GUILTY IN - Shaylyn Ammerman, 14 mos, Spencer, 23 March 2016 #2

[Inthedetails]

http://www.people.com/article/grandmother-discusses-murder-of-shaylyn-ammerman

Grandma talks

Thank you. Over the course of today, my heart has softened for the family.

JMO.

 

[Hippie Heart]

Just thinking out loud here... I often hear rape referred to as an act of violence vs a true desire to force sex upon someone. Like its a way to exert power and control.

It's hard for me to understand that reasoning, but it seems to be what studies indicate.

So my question is, does that logic apply to this type of case? He didn't just molest her, he raped and killed her. Does that mean he really felt sexual urges around her or other toddlers or was it more of a violence/control/rage issue that he committed against a defenseless baby because he had the opportunity to?

I hope this makes sense. Personally I feel he must've had a sexual attraction to babies (barf)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jinkasaurus]

Invaluable. I believe something is wrong with pedophile's brains to make them want to behave in this manner. Maybe if early intervention happened (and/or more study/research about it), we could prevent some of these tragedies.

Not to derail the thread too far, but that is the thinking in Germany. There is a lot of research being conducted through their program. Because they have established this voluntary program, they have access to people who are not yet involved in the criminal justice system. So they have an opportunity to learn about what is going on for these people before they cross that line and abuse a child.

 

[Jackeee]

I just want to step back a bit and talk about the different ways people handle grief.
When my father died, my mother turned on all of those closest to her. I am an only child so I bore the brunt of it. Accusations, nasty late night phone calls, you name it. She got rid of most of my fathers belongings immediately. She didn't ask if anyone would like anything. One time when I went to visit her I discovered that she had thrown out all of the family home movies, the black and white ones from the 1950's when I was growing up. I was devastated. Anyone here remember those? I would have given anything to have had those reels and the projector to take home and watch the movies by myself, just for the memories and to have a good cry. Everything gone, movies, photos, just gone. On occasion, the only photo of my parents that was kept on the mantle would be lying face down when I visited. I knew to tread carefully on those days.
When I read what Shaylyn's family did with her crib, and clothing, I was upset but not shocked. I've seen it before. I try not to judge them because of the way they personally come across to me.
Thank you for your time. I wanted to get away from the pedophile chat for a while, but I didn't want to leave, if that makes any sense. Actually, it doesn't. I could have just logged off.

 

[Midge Montana]

When I watched some of the family interviews, I reacted like many, if not most on here did. It is hard to not be judgemental when the life an innocent baby is involved. I also think it is human nature to look at the sum of the somewhat inappropriate appearing demeanor and chaotic environment of family members to say "of course" this was a case of familial neglect, or even suspect some kind of passive or direct family involvement.

I live in a suburb with good schools, a better than average standard of living and all of the amenities that go with that. I sometimes feel under-dressed when I go to the grocery store if I am wearing old shoes or no makeup. Nice cars and landscaped lawns are the norm in my little bubble.

However, we have a small community just a mile away. But in other ways, it is a world away. One of my sarcastic friends said it was must be where all the cast members for the "people of walmart" website move.

I am not going to lie. It is rough. A trip to the store there guarantees sightings of butt cracks, toothless grannies, dirty faced babies, cussing mommies, unsupervised kids running around, people having public arguments, beer bellies in tight wife beater t-shirts..well, you get the picture. It isn't pretty. And it isn't all about poverty. I have been poor and I never lived like that.

This is the lifestyle most of these people were born and raised in. They are raising their children and grandchildren in this setting. I have a friend that is a teacher in this community and she has her hands full because many of these parents do not have the slightest notion of how to parent their children in a positive way and education is not highly prized. That combined with the continual rotation of significant others between the caregivers, trouble with the law with different family members, and a higher than average rate of alcohol and drug use in the households is just part of what is normal in the homes of most of her students. It isn't shocking to them because this is the 'normal' for them, and their neighbors, and their relatives. It was also 'normal' for their parents and in most cases, their grandparents. Most never leave the community and the rate of unemployment and government assistance is high. I imagine their social media pages are also full of all kinds of drama.

I know most of you can identify with communities like this as well. Sometimes I think it amazing that there are not more tragic events where the children in these environments are concerned. But the truth is, most of them are resilient. It may seem like neglect and even abuse when compared with the childhood my (or yours) children had.

But I think we need to take a few steps back when taking the leap that these circumstantial and even at times, superficial, appearances imply that there is more than one real deviant, unspeakable evil person in this sad, heartbreaking tragedy in Spencer.

How these people lived and conducted themselves may not have been in the best or even healthiest manner. It may not have been the optimal nor even in the best interest of this precious baby. But I do not think it is anywhere all that different than how many, many people in this country live everyday...people who manage to raise their children and grandchildren to a ripe old age.

I just think I need to step back from being overly judgemental regarding the initial perceptions I had when viewing the odd interviews and from there making assumptions that may be very unfair and presumptuous on my part. They have lost their baby and no matter how inarticulate or unprepared and unsophisticated they may appear when dealing with the media, I am sure the full extent of their grief has not even begun to sink in.

I will add that I have recently experienced the deepest of grief myself and know firsthand that the first few weeks I was still in shock and not fully able to process what had happened. I went through the motions of life with a numbness that may have looked like a lack of emotion to a casual observer. Even now, after 6 months, I still save my outward expressions of pain for my most private moments away from anyone's eyes. I hope no one judges me for that.

Thank you. You perfectly summed up what I've been thinking but didn't know how to say. I'll admit to thinking badly about this family early on. I personally don't think they took part in what happened, directly. Hindsight is always 20/20, but even I, and I consider myself nearly a helicopter mom, can look back and see situations that could have turned out differently if evil had been in our presence.
Thank you for your compassion.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I don't really know if it means anything at this point, but I find it interesting that in the beginning the story was pretty consistent in at least the one aspect that step-dad DM was in the room drinking whisky with AA and KP and was up and checked on the baby at around 2am.

Now? He's not being mentioned at all. Just AA and KP in the room drinking & watching tv.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I don't really know if it means anything at this point, but I find it interesting that in the beginning the story was pretty consistent in at least the one aspect that step-dad DM was in the room drinking whisky with AA and KP and was up and checked on the baby at around 2am.

Now? He's not being mentioned at all. Just AA and KP in the room drinking & watching tv.

I noticed that too, and we haven't heard a peep out of him.

 

[Sillybilly]

Posts about the Crawford County, IL charges wrt a JA have been removed. The birth date does not match up ... JA is supposedly 30 y.o., so his year of birth would not be 1984.

 

[ClaireNC]

My my statement was regarding the availability of mental health treatment to prevent pedophiles from acting on their urges.

It pretty much doesn't exist. Because of mandatory reporting, very few mental health providers will knowingly treat someone who expresses attraction to children. It's too much liability.

So in turn, more kids are put in danger. I'd say that's the worse part all the way around concerning pedophiles that recognize their illness as an illness. They are left to their own devices to keep it at bay. It's not fair to anybody, not them and not their potential victims.

Something needs to change so that treatment is available. It won't make a huge impact statistically, but any incident prevented is a victory.

Interesting, I'm not sure it is true that "very few mental health providers will knowingly treat someone who expresses attraction to children because of the liability." I know that specialized training is required but I don't think it's a liability issue. Do you have any links where I can learn more?

I found this: http://www.stopitnow.org/help-guidance/faqs/faqs-on-sex-offender-treatment

 

[LaborDayRN]

I just want to step back a bit and talk about the different ways people handle grief.
When my father died, my mother turned on all of those closest to her. I am an only child so I bore the brunt of it. Accusations, nasty late night phone calls, you name it. She got rid of most of my fathers belongings immediately. She didn't ask if anyone would like anything. One time when I went to visit her I discovered that she had thrown out all of the family home movies, the black and white ones from the 1950's when I was growing up. I was devastated. Anyone here remember those? I would have given anything to have had those reels and the projector to take home and watch the movies by myself, just for the memories and to have a good cry. Everything gone, movies, photos, just gone. On occasion, the only photo of my parents that was kept on the mantle would be lying face down when I visited. I knew to tread carefully on those days.
When I read what Shaylyn's family did with her crib, and clothing, I was upset but not shocked. I've seen it before. I try not to judge them because of the way they personally come across to me.
Thank you for your time. I wanted to get away from the pedophile chat for a while, but I didn't want to leave, if that makes any sense. Actually, it doesn't. I could have just logged off.

Jackeee, that must have been unbelievably difficult for you. Not only the loss of your father but dealing with your mothers emotions. The loss of your family home movies must have been especially painful.

 

[jnblsm]

I don't really know if it means anything at this point, but I find it interesting that in the beginning the story was pretty consistent in at least the one aspect that step-dad DM was in the room drinking whisky with AA and KP and was up and checked on the baby at around 2am.

Now? He's not being mentioned at all. Just AA and KP in the room drinking & watching tv.

Yup! As usual, we're on the same page, OM

 

[iluvmua]

Am I hearing things, or was kyle some sort of babysitter for kids?

 

[mrsobrien]

Am I hearing things, or was kyle some sort of babysitter for kids?

I've not read anything about him being a professional babysitter, but he was due to pick up someone's 5 year old the day after Shaylyn. Thank god KP didn't show.

 

[MsMarple]

Here's a long article with a little more background info on Kyle. It sounds like he has an ongoing problem with alcohol:

Owen County Court records show Parker pleaded guilty to criminal trespass and possession of marijuana in August 2014, got a suspended one-year jail term and was ordered to inpatient substance abuse treatment. Two months later, he was charged with possession of synthetic marijuana and a pipe and his probation was revoked. He also had not paid more than $1,000 in court-related costs and had not gotten inpatient treatment for his alcoholism.

In November 2014, he wrote Quillen a letter asking to be released in time for the holidays. He said his grandfather was dying from brain cancer: “This Thanksgiving and Christmas will be the last time the family and I will be able to spend with him.” He was released that Dec. 12, still owing the county 60 hours of community service work.

On Jan. 10, 2015, he entered a residential sober living program in Terre Haute, but was booted out a week later for reportedly drinking. “He has two weeks to think about his decision to drink and where his life is going,” program director David Mankin wrote. On April 14, Parker was back in jail to serve 50 days from his probation revocation.

In November, he was sentenced to serve 111 days in jail for violating his probation after a drunken incident in Ellettsville, and was released earlier this month. He has a court date in that case set for April 13 to review how he will repay the county for unpaid fees totaling $1,283, court records show.

http://www.reporter-times.com/it-s-...cle_84aeb2af-7ed6-547e-8786-21d63afe4b62.html

ETA: How then did Kyle spend New Year's with Adam?

Adam Ammerman said he knew Parker through a mutual friend, and had known him for just shy of a year. Parker had been at the home to celebrate New Year’s Eve just months prior.

http://www.spencereveningworld.com/...arged_With_Murder_Rape_In_Connection_Wit.html

I wish msm would just release the Probable Cause document so we can see for ourselves .

 

[jnblsm]

Am I hearing things, or was kyle some sort of babysitter for kids?

I think the general consensus, both here on WS, and some SM sites we've all seen, is Kyle was perceived to be a good guy, trusted with kids, because he was so great with them. He was allegedly in charge of picking up another child later in the day. Not sure if that was a common occurrence, or was a one time deal though.

 

[Hoosgirl]

Only getting a 404 error code!

Are you on tapatalk? I get those with people links and have to just go to my browser and search for it.

 

[Eileen730]

I don't really know if it means anything at this point, but I find it interesting that in the beginning the story was pretty consistent in at least the one aspect that step-dad DM was in the room drinking whisky with AA and KP and was up and checked on the baby at around 2am.

Now? He's not being mentioned at all. Just AA and KP in the room drinking & watching tv.

Yes now he says he didnt feel like drinking and went to bed. No excuses. He dosent want to get neglect charges. This poor child.. no excuses for her family. They were supposed to protect her.
They didnt!!!!
Jmvoo.

 

[jnblsm]

Are you on tapatalk? I get those with people links and have to just go to my browser and search for it.

I am on tapatalk. I ended up using Google

 

[Jackeee]

Jackeee, that must have been unbelievably difficult for you. Not only the loss of your father but dealing with your mothers emotions. The loss of your family home movies must have been especially painful.

I hope that someone took videos of Shaylyn and kept them. At some point when all the madness has lessened, I hope they will look back fondly on seeing her little face.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Yes now he says he didnt feel like drinking and went to bed. No excuses. He dosent want to get neglect charges. This poor child.. no excuses for her family. They were supposed to protect her.
They didnt!!!!
Jmvoo.

DM is Justin's and Adam's stepfather.