IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #9

[Mophebius]

pings are useless with Lauren's phone as it never left the bar or so we've been told.

Yes you are correct, as I stated I know it wouldn't work for Lauren's phone because she left it at Kilroy's. I am speaking of JR/JW primarily and maybe their closest chronies. I think if we had info, for instance that a certain person/s (JR/JW) made a say 10 mile drive sometime between 2am and 2pm, that would be potentially case breaking evidence. IMO. While I know using cell phone "pings" isn't an exact science, it could possibly place a person/s in an unussual area. This information if attainable could easily implicate or exhonorate some POI's.

 

[Cuoco7]

I guess LE sometimes do not tell the truth, I knew I had read of another video or image after the 2:51 am one. Here's the proof:

"Parker did say police have found an image of Spierer on tape from a security camera in an alley. It showed her with someone else walking from a friend’s apartment to her apartment, Strong said."

http://www.indystar.com/article/201...er-case?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

This article was written after CR's identity was revealed and the video of CR and Spierer was confirmed by LE.

http://www.indystar.com/article/201...er-case?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

It is interesting to go back and read early on when things may have been put out there that shouldn't have necessarily been revealed...

"The two then went to a building complex up the street, where Rossman lives. Police have said she visited two apartments there. Salzmann said there was another "confrontation" that morning at Rossman's building, but he would not elaborate."

In this article it states that there was a 2nd confrontation later in the evening. Who was that with?

Suppose for a moment that this 2nd "confrontation" ties into her disappearance. Who was this confrontation with? Is this the person she was seen walking away with... the unknown unnamed individual?

There were no reported screams or yelling that night, correct?

That can really speak volumes about the people she encountered that night.... IMO she must've known all the people she was seen with. I believe if there was some sort of struggle in the alley vs. "activities" in the alley we would have heard about it and the direction of the search would have been presented differently.

****I'm apologizing for posting on something 4 pages back... As soon as I posted I caught up more with the discussion of this topic... But I was just thinking....

 

[Mophebius]

I still can't imagine why JR would say that Lauren was with him until 4:30AM if she wasn't. Nothing explains to me why he would make this up, it only puts him in the worst possible position. So even if somehow she was scooped up by the "man in the street", he is still putting her at his place almost an hour later...she must have been seen there by someone else and he knows it.

I think JR had no choice in the matter, MB and CR had already placed LS as going over to JR's after she left their apt. I bet he wishes now that, that wasn't the case.

 

[Mophebius]

Police have said Spierer was with the student -- whom they have not identified -- at a nearby bar and that the two were seen on videotape returning to her residence about 2:30 a.m. They then left the building about 10 minutes later, police said.
http://www.indystar.com/article/201...er-case?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

It is interesting to go back and read early on when things may have been put out there that shouldn't have necessarily been revealed...

Suppose for a moment that this 2nd "confrontation" ties into her disappearance. Who was this confrontation with? Is this the person she was seen walking away with... the unknown unnamed individual?

There were no reported screams or yelling that night, correct?

That can really speak volumes about the people she encountered that night.... IMO she must've known all the people she was seen with. I believe if there was some sort of struggle in the alley vs. "activities" in the alley we would have heard about it and the direction of the search would have been presented differently.

****I'm apologizing for posting on something 4 pages back... As soon as I posted I caught up more with the discussion of this topic... But I was just thinking....

There was a scream reported near the area where Lauren disappeared that night. It was never confirmed by LE, but was fairly widely reported in the blogosphere. It is not known if it is related, or like I said substantiated. The scream was aparently heard by homelss people in the area.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Good morning! I always check the weather conditions and moon phases for when the missing person was last seen.

On June third the moon was a waxing crescent and the weather in Bloomington at 3:54 am was overcast. The sun rose at 6:18 am with civil twilight beginning at 5:46 am.

It was very dark that morning. I don't know how JR could have seen Lauren turn that corner on a dark street with overcast skies and only 3% of the moon illuminated. His story just doesn't add up but that is MOO.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...dianapolis&req_state=IN&req_statename=Indiana

Let's all hope and pray that today is the day that Lauren is found!

wm

 

[redsky]

forgive me for forgetting - there will be a PC today? at what time?
thanks!

 

[cluciano63]

I believe LE said there would be PC's Wednesday and Friday of this week at 11:30EST, so I think so.

 

[rlc]

I'm torn between these two scenarios:

If JW was graduating or even just some of her friends graduating, it could have been an emotional period for LS. I was emotional and behaving irrationally the last weekend with the friends who graduated the year before I did. It was the end of something, and I did not want the parties to end, but at the same time, was trying to distance myself from those who were leaving and convince myself I would have just as much fun with the people still around.

so...let's say JW said he'd come over after the game. Game ended, he didn't come, LS feels hurt/emotional about it, decides to go out with some of her guy friends. HT does not approve, out of concern for LS and loyalty to JW, and expresses that, to LS's annoyance.

LS goes out with the guys. She does drugs she does not normally do (part of that behaving out of character, trying to bond with the people who will still be around next year). At the bar, she sees some of JW's friends, who (like HT) show their disapproval of her party mates. She gets out in a hurry, leaving her shoes and phone behind. JW's friends want to know where she is going, so they go back to her apartment. They get there faster because she is walking barefoot (and maybe went a different way). at the apartment building, the altercation makes her think that her roommate was somehow involved in alerting JW or his friends to her going out with the guys, so she leaves angry at her roommate instead of doing the logical thing and staying home. She walks CR home. His roommate gets him to bed, and she is like a lost puppy, not really sure where to go but not wanting to be alone. She asks him if he wants to party, he says no, she says she will go find JR. but after leaving MB's apartment, she has a change of heart. What she really wants is JW. At this point, she either heads for his house, or for the bar where she left her phone, because she is still a little pouty that he did not come over right after the game, and she wants to see if he got in touch with her, in which case she'll go to his house. She encounters the dark-skinned man, who works locally and is walking from the bar he works at to his car. Either before or after getting to the bar. He offers to get her home. But at this point, she is ready to pass out and is locked out of her apartment, and does not want to call her roommate because she is still a little mad at her. So she gives him the address of the closest trusted friend, JR. He gets her there, continues on to his car. Cameras show him walking alone after the 3:38 encounter, so LE clears him. LS is now back at JR's after the 3:38 encounter. Now, either she is still trying to find a place to settle for the night, but does not want to call either JW (who she thinks blew her off earlier and/or is mad at her for being out with the guys) or her roommate (who she thinks ratted her out) so she calls DR, who doesn't answer, then decides to walk home or to JW's despite her reservations about the roommate or JW. Once outside, somebody, maybe the really angry friend of JW's who hit CR, maybe a stranger, maybe even the man who saw her earlier while on foot, is now waiting in a vehicle. Afterwards, none of her friends are sure what happened, but are afraid to admit to things they did that contributed. HT does not want anyone to know that she and LS had a disagreement or that she maybe let JW and friends know what LS was doing, because those things contributed to the tragedy. JW is afraid, but not sure, that his friends did something to his girlfriend on his behalf (for cheating) or that something horrible happened to her while she was cheating. JR's memories are vague, because he was under the influence, but he does not want to admit that, because it leaves too much room for hypotheticals in which he killed her.

Alternatively, while at JR's, her heart stopped, he panicked, called DR because DR supplied the drugs that the three of them did together before going to the bar, and it would seem logical to find out if he knew anything about the drugs. The question here is how they would have gotten her body away where nobody has found it yet.

 

[bunnyesq.]

I'm torn between these two scenarios:

If JW was graduating or even just some of her friends graduating, it could have been an emotional period for LS. I was emotional and behaving irrationally the last weekend with the friends who graduated the year before I did. It was the end of something, and I did not want the parties to end, but at the same time, was trying to distance myself from those who were leaving and convince myself I would have just as much fun with the people still around.

so...let's say JW said he'd come over after the game. Game ended, he didn't come, LS feels hurt/emotional about it, decides to go out with some of her guy friends. HT does not approve, out of concern for LS and loyalty to JW, and expresses that, to LS's annoyance.

LS goes out with the guys. She does drugs she does not normally do (part of that behaving out of character, trying to bond with the people who will still be around next year). At the bar, she sees some of JW's friends, who (like HT) show their disapproval of her party mates. She gets out in a hurry, leaving her shoes and phone behind. JW's friends want to know where she is going, so they go back to her apartment. They get there faster because she is walking barefoot (and maybe went a different way). at the apartment building, the altercation makes her think that her roommate was somehow involved in alerting JW or his friends to her going out with the guys, so she leaves angry at her roommate instead of doing the logical thing and staying home. She walks CR home. His roommate gets him to bed, and she is like a lost puppy, not really sure where to go but not wanting to be alone. She asks him if he wants to party, he says no, she says she will go find JR. but after leaving MB's apartment, she has a change of heart. What she really wants is JW. At this point, she either heads for his house, or for the bar where she left her phone, because she is still a little pouty that he did not come over right after the game, and she wants to see if he got in touch with her, in which case she'll go to his house. She encounters the dark-skinned man, who works locally and is walking from the bar he works at to his car. Either before or after getting to the bar. He offers to get her home. But at this point, she is ready to pass out and is locked out of her apartment, and does not want to call her roommate because she is still a little mad at her. So she gives him the address of the closest trusted friend, JR. He gets her there, continues on to his car. Cameras show him walking alone after the 3:38 encounter, so LE clears him. LS is now back at JR's after the 3:38 encounter. Now, either she is still trying to find a place to settle for the night, but does not want to call either JW (who she thinks blew her off earlier and/or is mad at her for being out with the guys) or her roommate (who she thinks ratted her out) so she calls DR, who doesn't answer, then decides to walk home or to JW's despite her reservations about the roommate or JW. Once outside, somebody, maybe the really angry friend of JW's who hit CR, maybe a stranger, maybe even the man who saw her earlier while on foot, is now waiting in a vehicle. Afterwards, none of her friends are sure what happened, but are afraid to admit to things they did that contributed. HT does not want anyone to know that she and LS had a disagreement or that she maybe let JW and friends know what LS was doing, because those things contributed to the tragedy. JW is afraid, but not sure, that his friends did something to his girlfriend on his behalf (for cheating) or that something horrible happened to her while she was cheating. JR's memories are vague, because he was under the influence, but he does not want to admit that, because it leaves too much room for hypotheticals in which he killed her.

Alternatively, while at JR's, her heart stopped, he panicked, called DR because DR supplied the drugs that the three of them did together before going to the bar, and it would seem logical to find out if he knew anything about the drugs. The question here is how they would have gotten her body away where nobody has found it yet.

I think that it would have been easy for JR to get rid of her body on his way home for the summer.

 

[Blythe]

Possible?, - Just speculating, I can believe that Lauren was reacting to the fact that JW had graduated. I also buy that recreational drug use, not alcohol, was new to her.

My scenario differs otherwise. I'm thinking she had passed on between 3:15 and 4:00 and was already enroute to disposal. JR's unanswered call to DR was just a nod to Smallwood that "it was taken care of". He can claim to see her at 4:30 because he knows no one else has seen her at that time and it distracts from anything going on between 3:00-4:00.

The second "confrontation" which seems to have been dismissed or even retracted I believe was the "crisis". I think many people know what happened, at least in part. The group was motivated by shock and panic and acted quickly. Surely there were visitors in town, it is summer vacation, so there was access to anonymous help and vehicles.

I think she was totally wasted by 3:00, incapable of making a call. If she had any cognizance at all, she would have returned for her phone. Don't think she called DR for that reason. Besides if she called for her key and he didn't answer and she made no other calls why wouldn't she crash at JR's? If she was calling for her phone, why didn't she just call her cell?

 

[Blythe]

Also thinking the unanswered call to DR might just be to suggest that he was in his apartment when actually only the phone was. He wasn't going to need his phone if he was on the errand to dispose of LS.

 

[Gabby66]

She walks CR home. His roommate gets him to bed, and she is like a lost puppy, not really sure where to go but not wanting to be alone. She asks him if he wants to party, he says no, she says she will go find JR. but after leaving MB's apartment, she has a change of heart. What she really wants is JW. At this point, she either heads for his house, or for the bar where she left her phone, because she is still a little pouty that he did not come over right after the game, and she wants to see if he got in touch with her, in which case she'll go to his house. She encounters the dark-skinned man, who works locally and is walking from the bar he works at to his car. Either before or after getting to the bar. He offers to get her home. But at this point, she is ready to pass out and is locked out of her apartment, and does not want to call her roommate because she is still a little mad at her. So she gives him the address of the closest trusted friend, JR..

It was pretty widely reported what time she left CR's apartment. If she didn't show up at JR's until later, you'd think his attorney would want everyone to know that. It would be fairly easy at that point to say that she was probably given some sort of drugs during that time she was alone, returned to JR's house, then left without a trace....the drug may have kicked in and then who knows what she did? She may not have been herself, etc. CR's roomie seems to be saying that she left their place and went straight to JR's. To my knowledge, JR's attorney hasn't denied that. I think it's more likely that IF LS left JR's apartment and had an encounter with this dark-skinned man, JR was somehow a part of that encounter and doesn't want the LE to know about it......

I think I believe the encounter but I think there may be a confusion over time. The witness was confidant that it was 3:38 but she reported this so long after the fact. If it were actually 4:38, that would be perfect timing and could clear these boys, pointing to a stranger abduction. She leaves JR's around 4:15, walks down College, then meets up with someone and begins walking with him in a different direction - maybe she knew the guy - and ends up on College/10th.

 

[porchpile]

Has it been widely reported what time she left CR's apartment? I thought that was one of the gray areas--last seen on camera at 2:51 on way to CR's apartment, MB puts CR to bed, LS goes to JR's apartment but no time specified.

 

[Truthful Lies]

I don't know why I can't shake the feeling that this was an abduction by someone outside of her group of friends - like someone who lived in her building whom she thought was "safe" perhaps to help her to her apt...or said something like "crash here if you're locked out.", or noticed she was upset and offered her a drink and an ear. Who knows - maybe someone who is/was a "friend" that had made a move she rejected (either that night or in the past). I dunno - just thinking. I've been following along, just haven't had much to say until combing through the info. Now, granted I know many, many killers had a lot to "lose", but somehow I just don't see these friends doing this.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[elmomom]

I've seen it said here that this witness reported her sighting to LE very long after the fact. From what I read on the Tony Gatto blog, my impression was the only thing that took so long was for this information to come to light, and for TG to report on it, no mention of when LE actually spoke to the witness. My impression is that it was not long after LS went missing.

 

[jjenny]

I've seen it said here that this witness reported her sighting to LE very long after the fact. From what I read on the Tony Gatto blog, my impression was the only thing that took so long was for this information to come to light, and for TG to report on it, no mention of when LE actually spoke to the witness. My impression is that it was not long after LS went missing.

Regardless of when it was reported to LE, I don't believe LE think this info is credible. The 3:38 am supposed sighting is not included into the timeline released by LE. And it doesn't fit with the rest of the story we have been given so far. LE also haven't released any sketches of the "dark skinned man."
And I am not saying that witness is lying. If the witness actually exists, the witness could be simply mistaken, she might have seen someone else and not LS.

 

[Gabby66]

The second altercation appears to definitely be a key in some way. They were taking a summer session, right? If so, has it been confirmed that CR's roomie had a test that Friday? He claims to have been studying at 3 AM - why? If he didn't have a test, he had the whole weekend to study. I understand that many kids want to free up their weekend to party, but why not Sunday afternoon/evening? During most summer sessions, kids take 1-2 classes only. It's not that hard to build in study time. His roommate was out at the bar and he chose to stay home to study? He continues to study when he has the opportunity to party with Lauren? Certainly, this is the behavior I'd want of my own son, but if these guys are the big party crowd they've been portrayed to be, I find it odd. Perhaps I'm wrong - maybe this was finals week and not summer session yet. If so, then maybe he had a final on Friday. Either way, I think they should look into that and have it confirmed. Ask him to produce notes that he was reviewing, etc.

 

[elmomom]

Found a very interesting quote in MSM, yes LE has spoken with JR it seems.

http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/camera-recorded-information-missing-iu-student/

Hoping everyone got a chance to see this post from last night.

Also, I want to add, everyone is focused on cocaine in this story. From all the descriptions I keep seeing about LS that night, cocaine seems less and less feasible. I think they may have been snorting oxy - a prescription time-release pain med that is extremely potent if ground up and used in that method. It is all the rage currently and would explain descriptions of LS as extremely intoxicated. Cocaine would not cause a person to stumble, become incoherent, or unaware of their surroundings.
just my .02

 

[jjenny]

It wasn't a test. The roommate (MB) was working on two papers which he turned in on Friday. Considering it's college, and these young people are there to study, I think it's pretty sad when we find it hard to believe somebody was actually studying.

 

[Gabby66]

Has it been widely reported what time she left CR's apartment? I thought that was one of the gray areas--last seen on camera at 2:51 on way to CR's apartment, MB puts CR to bed, LS goes to JR's apartment but no time specified.

My "widely reported" comment wasn't referring to comments made by LE. These were supposed statement made by witnesses (parties involved) and then reported by various sources. Here is one:

"Beth told police that Spierer was at his and Rossman's apartment until about 4:15 a.m. or so. But Spierer hadn't gone far, she went two doors down to another friend's apartment in the same building, where Jay Rosenbaum lived.
Rosenbaum said she didn't stay long and that he'd watched her leave, heading back to her own Smallwood Plaza apartment complex at about 4:30." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110618...witness_to_lauren_spierer_case_blogger_says_1

I'm just saying that if this is NOT the way in which it happened, why doesn't JR's attorney deny that? I've also read conflicting reports about MB. One report is that he was studying for an exam, whereas another report is that he was writing a paper - which was it? Did LE ask to see the completed paper? Did they check to ensure he had an exam on Friday?