GUILTY IN - Shaylyn Ammerman, 14 mos, Spencer, 23 March 2016 #2

[ninij9]

Which is sure a far cry from this glowing character reference:

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/ne...cle_c70a95a2-f1d1-11e5-aa09-8b32ae4d2e7d.html

Of course there's nothing to indicate cartoon day and drunk day were the SAME day, but there was NEVER any mention of the drunk/rocking of the baby until after the gory details came out. In fact, in a LOT of the earlier articles grandma had nothing but kind things to say about Parker and repeatedly told the same story about him being helpful and rocking Shaylyn to sleep, playing with her, etc.

I do believe Parker had groomed this whole family for unfettered access to this sweet baby.

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[ILOKAL]

Good point. It's incredibly hard to determine accuracy in this case.

I personally think it happened and that it didn't raise a red flag for Grandma like it does to most of us here. Trying to figure out why it didn't raise a flag would spiral us into a never-ending discussion, imo. (I'm on the fence whether it raised a red flag for Uncle, to be honest.)

It happened. It didn't cause concern. It was allowed to happen again in a hugely tragic way.

I'm honestly not sure just what red flag that should have raised? Many young people drink, do they not? At age 22, is that unusual? Did Uncle Louie, Aunt Mary, and Cousin Irving ever pick up and hold your baby at a gathering after having had a few? Did you ever allow them around your baby again, or did that raise red flags that told you they were dangerous people?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

We don't know the context of this event though, do we? Was it the middle of the night? The afternoon? Was KP falling over drunk? Just a little tipsy? Maybe KP was over and there was drinking. JA went to the bathroom, Shaylyn started crying and KP picked her up to rock her until dad got back? Knowing what we now know, yeah, it looks like a huge warning sign. But without knowing more about what grandma actually walked in on, I can't condemn her too much for not seeing it as a warning sign. To her, it may very well have looked like a guy who's great with kids helping settle down a baby while dad was fixing the antenna...

It is hard to put it all into context.

We also know that pedophiles come across as unassuming, friendly, and they want to gain the trust of the adult/s who has the child or children they are plotting to prey upon. It seems to me he wanted all of them to think he was just a guy who really liked children in general.

And there are millions of men who do like/love little children who have no sinister ulterior motives whatsoever but are just compassionate caring men who love children just like women do even if they aren't kin to the child or children.

That is why so many pedophiles target single women to have a relationship with who have young children living in their home. The first thing they do is gain the trust of the mother so she will let her guard down believing he genuinely cares about her children's wellbeing, when all he is doing is setting it up/grooming her, and the children when his intentions all along is to harm the children sexually.

 

[jpo74]

i know father's side of family is off, but im thinking mental illness is why they (JA, AA and to a degree, mom) act so strange. They function in society, but are a little "slow". I do, however, think they are trying to cover their butts a bit, but i dont think they would hurt Shaylyn, not the dad. im just :stormingmad:that the uncle, if he did see a leg, didnt go after KP. that little baby would still be alive

 

[Ontario Mom]

I'm honestly not sure just what red flag that should have raised? Many young people drink, do they not? At age 22, is that unusual? Did Uncle Louie, Aunt Mary, and Cousin Irving ever pick up and hold your baby at a gathering after having had a few? Did you ever allow them around your baby again, or did that raise red flags that told you they were dangerous people?

I have 7 kids. Not once in their lifetime did a drunk person ever hold them as a baby. EVER. I never had my kids in a situation where drunk people could pick them up or hold them. Drunk people can't even hold themselves, they sure as heck aren't going to lay a hand on my kid.

I'm sure it happens, but I'm also sure there are lots of moms like me that would have never allowed it.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thanks for your perspective. I can see that way as well. Sigh, I don't want to let my opinion of these people color my thinking. I was actually appalled at the posters on the Father's FB page. I think it was sad. Personally getting a vibe that dad is uninvolved (although negligent, along with grandma), but the uncle I believe is in it up to his hairy ears. Jmo of course.

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We all have different perspectives about the same event and that is one of the many reasons it makes WS a very interesting place to come and discuss cases like this.

I believe the reason they destroyed Shaylyn's crib was because they knew she was taken from that crib, and it was a constant reminder of what had happened to her, and that she would never be back to be put in the crib ever again. I do believe they could have gotten some type of release from all the pent up anger they felt by pulverizing the crib.

But that's just my own perspective on the demolishing of the crib. Its really hard to get into the mind of someone we don't even know though.

 

[birdsmomma]

I'm having a hard time with AA saying he saw a dangling foot.

As a person with bad eye sight, if I don't have my contacts in, I cannot see the TV from my bed, let alone someone outside in the dark. I mean, I would be able to see a person but not a foot from a baby they were holding if they had their back to me. Also, this was at 3am when it is still pretty dark.

I would assume that AA wears glasses all of the time since all the interviews I've seen, he has them on.

All of this just seems really odd to me. MOO

 

[jpo74]

Did someone say they were watching *advertiser censored* THAT NIGHT? Or just commenting on K's PREFERENCES in *advertiser censored*, when he DID watch?

i dont think that has been proven. i think a poster said they may have been watching *advertiser censored*, but it hasnt been stated as fact that i know of.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have 7 kids. Not once in their lifetime did a drunk person ever hold them as a baby. EVER. I never had my kids in a situation where drunk people could pick them up or hold them. Drunk people can't even hold themselves, they sure as heck aren't going to lay a hand on my kid.

I'm sure it happens, but I'm also sure there are lots of moms like me that would have never allowed it.

I am one who wouldn't have ever allowed a drunk, man or wowan, to pick them up and hold my children. However; I didn't drink, and neither did my friends when my children were young so that was never a situation I had to deal with.

However; many people do drink that have little children and having cookouts/ get togethers or whatever is quite common. Even the parents who are drinking are picking up their children too which I don't think is a good idea either if the parent is also drunk. So since this family did seem to drink they may have thought nothing about anyone picking up Shaylyn while drinking.

All five of our children are grown and we now have grandchildren and great grandchildren. We have never drank when we have our grands and are keeping them. In fact my husband and I may drink once or twice a year and its when we are out and about by ourselves.

But like I said, not every parent is the same nor parents the same. I do know some who do drink occasionally and their children are always very well cared for and they never drink to excess either.

 

[ILOKAL]

I have 7 kids. Not once in their lifetime did a drunk person ever hold them as a baby. EVER. I never had my kids in a situation where drunk people could pick them up or hold them. Drunk people can't even hold themselves, they sure as heck aren't going to lay a hand on my kid.

I'm sure it happens, but I'm also sure there are lots of moms like me that would have never allowed it.

This scenario doesn't say you allowed someone who had been drinking hold your child. I picture a gathering at home where you are the hostess. You know, the kinds of gathering most families/friends have on a regular basis. Auntie Mary picks up your child and sits down to rock him while you're hostessing?

Then again, good for you if such a situation NEVER happened!

 

[LisaB]

I read that to mean that he didn't expect any additional arrest that day, the day of his statement. I'm feel confident that LE will announce when there are no longer any other POI's and as I said before, I really hope Shaylyn's entire family is cleared.

This was not the original article. I never found that one. This was as close as I could find, but the other said they do not expect additional arrests going forward.

 

[pepelepolecat]

These statistics are so sad, as a parent scare the living day lights out of me. You never know who is lurking around waiting for their opportunity to strike. I really hope that parents in general will start taking even more notice in who their children are around. We have to protect our babies!!!

Barring wrapping your child in bubble wrap and securing him or her in a padded room for life, you simply cannot protect him or her from all would-be monsters. But what you CAN do is raise a child who is not easy prey for predators. (Please know that I'm not saying any of this would have helped Shaylyn. She was a small baby who was vulnerable simply by virtue of her age.)

1. Talk to your kid and make sure that you're your kid's safe space. Listen to them. Listen more than you talk.
2. Get to know their friends and who they're around all day.
3. Talk to them about being safe online and about potential risks.
4. Teach them about healthy boundaries even as babies and toddlers (ask permission for kisses and hugs! Listen and respect their "nos." If they don't want to be tickled, don't keep tickling them. If they don't want to kiss grandma goodbye, don't force them.)
5. Teach them the right names for their body parts.
6. Let your kid know you'll always be available to listen and that they will not get in trouble when they need to talk.
7. PAY ATTENTION to any new people, new behaviors, new attitudes, new anything in your kids' life.

And please know that I'm also not saying that victims of predators in any way deserve what is being done or that parents are responsible in any way. But some "tried-and-true" parenting practices of the past, like expecting kids to be seen and not heard or "instant obedience" or unquestioned respect for elders, have been co-opted by predators and used for their own nefarious purposes.

So think Ransom of Red Chief. And raise that kid.

 

[MsMarple]

I'm honestly not sure just what red flag that should have raised? Many young people drink, do they not? At age 22, is that unusual? Did Uncle Louie, Aunt Mary, and Cousin Irving ever pick up and hold your baby at a gathering after having had a few? Did you ever allow them around your baby again, or did that raise red flags that told you they were dangerous people?

I agree that many young people drink, but not many are court-ordered into rehab for drugs and alcohol twice in two years. And Kyle isn't an uncle, aunt or cousin; according to Adam he was a "friend of a friend" so not close to the family at all. In the telephone interview Justin said he didn't even know Kyle's last name.

Adam said he's known Kyle for a little less than a year. Here's what Kyle's been doing during that time:

On Jan. 10, 2015, he entered a residential sober living program in Terre Haute, but was booted out a week later for reportedly drinking. “He has two weeks to think about his decision to drink and where his life is going,” program director David Mankin wrote. On April 14, Parker was back in jail to serve 50 days from his probation revocation.

In November, he was sentenced to serve 111 days in jail for violating his probation after a drunken incident in Ellettsville, and was released earlier this month. He has a court date in that case set for April 13 to review how he will repay the county for unpaid fees totaling $1,283, court records show.

http://www.reporter-times.com/it-s-...cle_84aeb2af-7ed6-547e-8786-21d63afe4b62.html

IMO that is a red flag. He even posted about the upcoming court date on his FB so Adam had to be aware of his problems with the law. And alcohol.

I would have no problem banning such a person from my home. At the very least I would ban them when my 14-month-old child was staying in the home. JMO.

 

[LisaB]

I know it wasn't the same day. That's the point.

The family knew PRIOR to that night that Kyle held the child on his lap while he was drunk. Maybe some people see nothing wrong with a drunk acquaintance holding your infant family member, but I wouldn't like it...and I would make sure not to leave that child unattended around him.

But, even though they had some hints about him, I blame no one but him for the crime, while at the same time wishing they had been more careful in their childcare.

My parents were huge drunks. When my sister was about 3 or 4, my dad had her on his shoulders and dropped her onto a parking lot, breaking her arm. This was in the late 1960s, and nobody made a big deal of it. I am still pretty horrified about it, but because he was allowed to continue to hold her, care for her, and parent her, in spite of this, and was not accused of anything improper, I have a harder time seeing why sitting in a chair holding a child after consuming alcohol is a big deal. If seated, the chance of dropping the child and injuring it seems minor, and "drunk" can be open to interpretation. Was he just a little "tipsy" or was he sitting because he was incapable of standing?

 

[LisaB]

Which is sure a far cry from this glowing character reference:

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/ne...cle_c70a95a2-f1d1-11e5-aa09-8b32ae4d2e7d.html

Of course there's nothing to indicate cartoon day and drunk day were the SAME day, but there was NEVER any mention of the drunk/rocking of the baby until after the gory details came out. In fact, in a LOT of the earlier articles grandma had nothing but kind things to say about Parker and repeatedly told the same story about him being helpful and rocking Shaylyn to sleep, playing with her, etc.

In the beginning, the Dad said he was a good friend of the family, and later he said he knew nothing about the guy, didn't really know him at all.

 

[gliving]

I agree that many young people drink, but not many are court-ordered into rehab for drugs and alcohol twice in two years. And Kyle isn't an uncle, aunt or cousin; according to Adam he was a "friend of a friend" so not close to the family at all. In the telephone interview Justin said he didn't even know Kyle's last name.

Adam said he's known Kyle for a little less than a year. Here's what Kyle's been doing during that time:

On Jan. 10, 2015, he entered a residential sober living program in Terre Haute, but was booted out a week later for reportedly drinking. “He has two weeks to think about his decision to drink and where his life is going,” program director David Mankin wrote. On April 14, Parker was back in jail to serve 50 days from his probation revocation.

In November, he was sentenced to serve 111 days in jail for violating his probation after a drunken incident in Ellettsville, and was released earlier this month. He has a court date in that case set for April 13 to review how he will repay the county for unpaid fees totaling $1,283, court records show.

http://www.reporter-times.com/it-s-...cle_84aeb2af-7ed6-547e-8786-21d63afe4b62.html

IMO that is a red flag. He even posted about the upcoming court date on his FB so Adam had to be aware of his problems with the law. And alcohol.

I would have no problem banning such a person from my home. At the very least I would ban them when my 14-month-old child was staying in the home. JMO.

And after all this, Kyle's own family allowed him to babysit their children.

 

[LisaB]

We don't know the context of this event though, do we? Was it the middle of the night? The afternoon? Was KP falling over drunk? Just a little tipsy? Maybe KP was over and there was drinking. JA went to the bathroom, Shaylyn started crying and KP picked her up to rock her until dad got back? Knowing what we now know, yeah, it looks like a huge warning sign. But without knowing more about what grandma actually walked in on, I can't condemn her too much for not seeing it as a warning sign. To her, it may very well have looked like a guy who's great with kids helping settle down a baby while dad was fixing the antenna...

This was supposed to have happened on a prior occasion.
The step-grand-dad "fixing the antenna" was the night she disappeared.

 

[pepelepolecat]

I'm honestly not sure just what red flag that should have raised? Many young people drink, do they not? At age 22, is that unusual? Did Uncle Louie, Aunt Mary, and Cousin Irving ever pick up and hold your baby at a gathering after having had a few? Did you ever allow them around your baby again, or did that raise red flags that told you they were dangerous people?

I may not be typical, but no, I would not be okay with Uncle Louie or Aunt Mary picking up any of my babies or toddlers while intoxicated or after having a few. I don't like alcohol around my kids, period. Red flags for pedophilia? No. Red flags for lack of sense? Yes. Because people who have had a few are not so great at not dropping things. Like babies.

But I also come from a family that really doesn't partake of alcohol at all, so it wouldn't be an issue in the first place.

 

[LisaB]

It is hard to put it all into context.

We also know that pedophiles come across as unassuming, friendly, and they want to gain the trust of the adult/s who has the child or children they are plotting to prey upon. It seems to me he wanted all of them to think he was just a guy who really liked children in general.

(snip)

That is why so many pedophiles target single women to have a relationship with who have young children living in their home. The first thing they do is gain the trust of the mother so she will let her guard down believing he genuinely cares about her children's wellbeing, when all he is doing is setting it up/grooming her, and the children when his intentions all along is to harm the children sexually.

Been there. Done that. It made me feel a little sick inside to read this, since it happened to us, although he killed only my daughter's spirit..

 

[LisaB]

i dont think that has been proven. i think a poster said they may have been watching *advertiser censored*, but it hasnt been stated as fact that i know of.

I don't "get" men. The idea of guys watching *advertiser censored* with other guys is a bit weird for me, and the idea of watching *advertiser censored* with one's STEPFATHER is even creepier.