IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #35

[Matic]

yes I remember you talked about spooky catfishing in the forest when I was talking about yellowwood being scary at night.
Yes I wanted to compare the parties. The décor doesn't look like the girls, the wine bottle
still life and is that a poster of John Lennon?
The bartender witness visited "a boy" at 10th and C-V?. She said she circled the block, to do that, you must go all around 10th and C and V.
Anyway, she was "slightly older". So, is the video of the woman trying to kiss the J guy the
bartender witness?
Just what if, what if, ZO's roomie, the J guy, was the "boy"?
This could put the friends of ZO (altercation) in the same room with bar the witness that saw Lauren.
hit her head at 338 on the night she disappeared, and possibly HT was there?
Let us not forget the bar witness knew Messell. She worked at Yogis where DM stalked Hannah.

Sorry, had to clock out and drive home.
I'll do some searching and hopefully the video will turn up.

 

[Ixchel13]

ok...what if Lauren took that pic, sent it to HT and HT posted it in real time at the party?
so...the cops know the picture was in her phone AND on HT's social media?

Also, everyone involved knows where they are. But they keep moving up and down
the same 2-1/2 blocks to parties. IMO, the pre-game party at Smallwood that was supposedly
a mellow wine party started fanning out.

IF the still picture is the pre-game party at Smallwood, HT and Lauren were both there, as well as DR. the last guy they admitted they called before Lauren disappeared.

As we know, HT has a double bar of Xanax on her tongue in the picture.. DR has admitted snorting crushed up Xanax with Lauren before they left for JR's party. But see when HT told her
story, it was all "oh innocent me sipping wine while Lauren was taking it too far this time."

Did HT post that photo in real time so Lauren's BF would see it in real time?

When Lauren leaves this party, does HT text JW that Lauren is meeting up with CR
at JR's party? and is that why Lauren and CR left that party and went to CR's before leaving there to go to Kilroy's?

When everybody crashes, does he lock his own door and climb out the window? that's why the roomies wouldn't/couldn't say for sure if he was there? did they try his door and he wouldn't answer? Later, did he climb back in window? LE has said he wasn't where he said he was.

Again, DM still could have snatched Lauren out from under their noses. Remember, he witnessed the entire altercation in front of Kilroys when Hannah's friends were trying to get her in a cab, and she didn't want to go, then she wanted one of them to go with her and they said no. He
stalked her back to her house. Her roomies heard the front door open and her keys
and purse were on her bed. He snatched her out of thin air it seemed.

 

[Seratonin]

 

[AbookFullofDeath]

Forg

ok...what if Lauren took that pic, sent it to HT and HT posted it in real time at the party?
so...the cops know the picture was in her phone AND on HT's social media?

Also, everyone involved knows where they are. But they keep moving up and down
the same 2-1/2 blocks to parties. IMO, the pre-game party at Smallwood that was supposedly
a mellow wine party started fanning out.

IF the still picture is the pre-game party at Smallwood, HT and Lauren were both there, as well as DR. the last guy they admitted they called before Lauren disappeared.

As we know, HT has a double bar of Xanax on her tongue in the picture.. DR has admitted snorting crushed up Xanax with Lauren before they left for JR's party. But see when HT told her
story, it was all "oh innocent me sipping wine while Lauren was taking it too far this time."

Did HT post that photo in real time so Lauren's BF would see it in real time?

When Lauren leaves this party, does HT text JW that Lauren is meeting up with CR
at JR's party? and is that why Lauren and CR left that party and went to CR's before leaving there to go to Kilroy's?

When everybody crashes, does he lock his own door and climb out the window? that's why the roomies wouldn't/couldn't say for sure if he was there? did they try his door and he wouldn't answer? Later, did he climb back in window? LE has said he wasn't where he said he was.

Again, DM still could have snatched Lauren out from under their noses. Remember, he witnessed the entire altercation in front of Kilroys when Hannah's friends were trying to get her in a cab, and she didn't want to go, then she wanted one of them to go with her and they said no. He
stalked her back to her house. Her roomies heard the front door open and her keys
and purse were on her bed. He snatched her out of thin air it seemed.

Forgive me if this isn’t the right place to ask, I haven't used the site much. I’m very interested in talking to DH, the inmate who sent letters to the Judge here in Brown County in regards to DM and his possible involvement in Laurens case.

I got copies of them from the county clerk recently. I have found DH on FB, he is just using a different name. I do not have a FB, and it’s nearly impossible to create a throwaway on there. I dont know how I could contact him, but he seemed eager to help when he sent the letters and even if it’s total , it’s worth asking him about. He claims Laurens body is buried in the “lake lemon area,” a short distance from where Hannah was found.

Does anyone have any advise on how I could contact him, or have someone contact him?

 

[AbookFullofDeath]

Update. Ive contacted DH, but have not yet received a response, so we’ll see.

Ive gathered a small group of locals who know the area well to go with me this weekend to scout out and search possible locations Laurens remains may be located at Lake Lemon.

Hopefully DH will make contact before then, but we are going with or without his help.

 

[AbookFullofDeath]

Update: Well, we went and searched in several locations around lake lemon and the surrounding area. I was hoping DH would contact me to give me a specific location, but it didn’t happen.

Made a stop at the spot where Hannah Wilson was found, and laid flowers at her cross for her.

We found several soft spots in the woods and dug them up, but unfortunately, found nothing. A positive look at this though is the fact that now we can cross several locations off of our list.

I’m hoping DH will return my messages, but so far, nothing from him.

On a personal note, Every time we venture off on a search I have such high hopes. I always think “this is going to be the day we bring Lauren home.” It’s always such a disappointment when we come home empty handed.

But, as disappointing as it is, I will never stop looking for Lauren. She’s out there somewhere. It’s time to bring her home.

Will update again soon.

 

[Ixchel13]

Update: Well, we went and searched in several locations around lake lemon and the surrounding area. I was hoping DH would contact me to give me a specific location, but it didn’t happen.

Made a stop at the spot where Hannah Wilson was found, and laid flowers at her cross for her.

We found several soft spots in the woods and dug them up, but unfortunately, found nothing. A positive look at this though is the fact that now we can cross several locations off of our list.

I’m hoping DH will return my messages, but so far, nothing from him.

On a personal note, Every time we venture off on a search I have such high hopes. I always think “this is going to be the day we bring Lauren home.” It’s always such a disappointment when we come home empty handed.

But, as disappointing as it is, I will never stop looking for Lauren. She’s out there somewhere. It’s time to bring her home.

Will update again soon.

wow! Welcome, anyway, have you searched "the AC" or Aussie Co ordinants marked on our map?

If DM had turned right from that corner of 45 and Plum Creek Rd., where Hannah was dumped, the ACs are really close. I've always thought that's where he was headed with her when something happened.

IMO the ACs could be where Lauren's body was moved to. According to DH they moved her body during a "camping trip"
on Memorial Day.

Maybe Hannah was awake but pretending to pass out and she tried to jump out of the car when she heard a car coming.

When you access the entire map, you will enlarge the Lake Lemon area and you can see it in perspective.

Then go back to the map, and compare the timelines and crime areas of both victims. Identical practically. Hannah
lived right around the corner from JW, Lauren's BF.

Yogi's manager, the bar DM knew Hannah from, has admitted seeing Lauren fall backwards at 3:38 and lose consciousness and then carried up the street, by someone she has described as not looking anything like CR, the man LS was last seen on camera with at 2:52.

So we have this manager, older than the average patron, somewhere in front or the side of 10th and College and she just happens to see Lauren fall? When, according to JR and MB, Lauren was up in JRs apt looking for her phone, taking a sobriety test and begging to go home at this time.. How weird is it that this manager of Yogi's also knows DM? very.

LE always says the witness got her time wrong. IMO, not the case at all. People think of this witness as coming forward and
helping, she admitted her car circled the block after she "saw Lauren fall". I think the cops got her license plate from cameras, tracked her down, and she told them A LOT more
than was revealed.

to me, the key to where Lauren is lies with this witness. Even when I didn't suspect DM, I suspected her of knowing way too much about this, and we debated endlessly about the discrepancy of the times, 2:52 vs. 3:38. and don't forget JR has her leaving after 4 a.m.

we should revisit the fact that our main debate was that she fell in the alley right before 2:52. Why couldn't she have fallen again later?

Again, we talked extensively about the blacked out state, even
shared links from LE talking about blacked out people becoming lucid enough to walk around, even escape from crimes and accidents being totally blacked out yet functional.

In retrospect, we argued over these things because we were still trying to fit whatever happened into the timeline the cops were feeding us, when we know good and well cops leave out things and even distort things on purpose!

They saw her emerge from the alley at 2:52 on surveillance; the witness saw her hit her head at 3:38, and JR says she walked out of his apt. at 4:15-4:25. also in retrospect, none of this is out of sequence....

 

[Colorado303]

Update: Well, we went and searched in several locations around lake lemon and the surrounding area. I was hoping DH would contact me to give me a specific location, but it didn’t happen.

Made a stop at the spot where Hannah Wilson was found, and laid flowers at her cross for her.

We found several soft spots in the woods and dug them up, but unfortunately, found nothing. A positive look at this though is the fact that now we can cross several locations off of our list.

I’m hoping DH will return my messages, but so far, nothing from him.

On a personal note, Every time we venture off on a search I have such high hopes. I always think “this is going to be the day we bring Lauren home.” It’s always such a disappointment when we come home empty handed.

But, as disappointing as it is, I will never stop looking for Lauren. She’s out there somewhere. It’s time to bring her home.

Will update again soon.

I’m glad there are people still trying to get justice for Lauren. I knew about her disappearance but was unaware of WS till years later. Does anyone who’s been following LS’s case on WS since the beginning know if TX Equisearch was ever approached about helping to find Lauren? I used the WS Search function and couldn’t find any mention of them on her threads but may have done the search improperly.

I know they have a great track record for finding missing people, but have to be invited in by law enforcement. I’m sure Lauren’s parents would have welcomed the help, but perhaps Bloomington PD didn’t want them to get involved. Does anyone know? Perhaps after all these years LE would welcome their help after all.

 

[AbookFullofDeath]

Here is a map of our most recent search. Imgur

The red X’s on the maps are where HW was found. The yellow outlines and X’s are all places we have searched quite extensively (although keep in mind, our group is very small, and we have absolutely zero training. We did our best, but we could easily have missed something.)

The blue dot is the start of a A low traffic trail we searched. Only the trail is public land, the surrounding woods and creek is private property. The trail was donated by the Robertsons as an easement for the Tecumseh Trail. (An easement is a place that lets hikers pass through a safe area like the woods, as opposed to making them walk along a road to get to the next trail head.)

A woman sent me a message about this location, going so far as to offer to take me there. (I did not accept. I’m always armed, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to take unnecessary risks.) I always take these messages with a grain of salt, as they come from strangers on reddit, and more times than not, turn out to be BS.

I won’t tell much of the “story” she told me, as it included personal details such as where as she works and where she lives, her name, etc. However, her story was convincing enough that we decided to check it out.

We found a few suspicious spots and dug them up, but found nothing of interest other than a bag from somewhere called “Andrea’s.”

But I cant deny the spot would be ideal for burying someone for sure.

Because of the public trail through the private property, as long as you aren’t caught off trail, you have a “reason” to be there. There is an extremely low possibility of anyone even being there in the first place given how secluded and seeming unkept the trail was (there were several large trees on the trail).

So aside from the low traffic, there is the fact that most hikers are very grateful for the easement and don't break the rules by crossing over onto the private land. (Which is very clearly marked and stated at the trail head.) which makes the possibility of a hiker or DNR “stumbling” onto the remains very unlikely.

 

[AbookFullofDeath]

Update: I live less than 5 miles from the AC and have decided it’s worth while to check out. We are heading out tomorrow morning to search the location. Will update after search.

 

[AbookFullofDeath]

Just to add: This map is kind of finicky but once you figure out how to navigate it, it is quite useful to view the entire area without the trees and such blocking your view. Double tap to zoom on an area then use the slider on the left to zoom. Water Bodies Streams

 

[AbookFullofDeath]

Doing some snooping tonight and found this interesting :
Letter to CR from DH?

It appears DH sent letters to CR JR MB attorneys as well. Does anyone know what those letters said? I might stop by the clerks office and inquire about them soon.

Forgive me if this is common knowledge but i wasn't aware of it until now.

 

[Ixchel13]

Doing some snooping tonight and found this interesting :
Letter to CR from DH?

It appears DH sent letters to CR JR MB attorneys as well. Does anyone know what those letters said? I might stop by the clerks office and inquire about them soon.

Forgive me if this is common knowledge but i wasn't aware of it until now.

wonder if they requested a letter from him first. Anyway, you are really putting in so much effort! and yes please take pics.

if you see any locals, ask them where the best mushrooms are found. these guys were gleaners.

Maybe too late but possibly follow the creek itself to the ACs? I could see them thinking it would be easier than hiking a trail. also masking scent. but
you are a smart person so already thought of that, right? lol thanks for your hard work...

 

[AbookFullofDeath]

Well the heat got the best of us, so we only spent about 6 hours searching today. But we did make it to the exact AC’s.

I unfortunately left my digital camera in my Jeep So didn’t get pics, but we plan to return to the spot tomorrow morning.

We don’t usually go back and search an area again, but with some new information we received today, we all agreed it warrants further searching.

Thanks to the property owners Of the surrounding property, (and my husband who is the best people person ever lol) they gave us directions to a very secret mushroom hunting spot in the area, with the promise we wouldn’t tell anyone about it, or use it to hunt for mushrooms. Turns out it was roughy 60 feet from the AC’s.

The ground there is soft, easy digging.

It would not be a spot a random person would just happen across, but if you knew the spot, it’s not SUPER hard to get to. The spot is heavily wooded, and the thorn bushes and ticks were plentiful, but a few spots caught our eye and we dug a bit.

We didn’t find anything of interest, but it was something we were told when we were leaving, that piqued our interest.

The man who agreed to let us park in his driveway and walk through a section of his property came out to meet us when we arrived back to our car.

He asked how the search went and we told him we didn’t find anything. He then proceeds to tell us that he had forgotten all about it, but there is “an old well somewhere back there,” and it might be worth checking out.

I was exhausted but still managed to “eek” a little bit when he told us about the well. I sat down and whipped out my map and asked him if he could give us an exact location.

He said he had never seen the well, but had been told it was back there. He gave us a “general area” to look for the well. So tomorrow we are going to hunt for it. Its not much to go on, but we are going to try.

I will NOT forget the camera this time. I’m just not used to having any reason to snap pics, so I dont normally lug it with me lol.

I also found an interesting spot on google earth nearby that we plan on checking out tomorrow. Its probably nothing but looks very out of place. Here is a pic of it:
Imgur

 

[Colorado303]

Doing some snooping tonight and found this interesting :
Letter to CR from DH?

It appears DH sent letters to CR JR MB attorneys as well. Does anyone know what those letters said? I might stop by the clerks office and inquire about them soon.

Forgive me if this is common knowledge but i wasn't aware of it until now.

Apologize for this basic question but who DH? I know his name just not his relationship to the case. Thanks!

 

[AbookFullofDeath]

Apologize for this basic question but who DH? I know his name just not his relationship to the case. Thanks!

DH-David Hayden. Inmate who claimed or have information about Daniel Messel in relation to the Lauren Spierer investigation. Sent multiple letters to the courts, but eventually a cease correspondence order was placed on him. He claims Laurens body is in the “Lake Lemon Area” and was moved there after a Memorial Day camping trip here in brown county.

 

[Ixchel13]

T


Btw, that structure is something on the ground. Not a roof. (Unless the structure is underground) no idea what it is. Looks like an old spot used for gardening possibly? No houses anywhere near now but that doesn’t mean there wasnt at one time.

Glad you're armed. I was just guessing that RR is out of jail.
unless he did something else, he was let out I thought.

most everyone thought RR was just a crazy guy, but I never did. I always thought his gun collection was hinky, who piles their gun collection in a corner, and why almost all were the same style rifle yet none of them a special version of that rifle? Looks like his guns are for militia playing, to me.

LE said RR was talking about the Lauren Spierer case, and said he knew who did it. we tracked him as being at the same bar in Terre Haute that DM frequented, and that he was in the same jail as DH at the same time. All four of these men had charges of violence against women.

At this time, DM was not in custody and had not yet killed Hannah. When RR was arrested atop the Parking garage, he had his scope fixed on Kilroy's front door.

Awhile back, someone, AGAIN from Australia, posted a song video about Lauren, and for the entirety of the song, It showed the front of Kilroys and the video was taken from the top of that same parking garage! That always freaked me out. You can enlarge the video and recognize actual people, if we only knew whom the person who filmed this wanted us to see!

So yeah IMO RR is involved up to his neck and is not crazy.

Then there's stepdad of DM. Raised DM after his abused mother "deserted" him. Stepdad told cops the woman was an alcoholic and deserted them. Wonder if she's buried by those mushrooms too? Funny that the stepdad admitted DM talked about Hannah. He was home the day cops closed in on DM. DM was 3 when mom "deserted" them. learned behavior?

Not to be hyperbolic but you may be walking into a killing field.
Still several missing women and they span through the years. This well thing is scary. And def a good, fantastic lead, Right now I'm going to search the mushroom season, because both crimes were carried out right after mushroom season. Maybe these killers picked that time of year to kill and dispose because they knew mushroom hunters would be done and no reason to go back into the ticks and thorns until the following season?

Do you know anyone with a sniffer dog? off to check on mushroom season.

 

[Ixchel13]

Glad you're armed. I was just guessing that RR is out of jail.
unless he did something else, he was let out I thought.

most everyone thought RR was just a crazy guy, but I never did. I always thought his gun collection was hinky, who piles their gun collection in a corner, and why almost all were the same style rifle yet none of them a special version of that rifle? Looks like his guns are for militia playing, to me.

LE said RR was talking about the Lauren Spierer case, and said he knew who did it. we tracked him as being at the same bar in Terre Haute that DM frequented, and that he was in the same jail as DH at the same time. All four of these men had charges of violence against women.

At this time, DM was not in custody and had not yet killed Hannah. When he was arrested atop the Parking garage, he had his scope fixed on Kilroy's front door.

Awhile back, someone, AGAIN from Australia, posted a song video about Lauren, and for the entirety of the song, It showed the front of Kilroys and the video was taken from the top of that same parking garage! That always freaked me out. You can enlarge the video and recognize actual people, if we only knew whom the person who filmed this wanted us to see!

So yeah IMO RR is involved up to his neck and is not crazy.

Then there's stepdad of DM. Raised DM after his abused mother "deserted" him. Stepdad told cops the woman was an alcoholic and deserted them. Wonder if she's buried by those mushrooms too? Funny that the stepdad admitted DM talked about Hannah. He was home the day cops closed in on DM. DM was 3 when mom "deserted" them. learned behavior?

Not to be hyperbolic but you may be walking into a killing field.
Still several missing women and they span through the years. This well thing is scary. And def a good, fantastic lead, Right now I'm going to search the mushroom season, because both crimes were carried out right after mushroom season. Maybe these killers picked that time of year to kill and dispose because they knew mushroom hunters would be done and no reason to go back into the ticks and thorns until the following season?

Do you know anyone with a sniffer dog? off to check on mushroom season.

 

[Ixchel13]

mushroom season begins April and goes to mid May. That would give time for mushroom hunting stragglers in case the weather stayed mild and lots of rain to be gone by Memorial Day.
Always thought it was weird that Hannah and Lauren were killed the same week of the year. AND that they moved Lauren on Memorial weekend, last weekend of May and a week before the both girls were killed in separate years...this could be why. They knew the place was deserted at that time.

For some reason, this just feels right. By right I don't mean good of course. If anyone reading this knew and loved either Lauren or Hannah, please don't take these posts as being callous.

BFOD, if you get a chance to talk to the property owners, can you ask them if the area is pretty much deserted after mushroom season? And also if mushroom hunting is a generational thing around there, like in, a dad or stepdad handing down his secret mushroom place to his son kind of thing? seems like a no brainer but might spur an unexpected answer....

Also, if any other plants are being gleaned in that area, such as ginseng, ramps or watercress? and where would those things be. My aunt gleans ginseng just east of brown county and it sells for 300. a pound.
Just the idea of these guys being experienced hunters and violent towards women gives me the shivers and makes me go, hmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Colorado303]

I agree! A cadaver dog would be a huge help identifying places to dig and invaluable if you want to know if a body was tossed down that well. May be worth contacting your local search and rescue volunteer team. They may not have cadaver dogs themselves but probably knows someone local that does and would be happy to help.