IN - New Albany: Mother, two children found dead in creek

[WhitneyLea]

Oftentimes, dispatchers are getting patrol/ EMS/ FD rolling while taking the call. And some have scripts that use for certain situations- I'm guessing this dispatcher was mentally trying to 'align' this situation with a known script?

True. I guess he was probably talking to someone on a different "channel" or maybe the editing in the video was just weird. Thankfully the caller seemed calm, I feel like I would probably be freaking out if that was me. But I'm a little high strung anyway. anic:

 

[Reader]

Thanks, but I don't know to what post you're directing me. I connect through Tapatalk using my phone. It only shows a post number if the post hasn't been thanked. Pretty much every post so far has been thanked, so no post numbers appear.

Excerpt from #55 by BeginnersLuck:

I could not find where I thought it was reported, that the family was seen at 7:30 that morning, but I did find this:

Quote:
Henderson says that Jaime Clutter and her children were spotted in New Albany Wednesday morning. He says they believe the family had been in the creek anywhere from a matter of minutes, to a matter of hours.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/21657563/m...-grandchildren

 

[JaimeSommers]

Excerpt from #55 by BeginnersLuck:

Thanks for your help. Much appreciated. Have been trying to determine what details (if any) have come from someone other than the husband and/or pastor.

 

[Reader]

Thanks for your help. Much appreciated. Have been trying to determine what details (if any) have come from someone other than the husband and/or pastor.

YVW....looking forward to what you come up with...the only info I have trusted is from the LE and prosecutor...

 

[mysteriew]

Anybody seen this one? Different storyline? Reporter error?

Clutter said the last time he saw his family was early Wednesday morning before he went to work and nothing was out of the ordinary. Clutter told us Brandon crawled into bed with him, they both said "I love you" and his wife hugged kissed him goodbye before he left. However, Clutter knew something was wrong when he came home from work later that day and they weren't home. After calling some of Jamie's friends who didn't know where she was and Clutter then decided to go to police.
http://www.wave3.com/story/21674769/new-albany-man-struggling-with-deaths-of-wife-and-2-kids

This one does say the clothing was found nearby

 

[Snoopster]

When I first read that LE thought they had died 'within a matter of minutes to a matter of hours', I thought this meant any time between 7:30 and 5:00. According to the press conference video, the prosecutor mentioned that they had found no evidence that the father was at the creed that afternoon, when asked if the father had been cleared.

I had two thoughts/observations here....
1) it sounds like they thought that the victims died in the afternoon, thereby excluding the mid-late morning time period.
2) the prosecutor's wording was evasive, and wasn't something to the effect of, 'yes, he has been cleared as we confirmed that he was at work during the entire period in question'.

Linking to the press conference video again, for convenience:

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130315/NEWS01/303150079

While the prosecutor might not represent all of the details perfectly, I would think he would try to be very careful and precise in what he says.

As an aside, the photos of that 10-year old boy haunt me. Did he have any friends? What kind of life did he have?

 

[chinacat67]

I wish this pastor would just shut the hell up. He comes across as being much more interested in protecting his own interests and promoting himself than he does as an advocate for justice.

From the start he has struck me as trying to get out ahead of this for the sake of his church and his reputation...as in he clearly has suspicions and was trying to distance himself and his church before the media/LE even mentioned a perhaps zealotry type religious aspect. He started speaking about "we are not extremists" and I thought "who the heck said you were??".

So, I think from the start he has been concerned only with the image this will cast on his church and he had an idea from the start was this is really about and wanted to get out ahead of it.

MOO, of course......

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk HD

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I'm glad the father is speaking now instead of the pastor. I don't know if the pastor inserted himself in this from the start or reporters went to him. It would seem odd for reporters to go to him and he may have just told the father let me handle this for you.

I do think the pastor said things for selfish reasons and he was trying to draw attention away from the church. There were some comments made by him that were contrary to what I had witnessed, from watching videos that I had found over the internet.

 

[FragileSugar]

Nope, Sheffield does not have security cameras on the property and there are no cameras on the way to the park. In fact, there isn't alot from the apartment to the park...however, a little small local resturant/bar on the left side...you would pass walking the few blocks...down to the park. I am confused though about the timing and why the 10yr. old would be awake at 4 something in the morning..."heard" his parents and wanted to say bye to his dad. What time does the father start work...I wonder. With the time change, it is pitch dark outside...even in the morning...till about 7:30-45 at least. Walking down to the park early, early morning doesn't seem right, it's just a two lane road..one way going and one way coming, still not sure there are even sidewalks down to the park.

Caliorbust - how big is the bridge that was near where they were found? Is it a tiny foot bridge or large enough for cars? Do you suppose if they were underneath the bridge when the children were drowned, would anyone have been able to see them? I believe the report said mother and daughter were found close to the bridge and the son further downstream. Was the stream strong enough to carry his body away from the bridge?

 

[the seeker]

I'm I the only one creeped out by the fact that the pastor seems to have an awful lot to say? It seems like every article is quote after quote from this guy. I don't know. It just strikes me as weird.

No, that was my first feeling.

 

[marycarney]

No, that was my first feeling.

I think he's a 'yakker' AND willing to spout off about any- and everything. Attention-seeker, KWIM?

Perhaps he subscribes to the Hollywood theory that ANY publicity is GOOD publicity?

 

[CALIORBUST]

Well, I have to say that as of today....and granted totally MOO....I believe they (all 3) were sedated/drugged/poisoned elsewhere (strong feeling of at home and/or some sort of husband involvement) and then the "person(s)" responsible for this went to the park and put their bodies in the creek at night which would have been Tuesday. I can see how they would not be discovered until about 5pm-ish on Wednesday. It was friggin snowing that day and cold. I do not feel any parents in their right mind would have their kids out at the park during the COLD *advertiser censored* day to have been able to "come across the bodies" and not to mention school is in session. As for people "walking" around the park, etc.. and coming across the bodies during the day (had they been placed there overnight in the dark when no one would have seen or known) it seems very unlikely IMO because of the weather that day. Cold, gloomy, snowing, not park weather for adults out for a stroll or kids playing. When the LE said they figured the bodies were not in the water for a long period of time...I would assume the night before would fall into this...granted it would be a little more than 12 hours and way less than 25 hours if somehow they were put into the creek in the middle of the night Tuesday. I think that there is still something off about the husband, the stories, the timing of when they were last seen, the fact of no signs of foul play, etc.. Something tells me inside this was a murder but staged to look like a suicide with the clothes, baby harness hanging from a tree and Bible.

The bridge is in fact a walking bridge and not cars. I would not say in any way this "creek" that is 12-18 inches deep has a current strong enough to move a 10 year old body down stream too much..or Jamie. Granted, bodies float I guess (that just gave me chills even typing it) and I would assume "drift" some but not a strong current.

I listened to the 911 calls myself and I know the man who was out with his wife thought they were manikins. I can understand ...as he then hung up and called back the second time. NO ONE EXPECTS TO COME ACROSS THE BODIES OF KIDS OR AN ADULT FOR THAT MATTER IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD CREEK. I can understand he thought he saw something, doubted what he saw, got closer then called 911 back. I would be HORRIFIED!!!!

Some of the questions I have today are was the husband totally ruled out as a suspect? Do we have any interview or audio of LE stating the "husband is not a suspect" because all I have seen so far is that he was at work. Wouldn't LE (hoping they have already) contacted husbands job, talked to his boss, checked time records, interviewed people where he was employed? He could very well be at work on time Wednesday with nothing out of the ordinary IF they had been disposed off in the creek during the night.

Someone mentioned somewhere that the water in the lungs should be tested and is it clear like bath water or creek water? The creek is NOT clean per say and yes debris, etc.. I read yesterday that the husband said they would not release the victims bodies yet for burial as they were holding for this pending investigation. How SAD they can't yet properly be laid to rest but I hope coroner gets everything they need to figure this out.

I am curious also why we have not heard from HIS parents.

I am curious also about the pastor and if he was approached to talk to media or he stepped up on his own. Was it to speak for the Clutter's because the husband and family so tight with the church, is it to promote his church & be in the spotlight or does in some way he know what happened and better to CYA from the start, act the act of non-involvement, spotlight off him, the father and the church since it's name was mentioned early on.

Does it really take 4-6 weeks or what not for toxicology reports? Ugh!

Fingerprints...I know that the husband has been "staying in a hotel" and I thought LE was investigating the apartment, cars, etc.. They would have prints of the 3 and can get prints of father...I would hope the Bible, clothes, car steering wheel, apartment door, etc, etc... have been tested for anyone besides these 4.

Computers, phones, text messages, emails...I would assume these searches are all hopefully default things LE looks at when investigating.... ?

All of this, of course, my own opinion and thoughts formed on my own based on details of the case so far and my gut.

 

[marycarney]

Well, I have to say that as of today....and granted totally MOO....I believe they (all 3) were sedated/drugged/poisoned elsewhere (strong feeling of at home and/or some sort of husband involvement) and then the "person(s)" responsible for this went to the park and put their bodies in the creek at night which would have been Tuesday. I can see how they would not be discovered until about 5pm-ish on Wednesday. It was friggin snowing that day and cold. I do not feel any parents in their right mind would have their kids out at the park during the COLD *advertiser censored* day to have been able to "come across the bodies" and not to mention school is in session. As for people "walking" around the park, etc.. and coming across the bodies during the day (had they been placed there overnight in the dark when no one would have seen or known) it seems very unlikely IMO because of the weather that day. Cold, gloomy, snowing, not park weather for adults out for a stroll or kids playing. When the LE said they figured the bodies were not in the water for a long period of time...I would assume the night before would fall into this...granted it would be a little more than 12 hours and way less than 25 hours if somehow they were put into the creek in the middle of the night Tuesday. I think that there is still something off about the husband, the stories, the timing of when they were last seen, the fact of no signs of foul play, etc.. Something tells me inside this was a murder but staged to look like a suicide with the clothes, baby harness hanging from a tree and Bible.

The bridge is in fact a walking bridge and not cars. I would not say in any way this "creek" that is 12-18 inches deep has a current strong enough to move a 10 year old body down stream too much..or Jamie. Granted, bodies float I guess (that just gave me chills even typing it) and I would assume "drift" some but not a strong current.

I listened to the 911 calls myself and I know the man who was out with his wife thought they were manikins. I can understand ...as he then hung up and called back the second time. NO ONE EXPECTS TO COME ACROSS THE BODIES OF KIDS OR AN ADULT FOR THAT MATTER IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD CREEK. I can understand he thought he saw something, doubted what he saw, got closer then called 911 back. I would be HORRIFIED!!!!

Some of the questions I have today are was the husband totally ruled out as a suspect? Do we have any interview or audio of LE stating the "husband is not a suspect" because all I have seen so far is that he was at work. Wouldn't LE (hoping they have already) contacted husbands job, talked to his boss, checked time records, interviewed people where he was employed? He could very well be at work on time Wednesday with nothing out of the ordinary IF they had been disposed off in the creek during the night.

Someone mentioned somewhere that the water in the lungs should be tested and is it clear like bath water or creek water? The creek is NOT clean per say and yes debris, etc.. I read yesterday that the husband said they would not release the victims bodies yet for burial as they were holding for this pending investigation. How SAD they can't yet properly be laid to rest but I hope coroner gets everything they need to figure this out.

I am curious also why we have not heard from HIS parents.

I am curious also about the pastor and if he was approached to talk to media or he stepped up on his own. Was it to speak for the Clutter's because the husband and family so tight with the church, is it to promote his church & be in the spotlight or does in some way he know what happened and better to CYA from the start, act the act of non-involvement, spotlight off him, the father and the church since it's name was mentioned early on.

Does it really take 4-6 weeks or what not for toxicology reports? Ugh!

Fingerprints...I know that the husband has been "staying in a hotel" and I thought LE was investigating the apartment, cars, etc.. They would have prints of the 3 and can get prints of father...I would hope the Bible, clothes, car steering wheel, apartment door, etc, etc... have been tested for anyone besides these 4.

Computers, phones, text messages, emails...I would assume these searches are all hopefully default things LE looks at when investigating.... ?

All of this, of course, my own opinion and thoughts formed on my own based on details of the case so far and my gut.

Here's the problem with your theory - LE has stated that they were seen the morning they were found.
I'm leaning heavily toward murder/ suicide.

 

[wfgodot]

Murder/suicide here too. The simple solutions, though they're not the most entertainingly sleuth-worthy ones, are almost always the correct ones. (Occam's Razor, etc.)

 

[mysteriew]

I am torn between postpartum psychosis murder/suicide and murder, with heavy leaning toward murder/suicide.

(And yes it can take 4-6 weeks for a tox report to come back. And that is a conservative estimate, it can take longer.)

 

[michmi]

Caliorbust, FWIW, I agree with you.

 

[CALIORBUST]

I might have missed it but am looking for it now...who was it that said they had seen them that morning...the husband? A neighbor? that would prompt the LE to make that statement that it was the last time they were seen...I guess Im curious if it was the husband that had seen them last or someone else.

 

[mysteriew]

From what I have read LE has never said who saw them. Only that they were seen (maybe about 7:30 am but not sure.) Hubby reportedly left for work about 5 am.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I might have missed it but am looking for it now...who was it that said they had seen them that morning...the husband? A neighbor? that would prompt the LE to make that statement that it was the last time they were seen...I guess Im curious if it was the husband that had seen them last or someone else.

In the press conference at approx 4:15 in on the video Henderson states that they are confident based on witness statements and verification that the mother and children were seen at approx. 7 - 7:30 that morning.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130315/NEWS01/303150079


I'm trying to pay attention to the prosecutors statements and body language. From my observations, I am getting the feeling that they are leaning toward a murder suicide. I don't feel that they have eliminated the possibility of the father being involved though. It seems as though they would be able to account for him after 7:00 am at work and until he left work. Was there enough time for him to have possibly done something to the family either before or after work, I don't know. They definitely haven't cleared him. They have only stated that he has cooperated so far.

My initial thought in the beginning was murder/suicide. Now, I'm considering other possibilities.

 

[the seeker]

In the press conference at approx 4:15 in on the video Henderson states that they are confident based on witness statements and verification that the mother and children were seen at approx. 7 - 7:30 that morning.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130315/NEWS01/303150079


I'm trying to pay attention to the prosecutors statements and body language. From my observations, I am getting the feeling that they are leaning toward a murder suicide. I don't feel that they have eliminated the possibility of the father being involved though. It seems as though they would be able to account for him after 7:00 am at work and until he left work. Was there enough time for him to have possibly done something to the family either before or after work, I don't know. They definitely haven't cleared him. They have only stated that he has cooperated so far.

My initial thought in the beginning was murder/suicide. Now, I'm considering other possibilities.

Me too....because the fact that she was sooo modest in dress, doesnt mix well with the idea that she would have taken her clothes off. Unless some sort of psychosis was involved (post partum psychosis). But by all accounts she was fine and happy.

Did we ever hear what the supposed "odd and unexplainable" events were? I think thats crucial to know and also whose Bible was it?