IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #35

[Ixchel13]

also, inviting everyone back in to this. But if possible, let's not argue about whether Lauren could walk, etc but concentrate your efforts in this new direction? I am the worse web sleuther on here as far as utilizing the web and everyone on here knows it, lol. Someone needs to help BFOD make a search grid from her aerial map....

 

[Colorado303]

@vislaw , maybe you can help us out. Can you look at the picture mentioned at the end of this post from @AbookFullofDeath. Any insights as to what might be? Location is central Indiana.

This is coming up as we discuss the case of Lauren Spierer, an Indiana University student who disappeared near campus in June 2011. LE has pretty much given up IMO but there have been credible clues that suggest her body may have been buried or disposed of in a fairly specific stretch of woods frequented by mushroom hunters.

@AbookFullofDeath lives nearby and has been conducting informal physical searches in the area. She recently got permission to access a specific location. Hoping if you have nothing better to do you could look at satellite images for that general area and see if you spot anything out of place that might suggest a disposal site.

I haven’t been following this case that closely, but other folks on this thread know it inside and out and would be happy answer any questions. They can also point you to all the way-cool maps that have been pulled together so far.

Thanks!!!

Well the heat got the best of us, so we only spent about 6 hours searching today. But we did make it to the exact AC’s.

I unfortunately left my digital camera in my Jeep So didn’t get pics, but we plan to return to the spot tomorrow morning.

We don’t usually go back and search an area again, but with some new information we received today, we all agreed it warrants further searching.

Thanks to the property owners Of the surrounding property, (and my husband who is the best people person ever lol) they gave us directions to a very secret mushroom hunting spot in the area, with the promise we wouldn’t tell anyone about it, or use it to hunt for mushrooms. Turns out it was roughy 60 feet from the AC’s.

The ground there is soft, easy digging.

It would not be a spot a random person would just happen across, but if you knew the spot, it’s not SUPER hard to get to. The spot is heavily wooded, and the thorn bushes and ticks were plentiful, but a few spots caught our eye and we dug a bit.

We didn’t find anything of interest, but it was something we were told when we were leaving, that piqued our interest.

The man who agreed to let us park in his driveway and walk through a section of his property came out to meet us when we arrived back to our car.

He asked how the search went and we told him we didn’t find anything. He then proceeds to tell us that he had forgotten all about it, but there is “an old well somewhere back there,” and it might be worth checking out.

I was exhausted but still managed to “eek” a little bit when he told us about the well. I sat down and whipped out my map and asked him if he could give us an exact location.

He said he had never seen the well, but had been told it was back there. He gave us a “general area” to look for the well. So tomorrow we are going to hunt for it. Its not much to go on, but we are going to try.

I will NOT forget the camera this time. I’m just not used to having any reason to snap pics, so I dont normally lug it with me lol.

I also found an interesting spot on google earth nearby that we plan on checking out tomorrow. Its probably nothing but looks very out of place. Here is a pic of it:
Imgur

 

[Colorado303]

Hi guys. @vislaw is a verified forensic consultant who provided incredible info and insights regarding the disposal site for the Vallow/Daybell kids in May. They have tons of experience working w/satellite images to assist LE in searches such as this.

 

[Ixchel13]

I guess someone should access the weather data from both time periods: relocation of Lauren and what spot he/they may have been headed for with Hannah. Was the creek level up or down?

Is there fishing in Baby Creek? Turtles? Frogging?If fishing, what time of year? My family did hunt frogs, rabbit, deer, back in the day down in Brown County near Lake Lemon area. I used to know these things like the hunting seasons.

People in the LL area stock their freezers with all of the aforementioned things on a regular basis. It's a huge culture down here. We used to have fried rabbit with biscuits and rabbit gravy get together every year, my uncles would come back with pillowcases full of rabbits. BFOD probs knows what I'm talking about. These guys knew their way around that place
probably were up in tree stands and like BFOD said, knew the long way to get in to avoid detection.
This sounds like a bit of research like where are the best fishing spots, where a secluded cove might be, etc and if a boat could have navigated or even if the creek was deep enough to wade in that year. guess i'll go look some of the weather data up.

Local gossip from the right good ol boy says DM had an accomplice. and that he didn't do the actual killing. We know that is not true, based on his violent nature and DNA and blood all over him. But, the accomplice part., now that could be true.

 

[Ixchel13]

I guess someone should access the weather data from both time periods: relocation of Lauren and what spot he/they may have been headed for with Hannah. Was the creek level up or down?

Is there fishing in Baby Creek? Turtles? Frogging?If fishing, what time of year? My family did hunt frogs, rabbit, deer, back in the day down in Brown County near Lake Lemon area. I used to know these things like the hunting seasons.

People in the LL area stock their freezers with all of the aforementioned things on a regular basis. It's a huge culture down here. We used to have fried rabbit with biscuits and rabbit gravy get together every year, my uncles would come back with pillowcases full of rabbits. BFOD probs knows what I'm talking about. These guys knew their way around that place
probably were up in tree stands and like BFOD said, knew the long way to get in to avoid detection.
This sounds like a bit of research like where are the best fishing spots, where a secluded cove might be, etc and if a boat could have navigated or even if the creek was deep enough to wade in that year. guess i'll go look some of the weather data up.

Local gossip from the right good ol boy says DM had an accomplice. and that he didn't do the actual killing. We know that is not true, based on his violent nature and DNA and blood all over him. But, the accomplice part., now that could be true.

quoting myself, also, I need to find out what hunting and/or plant gleaning comes after mushrooms. And how much of a lag there is or isn't. So they might have a window of time to dispose before, say, turkey hunters come. Or, since they're hunters, where they wouldn't look out of place if they were also looking to hide a body, even at night? ok lots to find out...

 

[Ixchel13]

Hunting Regulations | eRegulations
here's what is illegal to hunt from May30-June 10 in Indiana:
red or gray fox
coyote or striped skunk
raccoon or possum
wild turkey
frogs
turtles
rabbits
quail
pheasant
deer
squirrel
then it opens up to frogs June 15 (along the creek)
and turtles July 1. (along the creek)
Wild turkeys won't come in til mid April of the next year.
Everything else starts in Oct and varies but all end by, April, mid May.

So mushroom seasoned has ended, and no hunting allowed in the area and time of our crimes.

now for a weather report, brb

 

[Ixchel13]

Weather History & Data Archive | Weather Underground
weather report for weekend of Memorial Day 2012:
slightly humid early morning thru late afternoon
High 76 low 60
no rain throughout the weekend.
average rain was .17 throughout the month of May, and it seemed to rain often, meaning there probably was water in creek. not sure. everything is on graphs and i hate reading graphs.
Sun set at 6:30 but twilight wasn't til 9:30
waxing gibbous moon set at 2:43 leaving visibility only at 10.
So somewhere between 6:30 p.m. and 9:30 but possibly til 2:43 . Guessing relocated on first early evening.
Weather was good.

 

[Ixchel13]

Hannah's death wasn't the week of Lauren's it was April 24,
right in the middle of mushroom season. Then, both deaths and relocation happened during and at the end of mushroom season.

One of our theories was that DM was headed to JMWs house but
the Bean Blossom bridge was out for repairs and that is a good theory. Turning around, and headed where Plum Creek Rd. meets 45 and it's possible to turn towards theACs, Hannah could've tried to jump out of the car. My theory is that right by that turn, Hannah heard a car coming .

A woman saw her lying there from the road. The cops are guessing she died around 430 a.m. but she was abducted around 1130pm. So that's a gap of 5 hours.

Used to turn that corner twice a day on my way to a summer job at one of the camps very close to there. This was an emergency body dump/chase because no one would be that stupid to attempt anything there.

Possibly, he had already been to JMWs and he/they were on their way to ACs when Hannah woke up. LE does think she was killed on the site. going over to her thread and see if
anything stands out with the ACs thing.

 

[Ixchel13]

on Hannah's thread they posted that the rape DM was sentenced 22 yrs for happened Sept. 1. 2012. So, still no hunting allowed
in ACs area except frogs and turtles (along creek) until Oct. 1.

just 3 mos from Sept. 1, 2012, DM and DH supposedly relocated Lauren's body to Lake Lemon area.

The rape victim's and Lauren's timeline are very similar. He came into contact with her, pulled her into a secluded parking lot and into a vehicle and then drove to Griffy Lake and sexually assaulted her, strangled her, and left her for dead.. So he pulled her right off the main street. On College, where Lauren was supposedly walking that would take him just seconds to do, at the corner she disappeared from there were paths that led straight to the back parking lot which was pitch black and then straight out past the alley Lauren emerged from at 2:52 to Morton street and gone in literally less than a minute.

If DM was stalking Lauren, he would have parked his car in that parking lot, facing West. Hide in the dark small pathways and bushes that frame the entrance to back parking lot, and wait to see if Lauren or some other woman walks by after partying at JRs. He probably knew many women came and went from that row of townhomes and at what hours they did so and where they were headed.

It's the witching hour between 3:30 and 4:30. Either the women/men will stay put where they ended up, or they will try to make it home in their inebriated states to their own secure beds. DM knows this.

Lauren had already made it home once that night, and DM
could have been watching the altercation she had at Kilroys, in fact someone reported that Lauren was arguing with an unknown man in Kilroys who approached her.

Waffle House was brought up, because he could have sat many times in Waffle house where he could observe girls walking from Smallwood on 8th all the way up to corner of 11th.

Waffle House was open 24/7 but no longer there. If there was a team or even 2 guys, someone could watch from waffle house, signal to person with car, the direction and side of street girl was on. If they're on parking garage roof watching Kilroy's door, they could signal to guy on ground which way victim was heading.

During these years before DM was caught, there were many reports of attempted assault and rufies were involved. Story always went, all the sudden girl feels sick or drowsy, tries to go home, staggers out door, and someone tries to drag them into bushes. Usually someone comes along and either finds them on ground after they fought the guy off or the passerby scares guy off. There were also reports about guys getting their wallet stolen after being rufied. They wake up in an alley. Guy told me LE woke him up in the alley at 10 am and he had a busted mouth and black eyes and felt like he had been kicked hard in stomach. Another guy woke up in the alley off 8th street next to Kilroys. both had been drugged and robbed. And men have disappeared, one, an Italian guy, had an altercation with his friends at a bar, and stormed off--never to be seen again. Just like Hannah and Lauren, the visible and loud altercation with friends before the separation from them.

Jill Berman. During the search for her, a violent sexual assaulter Uriah Clouse was said to be bragging about killing Jill. Later, his jailed girlfriend said she had been present and even stabbed Jill. Salt Creek was drained and a tarp and knife were found but no trace of a body. IMO, person in jail for Jill's murder was involved but they moved body without his knowledge.
2 years later, her remains were found by....mushroom hunters.

It's not that mushroom hunters are killers, it's just these killers happen to be mushroom hunters.



IMO. her body had been moved, 2 years later, her remains were found....by mushroom hunters

 

[Ixchel13]

ok went back to our map, greatly enlarged the map. it's cool because the map just keeps going in any direction, so, to reach the ACs you could go out 45 which starts as 10th street and take it all the way to Unionville, turn on Brummet's Creek Rd and take it past Baby Creek Rd. to ACs,
OR
you can go all the way right past the mall on 3rd St. which happens to turn into 46, take that to Brummett's Creek rd, the same rd, and half way to 45 you'll be at the ACs.

The ACs are accessible from the same road on both sides of town, almost in the middle, Is that something?

 

[AbookFullofDeath]

We didn’t get a chance to go back out today. Two members of our group were in a car accident last night. (They are fine, just bumps and bruises.)

However, I did manage to wander back over to East baby creek to snap some pics for y’all. Sorry they aren’t the best. Tomorrow I’ll get some better ones of the location when I’m not alone.

AC

 

[Ixchel13]

We didn’t get a chance to go back out today. Two members of our group were in a car accident last night. (They are fine, just bumps and bruises.)

However, I did manage to wander back over to East baby creek to snap some pics for y’all. Sorry they aren’t the best. Tomorrow I’ll get some better ones of the location when I’m not alone.

AC

after following the enlarged mao of the AC area and following it both up and down Brummett's Creek rd. N. and S. I can see what you're saying about taking the Scarce O fat ridge to the ACs.

Maybe the ACs had some sort of meaning throughout the years. Being accessible from both the exact N and S of town, and then almost instantly the backroads, it seems like an escape route from town. Also strategically if more people were involved, each take a different route out that also divides into different confusing up and down routes from smaller roads, then leading from Brummett's Creek road into the "hideout"?

One of the routes to the ACs goes right across the N. fork of Salt Creek. You can see the little coves and spots around this north fork. Wish I could get a map like that of Baby Creek. I'm going to go look for one.

 

[AbookFullofDeath]

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

Map that shows baby creek

 

[Ixchel13]

following Brummett Creek Rd down from 45(it follows the creek exactly) you will pass the ACs and turning left on Baby Creek rd (follows Baby Creek exactly) then follow road and creek and you do a big eastward loop and end up at the corner of Plum Creek Road and 45, almost in the exact spot Hannah was left at.

so coming back from 45 if the Bean Blossom bridge was out, he could have been heading to AC from the east but panicked at the turn onto Baby Creek rd and left her there. Or for some reason, did he/they see someone near the AC area? or did they see a cop in the area? someone they/he knew in the area?

Because a woman he had raped and left for dead survived, he was going to make sure he killed Hannah after he raped her. But she fought him and, I think, in her excellent physical shape I think she was outrunning him/them until they panicked and bashed her head in before she could double back to the road.

The brave fight she put up left traces of 2 different blood
samples at the scene of death besides her own. and her blood, hair, and scratch marks and bruises all over DMs car, self, clothes, and murder scene.




We know DM was at that spot and probably killed Hannah in that spot.

 

[Ixchel13]

travelled the roads yesterday. Baby Creek Rd (ACs) is alot closer to 45 than 46 but still easily accessible by both roads.

 

[Ixchel13]

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

Map that shows baby creek

clicked on your map, found Bean Blossom rd., which does meet up with Baby Creek Rd. Going to go link that up with Bean Blossom Bridge, gateway to JMWs house

 

[vislaw]

@vislaw , maybe you can help us out. Can you look at the picture mentioned at the end of this post from @AbookFullofDeath. Any insights as to what might be? Location is central Indiana.

This is coming up as we discuss the case of Lauren Spierer, an Indiana University student who disappeared near campus in June 2011. LE has pretty much given up IMO but there have been credible clues that suggest her body may have been buried or disposed of in a fairly specific stretch of woods frequented by mushroom hunters.

@AbookFullofDeath lives nearby and has been conducting informal physical searches in the area. She recently got permission to access a specific location. Hoping if you have nothing better to do you could look at satellite images for that general area and see if you spot anything out of place that might suggest a disposal site.

I haven’t been following this case that closely, but other folks on this thread know it inside and out and would be happy answer any questions. They can also point you to all the way-cool maps that have been pulled together so far.

Thanks!!!

Hello guys. I was in the field working and just now saw this post. I'll make time to take a look tonight and respond accordingly. Can someone give me either GPS coordinates or a Google Earth/Maps link to the image showing this object? I've got access to additional libraries that may have higher resolution.

 

[AbookFullofDeath]

Hello guys. I was in the field working and just now saw this post. I'll make time to take a look tonight and respond accordingly. Can someone give me either GPS coordinates or a Google Earth/Maps link to the image showing this object? I've got access to additional libraries that may have higher resolution.

Google Earth Link


Google Earth

 

[AbookFullofDeath]

Hello guys. I was in the field working and just now saw this post. I'll make time to take a look tonight and respond accordingly. Can someone give me either GPS coordinates or a Google Earth/Maps link to the image showing this object? I've got access to additional libraries that may have higher resolution.

Also wanted to share this image with you Imgur

It shows the same spot during the fall months in 2008 (I think)

There appears to be a house there thats not visible on google earth. (Due to leave coverage)

A garden perhaps?

Thanks for helping ! I appreciate it !

 

[vislaw]

Happy to help. Perhaps some of this imagery will be useful. Here is an oblique view of the cabin taken April 02, 2020:

For comparison, here is an orthographic view of the property taken April 13, 2014:

Feel free to send me a PM with your e-mail and I can send you more high resolution coverage of this area from different dates.