IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #35

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Could it be possible the altercation at sw had nothing to do with Lauren? Just a previous beef? Or one dealer doesn't like another dealer encroaching on his territory?
 
Or could it be that the "dealer" didn't want possibly gratis goodies at her apt being enjoyed/consumed by another male. Just speculating of course.
 
wild speculation but maybe ZO and friends were still up there partying with Laurens friends when they got wind lauren was headed that way with CR. Altercation didn't happen in a vacuum.
 
Ixchel13 said:
BBM Sorry, I didn't mean to misrepresent your post'

It's just that first ZO "helps" her by knocking out the guy taking her home; and then, you suggest he doesn't help her, or "lets her go" because he's disgusted by her behavior?
Right.

We are discussing what we think is fishy about the altercation. To me, you are saying that as misguided as it was to knock her escort down, ZO was only trying to prevent Lauren from getting raped; but, after knocking her escort out, he doesn't help her because he's disgusted by her behavior; or maybe he's contacted her bf and knows he's on his way to intercept her. I can see that about contacting bf..

Either way, as you say, he's in contact with the bf, no? I totally agree with that. So is he a passerby, as the storyline says, or is he
coming after Lauren and CR and picking a fight? Because he sees them kissing?

And again, we are getting this part of the storyline from the person who committed assault.
there's no audio so we really don't know what was said-one victim is dead and the other cannot remember. Obviously, the two guys had words.

Another totally different idea would be that someone(s) thought it would be better for Lauren to be out on the street shoeless and, phoneless than in her apartment with someone other than JW.
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Where is this business about "the storyline" coming from? I don't think any of us knows exactly what ZO is saying about the incident and why it occurred. I know i certainly don't, and I suspect that no one here knows for sure either. If that information is out there and confirmed, can you please post a link? The last time I heard about the incident, it wasn't even confirmed by LE that ZO was the one who assaulted CR; it was rumor. I did stop paying attention to the case for a while, so perhaps I missed it.

It's been a while since I've been in college, but most drunken altercations in mixed-gender company that occurred between men that I witnessed as an undergrad involved either jealousy, which as far as we know wouldn't have been an issue for ZO, or concern that a woman was in trouble for some reason. I think there were a ton of fishy and weird things about the evening, the fight being just one.

To me, the altercation was a likely nothing more than a hellishly random contributing factor to her disappearance, with no complex motive or plan. I doubt that ZO was trying to prevent LS from getting to her apartment. Certainly it seems doubtful that anyone involved could have known that LS would subsequently disappear. I doubt it was a drug turf war. I'm totally willing to be convinced that there was something really interesting going on, but nothing I've heard so far has been terribly convincing. Maybe it was simple animosity, maybe CR was just a jerk, maybe ZO was just a jerk looking for a fight, I don't know.
 
Ixchel13 said:
BBM Sorry, I didn't mean to misrepresent your post'

It's just that first ZO "helps" her by knocking out the guy taking her home; and then, you suggest he doesn't help her, or "lets her go" because he's disgusted by her behavior?
Right.

We are discussing what we think is fishy about the altercation. To me, you are saying that as misguided as it was to knock her escort down, ZO was only trying to prevent Lauren from getting raped; but, after knocking her escort out, he doesn't help her because he's disgusted by her behavior; or maybe he's contacted her bf and knows he's on his way to intercept her. I can see that about contacting bf..

Either way, as you say, he's in contact with the bf, no? I totally agree with that. So is he a passerby, as the storyline says, or is he
coming after Lauren and CR and picking a fight? Because he sees them kissing?

And again, we are getting this part of the storyline from the person who committed assault.
there's no audio so we really don't know what was said-one victim is dead and the other cannot remember. Obviously, the two guys had words.

Another totally different idea would be that someone(s) thought it would be better for Lauren to be out on the street shoeless and, phoneless than in her apartment with someone other than JW.
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I also never said that ZO was "disgusted" however, I we do have one point of agreement, which is that I think that JW almost had to have been contacted by concerned friends at some point during the evening. Whether the concern centered on wanting him to know she was out with another guy or whether the concern centered on her physical condition, I just can't imagine there being so many witnesses and such a weird scene in her apartment building that his phone wouldn't have been on fire. LE has never said anything about it either way, but it seems like most people who knew her would also have known him as her long time boyfriend, and I can't imagine everyone just watching that whole fight with ZO and her staggering around without shoes back into the night without someone raising it with JW.
 
CoolJ said:
Could it be possible the altercation at sw had nothing to do with Lauren? Just a previous beef? Or one dealer doesn't like another dealer encroaching on his territory?
Click to expand...

I think the only thing we do know for sure is that we don't know. The PIs don't know and reiterated it in the latest interview....BPD doesn't know, they would have suspects or an arrest. Clearly know one knows what happened to LS or much about any of the events of the evening. So I think this a brilliant post, pointing out the endless 'possibilities'.

Very frustrating, but very real.
 
SkiGirl again sorry I didn't mean to be abrasive. Your posts are always good! I guess w/o getting personal, I meant,
are we believing the "official" narrative, and yet, was a large part of it (Altercation) related to LE by people who could get in trouble for whatever part they played right before, during, and directly after, the Altercation?.

For if we knew who besides the assailants was involved, we could maybe get a better idea of what was set in motion directly afterwards that could have harmed Lauren.

When I call this a hapless conspiracy, I mean, not a long thought out plan, I mean once the roller coaster of the Altercation started in motion, who knows who contributed to the bedlam? Supposedly, Lauren was incapacitated. How did CR get up? Because by all accounts, he was knocked flat to the ground.

IMO, Lauren wanted to go home. But she also wanted in ZC's apt after the altercation.
Maybe that's where she wanted to go. Yet Zoe said she had just met Lauren THAT EVENING.

Someone else hadda be there at Zoe's, IMO. My guess would be DB and JR.

We could mistakenly place JR at his apt all evening. But he coulda left after running out of booze, he's only back there in the timeline when MB supposedly brings Lauren over after 3 a.m,
and really, it's only the word of two POIs that he was even there at all!
 
What came first in the media? ZC's comments or JW's mom's comments? How far apart in time were these comments?
 
I can't believe how little we really know about this tragic case. All this time has passed and we still have no clue what really went down.
 
Ixchel13 said:
SkiGirl again sorry I didn't mean to be abrasive. Your posts are always good! I guess w/o getting personal, I meant,
are we believing the "official" narrative, and yet, was a large part of it (Altercation) related to LE by people who could get in trouble for whatever part they played right before, during, and directly after, the Altercation?.

For if we knew who besides the assailants was involved, we could maybe get a better idea of what was set in motion directly afterwards that could have harmed Lauren.

When I call this a hapless conspiracy, I mean, not a long thought out plan, I mean once the roller coaster of the Altercation started in motion, who knows who contributed to the bedlam? Supposedly, Lauren was incapacitated. How did CR get up? Because by all accounts, he was knocked flat to the ground.

IMO, Lauren wanted to go home. But she also wanted in ZC's apt after the altercation.
Maybe that's where she wanted to go. Yet Zoe said she had just met Lauren THAT EVENING.

Someone else hadda be there at Zoe's, IMO. My guess would be DB and JR.

We could mistakenly place JR at his apt all evening. But he coulda left after running out of booze, he's only back there in the timeline when MB supposedly brings Lauren over after 3 a.m,
and really, it's only the word of two POIs that he was even there at all!
Click to expand...

(Sorry, I shouldn't have been such a grump!)

I think LS wanted to be in her apartment with CR...and that when things were so weird in her building, she wanted to get out of there more than she wanted to deal with the whole thing going on in the hallway outside of her apartment. She also may have realized that word might get back to JW sooner rather than later and just didn't want to deal with the drama of him showing up in the midst of everything. I know that if I were cheating on my boyfriend (or even if we were on a "break") and I arrived home with another guy only to find a bunch of friends or acquaintances of my boyfriend standing in the hallway near my apartment, I'd have hightailed it out of there super-STAT to avoid an ugly scene involving my boyfriend. Going into my apartment would have been the last thing I'd have done because I would have had visions of being trapped in there with an angry boyfriend on the other side of the door. And if there was a fight before my boyfriend even got there, I would be even more eager to leave.

Your post makes me think I've missed or forgotten part of the story, though. Who is Zoe? Was that someone who lived in LS' building?
 
you just posted exactly what I think happened! Somehow, at the beginning of this, we were told Lauren "helped" CR home, yet we are also told she could barely make it out of the building. Maybe right after CR was knocked down, Lauren tried to help him up and that is what they were referring to.


Also you describe Lauren almost cornered, or maybe she felt absolutely cornered.

Right after the altercation, Lauren and CR went a block down the street to 10th and College apts and tried to get Zoe Camp to let them in, which she wouldn't, later she said she was asleep, her and THREE other roomies were all asleep. Or this is what she maintains, even though she was hanging out with everyone all night.
 
Ixchel13 said:
you just posted exactly what I think happened! Somehow, at the beginning of this, we were told Lauren "helped" CR home, yet we are also told she could barely make it out of the building. Maybe right after CR was knocked down, Lauren tried to help him up and that is what they were referring to.


Also you describe Lauren almost cornered, or maybe she felt absolutely cornered.

Right after the altercation, Lauren and CR went a block down the street to 10th and College apts and tried to get Zoe Camp to let them in, which she wouldn't, later she said she was asleep, her and THREE other roomies were all asleep. Or this is what she maintains, even though she was hanging out with everyone all night.
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I think when you're intoxicated and have a jolt of adrenaline (e.g., you're suddenly scared that you are about to get into huge trouble with police or a parent or a boyfriend), the anxiety/fear can temporarily sober you up enough to move pretty fast. Maybe the fight was stressful enough that LS was able to get it together enough to at least help CR to his feet and get of the building pretty fast.
 
5 years. Thinking of you, Lauren.

Message from Charlene on the Official Lauren Spierer Updates from her Family facebook page:

You can feel the anxiety build as June 3 approaches. The pall that surrounds every room in our home and the unspoken words between Robbie and me again bring that all too familiar silence that has become an unwelcomed visitor in our lives. I have been fooling myself…believing that every day is the same and no day of loss is more significant than any other. As June 3 approaches so do all the familiar feelings of sadness, regret, remorse, heartbreak and desperation. Lauren will always be a part of our lives, almost like she is still with us, but so clearly absent. Each milestone since her disappearance is accompanied by an awful weight of missing someone so loved it is palpable, but no day is as paralyzing as June 3...physically, my throat tightens, my temples pound, my heartbeat quickens and I wonder how I am going to get through the days leading up to the worst day of our lives. Emotionally, it takes so little to release the flood of tears I’ve tried to keep at bay since the last “anniversary”, knowing that the coming days will be the most difficult.

Five years since Lauren disappeared. Indescribable, unbelievable, unconscionable. It has taken some time but the realization that something so horrible can happen and does happen every day to so many people has become an acceptance. The secrets kept by those responsible for all these years, a reality. Will we ever know the truth of what happened to Lauren? I still believe we will. Will those responsible ever be held accountable? I still believe justice will be served. Will we ever be able to bring Lauren home? I am just not sure anymore. Going through this nightmare, I consider all the possibilities of what could have been done to Lauren after she took her last breath and I can only hope that her suffering was short.

I have always thought that an accident took Lauren on June 3, 2011. I have always known that what followed was a crime. I am still left with a multitude of questions which remain unanswered. As far as I am aware, no one has been cleared but then again, no person of interest was ever named by the Bloomington Police Department. Many leads have been submitted to law enforcement, our private investigators, various media outlets, and agencies who prefer to remain unnamed. There are various theories about what happened to Lauren and who was ultimately responsible, but the puzzle remains missing a vital piece. Until completed, Lauren’s disappearance will remain a mystery. Why? What is it about the events of June 3, 2011, which continue to allude all investigating this case? What is it about Lauren that has kept it someone’s mission to keep the facts so deeply buried? Obviously fear of reprisal, but I cannot believe the person responsible has not confided in someone. Is it truly going to come down to someone having a crisis of conscience? How many years must we wait to have that happen?

There aren’t a lot of scenarios. As Rebecca has always said, the stars would have to have been perfectly aligned for random abduction to have been a serious possiblilty. I agree.

“It always seems impossible until it’s done.” Nelson Mandela. That’s how I feel about Lauren’s case. After five years, and no matter how many more we face, some day, we will get the call, and what has seemed impossible, will be done.

Rebecca, Dad and I are loving you, dear sweet Lauren, every second of every day and you remain in our hearts always.

Our sincere thanks to all who have done their very best to support us and help keep Lauren’s disappearance on the minds of many. To all the law enforcement officers and private investigators who are committed to Lauren, and determined to solve the mystery of her disappearance, we hope for your success and your safety.

Hoping today is the day.
Charlene Spierer

Bloomington Police Department – 812.339.4477
helpfindlauren@gmail.com
Find Lauren PO Box 1226 Bloomington, IN 47402
Beau Dietl & Associates 800.777.9366
@NewsOnLaurenS
‪#‎FindLauren‬
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We're still will you, Spierers, waiting and hoping that today is the day. xo
 
Skigirl said:
I think when you're intoxicated and have a jolt of adrenaline (e.g., you're suddenly scared that you are about to get into huge trouble with police or a parent or a boyfriend), the anxiety/fear can temporarily sober you up enough to move pretty fast. Maybe the fight was stressful enough that LS was able to get it together enough to at least help CR to his feet and get of the building pretty fast.
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There is video evidence though, and it shows the opposite, according to reports from those who viewed it. It shows that Lauren couldn't even walk, fell on the floor, and Corey had to pick her up and 'help her' out of the apartment, before dragging and carrying her down the alley. The people who saw her at Smallwood described her as incoherent and incapacitated and that's the same way she was described by other unrelated witnesses. The one thing that I think is clear in this story is that by the time Lauren left Kilroy's, she was not making conscious choices or getting anywhere on her own.

ETA:

A group of people concerned about her welfare argued with Rossman, who got punched by a man named in court documents as Zach Oakes.

Rossman then took Spierer out of her building and back to his place through an alley.

Witnesses claim in court documents, “Spierer was so intoxicated, incoherent, and unable to properly function that Rossman was observed carrying Spierer slung across his back less than a block from his residence.”

She eventually ended up where she started out her night — with Rosenbaum at his apartment. He has reported she left at 4:30 a.m. to walk home alone toward Smallwood.

In the lawsuit, attorneys for the Spierers filed an affidavit from forensic toxicologist Dr. Harry B. Plotnick, who reviewed security camera video footage of Lauren Spierer from early that morning. He testified, “without hesitation,” that she showed signs of “severe intoxication” by alcohol, depressant drugs, or both.

Plotnick sought specifics about what she consumed — when, where and with whom.

“With that information, I may be able to offer opinion testimony that Ms. Spierer’s blood alcohol level would have been sufficiently high to seriously diminish her physical and mental capacity and thereby prevent her from walking under her own power several blocks, resisting an attacker, or seeking law enforcement or medical help on her own.”
Click to expand...
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/ne...cle_ee77c557-3742-5470-a468-715e2bb08b53.html
 
To add to the Spierers comment that they do not believe this was a random abduction, this article suggests that they have been told that DM is not a suspect in her case:

...The Spierers have been told there’s no connection to Wilson’s murder and Lauren’s disappearance.
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http://www.**************/3112370/l...ay-on-5-year-anniversary-of-her-disappearance

here's another source since the link above does not show up on this site
Despite surface parallels [to Hannah Wilson's case], the Spierers have been told there's no connection.
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http://www.people.com/article/lauren-spierer-disappearance-five-years-live-it-every-day-says-mom

More here, discounting 'wild cards' like DM and DH:
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/ne...cle_ee77c557-3742-5470-a468-715e2bb08b53.html
 
Very confusing timeline:

"After leaving the bar, Rossman helped Lauren Spierer to her apartment building and took her to her floor. He did not get her into her apartment 100 yards away from the elevator. A group of people concerned about her welfare argued with Rossman, who got punched by a man named in court documents as Zach Oakes.Rossman then took Spierer out of her building and back to his place through an alley."

If they were so concerned about her welfare why did they not let her go to her apartment only 100 yards away?

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/ne...cle_ee77c557-3742-5470-a468-715e2bb08b53.html
 
@dvhahn

It's not clear - They may not have known her apartment as ZO and the people present were not, as far as I know, friends with Lauren. The story reported in more detail was that, according to ZO and other witnesses, Corey was being aggressive toward Lauren and bothering her, and she was intoxicated to the point of being incoherent and not being able to walk on her own. They told Corey he should bring her home, and he got confrontational, ZO punched him, and then he left, taking Lauren with him. I've also wondered why they didn't intervene further... It's possible they were drunk too or that they had tried and weren't sure what else to do about it. A few minutes later, another unrelated witness on the street stopped them, asking if Lauren was okay, and again, ZO said he had things under control. She was obviously concerned as well, but she too let her go without calling for help. I think people are often unsure of what to do in these types of situations when things seem off but they don't know the people well or at all...
 
Thank you Abbey! Another thing that is strange is they were only at Kilroy's for 41 minutes and she gets stumbling drunk. I wonder if someone slipped something in her drink. I went to Indiana U. several years ago and used to drink Long Island Ice Teas there. They were so strong they had a 2 drink limit on them at that time. She was so tiny I suppose that would have done it too. Or one mixed with some recreational drugs. Just me speculating.
 
I saw the HT article, but found it interesting that the reason they discount DM is because "The timing isn’t feasible. He would not have had enough time to dispose of a body before arriving to work the morning of June 3, 2011." Is that really the only reason they are discounting him?
 
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