In my right hand is the blue pill, in my left the red pill

[Holdontoyourhat]

A coroner can tell if someone fell down the stairs, especially if it led to their death. JB did not have the injuries consistent with that kind of accident. What do you think her injuries were consistent with?? You see in the news all the time (unfortunately) where a parent brings a child to the emergency room or calls 911 to say the kid fell down the stairs and it proved that the child was beaten.
I think that is exactly why the RN was needed. Nope. RN not needed. Simply state JBR was missing from her bed. Let LE find her in the basement. It was the head bash that rendered her unconscious, maybe even comatose, and it would have been fatal on its own. There was no external sign of the head bash, however. What do you mean? So an obvious cause of death was devised (and maybe there were marks on her neck from PR twisting her shirt that needed to be explained I am not completely convinced of that, however). So to me, both the garrote and RN were devised to offer an explanation of why their daughter was going to be found dead in the home. For them to call 911 and say there had been an accident (which they certainly could have done), the autopsy would reveal blunt force trauma (so what, an accident IS blunt force trauma). And sexual abuse. It was the latter that possibly caused the parents to devise such an elaborate and convoluted crime scene.

My responses in blue.

They could've claimed that JBR was kidnapped, sexually assaulted, and murdered by an intruder. No ransom note required. There is only a vague explanation for the RDI claim that an RN is somehow 'required' in the RDI conspiracy plan. There's really no logic to this, other than the preconception that RDI.

Sexual abuse? Where the heck is JR"s DNA? They've got SOMEBODY ELSES DNA there, but not JR's. Who's to say JR abused her anyway and not somebody else? Obviously in your scenario, PR is co-conspriator therefore JR has nothing to worry about.

The whole premise that JR 'needed' a ransom note to help coverup an accident, a murder, or prior abuse is false. In the RDI scenario, everything could've been blamed on the night-time kidnapper murderer.

 

[bessie]

Wrong. I've given it no thought as I'm typing, and I would place JBR at the bottom of stairs and claim she fell in the night, or place JBR outside and claim an intruder kidnapped, sexually assaulted, and killed her. What do you need a ransom note for?

Actually, my reply was tongue in cheek. I agree the RN was superfluous, and in my opinion, quite likely a PR contrivance.

On the other hand, if we go on the premise that JRDI, besides being a highly intelligent millionaire businessman, you are also a father, a husband, and a human being; and a weak, pathetic one at that. Unless you are devoid of a conscience -- it's possible -- you have committed the most unspeakable of human offenses just hours before a holiday reunion with your family. I contend that at such a moment, horror, shame, and guilt could very well render you mometarily powerless to make cool-headed decisions, leaving you dependent upon your hapless co-conspirator.

Further, as DeeDee points out, sexual abuse had to be accounted for, so an accident wouldn't do. This is where I see PR's dramatic bent come into play, and as agreed, I think she went a bit far with the RN.

Anyway, those were my thoughts several years ago, and admittedly, I'm not familiar with the new information that has since come to light.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Actually, my reply was tongue in cheek. I agree the RN was superfluous, and in my opinion, quite likely a PR contrivance.

On the other hand, if we go on the premise that JRDI, besides being a highly intelligent millionaire businessman, you are also a father, a husband, and a human being; and a weak, pathetic one at that. Unless you are devoid of a conscience -- it's possible -- you have committed the most unspeakable of human offenses just hours before a holiday reunion with your family. I contend that at such a moment, horror, shame, and guilt could very well render you mometarily powerless to make cool-headed decisions, leaving you dependent upon your hapless co-conspirator.

Further, as DeeDee points out, sexual abuse had to be accounted for, so an accident wouldn't do. This is where I see PR's dramatic bent come into play, and as agreed, I think she went a bit far with the RN.

Anyway, those were my thoughts several years ago, and admittedly, I'm not familiar with the new information that has since come to light.

JBR found in the basement with her injuries, including strangulation by garrote, headbash, and sexual assault don't lead to JR on their own. They lead to a sexual assault by intruder. The RN doesn't change that. Therefore the RN had no steering effect.

Even if prior abuse the intruder could've been blamed for that too. Ransom note not required in RDI coverup of prior abuse scenario becayse ransom note doesn't make any claims relevant to prior abuse of JBR. Again, RN had no steering effect.

Prior abuse frequently referred to as fact, but it is not really known. Its worth noting that neither BPD or DA reference any prior abuse theories.

 

[BBB167893]

'Oh, they were panicked and can't think of everything' is a wildcard claim. Did you know that you can explain ANY crime scene nonsensical phenomenon with that excuse?

It's not an excuse; it's an explanation, and one I find quite believable when talking about amateurs.

RDI asks us to believe that BOTH JR AND PR walked thru the kitchen, past the pineapple in the bowl with their fingerprints on it, while writing long fake ransom notes, tieing fake garrotes/ligatures around JBR, and placing fake tape on her mouth. Oh, and while wearing GLOVES to do other parts of the crime. I'm sorry not plausible.

Why not?

Its like the wildcard claim that PR disguised her handwriting and spelling ability. Now, any differences whatsoever that are discovered in handwriting or spelling between the RN and PR's exemplars are accounted for. Its like magic.

"Disguised writing" is no wildcard.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

If RDI, then the handwriting is disguised.

If IDI, then either the handwriting is disguised, or the RN author had a handwriting trait that turned circles and ovals into squares.

Obviously, you've already decided RDI. That makes you unable to see the handwriting trait possibility, and are instead assuming it to be disguised only. It IS an assumption on your part.

 

[BBB167893]

Even if prior abuse the intruder could've been blamed for that too.

Now you're talking.

 

[BBB167893]

If RDI, then the handwriting is disguised.

If IDI, then either the handwriting is disguised, or the RN author had a handwriting trait that turned circles and ovals into squares.

Obviously, you've already decided RDI. That makes you unable to see the handwriting trait possibility, and are instead assuming it to be disguised only. It IS an assumption on your part.

Unable? Let me tell you something, HOTYH: even when I was IDI, the disguised angle seemed only wise.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Unable? Let me tell you something, HOTYH: even when I was IDI, the disguised angle seemed only wise.

The length of the RN casts doubt that anyone, IDI or RDI, would be disguising their handwriting. Wisdom applied tells us that someone who was busy disguising their handwriting would also keep the note brief, lest their authorship be exposed. The note wasn't brief. Writing a long note and disguising handwriting are mutually opposing interests. Therefore, its possible the RN author didn't care about leaving their natural handwriting, the same way they didn't care about the RN length. This clearly opens the possibility that we're looking at handwriting traits.

Wisdom and assumption are mutually opposing concepts also. Better to explore all possibilities on unsolved child murder.

 

[BBB167893]

The length of the RN casts doubt that anyone, IDI or RDI, would be disguising their handwriting. Wisdom applied tells us that someone who was busy disguising their handwriting would also keep the note brief, lest their authorship be exposed.

I figured you'd say something like that. I would just remind you what KIND of person we're dealing with here.

The note wasn't brief. Writing a long note and disguising handwriting are mutually opposing interests.

Somehow, I don't think our resident drama queen would know that. There are also a lot of psychological aspects I could mention.

Wisdom and assumption are mutually opposing concepts also. Better to explore all possibilities on unsolved child murder.

One must also keep a healthy respect for the difference between knowledge and wisdom.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Somehow, I don't think our resident drama queen would know that. There are also a lot of psychological aspects I could mention.

What, like 'labeling'?

Drama queen is just a meaningless label to me. Maybe your other readers appreciate it but it carries no value for me.

I can feel the hate flowing.

 

[BBB167893]

What, like 'labeling'?

I was thinking more along the lines of conscious intent vs. subconscious urge, that sort of thing.

Drama queen is just a meaningless label to me. Maybe your other readers appreciate it but it carries no value for me.

Well, first of all, it may be meaningless to you, but it stuck with the chief prosecutor enough for him to make a point of it in an interview. And secondly, if my other readers appreciate anything I say, it is only because I have earned their respect.

I can feel the hate flowing.

Consume you, it will.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Consume you, it will.

Not in the least. This has been more productive than I ever thought it would be:

• PR spelled advize, not advise.
• RN author used squares where the rest of us expected to see circles or curves.
• JBR packed 'to-go' wrapped in a blanket, her mouth covered with tape, and wrists not quite tied up yet, and the reported fingernail DNA suggesting an interrupted kidnapping.
• RN placed on stairs as a tripwire to alert intruders in the basement, kitchen, or both.
• Pineapple never sourced to the house. Nobody knows what type of container it came in.

 

[BBB167893]

Not in the least. This has been more productive than I ever thought it would be:

• PR spelled advize, not advise.
• RN author used squares where the rest of us expected to see circles or curves.
• JBR packed 'to-go' wrapped in a blanket, her mouth covered with tape, and wrists not quite tied up yet, and the reported fingernail DNA suggesting an interrupted kidnapping.
• RN placed on stairs as a tripwire to alert intruders in the basement, kitchen, or both.
• Pineapple never sourced to the house. Nobody knows what type of container it came in.

I could argue with those (some of them; I applaud your catch on the letters), but for now I'll just say that you make things interesting.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I could argue with those (some of them; I applaud your catch on the letters), but for now I'll just say that you make things interesting.

Well, this is a VERY tough crowd for IDI. The December 25th end of the cold war anniversary I left out, but that was pretty good too. At the risk of being... what?

 

[BBB167893]

Well, this is a VERY tough crowd for IDI.

How was I making it tough? Trust me, if I want to make it tough for you, you'll know it!

The December 25th end of the cold war anniversary I left out, but that was pretty good too. At the risk of being... what?

For once, I don't get you.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

How was I making it tough? Trust me, if I want to make it tough for you, you'll know it!



For once, I don't get you.

Yawning.

Yawning some more.

RDI believes that this happened on December 25th because of 'holiday stress'. Unfortunately, not only do we not know this for a fact, but DNA evidence and the DA's office is telling us that JBR was probably killed by an intruder.

That sort of opens the door to new ideas on why December 25th was chosen. One idea I had was that it coincides with the 5th anniversary of the fall of the biggest socialist system on the planet, and the ransom note coincidentally has some big and popular socialist expressions. Its even aligned against this country, something no other ransom note author did.

Its possible you are suffering from 'investigative constraint'. Where one idea predominates, other ideas fail to even form, and if they do they don't evolve.

 

[BBB167893]

Yawning.

Yawning some more.

Sleep while you can. In fact, I advise you to be rested. LOL

RDI believes that this happened on December 25th because of 'holiday stress'. Unfortunately, not only do we not know this for a fact, but DNA evidence and the DA's office is telling us that JBR was probably killed by an intruder.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't swallow that one whole.

That sort of opens the door to new ideas on why December 25th was chosen. One idea I had was that it coincides with the 5th anniversary of the fall of the biggest socialist system on the planet, and the ransom note coincidentally has some big and popular socialist expressions. Its even aligned against this country, something no other ransom note author did.

:banghead:

Its possible you are suffering from 'investigative constraint'. Where one idea predominates, other ideas fail to even form, and if they do they don't evolve.

Don't lecture me, HOTYH. I used to be one of you, remember? I've been the route. And as I always say, it's good to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brain falls out.

 

[DeeDee249]

My responses in blue.

They could've claimed that JBR was kidnapped, sexually assaulted, and murdered by an intruder. No ransom note required. There is only a vague explanation for the RDI claim that an RN is somehow 'required' in the RDI conspiracy plan. There's really no logic to this, other than the preconception that RDI.

Sexual abuse? Where the heck is JR"s DNA? They've got SOMEBODY ELSES DNA there, but not JR's. Who's to say JR abused her anyway and not somebody else? Obviously in your scenario, PR is co-conspriator therefore JR has nothing to worry about.

The whole premise that JR 'needed' a ransom note to help coverup an accident, a murder, or prior abuse is false. In the RDI scenario, everything could've been blamed on the night-time kidnapper murderer.

JR is not necessarily the abuser in my RDI world. There are other family members to consider.

The head bash left no EXTERNAL indications. There was no gash, no head swelling, no blood, no scalp wound. Those present at the autopsy were very surprised to find the skull fracture. It was only visible when upon reflection of the scalp, which in layman's terms meant that the coroner slices open her scalp at the back and peels it back over her skull.

The pineapple actually WAS sourced to the house. It was found to be identical to pineapple found in the family's bowl, and I believe, to pineapple still in the fridge.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

JR is not necessarily the abuser in my RDI world. There are other family members to consider.

The head bash left no EXTERNAL indications. There was no gash, no head swelling, no blood, no scalp wound. Those present at the autopsy were very surprised to find the skull fracture. It was only visible when upon reflection of the scalp, which in layman's terms meant that the coroner slices open her scalp at the back and peels it back over her skull.

The pineapple actually WAS sourced to the house. It was found to be identical to pineapple found in the family's bowl, and I believe, to pineapple still in the fridge.

I'm not sure you grasp the 'sourcing' concept. When we say it was 'sourced to the house' we mean that we know how the item got to be in the posession of the R's, as opposed to an intruder bringing it with them. We don't know how the pineapple got to the house, because nobody knows the packaging it was in.

It can't be factually shown that the pineapple, tape, cord, or handwriting did not come in with the intruder.

 

[DeeDee249]

PR said she always bought pineapple for JB because it was one of her favorite snacks. She spoke about in in one of her depos- she said she usually bought fresh pineapple that had been already cubed. It is easily available in any supermarket.
That's good enough for me. So is the cash register receipt showing items identical in price and department to the tape and cord.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck- it's a duck.