IN - New Albany: Mother, two children found dead in creek

[time]

It has probably been noted on here already that the pastor published a book in 2011 called Transfigured?

 

[michmi]

Provide links for your statistics, please.

I could prove your claims wrong just by cases on Websleuths but I am willing to see what your research has revealed.

I have backed up my assertions based on experience with links for those interested in further reading so they can form their own opinion.

Not factoring in possible mental illness, psychotic break, or other mental health impairment [temporary or long term] is a mistake, imo.

I lived most of my life outside of Cleveland TN so do not assume I am ignorant of the church and its doctrine and divisions.


ALL IMO

We already went off on the PPD/PPP trail, let's not go off into the religion trail.

 

[Reader]

There are as many statistics on the web as stars in the sky. I did not presume u ignorant of the penticostal faith, merely stating from my 50 odd years experience with penticostals IN THIS AREA. Agree to disagree. Have also been women's health& psych RN. Please, it is just MY experience & my findings. I could quote God, but some would still disagree. It does not matter any way. We will probably never know. I'm signing out. thank.

Althea, I hope you will come back also...your information on the religious beliefs, community information and your opinions on what may have happened have been very valuable to all of us.

We should be getting more information from the LE and prosecutor soon regarding the COD for the mother and their investigation. Your input on these facts to come will be very appreciated.

Hope to see you back soon!

 

[CALIORBUST]

Sorry to all of ya'll about the pink text. I'm new here..kinda addicted now..lol..but wasn't thinking it could be hard for others to read the font on various devices.

As a local also like "Althea"...I'm pretty into and passionate about this case.
I have to say I FULLY agree with all points made. It was freezing cold, snowing!! In my mind, it all boils down to the weather as the biggest thing I struggle with thinking she walked to the park and did this to them and then herself, the fact that this creek at Binford is in fact too shallow to baptize full submersion and/or IMO drown self without screaming/struggle, someone or something noticing, no signs of trauma to bodies as stated in multiple news articles. I think the baby harness and Bible were part of a staging/distraction in this crime. I personally think "if" this was a murder vs. suicide, the bodies were put there in the middle of the night or very early morning while still dark & especially if the LE's alibi of seeing them around 7-7:30am was from MC himself. I don't believe they ever said "who" saw them and I know that's a question on a lot of our minds.

Additionally, based on the oddness of statements from MC, body language, pastors upfront involvement & instant spotlight, MC's initial reaction/response when he came home finding them missing, reading all of this content on here, his news interview AT the damn funeral, lack of trying to find the killer/demanding to know what happened to them/discounting that she could ever do something like this yet not following that with passion/anger/revenge on who it could be, etc... I do not feel she is responsible. Big bold words...I know and I could be TOTALLY wrong. I would be an EFFIN MAINIAC put me in a straight jacket and give me a Xanex if my kids were missing, hurt or God forbid dead. In a way, I want to be right so SOMEONE can hopefully be arrested and pay for such a horrible crime. It is hard for me (personally) to think I am wrong and that it is so easily possible any mother can/will/does kill her young innocent children and herself. Of course it happens but I just like to stay in my bubble and believe it doesn't. If my kid falls and scrapes his knee bloody, I feel bad, sad, wishing I could take their pain away. To physically kill a child/project pain and suffering purposely (anyone for that matter) makes me want to puke. So I'll just sit here on my hands...in limbo...hoping for some sort of breaking news to scroll across my phone stating toxicology reports reveal mothers death.

 

[Reader]

It has probably been noted on here already that the pastor published a book in 2011 called Transfigured?

Do you know what the book is about? (I'm sure about his religion but any specific belief involved?)

 

[MsFacetious]

This is why the discussion got started on PPD/PPP... because we wanted to correct things being said.
It isn't that we believe THIS case is a murder/suicide.
It's that we just don't want to continue seeing incorrect information without correcting it.

My wonderful friend who nearly killed her baby... had a 100% natural home birth where she was in control.
She is a natural birthing, breastfeeding, cloth diapering mother.
PPD isn't caused ONLY because of how we birth. If it was, then only one kind of birth would have PPD.

I know plenty of natural births/home births/midwife births who still had PPD or PPP.

My friend NEVER thought this could happen to her because she did everything "right." She had 3 previous healthy births.
That is the problem. Women don't think it'll happen to them... and when it does they aren't prepared.

EVERY woman needs to know it's a possibility. EVERY family needs to know to keep an eye out for signs.

My friend was minutes away from being a case discussed on Websleuths. I have to keep an open mind on these cases.

Jaime's case is a mystery. ANY scenario in this case seems hard for me to believe because of the circumstances.

PPD is real, but I have never looked at the 20th century prevalence in relation to the "patriarchal take-over of women's bodies". Perhaps PPD has evolved due to women viewing birth as a medical emergency vs an empowering experience. Hence, 100 years ago, during " the rise of American obstetrics"', women began to be held as " frail, week- minded, & inferior".... So now, a lot of women " believe" in this indoctrination, hence the pregnancy is viewed with fear rather than joy; a medical emergency to be handle by "GodDoctor vs her own intrinsic power as a vessel of life. PPD is a result of how the medical communities DEMAND that we birth, which is against nature. Since the dawn of time, women birthed with the assistance of other women, in an upright position. Then came Louie the Perv, who wanted to view the vagina's of the birthing women of his court & decreed law" all must birth in the litho tommy position. Not only does this slow down labor, but it greatly intensifies pain....working against gravity vs with it. The list of horrors perpetrated against women in the last 100 years is essential genocidal. Now we wonder why they are all turning homicidal? Take a closer look back to the 15th &16th centuries where all of the " wise-women healers" we're hunted, tortured & killed...some estimate the death toll to be as high as 3 million. The Inquisitions primary rationale was that anyone who aided a birthing woman to " offer comfort or help eliminate pain" WENT AGAINST GOD, who said, " all women shall bring forth their young in pain".:furious:

 

[MsFacetious]

Do you know what the book is about? (I'm sure about his religion but any specific belief involved?)

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Transfigured-ebook/dp/B006GTU68U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364493061&sr=8-1&keywords=transfigured"]Amazon.com: Transfigured eBook: J Todd Nichols: Kindle Store@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41s3x4iQe%2BL.@@AMEPARAM@@41s3x4iQe%2BL[/ame]

 

[Trident]

There are as many statistics on the web as stars in the sky. I did not presume u ignorant of the penticostal faith, merely stating from my 50 odd years experience with penticostals IN THIS AREA. Agree to disagree. Have also been women's health& psych RN. Please, it is just MY experience & my findings. I could quote God, but some would still disagree. It does not matter any way. We will probably never know. I'm signing out. thank.

Althea, to me, you make the most sense. With all the crime we see on this board I'm surprised there is so much suspicion being put on the mother. As you said, and what we usually see, is the husband is worked over with a fine-toothed comb. I believe that is happening here, I hope, behind the scenes.

I totally agree with, and totally respect your "take" on this case. I can't speak for anyone else's "religious" experiences, but I have gone the route of talking in tongues, never quite up to snuff, strict way of life - except no snakes.

Keep on posting, you make so much sense.

Thank you very, very much.

 

[marycarney]

This is why the discussion got started on PPD/PPP... because we wanted to correct things being said.
It isn't that we believe THIS case is a murder/suicide.
It's that we just don't want to continue seeing incorrect information without correcting it.

My wonderful friend who nearly killed her baby... had a 100% natural home birth where she was in control.
She is a natural birthing, breastfeeding, cloth diapering mother.
PPD isn't caused ONLY because of how we birth. If it was, then only one kind of birth would have PPD.

I know plenty of natural births/home births/midwife births who still had PPD or PPP.

My friend NEVER thought this could happen to her because she did everything "right." She had 3 previous healthy births.
That is the problem. Women don't think it'll happen to them... and when it does they aren't prepared.

EVERY woman needs to know it's a possibility. EVERY family needs to know to keep an eye out for signs.

My friend was minutes away from being a case discussed on Websleuths. I have to keep an open mind on these cases.

Jaime's case is a mystery. ANY scenario in this case seems hard for me to believe because of the circumstances.

GREAT POST!!!!! I suffered from PPD with my second (of four). Never reared it's ugly head again. I have no depression/psych history whatsoever.

 

[time]

Do you know what the book is about? (I'm sure about his religion but any specific belief involved?)

I'm sure it is related to specific religious beliefs ... I don't want to read too much in it but one review says it's his personal journey (adding that to BBM below)

Shrouded beneath the thinly spread veil of present-day Christianity lies the Divine provocation for spiritual growth and empowerment. Situated within the sprawling pages of this book the reader will sense the call of the Spirit leading you through bedrock biblical principles, effectively launching you into the stratosphere of spiritual revelation. The author will seamlessly lead you through the stages of man, the inner man, and the outer man until you emerge as the whole man, having been reconciled to your intended place of dominion with God. The apex of God's eternal purpose, promise and province revealed in the sons of God is the awaited manifestation for the whole earth. Transfigured is not just for Messiahs.

reference: Amazon.com: Transfigured eBook: J Todd Nichols: Kindle Store

 

[Reader]

Amazon.com: Transfigured eBook: J Todd Nichols: Kindle Store

Thanks! The book has 5 reviews and each gave it 5 stars, top rating. Here is one from someone who knows Nichols:

I have been a member of Greater Faith Church for 10 years and have worked next to the author of "Transfigured" many, many times and I can say without hesitation; He lives this book. I have seen the way he presents the teaching contained in "Transfigured" from the Holy Bible and have seen many lives "Transfigured" by God because he shows them how not to look at 'man' for direction but how to look to God for direction.

Get a copy today, and start watching your life be "Transfigured" tomorrow.

Probably does not matter to this case, except wondering if Jaime read the book and if it gave her any ideas?

Could go both ways...if she thought she needed to be 'closer to God', and if she stopped 'looking at man' for direction....maybe somebody did not like this since they weren't the boss anymore?

 

[time]

Thanks! The book has 5 reviews and each gave it 5 stars, top rating. Here is one from someone who knows Nichols:




Probably does not matter to this case, except wondering if Jaime read the book and if it gave her any ideas?

Could go both ways...if she thought she needed to be 'closer to God', and if she stopped 'looking at man' for direction....maybe somebody did not like this since they weren't the boss anymore?

Oh, interesting ... you can't have it both ways can you. But I wonder in their religion if women are always below men, animals are below women (dominion). How does that work if the two might conflict?

 

[fred&edna]

I try to look at most WS cases using "logic". I don't always succeed but I try
The biggest question I try to ask myself with each case fact is... While it's possible, is it likely?

Just my opinion: I think this case is especially troubling for all of us because it involves... religion AND possibly PPD/PPP... both of which vary greatly when trying to apply "logic".

 

[time]

I had never heard of Hoquiam, WA before this case (probably because the population is ~ 8-9,000), but there is news that a couple wanted in Sacramento fled there (own a home there?) and the man was killed in a standoff with police).

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013...-in-2-day-standoff-with-police-in-washington/

The CBS affiliate in Seattle, KIRO-TV, is reporting a man wanted for fraud charges in Sacramento was shot and killed following a 20-hour-long standoff with officers in Hoquiam, Washington.

The man, who goes by the name of Rick Marlowe, was shot in an exchange of gunfire with police after he walked out of his burning home on Thursday morning. A fire at the suspect’s home erupted around 6:30 a.m. Thursday and spread quickly.

The man was armed and wore a kevlar helmet and gas mask. It appears he initially used a fake name for some reason.

"We have no idea what made the guy take it to such an extreme level," Dayton said. "No reason as to why it escalated." ...The wife owned the home, and the couple had lived in Hoquiam since 2004. The man wasn't suspected of any crimes locally, Dayton said.

"http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Standoff-in-Hoquiam-ends-with-suspect-down-home-in-flames-200423521.html

http://thedailyworld.com/sections/news/local/couple-was-wanted-california-real-estate-fraud.html

In the case against the Marlowes, Nina Marlowe is also referred to as Nina Lyubezhanina.

“The allegations (in the 2004 case) were that the female subject, at the male subject’s direction or involvement, forged and pretended to be another female who was on title of the property with the male subject,” he said. “He had her pretend to be this other person so they could sell the property and the sale resulted in an amount of equity that would have gone to them,” Blazina said.
Blazina said the fraud involved about $160,000 in equity with $80,000 allegedly going to the woman if the sale had been approved.

http://thedailyworld.com/sections/news/local/couple-was-wanted-california-real-estate-fraud.html

It appears Rick/Rob Marlowe grew up and lived in Aberdeen and Hoquiam, WA.

 

[cindysue]

Well I hope you keep posting, you have a lot to offer on this case imo

 

[JaimeSommers]

this may be my last post

Still in the process of catching up, so apologies if the explanation has already been shared -- but what the heck is this about? Wish you could be verified and stick around. Have appreciated your insights. Take care.

 

[seattlechiquita]

I also hope you hang around Althea, but please, do register as a verified local.

 

[Yoda]

I've been going back and reading the first articles written. Something that stood out to me as being "off". Rev Nichols says he's known the family for five years, MC called him very soon after getting home from work and finding his family missing, Nichols says dad left for work at about 4:50am. From reading all this information given to the reporters by Nichols, I would assume he knew the family very well. Then why did he have no idea where MC worked?
"Nichols said Michael Clutter “was definitely at work all day long” on Wednesday.... ...He was not certain where that job is."

http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...loss-wife-2-kids-bodies-found-New-Albany-park

 

[fran]

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[BeginnersLuck]

I've been going back and reading the first articles written. Something that stood out to me as being "off". Rev Nichols says he's known the family for five years, MC called him very soon after getting home from work and finding his family missing, Nichols says dad left for work at about 4:50am. From reading all this information given to the reporters by Nichols, I would assume he knew the family very well. Then why did he have no idea where MC worked?
"Nichols said Michael Clutter “was definitely at work all day long” on Wednesday.... ...He was not certain where that job is."

http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...loss-wife-2-kids-bodies-found-New-Albany-park

A printing company was mentioned in one of the articles as his place of employment. There is one that I found that is approx. 2 miles from where they lived. This would make sense as it is about a 10 minute drive on google maps. He supposedly left the house at 4:50.

Also, I believe it was JC's mother or father that stated they spoke to her the night before on the phone.