GUILTY IN - Shaylyn Ammerman, 14 mos, Spencer, 23 March 2016 #2

[Inthedetails]

I don't know where I first heard it. I just googled it. Oh my! Sorry. Lol. I picked it up from a UK show. Besotted, blotto, blind drunk, smashed. Squiffy still sounds good though. Lol.

Oops, lol! Our use of the word squiffy went squiffy.

 

[Jackeee]

Oops, lol! Our use of the word squiffy went squiffy.

I feel a hangover coming on.

 

[J4cknsal1y]

The father , Justin, said in an interview that he learned about her body being found, by seeing it on the tv news. I am not sure if I believe him about that though.

I saw that, too, but I'm not sure I believe it either. My 1st thought is: consider the source, fwiw. 2nd is, does anyone else following the Nicole Lovell case recall her dad said he found out about Nicole's body being found via the news? But yet a fellow sleuther(s) found him posting they had found Nicole via his Facebook page, & the timestamps was earlier than the 1st press conference/news release releasing that her body was found, that he claims he found out through that. I think NL's dad is quite different from Shaylyn's, but I do have to wonder why these 2 dads both claimed they heard of their daughters bodies being found via the news, when the more relatable of the 2 (IMO) seems to be being 'less than truthful' about that, & both took to SM with the news.
Kind of a random thought, but bothers me
somehow.

 

[helenlouise426]

Squiffy? I'm totally stealing this word.

Me too

 

[Jackeee]

Me too

I just googled squiffy. It sounded so innocent on uk shows. Sorry. Back to lurking. Do not pass go. Do not......

 

[DexterMorgan]

Oh, this helps.

"And what are the good people of our region doing to support him [the father]? Hundreds of them have gone to his Facebook page to post deplorable comments.

Let me give you a sampling:..."

http://www.indystar.com/story/opini...-shaylyns-father-tormented-facebook/82390442/

Wow. I hope he knows that he can turn off the public commenting feature on his Facebook or simply delete his Facebook all together.

Who in the heck would want that bashing on their own Facebook page by people that don't even know them.

I truly think that KP knew this entire family was not all mentally there. Jmo.

 

[kaen]

I just want to step back a bit and talk about the different ways people handle grief.
When my father died, my mother turned on all of those closest to her. I am an only child so I bore the brunt of it. Accusations, nasty late night phone calls, you name it. She got rid of most of my fathers belongings immediately. She didn't ask if anyone would like anything. One time when I went to visit her I discovered that she had thrown out all of the family home movies, the black and white ones from the 1950's when I was growing up. I was devastated. Anyone here remember those? I would have given anything to have had those reels and the projector to take home and watch the movies by myself, just for the memories and to have a good cry. Everything gone, movies, photos, just gone. On occasion, the only photo of my parents that was kept on the mantle would be lying face down when I visited. I knew to tread carefully on those days.

My father did the same thing only it was when my mother needed to be moved to a nursing home. Everything gone. I had siblings and we were all devastated. His response was that he had asked us one time what we wanted and when we didn't move to take it (none of us thought it was so urgent) he had the stuff removed. Of course, he kept things that had no sentimental value whatsoever!

 

[J4cknsal1y]

If anyone can find this via link, I'd be much obliged. I'm at work, not much time to sleuth.

From post #103 on the 1st thread (posted by kimbella)

From live fox59 facebook reporter:
Dad and dad's brother were taken to Indianapolis today for lie detector tests.
According to dad's mom, she has not heard from him yet.
Neighbors say they heard an argument at the house around 3am.

no link at that post but I am going to check some more.

eta here is a link that if you scroll down the article a bit it has an interview with a blonde neighbor woman. It's captioned saying she heard a loud party at 3am, but I also could swear initially this is where the 3am fight was mentioned--I could be wrong. Also think this lady is the one who said something was fishy about dad/family.
http://www.wthr.com/story/31550000/police-in-spencer-looking-for-missing-toddler

 

[DetroitLives]

The same guy who grandma found holding Shaylyn in his lap when he was drunk, according to Adam.

Sorry to keep repeating that. I only blame the rapist and murderer for the crimes committed....but geez.

JMO.

I do think that that is such a vague statement. There has to be more to the story. Was everyone around drinking and he was holding her? Was he doing or saying something odd when holding her? Was it normal for him to hold her and he just happened to be drunk? Seems like it isn't as abnormal as we may think in this particular household. What does it mean she found him holding her while drunk? Now knowing what we know, it's obvious he is a monster, but would someone holding a baby while drunk in this house raise red flags at the time? Probably not, IMO.

And I say this with all the hatred in the world against alcohol, but most people don't see it the way I do.

 

[DetroitLives]

I just want to step back a bit and talk about the different ways people handle grief.
When my father died, my mother turned on all of those closest to her. I am an only child so I bore the brunt of it. Accusations, nasty late night phone calls, you name it. She got rid of most of my fathers belongings immediately. She didn't ask if anyone would like anything. One time when I went to visit her I discovered that she had thrown out all of the family home movies, the black and white ones from the 1950's when I was growing up. I was devastated. Anyone here remember those? I would have given anything to have had those reels and the projector to take home and watch the movies by myself, just for the memories and to have a good cry. Everything gone, movies, photos, just gone. On occasion, the only photo of my parents that was kept on the mantle would be lying face down when I visited. I knew to tread carefully on those days.
When I read what Shaylyn's family did with her crib, and clothing, I was upset but not shocked. I've seen it before. I try not to judge them because of the way they personally come across to me.
Thank you for your time. I wanted to get away from the pedophile chat for a while, but I didn't want to leave, if that makes any sense. Actually, it doesn't. I could have just logged off.

Off topic, but my heart aches for you. Both of my parents are dead, my dad at 12 and my mom when I was 22. I am an only child and I am so happy she kept everything for me (even a diaper from my first diaper pack, and his clothes he passed away in.) I'm so very sorry for your loss. All the love to you.

I can't explain why they would have destroyed that crib, but I can't understand a lot of what this family does and says. I just have to hope it's a part of their own grief.

 

[Embley]

I do think that that is such a vague statement. There has to be more to the story. Was everyone around drinking and he was holding her? Was he doing or saying something odd when holding her? Was it normal for him to hold her and he just happened to be drunk? Seems like it isn't as abnormal as we may think in this particular household. What does it mean she found him holding her while drunk? Now knowing what we know, it's obvious he is a monster, but would someone holding a baby while drunk in this house raise red flags at the time? Probably not, IMO.

And I say this with all the hatred in the world against alcohol, but most people don't see it the way I do.

I'd hate for people to stop trusting young men (or men in general) around their children due to this and similar incidents. My husband loves kids (we do plan to have a couple in the near future), and he is also a photographer, he is constantly paranoid about what parents will think. So he avoids being around children that aren't family, even though he's absolutely wonderful with kids (and would never hurt anyone, especially a child)! I just think it's such a shame that he has to worry about this, and it's because of the actions of people like KP that he feels that way!

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I'm going to have to disagree. I wouldn't automatically think they people have some sort of mental health issues. Not a legitimate one, anyway. <modsnip>

Many times on this forum I have seen people who assume criminals/POI have a delay or disability. "Oh they must have a mental delay or disability" because they are "slow" or whatever. As someone with a son with delays, I find it highly offensive.



They end up as strong adults.

Or dead.
Or they repeat their parents' mistakes.

I'm sorry for offending you.

 

[mrsobrien]

I'd hate for people to stop trusting young men (or men in general) around their children due to this and similar incidents. My husband loves kids (we do plan to have a couple in the near future), and he is also a photographer, he is constantly paranoid about what parents will think. So he avoids being around children that aren't family, even though he's absolutely wonderful with kids (and would never hurt anyone, especially a child)! I just think it's such a shame that he has to worry about this, and it's because of the actions of people like KP that he feels that way!

But then there's the female relatives/nannies or whatever that hurt children too. There's a balance that must be reached, imo, when it comes to these matters. :-/

 

[Embley]

But then there's the female relatives/nannies or whatever that hurt children too. There's a balance that must be reached, imo, when it comes to these matters. :-/

Exactly! That's my argument! But I feel like, at least where we live, people generally don't trust men, more than women, with their children!

I think women murder more than we think, especially particularly vulnerable people like children and the elderly, but that their chosen forms of killing are often more undetectable and often look like natural causes. I just feel that women can be equally as scary when it comes to their ability to hurt children (or people in general), but that the majority of society doesn't perceive it that way (again, from my own experience of where I live).

And I always fear that crimes like this will take us back to the "stranger danger" days, (even though WE know it's not usually strangers that commit these crimes).

 

[Midge Montana]

From post #103 on the 1st thread (posted by kimbella)



no link at that post but I am going to check some more.

eta here is a link that if you scroll down the article a bit it has an interview with a blonde neighbor woman. It's captioned saying she heard a loud party at 3am, but I also could swear initially this is where the 3am fight was mentioned--I could be wrong. Also think this lady is the one who said something was fishy about dad/family.
http://www.wthr.com/story/31550000/police-in-spencer-looking-for-missing-toddler

Yes!!!
I'm so glad someone else remembers footage of the other neighbor talking about the argument. I was beginning to think I'd lost my marbles. I tried all day to find it but cannot. I can't imagine why they'd pull that, but maybe they did?
Thanks for backing me up!

 

[jnblsm]

As much as this bothers me to type this post, I've been holding it in ever since the news of Shaylynn crossed my feed:
I usually follow cases based on proximity to where I've lived, been, etc. I have several relatives that are from, and still live in Spencer, Indiana. Again, people related to me. Blood.
I remember figuring it out early on that visiting those relatives was quite different than visiting others in other counties, cities, and states. There always seemed to be a disconnect in some of our "Spencer cousins" and I could never put my finger on why.
Imo, that general area is really laid back. The socio-economic status is a bit lower than I'd been accustomed to-not all of Owen County, I'm speaking of my experience as a younger child, with my cousins.
Watching the interviews of the Ammerman family reminds me so much of visiting there. Not the cleanest of people, but not filthy. More like unkempt and not tidy/organized. Lots of good food-casseroles, jello salad, desserts-things that could feed a lot of ppl for not a lot of money.
Lots of love.
But a certain lack of concern for where we kids were, or what we were doing. I have a faint memory of being embarrassed that my parents restricted my sister and me from hanging with our cousins sometimes.
Anyway, that's been gnawing at me since this all started. I guess my point is that I have distant cousins that remind me a lot of the A family. In fact, I ended up on TM's FB profile, and we have 3 mutual friends.
The "Spencer cousins" just seemed different to me when I was little. Not bad people, just hit with some harder times and had a different life-style.

 

[DexterMorgan]

As much as this bothers me to type this post, I've been holding it in ever since the news of Shaylynn crossed my feed:
I usually follow cases based on proximity to where I've lived, been, etc. I have several relatives that are from, and still live in Spencer, Indiana. Again, people related to me. Blood.
I remember figuring it out early on that visiting those relatives was quite different than visiting others in other counties, cities, and states. There always seemed to be a disconnect in some of our "Spencer cousins" and I could never put my finger on why.
Imo, that general area is really laid back. The socio-economic status is a bit lower than I'd been accustomed to-not all of Owen County, I'm speaking of my experience as a younger child, with my cousins.
Watching the interviews of the Ammerman family reminds me so much of visiting there. Not the cleanest of people, but not filthy. More like unkempt and not tidy/organized. Lots of good food-casseroles, jello salad, desserts-things that could feed a lot of ppl for not a lot of money.
Lots of love.
But a certain lack of concern for where we kids were, or what we were doing. I have a faint memory of being embarrassed that my parents restricted my sister and me from hanging with our cousins sometimes.
Anyway, that's been gnawing at me since this all started. I guess my point is that I have distant cousins that remind me a lot of the A family. In fact, I ended up on TM's FB profile, and we have 3 mutual friends.
The "Spencer cousins" just seemed different to me when I was little. Not bad people, just hit with some harder times and had a different life-style.

Totally agree. There are different mind sets throughout everywhere that may not be considered the norm to most. These areas can range from Southside Chicago to the middle of nowhere.

Some environments can produce different thinking structures in certain individuals.

 

[Jackeee]

My father did the same thing only it was when my mother needed to be moved to a nursing home. Everything gone. I had siblings and we were all devastated. His response was that he had asked us one time what we wanted and when we didn't move to take it (none of us thought it was so urgent) he had the stuff removed. Of course, he kept things that had no sentimental value whatsoever!

I'm so sorry kaen. I have become cognizant of what I believe would be important to my children and I hope I'm right, since they think it will never happen. Money and possessions do strange things to people.

 

[MBK]

I do think that that is such a vague statement. There has to be more to the story. Was everyone around drinking and he was holding her? Was he doing or saying something odd when holding her? Was it normal for him to hold her and he just happened to be drunk? Seems like it isn't as abnormal as we may think in this particular household. What does it mean she found him holding her while drunk? Now knowing what we know, it's obvious he is a monster, but would someone holding a baby while drunk in this house raise red flags at the time? Probably not, IMO.

And I say this with all the hatred in the world against alcohol, but most people don't see it the way I do.

Didn't one of the brothers say that Kyle liked to get naked when he was drunk? Let's pray that he wasn't naked. I just wonder if Shaylyn's death wasn't the first time that . . .
Anyway, it's a little late for "shouldas", but if he had been thrown out of that house, never to return at that point, the unimaginable horror of Shaylyn's death would not have occurred. I don't know what GMA thought at that point, but if you have the gut feeling something's "off", go with that feeling.

 

[Trident]

Didn't one of the brothers say that Kyle liked to get naked when he was drunk? Let's pray that he wasn't naked. I just wonder if Shaylyn's death wasn't the first time that . . .
Anyway, it's a little late for "shouldas", but if he had been thrown out of that house, never to return at that point, the unimaginable horror of Shaylyn's death would not have occurred. I don't know what GMA thought at that point, but if you have the gut feeling something's "off", go with that feeling.

Would'a, should'a, could'a. Hindsight is so perfect in a way real life isn't. To me, these people ARE strange, and I've been among many strange/off the grid types. <modsnip>
My opinion only