Mahouston69
Digital Imaging Specialist
So, did the altercation happen on her floor but in an apartment other than her own?
Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #34
- Thread starter bessie
- Start date
New Posts
-
Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #187
- Latest: photographer4
- Status
The altercation didn't happen in an apartment from what I understand, IIRC it was on her floor by the elevators.
The altercation has never made sense to me, and it probably never will, but IMO it has nothing to do w. Lauren's disappearance, other than that it is what led her to leave her OWN apartment complex w. CR, presumably heading to 5N, although the only verification we have of her actually getting there is MB and JR. If she was really as intoxicated as it seems, she certainly could have died in her own apartment, especially if she was alone and unattended, and we wouldn't be here today. But she didn't stay at her own apartment, even though ZO and crew were so concerned about her state that they physically assaulted CR for not helping her, yet for some reason they let her leave w. him. It makes no sense. I don't think this assault was ever about protecting Lauren and getting her home, or they would have actually made sure she got home. I don't think that means ZO and crew are involved in some grand conspiracy, it's more likely IMO they were trying to mitigate their criminal acts (trespass and assault) by portraying themselves as helping Lauren. The assault could have been about something completely unrelated to Lauren...maybe CR said something to ZO that pissed him off, who knows, they were all intoxicated and not acting rationally, and we'll never hear Lauren or CR's side of the story.
If anything, the altercation at SW makes 5N look guilty because Lauren's state completely calls into question MB's statements of Lauren wanting to party and her ability to leave JR's on her own accord. If she's tripping and falling, leaning up against a wall for support and being helped out of SW, and then carried by CR after stumbling more, it's hard to believe she was trying to party and able to walk back to SW alone later that night. She has no shoes or phone, a black eye that she doesn't know how she got (which MB never mentions), and she's trying to use an iPod as a cell phone, yet JR decides she's okay to go home alone. I agree some of their inconsistencies could have been do to bad reporting over the years, but I think there are some definite concerns w. their stories.
I forgot to mention earlier I'm really glad akh brought up that the police will have to show DM was not involved in Lauren's disappearance or the defense could use it at a potential trial to show doubt and introduce a suspect other than their client. I don't think DM is involved, but it's not impossible, just as an encounter w. JW or some garden variety opportunistic sex offender that isn't on anyone's radar. I think 5N's involvement is most likely, but if she made it out of 5N like JR says, the possibilities of what happened to her are endless
The altercation has never made sense to me, and it probably never will, but IMO it has nothing to do w. Lauren's disappearance, other than that it is what led her to leave her OWN apartment complex w. CR, presumably heading to 5N, although the only verification we have of her actually getting there is MB and JR. If she was really as intoxicated as it seems, she certainly could have died in her own apartment, especially if she was alone and unattended, and we wouldn't be here today. But she didn't stay at her own apartment, even though ZO and crew were so concerned about her state that they physically assaulted CR for not helping her, yet for some reason they let her leave w. him. It makes no sense. I don't think this assault was ever about protecting Lauren and getting her home, or they would have actually made sure she got home. I don't think that means ZO and crew are involved in some grand conspiracy, it's more likely IMO they were trying to mitigate their criminal acts (trespass and assault) by portraying themselves as helping Lauren. The assault could have been about something completely unrelated to Lauren...maybe CR said something to ZO that pissed him off, who knows, they were all intoxicated and not acting rationally, and we'll never hear Lauren or CR's side of the story.
If anything, the altercation at SW makes 5N look guilty because Lauren's state completely calls into question MB's statements of Lauren wanting to party and her ability to leave JR's on her own accord. If she's tripping and falling, leaning up against a wall for support and being helped out of SW, and then carried by CR after stumbling more, it's hard to believe she was trying to party and able to walk back to SW alone later that night. She has no shoes or phone, a black eye that she doesn't know how she got (which MB never mentions), and she's trying to use an iPod as a cell phone, yet JR decides she's okay to go home alone. I agree some of their inconsistencies could have been do to bad reporting over the years, but I think there are some definite concerns w. their stories.
I forgot to mention earlier I'm really glad akh brought up that the police will have to show DM was not involved in Lauren's disappearance or the defense could use it at a potential trial to show doubt and introduce a suspect other than their client. I don't think DM is involved, but it's not impossible, just as an encounter w. JW or some garden variety opportunistic sex offender that isn't on anyone's radar. I think 5N's involvement is most likely, but if she made it out of 5N like JR says, the possibilities of what happened to her are endless
I tend to agree with this possibility.
But at least one other possibility exists, what if some of them involved were friends of JW? Would their concern then really be about LS and seeing that she got home safely and to bed, or would it be their concern was in getting CR away from their friend's girlfriend?
Even letting him know where she was, what she was doing, or where she was headed.
And then when looked at in that light, does that then give them reason not only to tell the story they did to deflect blame for the altercation (and offer a noble excuse) but also to paint the picture in such a way to cast doubt on CR (and ultimately 5N) in LS's appearance (and away from JW)?
As we're both saying, the altercation itself doesn't make sense as it's described. And if they aren't truthful there, then why should we believe the rest of the story verbatim?
In any case, the altercation helped no one and just served to make matters worse.
One last point and then I need to get to bed...
Why the secrecy from LE and PI's about the 2nd phone call from JR's phone (and to who was called) yet not the first call? Did LS' roommate spill the beans about the first call to the press and the police went ahead and admitted to it rather than walking it back or not commenting on it? They did comment on it didn't they (or is the admitted call simply via reporting and not officially confirmed)? I guess I've forgotten.
Why the secrecy from LE and PI's about the 2nd phone call from JR's phone (and to who was called) yet not the first call? Did LS' roommate spill the beans about the first call to the press and the police went ahead and admitted to it rather than walking it back or not commenting on it? They did comment on it didn't they (or is the admitted call simply via reporting and not officially confirmed)? I guess I've forgotten.
I think DR was probably the source of information about the first call, and that he was probably the only one who came forward to talk to LE. The PIs were the ones who confirmed that call and reported a second call. What does not make sense to me is why JR would try twice to get someone to come to his place and escort her home when he could have done so himself in about the same amount of time.
I agree with Ros IIRC DR was the one that gave the information about JR trying to call him. My guess is the reason they aren't giving info about the second call is because that person is either unrelated and they've already verified that, or it was to one of the un-named POIs that LE haven't released. Maybe they would have done the same with DR's call had he not come forth himself, but once he did there would be no reason not to confirm it. I think DR was the only cooperative one from the beginning.
I agree that JR's call to DR is interesting. Maybe he is telling the truth, but it makes no sense why he would call DR at 4am to come get Lauren and then let her leave by herself when he can't get ahold of him. However, didnt JR at some point say that the calls to DR were made by Lauren to try and find her phone? Regardless of the reasoning, there was a lot of effort made by JR to get Lauren home and help her find her stuff (according to him) but then no effort made to actually get her home safely once he failed to arrange a ride or get in touch with DR.
If JR and MB are telling the truth and Lauren refused to stay at their apartments, and wanted to get back to SW so badly she was willing to walk alone at 4am with no shoes or phone, she clearly wasn't afraid to go back, so it calls into question the theory that she was leaving SW confused and in fear. What was her purpose for leaving SW then? That's the million dollar question I guess...but IMO she wouldn't be willing to go back to a place she was "fleeing from" an hour before. Again, that assumes JR was telling the truth Lauren was able to make decisions on her own after leaving SW.
I think the reason we have so much difficulty finding answers of what happened to her is that the only info we after she leaves SW comes from JR and MB, and can't be verified because Lauren is missing and CR has amnesia. No one can verify that they were the last people to see Lauren, but they both claim to have seen her after CR passed out. Why do that unless you have to...both could have claimed they were sleeping like JW and DR and most people and had no idea what CR and Lauren were up to. They could have left CR to do the explaining, but instead they gave him an alibi and brought suspicion on themselves. Either they did it because its the truth or for some reason they had to. I'd have a lot easier time believing their stories were the truth if they were consistent and made sense, but they don't. IMO, they put themselves in the positions they did because if they didn't, someone else was going to, or some piece of evidence was going to show they were with her, and they'd look like they were hiding something.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree that JR's call to DR is interesting. Maybe he is telling the truth, but it makes no sense why he would call DR at 4am to come get Lauren and then let her leave by herself when he can't get ahold of him. However, didnt JR at some point say that the calls to DR were made by Lauren to try and find her phone? Regardless of the reasoning, there was a lot of effort made by JR to get Lauren home and help her find her stuff (according to him) but then no effort made to actually get her home safely once he failed to arrange a ride or get in touch with DR.
If JR and MB are telling the truth and Lauren refused to stay at their apartments, and wanted to get back to SW so badly she was willing to walk alone at 4am with no shoes or phone, she clearly wasn't afraid to go back, so it calls into question the theory that she was leaving SW confused and in fear. What was her purpose for leaving SW then? That's the million dollar question I guess...but IMO she wouldn't be willing to go back to a place she was "fleeing from" an hour before. Again, that assumes JR was telling the truth Lauren was able to make decisions on her own after leaving SW.
I think the reason we have so much difficulty finding answers of what happened to her is that the only info we after she leaves SW comes from JR and MB, and can't be verified because Lauren is missing and CR has amnesia. No one can verify that they were the last people to see Lauren, but they both claim to have seen her after CR passed out. Why do that unless you have to...both could have claimed they were sleeping like JW and DR and most people and had no idea what CR and Lauren were up to. They could have left CR to do the explaining, but instead they gave him an alibi and brought suspicion on themselves. Either they did it because its the truth or for some reason they had to. I'd have a lot easier time believing their stories were the truth if they were consistent and made sense, but they don't. IMO, they put themselves in the positions they did because if they didn't, someone else was going to, or some piece of evidence was going to show they were with her, and they'd look like they were hiding something.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
"If JR and MB are telling the truth and Lauren refused to stay at their apartments, and wanted to get back to SW so badly she was willing to walk alone at 4am with no shoes or phone, she clearly wasn't afraid to go back, so it calls into question the theory that she was leaving SW confused and in fear. What was her purpose for leaving SW then?"
Quoted by me from Stephsb:
It doesn't call into question that theory at all.
From the moment she got to 5N after leaving the altercation, she repeatedly said she wanted to go home according to MB and JR.
She was intoxicated, not paralyzed. She could feel panic and fear for herself and CR then, and still want to go home later.
LE might have suspicions about an OD, they have admitted there were drugs. But both LE and the private investigators have said that Lauren was not unconscious and was moving around as they made their way up to 5N!
This is not the heaved over a shoulder description of the mystery man.
LE and PIs describe CR as carrying her piggy back. PIs describe Laurens arms over CRs shoulders. They describe
falling, getting back up, pushing and pulling.
They do not have Lauren on tape falling and smacking her head at the time the witness, the only admitted eyewitness, says it happened. They have Lauren falling on tape, but not that fall.
I think the altercation has everything to do with Lauren's disappearance!
It wasn't a big conspiracy, it was a snowball effect. I don't think any of them started out to hurt Lauren or attack CR but
things mushroomed.
Once the shtf, then yes, a conspiracy of silence did ensue.
Stories were gotten straight finally and then nothing.
Want to add, it is even more unbelievable that they would let Lauren go home unescorted and not make sure she was safely escorted home after the violence unless they knew
she was being released into the care of someone.
People keep asking, why would JR insert himself into the narrative if he didn't have to?
Within his story he protects MB who is protecting CR who won't admit to anyone stalking them, including ZO. He is also protecting DB, by being awake so he can swear that DB was asleep! (not so with JW and roomies).
JR also protects someone else if he knowswhat happened to Lauren by saying, she simply walked out and may/may not have crossed paths with someone at the corner. He's not telling on anyone nor backing anyone up at that point, sink or swim. So everyone has a job to do in that narrative.
Quoted by me from Stephsb:
It doesn't call into question that theory at all.
From the moment she got to 5N after leaving the altercation, she repeatedly said she wanted to go home according to MB and JR.
She was intoxicated, not paralyzed. She could feel panic and fear for herself and CR then, and still want to go home later.
LE might have suspicions about an OD, they have admitted there were drugs. But both LE and the private investigators have said that Lauren was not unconscious and was moving around as they made their way up to 5N!
This is not the heaved over a shoulder description of the mystery man.
LE and PIs describe CR as carrying her piggy back. PIs describe Laurens arms over CRs shoulders. They describe
falling, getting back up, pushing and pulling.
They do not have Lauren on tape falling and smacking her head at the time the witness, the only admitted eyewitness, says it happened. They have Lauren falling on tape, but not that fall.
I think the altercation has everything to do with Lauren's disappearance!
It wasn't a big conspiracy, it was a snowball effect. I don't think any of them started out to hurt Lauren or attack CR but
things mushroomed.
Once the shtf, then yes, a conspiracy of silence did ensue.
Stories were gotten straight finally and then nothing.
Want to add, it is even more unbelievable that they would let Lauren go home unescorted and not make sure she was safely escorted home after the violence unless they knew
she was being released into the care of someone.
People keep asking, why would JR insert himself into the narrative if he didn't have to?
Within his story he protects MB who is protecting CR who won't admit to anyone stalking them, including ZO. He is also protecting DB, by being awake so he can swear that DB was asleep! (not so with JW and roomies).
JR also protects someone else if he knowswhat happened to Lauren by saying, she simply walked out and may/may not have crossed paths with someone at the corner. He's not telling on anyone nor backing anyone up at that point, sink or swim. So everyone has a job to do in that narrative.
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
Trying to get permission for a thread to discuss the possibility:
What if Lauren left 5N? And could DM factor in?
Today was a cold and rainy Bloomington morning and I had to drop someone off very near 9th and Fess where JW and frat bros lived.
I drove to the corner of 9th and Fess, then to Yogis- 1.5 blocks.
Yogis to 10th and C-4.5 blocks
11th and College to 9th and Fess-4.5 blocks
Yogis is on 10th
Kilroys is right there on 9th and Walnut; from straight down 9th you can get to Fess in 4 blocks. So from Kilroys to JW's,
only 4 blocks.
JW lives 4 blocks from Kilroys and 2 blocks from Yogis.
DM hung out at Yogis on a particular night. Yes, it was trivia but also Thirsty Thursday, when students drink the most.
JW and bros lived around the corner!
The chances that DM and JW et al saw one another at Yogis on Thursdays are very high, and also the chance he saw Lauren is high. Because that's where he saw Hannah. Like JW, Hannah lived in the neighborhood.
Lauren received a PI as have many of her friends.
It is very possible that DM had witnessed Hannah and her friends, and Lauren and her friends in varied states of inebriation at Yogis.
I think we should enlarge the crime scene area to include Yogis and surrounding area as it relates to the 10th and College/Kilroys/5N/SW maps.
But I don't know how to do that! TIA anyone! Chuz Life?
A jarring question could be, was JW coming for Lauren, but she was intercepted in these same 4 blocks somewhere? By a predator that knew these alleyways and byways as somewhere he had employed to coerce inebriated females
into his vehicle?
Was Lauren accidentally run down by someone? Someone who managed the bar that DM hung out at every Thursday?
If we attempt to connect DM to Lauren, he has to fit in there somehow.
If DM knew the bar witness, for example, IMO that would be enough of a connection to at least raise an eyebrow.
Also, isn't there still a woman, Kate Markham, who is still missing from around the area DM lived? Or it could be a Katelyn.
With DM we may be dealing with a serial killer. Do not rule out Kentucky, if he was over in Terre Haute at the GBLT bars, he could also be down in Louisville, and then Cincinnati/Covington
So it could also be missing men.
And as Akh says, he has to be right in there as a top suspect, IMO.
Anyway, it's true that evidence points to Lauren was falling down, incoherent at times, she was inebriated.
Could something other than an OD and removal happen to Lauren?
Is there something concerning Lauren that the POIs want to hide, yet they didn't disappear her?
In the thread I would like to discuss this Yogis/Kilroys/5N/9th and Fess, etc.
What if Lauren left 5N? And could DM factor in?
Today was a cold and rainy Bloomington morning and I had to drop someone off very near 9th and Fess where JW and frat bros lived.
I drove to the corner of 9th and Fess, then to Yogis- 1.5 blocks.
Yogis to 10th and C-4.5 blocks
11th and College to 9th and Fess-4.5 blocks
Yogis is on 10th
Kilroys is right there on 9th and Walnut; from straight down 9th you can get to Fess in 4 blocks. So from Kilroys to JW's,
only 4 blocks.
JW lives 4 blocks from Kilroys and 2 blocks from Yogis.
DM hung out at Yogis on a particular night. Yes, it was trivia but also Thirsty Thursday, when students drink the most.
JW and bros lived around the corner!
The chances that DM and JW et al saw one another at Yogis on Thursdays are very high, and also the chance he saw Lauren is high. Because that's where he saw Hannah. Like JW, Hannah lived in the neighborhood.
Lauren received a PI as have many of her friends.
It is very possible that DM had witnessed Hannah and her friends, and Lauren and her friends in varied states of inebriation at Yogis.
I think we should enlarge the crime scene area to include Yogis and surrounding area as it relates to the 10th and College/Kilroys/5N/SW maps.
But I don't know how to do that! TIA anyone! Chuz Life?
A jarring question could be, was JW coming for Lauren, but she was intercepted in these same 4 blocks somewhere? By a predator that knew these alleyways and byways as somewhere he had employed to coerce inebriated females
into his vehicle?
Was Lauren accidentally run down by someone? Someone who managed the bar that DM hung out at every Thursday?
If we attempt to connect DM to Lauren, he has to fit in there somehow.
If DM knew the bar witness, for example, IMO that would be enough of a connection to at least raise an eyebrow.
Also, isn't there still a woman, Kate Markham, who is still missing from around the area DM lived? Or it could be a Katelyn.
With DM we may be dealing with a serial killer. Do not rule out Kentucky, if he was over in Terre Haute at the GBLT bars, he could also be down in Louisville, and then Cincinnati/Covington
So it could also be missing men.
And as Akh says, he has to be right in there as a top suspect, IMO.
Anyway, it's true that evidence points to Lauren was falling down, incoherent at times, she was inebriated.
Could something other than an OD and removal happen to Lauren?
Is there something concerning Lauren that the POIs want to hide, yet they didn't disappear her?
In the thread I would like to discuss this Yogis/Kilroys/5N/9th and Fess, etc.
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
Trying to get permission for a thread to discuss the possibility:
What if Lauren left 5N? And could DM factor in?
Today was a cold and rainy Bloomington morning and I had to drop someone off very near 9th and Fess where JW and frat bros lived.
I drove to the corner of 9th and Fess, then to Yogis- 1.5 blocks.
Yogis to 10th and C-4.5 blocks
11th and College to 9th and Fess-4.5 blocks
Yogis is on 10th
Kilroys is right there on 9th and Walnut; from straight down 9th you can get to 9th and Fess in 4 blocks. So from Kilroys to JW's,
only 4 blocks.
JW lives 4 blocks from Kilroys and 2 blocks from Yogis.
DM hung out at Yogis on a particular night. Yes, it was trivia but also Thirsty Thursday, when students drink the most.
JW and bros lived around the corner!
The chances that DM and JW et al saw one another at Yogis on Thursdays are very high, and also the chance he saw Lauren is high. Because that's where he saw Hannah. Like JW, Hannah lived in the neighborhood.
Lauren received a PI as have many of her friends.
It is very possible that DM had witnessed Hannah and her friends, and Lauren and her friends in varied states of inebriation at Yogis.
I think we should enlarge the crime scene area to include Yogis and surrounding area as it relates to the 10th and College/Kilroys/5N/SW maps.
But I don't know how to do that! TIA anyone! Chuz Life?
A jarring question could be, was JW coming for Lauren, but she was intercepted in these same 4 blocks somewhere? By a predator that knew these alleyways and byways as somewhere he had employed to coerce inebriated females
into his vehicle?
Was Lauren accidentally run down by someone? Someone who managed the bar that DM hung out at every Thursday?
If we attempt to connect DM to Lauren, he has to fit in there somehow.
If DM knew the bar witness, for example, IMO that would be enough of a connection to at least raise an eyebrow.
Also, isn't there still a woman, Kate Markham, who is still missing from around the area DM lived? Or it could be a Katelyn.
With DM we may be dealing with a serial killer. Do not rule out Kentucky, if he was over in Terre Haute at the GBLT bars, he could also be down in Louisville, and then Cincinnati/Covington
So it could also be missing men.
And as Akh says, he has to be right in there as a top suspect, IMO.
Anyway, it's true that evidence points to Lauren was falling down, incoherent at times, she was inebriated.
Could something other than an OD and removal happen to Lauren?
Is there something concerning Lauren that the POIs want to hide, yet they didn't disappear her?
In the thread I would like to discuss this Yogis/Kilroys/5N/9th and Fess, etc.
What if Lauren left 5N? And could DM factor in?
Today was a cold and rainy Bloomington morning and I had to drop someone off very near 9th and Fess where JW and frat bros lived.
I drove to the corner of 9th and Fess, then to Yogis- 1.5 blocks.
Yogis to 10th and C-4.5 blocks
11th and College to 9th and Fess-4.5 blocks
Yogis is on 10th
Kilroys is right there on 9th and Walnut; from straight down 9th you can get to 9th and Fess in 4 blocks. So from Kilroys to JW's,
only 4 blocks.
JW lives 4 blocks from Kilroys and 2 blocks from Yogis.
DM hung out at Yogis on a particular night. Yes, it was trivia but also Thirsty Thursday, when students drink the most.
JW and bros lived around the corner!
The chances that DM and JW et al saw one another at Yogis on Thursdays are very high, and also the chance he saw Lauren is high. Because that's where he saw Hannah. Like JW, Hannah lived in the neighborhood.
Lauren received a PI as have many of her friends.
It is very possible that DM had witnessed Hannah and her friends, and Lauren and her friends in varied states of inebriation at Yogis.
I think we should enlarge the crime scene area to include Yogis and surrounding area as it relates to the 10th and College/Kilroys/5N/SW maps.
But I don't know how to do that! TIA anyone! Chuz Life?
A jarring question could be, was JW coming for Lauren, but she was intercepted in these same 4 blocks somewhere? By a predator that knew these alleyways and byways as somewhere he had employed to coerce inebriated females
into his vehicle?
Was Lauren accidentally run down by someone? Someone who managed the bar that DM hung out at every Thursday?
If we attempt to connect DM to Lauren, he has to fit in there somehow.
If DM knew the bar witness, for example, IMO that would be enough of a connection to at least raise an eyebrow.
Also, isn't there still a woman, Kate Markham, who is still missing from around the area DM lived? Or it could be a Katelyn.
With DM we may be dealing with a serial killer. Do not rule out Kentucky, if he was over in Terre Haute at the GBLT bars, he could also be down in Louisville, and then Cincinnati/Covington
So it could also be missing men.
And as Akh says, he has to be right in there as a top suspect, IMO.
Anyway, it's true that evidence points to Lauren was falling down, incoherent at times, she was inebriated.
Could something other than an OD and removal happen to Lauren?
Is there something concerning Lauren that the POIs want to hide, yet they didn't disappear her?
In the thread I would like to discuss this Yogis/Kilroys/5N/9th and Fess, etc.
Kate McGrayel was the woman missing in Brown County. Her remains were found: http://www.wthr.com/story/22082569/brown-co-remains-identified-as-missing-nashville-woman
Katelyn Markham was missing from Cincinnati; her remains were also found.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Katelyn Markham was missing from Cincinnati; her remains were also found.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Katelyn Markham's body was found but no one has been charged, her fiancé has always been the prime suspect and definitely looks good for the crime. Katelyn lived in Fairfield, Ohio, but was found over state lines on the direct route to her a home owned by her fiance's family.
I think it's a huge leap to consider DM a serial killer,l at this point. Serial killers who elude suspicion for long periods of time w.o raising suspicion are usually organized offenders. Nothing about DM says organized, he left his cell phone by Hannah's body and was found extremely fast. Disorganized serial killers usually don't try to hide the body and will kill whichever way is available, like DM, but they almost always act w. Extreme violence and rage, leave behind really violent crime scenes and are sexually motivated. Also, I'm not sure I've ever heart of a serial killer going after college girls and gay men. They are the kind of killers that are looking for a "type" and a lot of them are sexually motivated- they aren't going to flip between straight women and gay men.
Obviously not all serial killers fit the norm, but the more variables and what ifs you have to introduce to prove your theory, the less likely it is to be the truth. If more bodies can be connected to DM, I will be on board with making him a prime suspect. Until then, I'll try and let the evidence guide me.
Lastly, if Lauren was intercepted while meeting JW, wouldn't he be expecting her and report her missing already that night?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think it's a huge leap to consider DM a serial killer,l at this point. Serial killers who elude suspicion for long periods of time w.o raising suspicion are usually organized offenders. Nothing about DM says organized, he left his cell phone by Hannah's body and was found extremely fast. Disorganized serial killers usually don't try to hide the body and will kill whichever way is available, like DM, but they almost always act w. Extreme violence and rage, leave behind really violent crime scenes and are sexually motivated. Also, I'm not sure I've ever heart of a serial killer going after college girls and gay men. They are the kind of killers that are looking for a "type" and a lot of them are sexually motivated- they aren't going to flip between straight women and gay men.
Obviously not all serial killers fit the norm, but the more variables and what ifs you have to introduce to prove your theory, the less likely it is to be the truth. If more bodies can be connected to DM, I will be on board with making him a prime suspect. Until then, I'll try and let the evidence guide me.
Lastly, if Lauren was intercepted while meeting JW, wouldn't he be expecting her and report her missing already that night?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
thanks Ros. DM reportedly told someone that he dumped a passed out woman in a yard. KM was found on her property.
She would have to hike there. Or someone knew she lived there.
<modsnip>
For all we know, Hannah Wilson wasn't supposed to be in that field, it could be possible that she escaped from DMs car and ran. Or was attacked by DM on route to somewhere more remote because she fought him, as BSL has confessed happened with Mickey Shunick.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
first I'll say it: Yes and No. There could be a mutual distrust: JW thinking JR did something to Lauren; JR thinking JW met up and did away with Lauren. And yet they were in the middle of a business deal.
"Also, I'm not sure I've ever heart[sic] of a serial killer going after college girls and gay men."
quoting stephsb.
They are not saying Hannah was sexually abused. But bludgeoned in the head. DM attacked his grandma brutally in the head. He attacked another woman, non-sexually, in a bar and beat her almost to death, in the head.
Last eye witness to admit seeing Lauren alive says she had a
head injury.
So many times, serial killers of women have a hatred towards women stemming from their upbringing, bad or good.
Freud may say it always is, but I don't think every motive has a sexual twist.
I could fathom a serial killer who killed both men and women, actually the Dating Game Killer Rodney Alcala is suspected of doing this because they found a bunch of photos of people
who may have been his victims, male and female.
Wasn't there a road closing on the route he took the body? I was thinking I read somewhere that it appeared the closing forced his hand on where he left the body.
As for losing his phone, things happen. I'm sure he was freaked when he noticed his phone missing, which could've been hours later, but what was he going to do? Go back to the scene of the crime and implicate himself? And how is he to know that is where it was lost and not someplace else that night?
I'm not sure where the gay men entered the picture in your comments. So I must've missed something on that point.
Serial killers have to have a first victim and we don't know if HM was DM's first murder victim or not. She certainly wasn't his first victim of violence. And if not for the phone, how do we know if he'd ever be connected to the crime? From the outside looking in, he'd be so far off the radar that he wouldn't have to be too careful not to get caught because nobody would be looking his way in the first place. Would that be any different if he was in fact an abductor of LS?
But regardless, at least he was caught and it sounds like he will spend his life behind bars.
On another point that someone brought up a few posts back, and has been brought up a few times over the years: Finger pointing. There seems to be some idea that nobody is implicating anyone else. I'm not sure we can say that. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if everyone was implicating the others to some degree. Whether it's a direct accusations or questions, or simply refusing to 100% alibi someone unless it's truly a 100% factual alibi.
Didn't one of the attorneys early on toss out a comment or two that tried to point suspicion away from their guy onto other(s)?
I imagine that's exactly what it's like behind the scenes too. It's just that LE isn't sharing that info and nobody is talking publicly.
Obviously, that's just speculation but I tend to think it's more like that than everyone alibiing each other in some far reaching conspiracy. It's just we aren't privy to that type of info to know who is pointing fingers and to where.
IOW, anyone not directly involved would share any questions about anybody they might have (just to deflect even the chance of suspicion on themselves). Obviously, anyone directly involved would stick to their official stories. The question is just how likely is it that it's nearly everyone that would be involved?
I read the recent news report about the girl that is on the People Mag cover currently and it just seems that is the total opposite tactic compared to LE in the LS case. In that case, they decided to go public to try and shake the bushes rather than playing everything close to the vest (as it is in the LS case).
As I recall, BPD went rather quickly from sharing information with the public to keeping mum. I have wondered if they did so because they have a strong suspicion about what happened but not enough evidence for a case, and they fear that the public could do more harm than good.
doubtingthomas
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2011
- Messages
- 212
- Reaction score
- -2
This has probably been brought up before but I thought I would revisit it.
http://www.macombdaily.com/article/MD/20130817/NEWS01/130819496
Rosenbaums business partner, David Bleznak, a University of Michigan graduate, was present in Bloomington with Rosenbaum at the time Spierer disappeared
The night of June 2, Spierer met up with Rossman and they began partying at Rosenbaums apartment, a get-together Rosenbaum was holding in honor of his best-friend Bleznaks visit to town.
In his statement to police, Rosenbaum said he talked with Spierer for a little bit while Bleznak was sleeping in the other room.
So you drive from MI to Btown to party with your business partner who is hosting a party in your honor and your asleep at 3am. Really? LS didn't show up until midnight. Then they went out. And 3 hours later you are asleep while your host is still up?
What's wrong with this picture?
http://www.macombdaily.com/article/MD/20130817/NEWS01/130819496
Rosenbaums business partner, David Bleznak, a University of Michigan graduate, was present in Bloomington with Rosenbaum at the time Spierer disappeared
The night of June 2, Spierer met up with Rossman and they began partying at Rosenbaums apartment, a get-together Rosenbaum was holding in honor of his best-friend Bleznaks visit to town.
In his statement to police, Rosenbaum said he talked with Spierer for a little bit while Bleznak was sleeping in the other room.
So you drive from MI to Btown to party with your business partner who is hosting a party in your honor and your asleep at 3am. Really? LS didn't show up until midnight. Then they went out. And 3 hours later you are asleep while your host is still up?
What's wrong with this picture?
I don't know how reliable that article/ source is (it seems there are a few questionable statements that are written as fact), but here's the complete sentence that was clipped above:
I'm wondering if this was really in his statement to police - If so, it is yet another source that suggests that JR/ MB changed their story about who used the phone and why. But how would the journalist know what was in the statement to police, I wonder?
If Bleznak went out to the bar after JR's, I might agree that it's odd that he went straight to sleep, but who knows. Maybe he drank too much and passed out. There was some suggestion at some point that he wasn't even there, but from an unreliable source. I'm interested in where his car was and whether it was ever searched.
I'm wondering if this was really in his statement to police - If so, it is yet another source that suggests that JR/ MB changed their story about who used the phone and why. But how would the journalist know what was in the statement to police, I wonder?
If Bleznak went out to the bar after JR's, I might agree that it's odd that he went straight to sleep, but who knows. Maybe he drank too much and passed out. There was some suggestion at some point that he wasn't even there, but from an unreliable source. I'm interested in where his car was and whether it was ever searched.
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
if we assume that JR might be covering up something, there's no reason to believe his statement about his guest is true.
IOW, there's just as much a chance DB was awake as he was asleep, IMO. And, he could have been asleep somewhere else; and could have been the guy JR supposedly called last.
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
Before I go any further, a few questions:
If we established a close business relationship between
JR, DB, and JW, would that be a motive to alibi/cover for
one another?
- Status