In Retrospect-Kronk Believes He Saw Skull In August

[Mystic]

I don't think I could stand it, either.

I recently told a celeb friend that I wouldn't trade his fame for my privacy, for anything.

If I had found her, and the press started chasing me, I think they'd have to put me in a nice rubber room, for awhile.

BBM, I had a similar thought, finding a body as he did is a significant ordeal, add the media attention, in particularly the amount of focus of questioning his integrity and possible connection to some wrong doing... all over the news like that, having to get legal assistance. This truly changed his life in record time. I could totally have understood his having a stress leave from work from 6 mths to a year. jmo but he was placed in another position to give him some relief, yet who's to know how that added to his stress (maybe he didn't like having to change his life like that??)

I don't know if the story of his gf working in the jail is true but if it is, I highly doubt she overheard anything. Maybe together they talked of the case, his gut reaction was the body was close... out of all the strange occurences in this case... this is one I can actually consider legit. I really believe he had a strong feeling and the right circumstances to find Caylee.

 

[Phumi]

BBM, I had a similar thought, finding a body as he did is a significant ordeal, add the media attention, in particularly the amount of focus of questioning his integrity and possible connection to some wrong doing... all over the news like that, having to get legal assistance. This truly changed his life in record time. I could totally have understood his having a stress leave from work from 6 mths to a year. jmo but he was placed in another position to give him some relief, yet who's to know how that added to his stress (maybe he didn't like having to change his life like that??)

I don't know if the story of his gf working in the jail is true but if it is, I highly doubt she overheard anything. Maybe together they talked of the case, his gut reaction was the body was close... out of all the strange occurences in this case... this is one I can actually consider legit. I really believe he had a strong feeling and the right circumstances to find Caylee.

ITA with all of this. I haven't followed this thread much, so what I am about to write may well be redundant. The Anthony's have a foundation that is supposed to help when children are missing. There was a tip-line set up for people to call and the Anthonys were looking carefully at those tips. But RK who wanted to help find Caylee and called the tip-line, never got any thanks from the Anthonys for his perseverence, or his desire to help their family. Instead, the defense casts suspicion on him. With this example in mind,(your life will be turned upside down, people will doubt you, your personal life will be publicly exposed) why would any other person ever report anything in the search for a missing child? It seems to me that the Anthony's and their Foundation should come forth and THANK RK in his efforts to find Caylee. Perhaps they prefer a cash donation rather than a donation of time and concern.

 

[MissJames]

An accidental death is not a crime. Accidental death remains an option for the jury to consider. However, the jury need not determine that Caylee died from an accidental death. The jury can simply find that the circumstances of her death are not clear, which is certainly true, and also find their theire is insufficient evidence to support the State's premeditated murder charge. And based on the evidence we know of that is also true.

They would have to SPECULATE that she died accidently,since neither KC nor the defense has mentioned that.Even when CA referred to a possible accident in a jail visit with KC ,KC denied an accident.At this point accidental death is mere specualtion. I thought the jurors weren't allowed to speculate.Isn't that what you told us ,Wudge? How will they get to accidental death any other way? :waitasec:

 

[seagull65]

I know why.
Saying the body was just below the curb, and just inside the tree line, is a little bit like saying "just a little bit pregnant"
Also, what does a Minimum of water mean? 6 inches? how high is a childs prone body, especially one losing skin and blood and tissue each day that goes by?

The point is the body was not found, because we are talking about a few square feet that is in a big woods and this woods was just one woods out of many woods in the greater Orlando area, and folks were putting the search emphasis on PING AREAS remember. There was also RIVERS AND STREAMS AND LAKES and GARBAGE DUMPS and BACK YARDS and basically the entire country and even parts of Puerto Rico according to the A's for which to search for Caylee.
She was NOT IN SITE and no one was playing or hiking thru this woods especially after that stupid flooding.

ETA, what now seems like a no brainer was actually a MIRACLE that that tiny body was found and I for one and very thankful that MR. Krunk did the right thing and helped bring Caylee out of there. There are many many bodies out there that unfortunately will never be found, especially those of young children sadly enough.

But it's right around the corner, not far at all from the curb or the backyards. There wasn't flooding the whole time or even most of the time, and where she was found doesn't appear to have been a deep area anyway, probably the same level as the road? (just below curb level). Was her skull ever submerged, and by how many inches of water, I don't know. But there weren't water issues the whole time, we know that. Strange that no one in the neighborhood or their dogs, (or later any of the hundreds of searchers, protesters, curious people, media, even people with dogs, etc, who were swarming the neighborhood), found the remains if they were there.

Of course it's possible by some fluke everyone else and their dog went right by and missed the remains the entire time but K just happened to find it. And that his tips were ignored. And then when an officer came out there he couldn't see it even when K was pointing him to it and could see it. Weird but possible. And that K persisted. If that's what happened, good for him.
(Regarding K receiving any kind of reward mentioned in other posts, though, rewards should only be given for finding a person alive, for obvious reasons.)

So true about people who haven't been found. That is very tragic.

p.s. plus the added elements of the story about the snake, the fact that K's co-workers supposedly forgot all about the mention of the skull and never talked about it afterward, etc, that adds to the strangeness/unbelievability. But I can't say K's story is any stranger than KW or Casey's stories for example.

 

[Wudge]

IIRC Kronk isn't really on trial here. I think if he were you would defend him as righteously as you have Casey. Where's the even handedness?

Let's wait to see if Kronk tells the same absurd story on the witness stand

Of all the places Kronk had to relieve himself, he just happened to pick a swampy area that he personally knew to be infested with rattlesnakes. And while he's back in this rattlesnake infested swamp, he discovered Caylee's remains all by himself. Give me a break.

Did you ever ask yourself why Kronk (a former bounty hunter) didn't simply say that he went back there looking for Caylee's remains? I hold his story to be a boldfaced lie. It's not good to tell lies under oath, that's called perjury.

(My Mother did not raise me to be a fool. Thanks Mom.)

 

[Wudge]

They would have to SPECULATE that she died accidently,since neither KC nor the defense has mentioned that.Even when CA referred to a possible accident in a jail visit with KC ,KC denied an accident.At this point accidental death is mere specualtion. I thought the jurors weren't allowed to speculate.Isn't that what you told us ,Wudge? How will they get to accidental death any other way? :waitasec:

Wrong. Considering an accident to be an option is not speculation, because it is an option.

HTH

 

[Harmony 2]

But it's right around the corner, not far at all from the curb or the backyards. There wasn't flooding the whole time or even most of the time, and where she was found doesn't appear to have been a deep area anyway, probably the same level as the road? (just below curb level). Was her skull ever submerged, and by how many inches of water, I don't know. But there weren't water issues the whole time, we know that. Strange that no one in the neighborhood or their dogs, (or later any of the hundreds of searchers, protesters, curious people, media, even people with dogs, etc, who were swarming the neighborhood), found the remains if they were there.

Of course it's possible by some fluke everyone else and their dog went right by and missed the remains the entire time but K just happened to find it. And that his tips were ignored. And then when an officer came out there he couldn't see it even when K was pointing him to it and could see it. Weird but possible. And that K persisted. If that's what happened, good for him.
(Regarding K receiving any kind of reward mentioned in other posts, though, rewards should only be given for finding a person alive, for obvious reasons.)

So true about people who haven't been found. That is very tragic.

p.s. plus the added elements of the story about the snake, the fact that K's co-workers supposedly forgot all about the mention of the skull and never talked about it afterward, etc, that adds to the strangeness/unbelievability. But I can't say K's story is any stranger than KW or Casey's stories for example.

(Seagull, I am responding to your questions about the proximity of the remains to the road.)

I have not demonized Kronk. I have merely stated my gut feelings about him. I am not trying to impose those thoughts or feelings on any one. In all probability a group of jurors will react like the majority have here. I voiced my opinion to show the remote possibility that a juror may have the same hinky feelings a handful of us here had about him. I do not believe in the 'daisy chain' scenario and cannot pinpoint why I feel the way I do.

Here are some photos that show the proximity of the laundry bag and trash bags to the road.

Photos 19 and 22 show the laundry bag and trash bags. Photos 20 and 21 show proximity to the road.

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/021809remainsfoundOCSOpictures_set4/1/lg/196290.htm

Roy Kronk’s statement including a hand drawing of where he found remains
http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0305/18862974.pdf
(Note: attachment of drawing included below)

3D side view- note the first photo and consider the grassy area before treeline.

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/20318602/detail.html

 

[MissJames]

Wrong. Considering an accident to be an option is not speculation, because it is an option.

HTH

Who would have to make it an option in court? The judge,the defense?
They would have to speculate unless the defense goes there.So far they continue to throw people under the bus.Unless there is evidence of an accident and somebody testifies to it,it is till speculation.

 

[Rlaub44]

I have no idea under the sun why Kronk didn't force the officer to look in the bag. There could be a million good reasons ~ anywhere from being intimidated by police to something as mundane as not feeling well. But gosh, the officer was the one who failed here. Why try to put Kronk in a bad light with this? He had lived up to his responsibility by calling in; obviously he wasn't trying to hide his discovery. I just don't understand. . .

Thanks EU. And although I haven't read through the entire thread yet, this incident adds to my belief that RK is truthful.

Several people here have expressed suspicion that RK had some prior knowledge of the location of Caylee's remains, but if that were true, I imagine he would have been much more persistent with Officer Cain at that moment. Why allow the officer to leave without checking it out if he was absolutely certain there was something to be found?

IMO, it supports the belief that Kronk was simply calling in his sighting, and at that time, was not very confident that what he saw was really important. As time went on, he remained suspicious, and decided to check again when the conditions allowed.

Thank goodness he did.

 

[Wudge]

Who would have to make it an option in court? The judge,the defense?
They would have to speculate unless the defense goes there.So far they continue to throw people under the bus.Unless there is evidence of an accident and somebody testifies to it,it is till speculation.

Jurors are free to do it on their own. A jury is not required to decide amongst but two options; i.e., the State's claim (and charge) or the case-in-chief of the defense.

HTH

 

[cecybeans]

I hope Mark Fuhrman gives this dude a call and tells him a little bit about how the defense loves to find a scapegoat for deflection purposes and offers Roy some coping strategies for how to keep his life intact. And I hope that a FL jury sees through that trick from the first nanosecond and isn't impressed with that and other inevitable "ignoratio elenchi" irrelevance..

 

[Wudge]

I hope Mark Fuhrman gives this dude a call and tells him a little bit about how the defense loves to find a scapegoat for deflection purposes and offers Roy some coping strategies for how to keep his life intact. And I hope that a FL jury sees through that trick from the first nanosecond and isn't impressed with that and other inevitable "ignoratio elenchi" irrelevance..

So you want a felon to assist Kronk. Novel.

(chuckle)

 

[MissJames]

Jurors are free to do it on their own. A jury is not required to decide amongst but two options; i.e., the State's claim (and charge) or the case-in-chief of the defense.

HTH

Same thing,IMO.You are basically saying they are allowed to speculate that there may have been an accident. I don't believe they are.JMO
Where does Roy Kronk and his "unbelievable" story fall into this?

 

[Openmyeyes]

Just to clear up a minute detail....

Thousands of people did not search that area. That portion of Suburban dead ends into a school, so it is not heavily traveled. Search groups consisted of groups of 20 or less. Not every person in a group goes over the same area, they spread out. Known non-TES searchers were in groups of 1, 2 or 3. People going to the A's house would not intentionally go by this area.
Portions of the area were underwater during August and September.

If we were discussing Jay Blanchard Park, you might get closer to the 'thousands' number.

 

[Wudge]

Same thing,IMO.You are basically saying they are allowed to speculate that there may have been an accident. I don't believe they are.JMO
Where does Roy Kronk and his "unbelievable" story fall into this?

Believe as you will then.

As for Kronk, perjury would aid Casey. What did he know? When did he know it, and from whom did he receive information?

 

[Wudge]

Just to clear up a minute detail....

Thousands of people did not search that area. That portion of Suburban dead ends into a school, so it is not heavily traveled. Search groups consisted of groups of 20 or less. Not every person in a group goes over the same area, they spread out. Known non-TES searchers were in groups of 1, 2 or 3. People going to the A's house would not intentionally go by this area.
Portions of the area were underwater during August and September.

If we were discussing Jay Blanchard Park, you might get closer to the 'thousands' number.

Did cadaver dogs search the area?

 

[Openmyeyes]

There were 2 gals from Ohio with 2 dogs that skirted the area(self proclaimed psychics) They did not go in the area that Caylee was found and were limited in their access due to water. I do not recall dogs being with the group that went to that area with TES the weekend of the big TES search.

 

[doogiesgirl]

Hinky feelings about Kronk or not...I am so glad her body was found. That does not excuse the questions in my mind in how "In Retrospect" he thought he saw a skull in August (blocks away from the Anthony house and being aware of the search for Caylee Anthony in process) but does not insist that LE actually look at it until December...under ANY environmental conditions, why would he wait? He would have trounced right in there, despite LE's fear of water/snakes and confirmed or cleared it. C'mon folks...as much as I want Kronk to just be a hero finding the body...it just ain't adding up. Innocent of any crime, but guilty of personal motives. Which did not pan out when suspicion put him on the hot seat and his personal BS became the topic of interest. Profit potential gone. He fades away...

In my opinion it is always easy to look back AFTER FACTS ARE KNOWN and say gosh, I should have done this or I think I saw that. That rings true with me----I know this has happened to me many times. In adddition to doubting what he thinks he saw and then after she's is found he realizes he may have seen her skull after all, all those months ago...at the time, he sees the way anyone who gets involved is swallowed up by the media/public and he probably thought about his past and said to himself..."since I'm not sure, and I fear they will not wait to hear the whole story of my past and not follow through to the facts of my past, maybe I better just wait". But he calls anyway. He saw something in August, HE DOUBTED HIMSELF BUT he went ahead and called and was rebuffed or not taken seriously. Thank God!!! the way he was treated in August did not deter him from calling again in December, as it would have many many people without an upright backbone.

I think it is a sad day for us as a whole people when a person tries and tries to report a possible location for a missing child presumed dead and finally gets someone to listen to him. Child found and that person is vilified. Sorry sorry day. MOO

 

[The World According]

I believe without a doubt that Caylees remains were covered/hidden by water during searches conducted where she was found.
I also believe this pic shows the vegetation (palmettos?) with the brown leaves either covered in dry mud or dead from being underwater too long:

If the leaves were covered by water or mud, then it's safe to say Caylee prob was also.

I have a abiding admiration and respect for Mr. Miller, and his teams go in to some dangerous , ugly conditions to look for the children they are searching for. If TES says they aborted the search because of the conditions, I would take that to the bank. I think the good people of the jury will too.

The more I think about it , the more unsettling Kronk getting fired is. I think it is going to be reversed, absolutely, but wow......now we get a glimpse of why people don't come forward some times even when they witness a crime, the whole world gets turned on its head and they get treated poorly. He tried to remain private, remember?

 

[MissJames]

Thanks EU. And although I haven't read through the entire thread yet, this incident adds to my belief that RK is truthful.

Several people here have expressed suspicion that RK had some prior knowledge of the location of Caylee's remains, but if that were true, I imagine he would have been much more persistent with Officer Cain at that moment. Why allow the officer to leave without checking it out if he was absolutely certain there was something to be found?

IMO, it supports the belief that Kronk was simply calling in his sighting, and at that time, was not very confident that what he saw was really important. As time went on, he remained suspicious, and decided to check again when the conditions allowed.
Thank goodness he did.

BBM
This is what I believe happened,also. RK probably couldn't believe it really was Caylee ,but he just couldn't get it out of his mind and had to go back.
Simple as that.