In Retrospect-Kronk Believes He Saw Skull In August

[tx_Dot]

You are very welcome. Sometimes I can't get video (grrr, work getting in the way!) and I always feel like a doofus trying to discuss facts from videos i have not seen. At least the transcript sometimes helps those who haven't watched the tape.

And then it helps me, who can be forgetful of precisely what was said. :crazy:

Wanted to add....

Maybe you should also post your transcript in the media links....as a reference for us 'audio challenged' folks......

 

[DawnTCB]

Wanted to add....

Maybe you should also post your transcript in the media links....as a reference for us 'audio challenged' folks......

Done.

And while I was doing it I noticed a weird thing about the GMA interview that I didn't notice before... she doesn't ask him any questions at all about what he saw. I guess because this is an ongoing investigation, but it seems like she could have asked something about the time period between

1. RK and his coworker take a break
2. RK used to be a bounty hunter
3. RK calls 911.

We are sure missing a big piece of the story in THAT interview.

 

[Hot Dogs]

...RK sees a “round white item” that “doesn’t look right”. He does not say to the 911 operator what he thinks it is… a softball? Soccer ball? Easter Egg? Large rock? We have no idea where his mind was going at that time but clearly not “skull”. He wants them to come, but he can’t lie to get them there (not like CA ) so he just gives the facts. Later, when he sees the actual skull, he realizes that what he saw probably was the skull, vs. any other round and white item that might or might not have been there.

You listed round white objects which would be on the ground. Kronk never says this thing is on the ground. We can't even assume it's on the ground from his actual statement. He said he saw a white board hanging across a tree with a round white thing underneath it. That round thing could also be on the same tree.

 

[DawnTCB]

You listed round white objects which would be on the ground. Kronk never says this thing is on the ground. We can't even assume it's on the ground from his actual statement. He said he saw a white board hanging across a tree with a round white thing underneath it. That round thing could also be on the same tree.

Good point.

Just went back to listen to that 911 call again (August 11 call)

He says precious little in that conversation (which BTW I find very painful to listen to as they spend 98% of the conversation trying to figure out the cross streets and which Anthonys they are talking about...). As far as I can tell, the only thing he says (other than the overall street location which takes forever) is:

"I noticed something that looked white and there was... I don't know what it is, I'm not telling you that it's Caylee or anything of that nature." And, if this is the entire call, he does not give them any contact information for getting back in touch with him, in which case it is even weirder that he is expecting a call back...? has this call been edited?

In the second call (which has been edited) on August 12, he says:

"on the way back up I stopped in the middle there, where there's a swamp, there's a, if you're coming out, there would be a fence on the right hand side? And just open swamp area on the left hand side. I went down, eh well I had to take a (inaudible) and behind one of the trees was a (deleted) and it looked rather suspicious. I didn't touch anything. And then a little bit further up, you can tell where someone ran across it with a mower but the weeds are still real high in that area. There's a fallen tree that looks like someone had tried to cut on it at one point, but there was a white board hanging across the tree and there was something round and white underneath of it. And I don't know what it is but it just didn't look like something that should be there. "

Ok, I am curious, because I am getting ready to look at this all again.

Does RK, in any tape at all, indicate that on the first two visits (first three calls) that he went to the same side of the road where Caylee was actually found? Listen to the part at about 1:50 on the link for August 12. He describes heading to the school, the left hand side, with the fence, and then describes the OTHER side. Twice he does this, but parts have been redacted. It sounds to me like he is saying, there's the left hand side with the fence and then the OTHER side where this suspicious board/round thing combo is. Due to the redactions in this copy I can't tell for sure, but what if he was on the wrong side of the street on the first two visits? If he is using the fence as a landmark, why would he not say something like "100 yards from the fence" or "6 feet from the the fence"? What if he is using the fence as a landmark to say, that's the one side, and then on the OTHER side is what I am talking about?


Is there an uncut version available somewhere?

 

[Hot Dogs]

AFAIK: The side of the road opposite to where she was found is fenced almost entirely from Hopespring to the school entrance. The side of the road where she was found has no fence.

 

[tx_Dot]

DawnTCB....

"on the way back up I stopped in the middle there, where there's a swamp, there's a, if you're coming out, there would be a fence on the right hand side? And just open swamp area on the left hand side.

Suburban dead ends.....sounds to me like he went down, turned around.....that's why the fence is to his right.

 

[DawnTCB]

This is the crime scene aerial which is looking from the school (bottom and bottom left) down Suburban towards the "main road". The crime scene and the 6 foot tall fence is on the left side of the road in this picture.

This is looking down at the crime scene, where it appears that the remains are about 3-4 car lengths from the fence.

In the first call he says:

"on the way back out to the main road, on the left hand side, I noticed something unusual. " This is the correct location, the "fence side".

Later he says, "if you are heading TOWARDS the school, it would be on your right hand side." This is the correct location. He mentions finding a dead snake there.

(removed incorrect info)

And...
Operator: Ok so if you're going on Suburban,
RK: You're heading down towards the school...
Operator: Ok, and it's after Chickasaw on the right-hand side?
RK: Yeah, the road kind of stops, and then you go down, and there's a 6 foot high fence on the left hand side and on the right hand side is open heading towards the school and it's all swamp area on both sides. And it would be on the right hand side that I saw what I saw.

This is the correct location as well that he saw something, but he indicates that the 6 foot tall fence is on the LEFT side (opposite of where his items were).

On to call #2...

 

[DawnTCB]

AFAIK: The side of the road opposite to where she was found is fenced almost entirely from Hopespring to the school entrance. The side of the road where she was found has no fence.

Hmmm, this is interesting. Would you say that fence is "six feet tall"? I was thinking he was referring to the fence 12-15 feet away from her remains site which is clearly 6 feet tall and would have been right there in his line of sight at the scene. Is the fence on the opposite side chain link?

 

[Hot Dogs]

Is the fence on the opposite side chain link?

Near Hopespring, the fence is vine-covered (can't tell if chain link). Then further along it changes to vine-less wood.

 

[DawnTCB]

On the second call:

RK: You know where the school is down there at the bottom of Suburban?
Operator: Mmm-hmmm. (affirmative)
RK: I called this in yesterday and I don't know if this is what ya'll looked at today or not, but on the way back up I stopped in the middle there where there's a swamp, if you're coming out, there would be a fence on the right hand side, and just open swamp area on the left hand side." Ok, coming "out" or "back" from the school, the privacy fence was on the left. Does he mean the privacy fence, a few yards from the remains? If he does, he is on the wrong side of the road.
RK:I went down, eh well I had to take a (inaudible) and behind one of the trees was a (deleted) and it looked rather suspicious. I didn't touch anything. And then a little bit further up, you can tell where someone ran across it with a mower but the weeds are still real high in that area. There's a fallen tree that looks like someone had tried to cut on it at one point, but there was a white board hanging across the tree and there was something round and white underneath of it. And I don't know what it is but it just didn't look like something that should be there.

Later:
"if you're going towards the school on the left hand side..." (but he gets interrupted) the left hand side would be the incorrect side.
"But if you go down there, there's a swamp on the left-hand side and there's a fence, about a six-foot-high fence there. On the other side of the road, there is another swamp right there, and then the area -- it's all right in there." This is unclear, is he saying his items are on the right side? Not the side with the fence? Which way is he heading?

Call #3:
"I'mjust in a swampy area that's between where the Anthony's road starts and Hidden Oaks." There's no streets here, it's just swamp on either side of the road." He doesn't indicate right or left at all.

I guess I am starting to understand all the posts about when the fences were put up. If that privacy fence was there at the time, then he was probably on the wrong side of the road. If it wasn't then it seems likely he was in the right place (and the people who put up that fence were mere feet from her body when they put it up. Wow.).

The full and unedited 911 calls are supposed to come out this coming week, I am reading, because they were in the motion to compel on 1-9-09 and they have 15 days to comply. So maybe I will shelve this sleuthing aspect until those come out and we can all hear it. It still is bugging me how much he mentions the "fence side" and the "other side", the "open side", the "left hand side", the "right hand side" and yet says nothing like "40 feet back from the road" or "across a swampy puddle" or "near some pavers" . He barely mentions the white board and the white round thing, and we have no idea how far away he was standing from these items were when he sees them. Is he, and later the deputy, five feet away from these items or fifty yards? Knowing that would give me a lot more to go on now that he believes in retrospect that he saw the skull.

 

[tx_Dot]

LOL......

Maybe MR "directionally challenged"......

my hubby sure is....(but it makes for interesting road trips)......however you may never find 'anything' if you follow his directions.

 

[Hot Dogs]

I guess I am starting to understand all the posts about when the fences were put up. If that privacy fence was there at the time, then he was probably on the wrong side of the road. If it wasn't then it seems likely he was in the right place (and the people who put up that fence were mere feet from her body when they put it up. Wow.).

You must be talking about the privacy fence for the backyard of the home right next to the body. The home at the SE corner of Suburban/Hopespring. Well, attached it a satellite image of that home from April 2002. There is a fence, and its perimeter shape is the same as in the crime scene photos. I was never able to understand all those posts about a new fence being put up in relation to the TES searching. What fence and where?

 

[Hot Dogs]

LOL......

Maybe MR "directionally challenged"......

my hubby sure is....(but it makes for interesting road trips)......however you may never find 'anything' if you follow his directions.

Now put yourself into the shoes of LE who were supposed to follow Kronk's directions and useless landmarks. First he has to tell this to a dispatcher, then they have to relay it to an officer. How the hell were they supposed to find whatever he was talking about? No way. The real inspection cannot even start until somebody meets Kronk at the scene (Aug 13).

We still can't know that Kronk and the deputy were actually at the specific location of the body on Aug 13. If they weren't, then having the deputy wade out to a submerged bag would have been all for naught.

 

[DawnTCB]

You must be talking about the privacy fence for the backyard of the home right next to the body. The home at the SE corner of Suburban/Hopespring. Well, attached it a satellite image of that home from April 2002. There is a fence, and its perimeter shape is the same as in the crime scene photos. I was never able to understand all those posts about a new fence being put up in relation to the TES searching. What fence and where?

Huh. Well in this picture:

you can see the remains are REALLY close to that fence. If that was where MR was, why in the heck would he not mention that fence specifically? :waitasec: That would be a lot clearer landmark than any of the other things he used. Like, if you reach that privacy fence you've gone too far? And if he WAS referencing that 6 foot fence, then the location he was talking about was on the opposite side of the road from the fence, IOW, the wrong location.

 

[Hot Dogs]

If that was where MR was, why in the heck would he not mention that fence specifically? :waitasec: That would be a lot clearer landmark than any of the other things he used. Like, if you reach that privacy fence you've gone too far?

I agree that the privacy fence would be a sensible landmark. But I would not say "if you reach that privacy fence you've gone too far". This is because the driving officer can only approach the area from Suburban travelling east. The privacy fence is on your right, and you need to enter the woods about 40-60 feet beyond that fence.

And if he WAS referencing that 6 foot fence, then the location he was talking about was on the opposite side of the road from the fence, IOW, the wrong location.

He could not have been talking about the opposite side of the road. The fencing is continuous and there is no way to enter the woods.

 

[TxRose]

I personally think he was talking about the same side of the road as where the remains were found...only I believe he was farther down the road and not at the exact spot.

The one question I wish I had heard anyone ask him is why he felt whatever he saw should necessitate a LE officer coming out to investigate. From what I have seen...there is TONS of trash all over that wooded area. I mean LOTS of it. That is all stuff that "doesn't look like it belongs there". So how was what he saw different? What made him think he should call LE about the object he saw...and not the old tires, and other garbage and trash in the area? I guess I don't understand why he focused in one one thing...instead of just calling in and saying "hey - there is alot of trash and stuff out here - has anyone checked this area out?"

 

[DawnTCB]

He could not have been talking about the opposite side of the road. The fencing is continuous and there is no way to enter the woods.

But that is what I am pondering - was that chain link fence there when the initial calls were made?

I am still looking, but I have found this same statement which we saw a million times in December from Tim Miller :

"According to Equusearch, volunteers tried to search the area, but it was underwater. When they returned, the area was blocked by a chain-link fence."

But are we saying that there was a fence between the road and Caylee's remains sometime after the end of the first search (September), was clearly there and blocking the second search in October, and was then REMOVED by December 11th? Or is that fence that TM references on the OTHER SIDE the one that was (I am speculating) put up after September and remains standing? That makes more sense, and indicates to me that MR was using the privacy fence as a landmark (which we can see in the old aerial shots, still see today, and does not preclude entrance to the remains site in any way).

What we need to know, preferably from someone besides Equusearch, is was there a chain link fence on the opposite side of Suburban Drive on August 11-13. If yes, then what happened to mysterious fence that blocked Equusearch in November? Why on earth would someone fence that area and then un-fence it? Especially if the tax reports show the Homeowner's Association owns that land? That would be a pricey undertaking to put up and take down after, at the most, three months.

 

[Hot Dogs]

What we need to know, preferably from someone besides Equusearch, is was there a chain link fence on the opposite side of Suburban Drive on August 11-13.

I believe that St. John was there on Aug 11 (same day as Kronk). Here is the video she taped at the area. The fence that you are calling chain link (I call it vine-covered) is visible after she makes the turn from Hopespring onto Suburban.

This video show quite a bit of the fence on the opposite side.

 

[TxRose]

I believe that St. John was there on Aug 11 (same day as Kronk). Here is the video she taped at the area. The fence that you are calling chain link (I call it vine-covered) is visible after she makes the turn from Hopespring onto Suburban.

This video show quite a bit of the fence on the opposite side.

And if you watch the St. John tape, she drives down toward the school after dropping "Colleen" off. You can see the chain link fence on their left running all the way down the road. As they approach the school, they swing the camera around and you can briefly see a taller chain link fence on the right side (same side as the remains were found). You can hear them say it is a construction site and that this is the area that had been previously searched. The fence there is taller than on the left side...and probably a temporary construction fence...as opposed to the more "permanent" chain link fence on the other side.

So I think the fence that TES was referring to was this taller fence across from the school - but on the same side as where the remains were. It is not near the body because it is down at the end of the road across from the school. I believe that to be the part of the wooded area that Kiomarie said was where they hung out. JMO

 

[Hot Dogs]

So I think the fence that TES was referring to was this taller fence across from the school - but on the same side as where the remains were. It is not near the body because it is down at the end of the road across from the school. I believe that to be the part of the wooded area that Kiomarie said was where they hung out. JMO

I guess that makes sense. But it is unfortunate that this was reported on Dec 11...

According to Equusearch, volunteers tried to search the area, but it was underwater. When they returned, the area was blocked by a chain-link fence.

Because that statement is not in the context of where Caylee was found. There wasn't any fence keeping TES from finding Caylee.