IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #34

[akh]

I missed the video at that link. It didn't autoplay and wouldn't play in Chrome for some reason. I thought it was just a photo until I saw the video mentioned here. It did play in Firefox. So just in case anyone was in the same boat as me, there is a video at that link as well as the printed article.

 

[imkeylime]

This article seems pieced together from past reports and talking to experts (not a direct interview with authorities, etc). So, while it could be a a piece of the puzzle that has been kept under wraps and finally leaked after all this time, it also could be someone (mis)remembering past reports and confusing some speculation with fact.

And if it is true, 'intercepted' doesn't have to mean he thought something nefarious was happening. Considering how the PI's described MB making LS someone else's problem, JR could've thought she'd ran into a friend so he could've been glad she'd found someone or even glad to see she was someone else's problem.

Further, if this piece of the puzzle is accurate, it could very well be that LE believed it, or at the least didn't want that to be public information. It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn there are significant pieces like this that have been kept from the public but known to investigators all along.

Interesting that the Spierers are refusing to talk about the appeal when during the initial hearings on the case they probably did much to damage it with their statements to the media IMHO.

One thing I do agree with is that we can't get into JR's head at this point. While I sincerely hope my children would never do what he ADMITTED to doing (let her leave intoxicated without shoes or cell and not intercede when he saw someone in the shadows), we don't know exactly what went down that night. It's even possible that he made advances on her and kicked her out when she rebuffed him. Regardless of everything else, his actions definitely make me question his character at that point, whether he was wasted or sober.

 

[monkey222]

Well this is certainly interesting new info for us to ponder. So if JR saw her being intercepted in the shadows by someone, AND being ok with this (this is my speculation as if one is watching someone to see they are safe..for lack of better words...one would think that a shadowed interception is not too good) then perhaps JR knew that other partygoers from that night meaning his aquaintances, out of towners would have been out and about and so she was "safe"..by the shadowed intercepter. This is my thought only, just trying to weave this new info into what we know.

 

[bessie]

Rather convenient that this "someone" happened to be "in the shadows". So, of course, JR couldn't possibly give a description. And what exactly does "intercepted" mean? Someone asking directions of an inebriated, stumbling young woman at 4:30 A.M.? I'd better stop before I have to give myself a TO.

Rosenbaum says that Lauren decided to leave, and he watched from his small balcony as she walked to the corner of 11th and North College. He told investigators that he thought he saw someone in the shadows intercept her.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/solve-mystery-lauren-spierer/story?id=30148388

 

[imkeylime]

Well this is certainly interesting new info for us to ponder. So if JR saw her being intercepted in the shadows by someone, AND being ok with this (this is my speculation as if one is watching someone to see they are safe..for lack of better words...one would think that a shadowed interception is not too good) then perhaps JR knew that other partygoers from that night meaning his aquaintances, out of towners would have been out and about and so she was "safe"..by the shadowed intercepter. This is my thought only, just trying to weave this new info into what we know.

Whether we believe him or not, it makes sense to analyze the situation. So JR could obviously be lying (my guess) and is getting desperate in his attempt to separate himself from the situation ... or perhaps he did share this information earlier but we weren't privy to it. We've seen articles in MI newspapers that question his character, so the speculation obviously affects his life to some degree. If he's not lying, could it be that he suspects who the "someone" was but is protecting that person. All I have to say is poor Lauren. Either way you look at it, no one had her back that night.

 

[Ixchel13]

Also, what do you all think about this coming from JR?

"Rosenbaum says that Lauren decided to leave, and he watched from his small balcony as she walked to the corner of 11th and North College. He told investigators that he thought he saw someone in the shadows intercept her. Lauren was never seen again, and surveillance cameras never captured any images of her on the route home."

I don't recall ever hearing that JR thought he saw someone in the shadows intercept LS. I wonder when he first made this statement. If true, it would be a game changer. But ... why didn't he do something about it at the time? Who thinks that a young woman who recently left your apartment was intercepted in the shadows and then just goes to bed? Is this something that he thinks in retrospect (that someone pulled LS into the shadows)?

it does make sense if he knew who was doing the interception but doesn't want to name that person. Later on, he could name that person if he had to.

 

[imkeylime]

Rather convenient that this "someone" happened to be "in the shadows". So, of course, JR couldn't possibly give a description. And what exactly does "intercepted" mean? Someone asking directions of an inebriated, stumbling young woman at 4:30 A.M.? I'd better stop before I have to give myself a TO.



http://abcnews.go.com/US/solve-mystery-lauren-spierer/story?id=30148388

Yes, it's infuriating! Both you and akh make me wonder why he'd use the word "intercepted." It's such an odd word choice ... footballs should get intercepted, not young women. It definitely implies more that just seeing someone lurking in the shadows. And yes, it's definitely convenient, just like CR's amnesia.

 

[Ixchel13]

let's breakdown the narrative for reasons why they said what they did. Because, if the "only" crime was that they hid Lauren's body after an OD, everything would still have to be orchestrated.
So, I'm going to assume the POIs are lying. A first example would be, "why would
JR say that Lauren mistook his Ipod for a phone?" It seems like he is trying to give an example of how inebriated she was...this is how it was taken by the public.
But, to make his story work, to make his apt. the last place she was and that she left on her own, he has to prove she was there..she was there, earlier in the evening, before she was supposedly there at the end. So, her fingerprints are on his IPod.
IMO, his apt was not the last place she was. But, if the POIs want a clean staging area for their story, his apt, with evidence that Lauren was there, would be the perfect place to use for the narrative. Just in case any forensic evidence that may have remained from hiding her, he threw in the remark that he asked her how she
was injured. So if any traces were picked up in his apt, he could say it was from that, for example.
Did I say I'm just speculating? Another bit of seemingly useless info is MB's famous paper due. Like, who cares what he was doing? Does it really matter?
And, the part about putting his friend to bed.
Two things. It places him out of the room Lauren was in. And people, lots of students, snort stuff like adderall and vyvanse to "help" them study. Parents get the prescriptions for them! Who was one of the first people to chime in when people didn't believe MBs story? His mom!
If it were found out that Lauren OD'd on his adderrall/vyvanse/whatever, it gives
MB a way out--he was upstairs and she got into his studying medications without his permission. Remember he said she asked him if he wanted to party. Placing the blame on her.
The person intercepting her in the shadows may be exactly why JW is a POI. In his recent statement, JR may be underlining that for JW. Yes, they may be fraying
a bit because despite many people calling for a respite as to blaming the POIs, people aren't going along with it.
What other bits of info in the narrative could be indicators? The out of town guest tweeting from the Runcible Spoon. He was probably well out of town when someone tweeted that. If these very rich "kids" had help from the beginning from outside (re)sources, the first thing they would probably say is, get the body out of town and trust no one out of the loop. So, as Ros pointed out, what drunk kid could hide her so well here that locals looking for four years couldn't find her?
The tweet placed him innocently having breakfast, with the need to tweet about the corned beef? These guys were in the tech biz. Giving his phone to someone
would probably not place him out of the phone circuit, he most likely has more than one. I'm guessing that someone else tweeted that.

 

[imkeylime]

it does make sense if he knew who was doing the interception but doesn't want to name that person. Later on, he could name that person if he had to.

So IOW, he could be protecting someone until push comes to shove versus just protecting himself? The same could be true to CR and his amnesia, I suppose. They're not all that different ... JR says he saw an interception in the dark, and CR says he's totally in the dark about what happened.

 

[Ros]

I wonder if JR heard anything when LS was "intercepted" in the dark.
I also wonder why he said that. If he thought the shadowy person was a stranger, why not chevk to be sure she was OK? If he thought it was someone she or he knew, why did he think that? Did he hear their voices?

 

[Ixchel13]

So IOW, he could be protecting someone until push comes to shove versus just protecting himself? The same could be true to CR and his amnesia, I suppose. They're not all that different ... JR says he saw an interception in the dark, and CR says he's totally in the dark about what happened.

Someone said they saw Lauren hit her head, and the time she did that is disputed. If JW intercepted her, and then she hit her head and started to die, he would
probably try to bring her back where she came from and draw the others back in,
to share the blame, accordingly, and for help from the people who caused her to be so injured. And, the thing that keeps them all in it together, drug abuse. It could have been a collective thing, as Hadar says, it went too far this time, and not because it was Lauren in particular, which people did assume. Perhaps she was saying it about all of them, herself included, that they were all part of a ticking time bomb. Everyone on down the line in that group probably had info on each other that if used against them, singularly or as cell groups, could bring down each others" careers, send them to jail, etc.

The amnesia could be not about what happened after they left SW, IMO, CR probably did pass out. He is claiming amnesia from 15 minutes BEFORE they left Kilroys until waking up the next morning. So, IMO, he's covering the events that occurred before Lauren arrived at 5N, or emerged from the alley, and all of the people involved.
That's alot of ground to cover, from the altercation, and them trying to get into ZC's apt, and then [what I feel to be] inserting a fatal head smack into that amnesia fueled timeline when it is not seen onvideo with the rest of the events the two of them show up on up until they emerge from an alley..

 

[Ixchel13]

So IOW, he could be protecting someone until push comes to shove versus just protecting himself? The same could be true to CR and his amnesia, I suppose. They're not all that different ... JR says he saw an interception in the dark, and CR says he's totally in the dark about what happened.

Someone said they saw Lauren hit her head, and the time she did that is disputed. If JW intercepted her, and then she hit her head and started to die, he would
probably try to bring her back where she came from and draw the others back in,
to share the blame, accordingly, and for help from the people who caused her to be so injured. And, the thing that keeps them all in it together, drug abuse. It could have been a collective thing, as Hadar says, it went too far this time, and not because it was Lauren in particular, which people did assume. Perhaps she was saying it about all of them, herself included, that they were all part of a ticking time bomb. Everyone on down the line in that group probably had info on each other that if used against them, singularly or as cell groups, could bring down each others" careers, send them to jail, etc.

The amnesia could be not about what happened after they left SW, IMO, CR probably did pass out. He is claiming amnesia from 15 minutes BEFORE they left Kilroys until waking up the next morning. So, IMO, he's covering the events that occurred before Lauren arrived at 5N, or emerged from the alley, and all of the people involved.
That's alot of ground to cover, from being in Kilroys, to the altercation, and them trying to get into ZC's apt, and then [what I feel to be] allowing a fatal head smack to be inserted into that amnesia fueled timeline when it is not seen on video with the rest of the events the two of them show up on up until they emerge from an alley..
and was she really kicked out of Kilroy's? Or, were they arguing with someone at Kilroy's at closing time and were prompted to leave because it was time to leave?
we don't know that, at least yet, because CR says he doesn't remember, and Kilroy's conveniently closed down for the summer and scattered those employees and customers who might have witnessed it in the wind.

 

[monkey222]

I thought the interception word was an odd choice of wording as well. My thoughts went to...ok, how many contacts did any of the named POIs make in the wee hours of that Fri am to the effect of..drunk girl wandering down street..be on the lookout..
Just my thoughts here. This way, a shadowed interceptor would not be reason to worry, rather the opposite, as in - good, someone else can deal with this now.

 

[imkeylime]

let's breakdown the narrative for reasons why they said what they did. Because, if the "only" crime was that they hid Lauren's body after an OD, everything would still have to be orchestrated.
So, I'm going to assume the POIs are lying. A first example would be, "why would
JR say that Lauren mistook his Ipod for a phone?" It seems like he is trying to give an example of how inebriated she was...this is how it was taken by the public.
But, to make his story work, to make his apt. the last place she was and that she left on her own, he has to prove she was there..she was there, earlier in the evening, before she was supposedly there at the end. So, her fingerprints are on his IPod.
IMO, his apt was not the last place she was. But, if the POIs want a clean staging area for their story, his apt, with evidence that Lauren was there, would be the perfect place to use for the narrative. Just in case any forensic evidence that may have remained from hiding her, he threw in the remark that he asked her how she
was injured. So if any traces were picked up in his apt, he could say it was from that, for example.
Did I say I'm just speculating? Another bit of seemingly useless info is MB's famous paper due. Like, who cares what he was doing? Does it really matter?
And, the part about putting his friend to bed.
Two things. It places him out of the room Lauren was in. And people, lots of students, snort stuff like adderall and vyvanse to "help" them study. Parents get the prescriptions for them! Who was one of the first people to chime in when people didn't believe MBs story? His mom!
If it were found out that Lauren OD'd on his adderrall/vyvanse/whatever, it gives
MB a way out--he was upstairs and she got into his studying medications without his permission. Remember he said she asked him if he wanted to party. Placing the blame on her.
The person intercepting her in the shadows may be exactly why JW is a POI. In his recent statement, JR may be underlining that for JW. Yes, they may be fraying
a bit because despite many people calling for a respite as to blaming the POIs, people aren't going along with it.
What other bits of info in the narrative could be indicators? The out of town guest tweeting from the Runcible Spoon. He was probably well out of town when someone tweeted that. If these very rich "kids" had help from the beginning from outside (re)sources, the first thing they would probably say is, get the body out of town and trust no one out of the loop. So, as Ros pointed out, what drunk kid could hide her so well here that locals looking for four years couldn't find her?
The tweet placed him innocently having breakfast, with the need to tweet about the corned beef? These guys were in the tech biz. Giving his phone to someone
would probably not place him out of the phone circuit, he most likely has more than one. I'm guessing that someone else tweeted that.

Thoughtful post, Ixchel. Thanks. I'm tied up most of the morning but will think more about all this and respond more later.

 

[AbbeyR]

I'm sorry, but I find it very hard to believe that anyone witnessing an intoxicated girl being 'intercepted' by an unidentified person at 4am would think 'ah, that person lurking in the shadows must be there to help! She's surely in good hands! Goodnight then!'

 

[imkeylime]

Someone said they saw Lauren hit her head, and the time she did that is disputed. If JW intercepted her, and then she hit her head and started to die, he would
probably try to bring her back where she came from and draw the others back in,
to share the blame, accordingly, and for help from the people who caused her to be so injured. And, the thing that keeps them all in it together, drug abuse. It could have been a collective thing, as Hadar says, it went too far this time, and not because it was Lauren in particular, which people did assume. Perhaps she was saying it about all of them, herself included, that they were all part of a ticking time bomb. Everyone on down the line in that group probably had info on each other that if used against them, singularly or as cell groups, could bring down each others" careers, send them to jail, etc.

The amnesia could be not about what happened after they left SW, IMO, CR probably did pass out. He is claiming amnesia from 15 minutes BEFORE they left Kilroys until waking up the next morning. So, IMO, he's covering the events that occurred before Lauren arrived at 5N, or emerged from the alley, and all of the people involved.
That's alot of ground to cover, from being in Kilroys, to the altercation, and them trying to get into ZC's apt, and then [what I feel to be] allowing a fatal head smack to be inserted into that amnesia fueled timeline when it is not seen on video with the rest of the events the two of them show up on up until they emerge from an alley..
and was she really kicked out of Kilroy's? Or, were they arguing with someone at Kilroy's at closing time and were prompted to leave because it was time to leave?
we don't know that, at least yet, because CR says he doesn't remember, and Kilroy's conveniently closed down for the summer and scattered those employees and customers who might have witnessed it in the wind.

Interesting thought about "it went too far." I never thought about it that way, but the fact that HT chose "it" versus "she" could allude to something different, as you note. Strangely enough, the exact same sentence was used by a friend of another young woman whose case I've been following (Jessica Chambers). Maybe it's the "go to" thing to say in cases like these?

 

[doubtingthomas]

"Rosenbaum says that Lauren decided to leave, and he watched from his small balcony as she walked to the corner of 11th and North College. He told investigators that he thought he saw someone in the shadows intercept her.

Didn't JR originally say he saw LS round the corner at 11th and College? I took that to mean once she rounded the corner he could not see her again. Now he is saying he saw someone intercept her. I take that to mean he saw someone with her. How could he see someone with her if she rounded the corner?

 

[AbbeyR]

So in this version (in the recent video), MB is in the living room when Corey and Lauren arrived, Corey fell and was sick on the stairs, and then MB tried to convince Lauren to stay over. In the lawsuit docs, MB was out and returned home thinking there were 'robbers' in the house. And then there's the early stories, of course, of him putting Corey to bed, and Lauren leaving while he was upstairs (and a few other versions). I would love to have a timeline of when these different stories from the POI were told to people.

 

[Wondering Aloud]

Re: AbbeyR/smallwood visit
Why were they there then?
Why did they go to the 5th floor?
IMHO, they either:
1. Were intending to go to her apartment. ZO and crew arrive, scuffle/fight ensues, and they decide to leave.
2. They visited (or attempted to visit) someone else on that floor. Now this would be interesting.
Agreed not sure it has any bearing, just a different perspective. But, again, for me, it also contradicts an explicitly sexual motive.

Intercepted language:
I think he (PI) says ‘intercepted with’. For me, this is PI (former cop) language, not necessarily verbatim what JR said. This to me may indicate he saw someone else walking that Lauren may have interacted with. Same with ‘in the shadows’, seems like PI speak. More likely something like: it was dark and I couldn’t see. Mostly, I think sometimes we get too mixed up in the words the PI’s use. They seem to paraphrase and only give parts, which, while I find very (very) annoying, may or may not be intentional. Like (yes I just typed that), just release a transcript of their recorded statement to you guys. We may have a perspective you haven’t thought of yet. Or maybe, just maybe someone with that little piece of the puzzle will read the transcripts and remember something, or something won’t jive with an explanation they have heard.

Unknown Subject?
JW (I literally think he is guilty because of what his parents said. If he is not, I feel extra sorry for him because of his parents. He should disown them.), someone from the apartments/house on corner (if I recall correctly there was a picture in the herald times of cops speaking to the residents of the house on the corner. I couldn’t find it today.), or unknown subject walking? No mention of a car. At the time, 11th street would have been a very unlikely path for anyone on foot. Well, except for the homeless man that heard the scream.

 

[hisjerseygirl]

"Rosenbaum says that Lauren decided to leave, and he watched from his small balcony as she walked to the corner of 11th and North College. He told investigators that he thought he saw someone in the shadows intercept her.

Didn't JR originally say he saw LS round the corner at 11th and College? I took that to mean once she rounded the corner he could not see her again. Now he is saying he saw someone intercept her. I take that to mean he saw someone with her. How could he see someone with her if she rounded the corner?

Yes that was his original statement... agree that they clearly conflict. And if he supposedly saw someone intercept her in the shadows... wouldn't he be worried? Could he have even seen such a thing in the dark of night from a balcony?

JMO