remembers I worked at 10th and C, the alley always has glass and rocks in it. No, not boulders and giant shards but always, always broken glass from bottles. And the vacant lot mentioned (not there now) was impossible, virtually impossible, to traverse w/o shoes unless you wanted to deeply lacerate your feet or get a broken ankle; these kids knew that.
IMO, Lauren was not unconscious when or if she arrived at 5N.
Also, if JR WAS watching Lauren go to the corner, why?
Why would watching her to the corner help? Unless JR knew someone was coming, and to that corner?
Did someone carry Lauren to the corner?
If you look at MB's photo, in Garrett's blip, he has a very dark tan--just sayin. Much darker complexion than JR or CR.
They always say, "dark-skinned man" not African American, so if this man exists, and I'm not so sure--IMO he is not African American, but some other dark-skinned person, be it another race or merely someone usually fairly dark complected but with a darker tan at that time.
We should go over the entire info LE put out, witnesses put out, and look for variations.
For instance, we assume, and I don't think rightly, that while all this was going on, JR remained in his apt., and MB did too. Or if MB left, it was just to go to JRs.
^^^doubtingthomas has brought this up, that JR probs left his apt
We assume, and I don't think rightly, that MB was sober and working on a paper all night.
We are left to assume that the out of town guest was just sleeping. Hey, a rich, red-blooded young guy visiting a college town in the middle of a huge party night has got to be up to something--what was it? And why is this guy continually getting a pass from public scrutiny?
Who is good at getting way down deep into legal injunctions?
Someone needs to find out if this guy's family filed some sort of gag or restraining order with BPD.
Because, IMO, this was the guy JR called last. Just wondering if he was "asleep" with another probable POI, ZC. Who was also "asleep" around the same time, when Lauren tried to get in, or contact, someone at that apt.
In trying to rehash the timeline and stories, I think it's wise to remember that these people were all in motion.
Yes, people were moving towards their final destinations for the night, but they weren't all compartmentalized in separate apts, some of them just had to have hooked up.
We assume JW was home, we assume HT was home, we assume ZO was home, but LE has viewed hours of cameras, and they don't believe these people are telling the truth, or at least they have hinted that stories don't match up.
Are we assuming the wrong people are lying?
Word games. When the IDS printed the story about Crazy guy saying "he helped a friend move a decomposing body
that was ran over and killed by her car " we aren't sure if
"he" means the crazy guy or DM. And people say "her" was a misprint, I don't think that.
I think the hit and run killer WAS a woman. Why would we assume that's a misprint?
Easy for LE to say, "it's a misprint" when we all know they will do that on purpose.
^^^We know LE uses the media and the public constantly with no apologies. And yet each time, we will feel hurt by it. lol
IDK in the foggiest what happened to Lauren, but that bar manager does know, IMO. And what was published, her account, is flawed not just because of the time, the whole thing is a lie, IMO, and LE does know this, IMO, but they don't want us to know.
put all my Sunday posts into one.:seeya::seeya:
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