IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #35

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Nothing wrong with being hopeful, Swick. Lauren didn't just evaporate; she has to be somewhere.
 
OkieGranny said:
Nothing wrong with being hopeful, Swick. Lauren didn't just evaporate; she has to be somewhere.
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So true, and let's hope this is the summer Lauren is found. I know we're all thinking of CS this Mother's Day.
 
Thanks Ros and BTown for the story/timeline reposts.

after all this time, we still don't know what in the timelime/storyline is true and what is left out.

IF the POIs are involved and guilty, the story we know as true can't be. Here on WS, we know parts of it can't be true, but yet here it is five years later and the same drivel is being passed off as true.

IMO, ZO was not a "passerby". Yes, CR took Lauren out of the building, but he was bringing her home, and was on her floor in the hall near her apt. when he was assaulted.

For all we know, he said to ZO, "I'm taking her home".

We only have the word of a violent druggie that he was trying to help Lauren. Remember, he didn't help Lauren, or did she resist his help?

If the 5N POIs et al, i.e., the college kids, did it, the storyline is false.
 
I do believe CR was taking Lauren home. It's the Websters definition of taking someone home. They were somewhere, i.e., Kilroy's, it closed, they walked to her apt building, took the elevator to her floor, exited the elevator and hadn't arrived at her apt, yet.

What about that isn't taking someone home?

What angered ZO enough to hit CR? If CR WAS on his way to Lauren's room,
why did ZO need to tell him to go there?

Ever hear the expression, "Get a room?"

IMO, ZO followed them and picked a fight on purpose.

This is where IMO the storyline starts to unravel, the bar witness, etc, all
lies.
 
Wanted to ad...

The reason why I bring up the Altercation yet again is that it is possible that
2 things happened:

1. Lauren was stalked while being out with CR and hounded back onto the street
with him .

2. This led to her later demise in the hands of who-knows-who, possibly the latter suspects in custody.

IF the 5N POIs are not guilty of Lauren's demise or any kind of coverup therein, all of their lies could be because they participated in the "hazing" of Lauren and CR, a behavior most of them shared anyway because of their frat affiliations.

And wouldn't that be a large civil suit even if they didn't actually kill her?
IMO, if they did stalk them, they did inadvertedly cause her death, then,
possibly muddied her reputation by saying it was drugs and alcohol. Just sayin

It would be interesting if posters took parts of the story/timeline and said what they thought was fishy/true/false.
 
Ixchel13 said:
It would be interesting if posters took parts of the story/timeline and said what they thought was fishy/true/false.
Click to expand...

I need to go back and review the timeline in detail. So much has gotten lost and forgotten amidst speculation, rumor, and just mistaken recollections that have become part of the narrative.

But, short of that, what's always struck me as massively incomplete is the altercation at SW. We simply cannot know everything there is to know about that, the context, the background and exactly how that all went down.
It's just weird on any number of levels if we just take the account at face value. Not that the account can't be true, but it's missing details to make it make sense.
If the altercation was to tell CR to get her home... well she was home. So how did they know they weren't headed to her place? Why would they even intercede considering CR/LS were in her apt building... and apparently arriving there, not leaving there, at the time?
And if the altercation was over taking her home, why wouldn't a simple "That's what I'm doing" have sufficed? And if we speculate alcohol fueled the anger and led to both parties getting mouthy, it still doesn't answer why they'd then leave if they'd just gotten there instead of going on as planned.
And if there was so much concern over her well-being then why just let them leave after allowing this to escalate to violence? That's just backwards of what the entire point of the altercation was supposedly about. Unless the altercation wasn't about her condition at all, but still, why did CR/LS leave then? And why did she follow or allow herself to go?

Maybe it was more about breaking them up and not allowing her to be with CR but it backfired when they both left together. But if that is the case, then what else is missing in the official narrative? That would bring up more questions such as why were they concerned about who she was with or why they didn't want her with CR? And what other lengths they might've went to.

Another part of the puzzle is why LE was not very descriptive of naming names and describing what the camera saw in the alley. IIRC they refused to name CR and simply characterized that part of the trip as "made their way" or something like that. Again, I'd need to go over the official timeline and police statements. It just seemed weird they would be muddy in that part of the description unless they were wanting to hide some fact and keep it close to their vest. But there's probably 100's of possibilities where that speculation could lead if that was the case. Which, it just seems when/if you're wanting the public's help you wouldn't want to be so muddy about details like that in order to stir some memories or bring someone forward.
 
akh said:
I need to go back and review the timeline in detail. So much has gotten lost and forgotten amidst speculation, rumor, and just mistaken recollections that have become part of the narrative.

But, short of that, what's always struck me as massively incomplete is the altercation at SW. We simply cannot know everything there is to know about that, the context, the background and exactly how that all went down.
It's just weird on any number of levels if we just take the account at face value. Not that the account can't be true, but it's missing details to make it make sense.
If the altercation was to tell CR to get her home... well she was home. So how did they know they weren't headed to her place? Why would they even intercede considering CR/LS were in her apt building... and apparently arriving there, not leaving there, at the time?
And if the altercation was over taking her home, why wouldn't a simple "That's what I'm doing" have sufficed? And if we speculate alcohol fueled the anger and led to both parties getting mouthy, it still doesn't answer why they'd then leave if they'd just gotten there instead of going on as planned.
And if there was so much concern over her well-being then why just let them leave after allowing this to escalate to violence? That's just backwards of what the entire point of the altercation was supposedly about. Unless the altercation wasn't about her condition at all, but still, why did CR/LS leave then? And why did she follow or allow herself to go?

Maybe it was more about breaking them up and not allowing her to be with CR but it backfired when they both left together. But if that is the case, then what else is missing in the official narrative? That would bring up more questions such as why were they concerned about who she was with or why they didn't want her with CR? And what other lengths they might've went to.

Another part of the puzzle is why LE was not very descriptive of naming names and describing what the camera saw in the alley. IIRC they refused to name CR and simply characterized that part of the trip as "made their way" or something like that. Again, I'd need to go over the official timeline and police statements. It just seemed weird they would be muddy in that part of the description unless they were wanting to hide some fact and keep it close to their vest. But there's probably 100's of possibilities where that speculation could lead if that was the case. Which, it just seems when/if you're wanting the public's help you wouldn't want to be so muddy about details like that in order to stir some memories or bring someone forward.
Click to expand...

Another thing that is fishy about the altercation is that charges were never filed, and, as far as we know, CR did not seek medical attention for a blow that caused loss of memory.
 
akh said:
Maybe it was more about breaking them up and not allowing her to be with CR but it backfired when they both left together. But if that is the case, then what else is missing in the official narrative? That would bring up more questions such as why were they concerned about who she was with or why they didn't want her with CR? And what other lengths they might've went to.
Click to expand...

This is a good point. I've always thought that the altercation was about breaking the two apart (for whatever reason) and that Lauren felt she had to choose and/or felt bad that he CR was attacked and decided to leave with him instead of staying there. I think -- and this is just my opinion -- that the altercation was initiated by someone who knew her as part of a couple with her boyfriend and just didn't think she could be in the right frame of mind to decide about cheating on him, so thought that there was a potential date rape about to happen. Then, when Lauren sided with the person who was supposed to be a rapist, the aggressor let it go out of disgust or frustration and got in contact with her boyfriend.
 
Skigirl said:
This is a good point. I've always thought that the altercation was about breaking the two apart (for whatever reason) and that Lauren felt she had to choose and/or felt bad that he CR was attacked and decided to leave with him instead of staying there. I think -- and this is just my opinion -- that the altercation was initiated by someone who knew her as part of a couple with her boyfriend and just didn't think she could be in the right frame of mind to decide about cheating on him, so thought that there was a potential date rape about to happen. Then, when Lauren sided with the person who was supposed to be a rapist, the aggressor let it go out of disgust or frustration and got in contact with her boyfriend.
Click to expand...

Your opinion goes along with the storyline, and it's interesting, because you believe, for whatever reason, what you're supposed to believe.

What indeed, was their reason? If you go on Zach Oakes FB, you will see a womanizer.
Regardless if he's settled down now, I have no idea, but there is pic after pic of him, lots of them with his arm around two at a time and in several pics he looks wasted.

You've just knocked down the escort of the girlfriend of someone you know, out of concern for
her safety. What do you do next? Her apt is a few steps down the hall. Do you get her roommates? What happened right after ZO punched CR?

If you are trespassing (both CR and ZO were banned from SW) and you commit a violent assault and battery, do you lie to LE? Of course you do!

It would be easy to say ZO was a misguided hero but that's just not true. By all accounts, he was a violent person and this is how he handles something. If his (most likely) drunken mind couldn't handle seeing his friend's (ex?)girlfriend kissing someone else, is it ok to knock that man down?



All the way down this storyline, if this person hadn't done this, if that person hadn't done that,
Lauren would still be alive. About 4 years ago I posted that all these mishaps could have led to her ending up in the hands of a stranger.

The reason I think the altercation is to blame is that Lauren was an adult, she was home,
and by all accounts was happy.

Yes, if LE found out they were hazed there would be trouble. And like the frat wannabe he is, CR can't remember anything.

also wanted to add, the fact that Lauren left with CR is just the point: she wasn't sober enough to make a clear decision to stay put--but she had been just alert enough to know to get home, which is where she was headed.

she may have texted her roomie ahead using CR's phone. This is what I have always thought happened: roomie tipped the guys off and started the altercation in motion.
 
Ixchel13 said:
Your opinion goes along with the storyline, and it's interesting, because you believe, for whatever reason, what you're supposed to believe.

What indeed, was their reason? If you go on Zach Oakes FB, you will see a womanizer.
Regardless if he's settled down now, I have no idea, but there is pic after pic of him, lots of them with his arm around two at a time and in several pics he looks wasted.

You've just knocked down the escort of the girlfriend of someone you know, out of concern for
her safety. What do you do next? Her apt is a few steps down the hall. Do you get her roommates? What happened right after ZO punched CR?

If you are trespassing (both CR and ZO were banned from SW) and you commit a violent assault and battery, do you lie to LE? Of course you do!

It would be easy to say ZO was a misguided hero but that's just not true. By all accounts, he was a violent person and this is how he handles something. If his (most likely) drunken mind couldn't handle seeing his friend's (ex?)girlfriend kissing someone else, is it ok to knock that man down?



All the way down this storyline, if this person hadn't done this, if that person hadn't done that,
Lauren would still be alive. About 4 years ago I posted that all these mishaps could have led to her ending up in the hands of a stranger.

The reason I think the altercation is to blame is that Lauren was an adult, she was home,
and by all accounts was happy.

Yes, if LE found out they were hazed there would be trouble. And like the frat wannabe he is, CR can't remember anything.

also wanted to add, the fact that Lauren left with CR is just the point: she wasn't sober enough to make a clear decision to stay put--but she had been just alert enough to know to get home, which is where she was headed.

she may have texted her roomie ahead using CR's phone. This is what I have always thought happened: roomie tipped the guys off and started the altercation in motion.
Click to expand...

Hmm, sorry, either my writing was super-complicated or there's some other explanation for the above misrepresentation of my post.

The possible reason, as I said, is that the folks who intercepted LS and CR in her building thought that there was a possible date rape in the making, and were trying to intervene. But then, when the putatively well-intentioned intervention backfired. Lauren 'sided' with CR. Why let her leave after that? Frustration, conviction that a hook-up with CR was indeed wanted and would be consensual, or perhaps her boyfriend was tipped off and they were reassured that LS would be intercepted by him. Or maybe short of physically restraining her, there wasn't a way to convine her to stay. And maybe, at some point, she was intercepted by her boyfriend. Maybe he was very jealous that night and not asleep at all - who knows?

I was in a situation in high school once in which I tried to intervene when I thought a friend was in danger of being raped at a party because she was very impaired and the boys she was surrounded by were drunk, aggressive, and frightening. I tried to get her to leave with me. I yelled at them to leave her alone. She subsequently attacked me, scratching my face. People don't always appreciate when others butt into their business, even when it's well intentioned. That doesn't make it wrong to try.
 
Skigirl said:
Hmm, sorry, either my writing was super-complicated or there's some other explanation for the above misrepresentation of my post.

The possible reason, as I said, is that the folks who intercepted LS and CR in her building thought that there was a possible date rape in the making, and were trying to intervene. But then, when the putatively well-intentioned intervention backfired. Lauren 'sided' with CR. Why let her leave after that? Frustration, conviction that a hook-up with CR was indeed wanted and would be consensual, or perhaps her boyfriend was tipped off and they were reassured that LS would be intercepted by him. Or maybe short of physically restraining her, there wasn't a way to convine her to stay. And maybe, at some point, she was intercepted by her boyfriend. Maybe he was very jealous that night and not asleep at all - who knows?

I was in a situation in high school once in which I tried to intervene when I thought a friend was in danger of being raped at a party because she was very impaired and the boys she was surrounded by were drunk, aggressive, and frightening. I tried to get her to leave with me. I yelled at them to leave her alone. She subsequently attacked me, scratching my face. People don't always appreciate when others butt into their business, even when it's well intentioned. That doesn't make it wrong to try.
Click to expand...

BBM Sorry, I didn't mean to misrepresent your post'

It's just that first ZO "helps" her by knocking out the guy taking her home; and then, you suggest he doesn't help her, or "lets her go" because he's disgusted by her behavior?
Right.

We are discussing what we think is fishy about the altercation. To me, you are saying that as misguided as it was to knock her escort down, ZO was only trying to prevent Lauren from getting raped; but, after knocking her escort out, he doesn't help her because he's disgusted by her behavior; or maybe he's contacted her bf and knows he's on his way to intercept her. I can see that about contacting bf..

Either way, as you say, he's in contact with the bf, no? I totally agree with that. So is he a passerby, as the storyline says, or is he
coming after Lauren and CR and picking a fight? Because he sees them kissing?

And again, we are getting this part of the storyline from the person who committed assault.
there's no audio so we really don't know what was said-one victim is dead and the other cannot remember. Obviously, the two guys had words.

Another totally different idea would be that someone(s) thought it would be better for Lauren to be out on the street shoeless and, phoneless than in her apartment with someone other than JW.
 
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